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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 12:51 BST (UK)

Title: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 12:51 BST (UK)
This is from  RG11  0038 folio  94  page 50

The family with them is her mum Mary Hooper,and a couple of sisters.

But what is the surname here? And what does it say next to the child Mary,in the occupation column please.

I cannot find the child's birth if it IS what is has been transcribed as,nor can I find a marriage......I won't say what they think it is until you lot have guessed. ;D

Most of the Hoopers were born in Honiton Devon,although the wife Mary is fibbing a bit about her age- she is 10 on the 1861!!!

All suggestions gratefully received. ;)

Carol


Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: rjknott on Wednesday 20 September 06 12:59 BST (UK)
I think it says 'months' next to her age.
I'm still thinking about the surname!
Richard
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: rjknott on Wednesday 20 September 06 13:02 BST (UK)
Change that to 'weeks'
(and it could be 'Hall').
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: sillgen on Wednesday 20 September 06 13:08 BST (UK)
Could it be Plall?  Paull??  A hard one.  I think it is 7 weeks though.
Andrea
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: hepburn on Wednesday 20 September 06 14:00 BST (UK)
Hi Carol,Iv'e seen a marriage 1876 Launceton for a John Halls and Mary hooper.
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: wheeldon on Wednesday 20 September 06 14:01 BST (UK)
I'm never any good at this but I'm throwing my 2 pennies worth in anyway  ;)

I would alos say 'weeks'

As for the name I think it looks like it ends in 'le' - if you look at the 'e' on the end of 'wife' - they do look similar  ???

Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Wednesday 20 September 06 14:55 BST (UK)

John Hall and 7 weeks 

 ??? Looks like a spider crawled over the page, if you look at the following family Hooper you should see the H..

Suey
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: wheeldon on Wednesday 20 September 06 15:07 BST (UK)
Suey, I can see 'Hall' now - I'm learning, slowly but I'm still learning  ;) :D ::)
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Wednesday 20 September 06 15:35 BST (UK)

Just keep peering at the pages wheeldon  ;D some I can do, some I can't.

Something else you might try is go back and forth through the pages, just sometimes the handwriting might be a little bit better and you can 'get an eye in', usually works well for the area or street name too  :D

Suey
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 16:30 BST (UK)
Hi all

As you might well know by now- LDS and Ancestry both have the family as Hall and baby Mary as 7 weeks. But there IS no birth of a Mary Hall in March 1/4 of 1881,nor is there a marriage of a Maey E Hooper to a John Hall in the appropriate timescale.

If the 1876 Launceston one was correct(although her middle name is Elizabeth-her younger sister is Mary Ann  ::)) hubby John would only have been 16/17.

Can't see it myself.

Very odd.

Keep at it folks,the more suggestions the better.  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: Sylviaann on Wednesday 20 September 06 17:34 BST (UK)
The birth was probably registered in the June quarter.  Have you tried that

Sylviaann
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: yn9man on Wednesday 20 September 06 18:26 BST (UK)
At first blush I thought the name was Paull but after looking awhile it really looks like Hall. I would say 7 weeks as the age of the baby.

yn9man
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Wednesday 20 September 06 20:06 BST (UK)
Quote
If the 1876 Launceston one was correct(although her middle name is Elizabeth-her younger sister is Mary Ann  ) hubby John would only have been 16/17.

Can't see it myself.


There is no guarantee that Johns age is correct..

Is this the family in 1871?  RG10/2038/F93/p22 - in which case it seems Sarah is the only Hooper in 1881 with the correct age.

1861 - RG9/1376/F17/p27
Don't worry too much about their being two Mary's - The first Mary E was born c1851 so would have been 17 when Mary A was born. The first Mary may not even have been at home, probably already away working.
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Wednesday 20 September 06 20:33 BST (UK)
BINGO!!!

Marriage - Mary Hooper - Kensington RD - June Qtr 1878 - Vol 1a page 223

There are only two names on the page, there should be 4 ie 2 couples, looks as though John Hall has not yet been transcribed

Birth - Mary Ann Hall - Kensington RD - SEPT Qtr 1880 - Vol 1a page 44

Suey
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 22:15 BST (UK)
Suey,

You are an absolute star  :-* :-* :-* Thank you thank you thank you.

So everyone that 7 must say MONTHS - not weeks  ::)

If John really was only 22 in 1881- I think we can imagine why Mary fibbed a bit about her age...and her mum also told a little white lie didn't she  ;D

Will go looking for John Hall in a minute or two..

Brilliant work Sherlock

Carol
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 22:18 BST (UK)
Can you imagine poor old John's dilema in that household  :P

When he calls for Mary,he could get his wife,his mother in law,his sister in law or his daughter.

Just a thought  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: wheeldon on Wednesday 20 September 06 22:44 BST (UK)
Carol, I'm so glad you have your mystery sorted.

Darn it, I got it wrong again  :( :( :( :(

One of these days I will get/read it right  ??? ??? ;) :(
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Wednesday 20 September 06 22:50 BST (UK)
Quote
Can you imagine poor old John's dilema in that household  

When he calls for Mary,he could get his wife,his mother in law,his sister in law or his daughter.

