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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: Citizen Smith on Wednesday 06 September 06 11:31 BST (UK)
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Hi. Any help appreciated as I'm stuck on some Irish rellies.
My great grandfather, James Brown born 1963c, married Agnes Hope Chalmers in Burntisland, Fife, Scotland, had about 10 kids and died 1942. On the certs I have he came from Donegal, Ireland. No more specific on area, I'm afraid.
His parents were Patrick Brown and Helen O'Donnell. I think(?) they stayed in Donegal while James came to Scotland as a young man looking for work.
I have some info on a number of Patrick Brown(e)s from Donegal from the Griffiths evaluation but don't know which is the right one. I would like to find their marriage certificate and work back from that. I imagine Patrick and Helen were born around 1835 and married around 1860.
Can anyone help?
Sarah ???
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Hello Sarah,
There are three items required when searching for Irish ancestors.
1. Denomination.
2. Parish.
3. Townland.
You'll have to rely on Church records as Patrick was born before Civil Registration was introduced in Ireland. Non Catholic marriages were registered from 1845 onwards. When registration for BDMS started in 1864 some people didn't bother with the registration for a few years after that date. Keep your fingers crossed that church records still exist.
Christopher
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Thanks for the info Christopher - would like some more advice if you have the time!
I have 7 Patrick Brown(e)s from the Griffiths with your suggested demomination (all RC), parish and townland list they are as follows
Letterkenny Ballystrang
Kilteevogue Ballykergan
Kilteevogue Cronakerny
Kilteevogue Cronamuck
Kilteevogue Stroangarrow
Dungloe or Lettermacward Loughsalt
Dunglow or Lettermacward Tievegarvlagh
I've got 2 questions. Firstly, what would you say is the best next step to take. Would I go to Donegal Town and look up centrally or to each parish first. Next question is do you know where Ballystrang or Tievegarvlagh are? I can find the others but no idea about these two.
Thanks so much for all your help.
Sarah
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Ballystrang. Townland civil Parish conwal P.L.U. Letterkenny
Tievegarolagh Townland civil Parish Templecrone P.L.U. Glenties.
Co, Donegal Lep
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Ballystrang. Townland civil Parish conwal P.L.U. Letterkenny
Tievegarolagh Townland civil Parish Templecrone P.L.U. Glenties.
Co, Donegal Lep
Conwal - Links www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,302469.0.html
Links - Templecrone www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=302470.new#new
Christopher
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Sarah,Christopher has given you some good link's for you to look at.
Ok The name Helen could also be Eleanor,Ellen,Helen.
There was a Patrick O'Donnell Born in 1809
His wife was Eleanor----- Born in 1813.
Children were Daughter Eleanor Born 1836
" Bridget " 1838
Son George " 1840
Son Charles " 1842
Daughter Grace " 1847.
The Births in Ireland one can never put an exact date they are often can be one or two years out. Sometimes I have found even Fives years out.
I would keep these in mind for it is Eleanors Parents [Helen] It could be your Helen
All Born in Co,Donegal in the Parish of Templecarn. Lep
I will look to see if I can find anything on Brown Browne
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Thanks to both of you - really appreciate the help. Will follow this up and let you know how I get on!
Sarah
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Dear Sarah,
My great grandfather was Johnny Browne from Loughsalt,Donegal.According to the 1901 census he was 46 ,so that means he was born around 1863. He had a brother called James who "went to Edinburgh" and was never heard of again. He also had a brother names Patrick who it is believed "died young" ,a brother Neil and a sister Bridget.
Their f.ather was called Patrick Browne but was known as "caftien" = captain: no one knows why.
It has been deduced that his wife was an Ellen or perhaps Helen.
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How interesting O'Donnell! Of course, all these Patricks, Helens, O'Donnells and Browns don't necessarily mean there is a link but it's definitely worth following up. If you have any links or more info I would be delighted to receive it and/or to let you know what documentation I have.
I have just got an address for a cousin of my late father who is in his seventies. I plan to write to him this week to see if he can fill in any gaps. My James first turns up on the 1891 Scottish Census in Burntisland - aged 28 and lodging in a flat in High Street, Burntisland. He is working as a Shale Miner and his birthplace is Ireland, Donegal. A lot of Irish men found work at Shale Works - there was another big one near Edinburgh and they often moved around. In 1891 James was sharing a room with another Irish man called Peter Reilly. Funnily enough they are living in the same building as the Uncle and Grandmother of Agnes Hope Chalmers who he marries round about this time!
James marries Agnes and they have at least 6 children (Isabella, Ellen, Jane, Patrick, Christina and Agnes) possibly another 2 boys called John and Robert but I haven't found anything to back that up yet. Agnes is my grandmother and she had one son, John, my Dad.
Wouldn't it be great if your Johnny turned out to be my James brother! I'm desparate to find out where my Donegal family comes from.
All the best
Sarah
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Dear Sarah,
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Dear Sarah
I asked some more questions re James Browne and it turned out that he visited his nephew once in Glasgow.How do you know the name of Patrick's wife?
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Their f.ather was called Patrick Browne but was known as "caftien" = captain: no one knows why.
This needn't have any connection with the armed forces or mariners.
He may have been in charge of a gang of men at his workplace.
Christopher
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Hi
On both his wedding cert and his death cert James Brown's parents are listed as
Patrick Browne (Farmer)
Helen Browne (m.s. O'Donnell)
Have you seen the transcript of the 1901 census at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/1901loughsalt.htm
If you scroll down a bit you find your John Browne married to Mary McCole and living with their children. Have a look at the notes below their listing. All the facts are the same as what I know about James so this must be the right family. I've got some certificates downloaded from Scotland's People - am happy to dig them out and email them to you. What I have is James death cert, marriage to Agnes Chalmers cert, Agnes Death Cert,1891 census and 1901 census (both Burntisland).
Any other info you have would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Sarah
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Would like to exchange e mails to share information. However, the information that I have relates to the family post Patrick Browne .So, if that's of any interest I'd be happy to share.
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Hello,
I have located the home of my McShea (McShee) family on the Griffith's Valuation at the west end of Lough Salt in Meenacloghcor. Heading west to Tievegarvlagh are various O'Donnell's and Brown's. My gg grandfather, James McShea, was born 1839 and died 1914 in PA. His wife, Rose O'Donnell (1840), died in childbirth in 1880 in Meenacloghcor. James and their family emigrated shortly after her death. The father of James may be John McShea, married to Ellen.
I am trying to determine who the parents of Rose might be, and if she had any siblings. Based on the information surrounding your Helen and her location in this same spot, I am wondering if she might be an older sister to Rose. The name Helen, or Ellen, or Eleanor, is quite common in my family. One interesting note, there is a rare occurrence of an unusual type of red hair in my family. I have concluded that it comes from the O'Donnell's, so this may be another clue.
Kathy
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Hello,
I have located the home of my McShea (McShee) family on the Griffith's Valuation at the west end of Lough Salt in Meenacloghcor. Heading west to Tievegarvlagh are various O'Donnell's and Brown's. My gg grandfather, James McShea, was born 1839 and died 1914 in PA. His wife, Rose O'Donnell (1840), died in childbirth in 1880 in Meenacloghcor. James and their family emigrated shortly after her death. The father of James may be John McShea, married to Ellen.
I am trying to determine who the parents of Rose might be, and if she had any siblings. Based on the information surrounding your Helen and her location in this same spot, I am wondering if she might be an older sister to Rose. The name Helen, or Ellen, or Eleanor, is quite common in my family. One interesting note, there is a rare occurrence of an unusual type of red hair in my family. I have concluded that it comes from the O'Donnell's, so this may be another clue.
Kathy
Hi Kathy
I haven't come across a Rose O'Donnell. In fact, my information is stuck at Helen and I can't seem to get back any further. But I'll keep an eye out and get in touch if I come across her!
Sarah
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Hey Sarah,
One other thing. Family history has always stated that the records for my McShea/O'Donnell family of Meenacloghcor were lost in a church fire. I do not know which church, or even if it's true. I have been trying to find churches in the Rosses that burned in their vicinity after 1880 or so.
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Hey Sarah,
One other thing. Family history has always stated that the records for my McShea/O'Donnell family of Meenacloghcor were lost in a church fire. I do not know which church, or even if it's true. I have been trying to find churches in the Rosses that burned in their vicinity after 1880 or so.
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Records for Dungloe start 1876 so perhaps earlier records were lost. Someone with local knowledge may be able to confirm this.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1013
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=1013&parish=Dungloe
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Wow! Thanks Aughadowey, I found the last child born to James and Rose O'Donnell McShea of Loughsalt on the link you sent, number 46. Anna McShea, baptized April 2, 1877, sponsors Hugh (I think, hard to read and in Latin, perhaps you could have a go) and Anna O'Donnell. Perhaps these are the parents of Rose, or her brother and his wife. PRONI has a civil record for the death of Rose and her infant in 1880 in Meenacloghcor, so this is the first scrap of information I have that might help.
For Sarah, I send this information because this end of Lough Salt is a little cluster of O'Donnells, Brownes, Hanlons, McShees and Rogerses on the 1857 Griffiths. The townlands there are Loughsalt, Meenacloghcor, and Tievegarvlagh which can be GoogleEarthed.
My mother recently told me that her mother paid the taxes on the McShea property until 1944 or thereabouts, until my grandfather suggested she stop. Is there somewhere I could obtain that information?
Thanks again,
Kathy