 ;D ;D ;D Lol Carol, I never thought of that...poor chap!

Glad to be of help by the way

Suey


Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 23:03 BST (UK)
Ahhhhhhhh Suey,slight problem here though.

Baby is same name as mum Mary Elizabeth ......not Mary Ann.

It is grandma and her youngest daughter who are Mary Ann(Hooper)

Not convinced it IS Hall now........sorry.

Carol
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 September 06 23:15 BST (UK)
Have just checked all the John Hall's married in June 1878,there is not one in Kensington I'm afraid  :(

Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Thursday 21 September 06 10:08 BST (UK)
Quote
Have just checked all the John Hall's married in June 1878,there is not one in Kensington I'm afraid 

Quote
Marriage - Mary Hooper - Kensington RD - June Qtr 1878 - Vol 1a page 223

There are only two names on the page, there should be 4 ie 2 couples, looks as though John Hall has not yet been transcribed


Again Mary E could be a mistake on the census - I'd say that if you are looking for a Mary Hooper and you know the one in 1881 is yours because her mother is with her, order the birth cert for the Mary above but say you only want the cert if the mothers maiden name is Hooper.

Suey

Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: sillgen on Thursday 21 September 06 15:26 BST (UK)
I have not been convinced by the Hall theory as if you look at the H for Head which follows it is hard to see that they are the same.  How about Mcall or something similar?   Can you find them on another census and see what that says?
Andrea
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: suey on Thursday 21 September 06 15:45 BST (UK)

I looked at the 1891 this morning - zilch, but that's not to say they are'nt there somewhere

Looking at marriages and using free BMD for Mary Hooper, London between 1877 and 1833 throws up the surnames Bristow, Bolton, Scott and Edwards with first name John - and one William John with no surname, the Mary on that page is Mary Charlotte...having said that some pages only have 2 or three names so not all spouses are showing.

Suey
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: sillgen on Thursday 21 September 06 16:10 BST (UK)
I have looked at 1891 too.  they do not seem to appear!   In 1871 there is a John Cleal born Pddington at about the right time.
Could one of the squiggles be a second initial for John?   One is obviously coming down from the entry above.  Try wiping that out and see what it looks like!
I am sure that the age for Mary E is 7 weeks.  Look at the k in Cook for Mary Hooper's occupation and it is exactly the same.  I think the way forward is to write to the local office and ask them to look for a birth where the mother's name is Hooper?  You can give a fairly precise date.
Andrea
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: Daisypetal on Thursday 21 September 06 17:38 BST (UK)
Hi,

I think it looks like DEALL   :-\

there is this birth,

Mary Ethel DEAL Mar Q  1881  Kensington  v.1a  p.163


Oh, but now I've found this marriage which may be her parents,

George Herbert DEALL Mar Q 1880  Kensington  v.1a p.23
Mary Ethel LEE on same page ???

if so not the Mary E Jnr you want  :-\


Now I'm confusing myself  :) but I still think it looks like DEALL :)

Regards
Daisy
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: sillgen on Thursday 21 September 06 20:07 BST (UK)
I had considered the D theory too!  We must solve this soon....
Andrea
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: SallyF on Thursday 21 September 06 21:55 BST (UK)
I think it says "Hall" or "Hull".

Both Mary's (Mum and daughter) were born in Honiton in Devon(shire).  How did John and Mary meet if he was born in Paddington? 

Did he move to Devon?  There is one John Hall born "London, Middlesex" living in Devon on the 1871 census, but his age is slightly out.  He was 16, or so it says, and he was working as a footman.  Would a footman progress to being a porter by 1881?

Just surmising.....will keep looking.


Sally
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: SallyF on Thursday 21 September 06 22:55 BST (UK)
Have just checked all the John Hall's married in June 1878,there is not one in Kensington I'm afraid  :(

Back to the drawing board.


There's a John Halls marrying a Mary Anne Hooper in June 1/4 1876 - Launceston 5c 38

And Emma Halls born Apr-May-Jun 1881 - Launceston 5c 46.

Perhaps it was WEEKS after all, and the enumerator was having a really bad day.

Sally
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 September 06 23:03 BST (UK)
That one has been mentioned before Sally,but I'm afraid she isn't Mary Anne- her mum and younger sister are........she is Mary Elizabeth.

Whatever the reason they all ended up in London is also why older sister Elizabeth Hooper went up to town and married there too,in 1888.

Her dad and brother both called George died in Honiton in 1878 and 1877.
I guess they moved up after that?

This isn't my family but an attempt to find everyone for a friend.
His line is through Elizabeth.

Thanks for all your suggestions anyway.

Carol
Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: seahall on Thursday 21 September 06 23:27 BST (UK)
Hi Carol

Not sure about that as on the next page he has written 7 mo and it looks like 7 weeks to me too.  ;D

Sandy

Title: Re: 1881 what does it say?
Post by: SallyF on Friday 22 September 06 00:06 BST (UK)
Hi Carol,

Just throwing another possibility in.   :D

What if it's not Hall but Hale.  The writing on the rest of the page has some lower case letters that are as big as the capitals.  The last letter could be an "e" rather than a "L".

What do you think?

Sally