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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: reliantron on Tuesday 26 September 06 21:09 BST (UK)

Title: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: reliantron on Tuesday 26 September 06 21:09 BST (UK)
             I have just discovered that an uncle of mine was in The Queens Regt. during WW1.
             How would he have finished in the Labour Corps?
             He was issued with a different service number. Was this normal?
             Lastly what was the Labour Corps?
             Any help appreciated.

                                            Ron
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: old rowley on Tuesday 26 September 06 21:46 BST (UK)
Hi Ron,

The Labour Corps were formed in the feb' of 1917 and lasted til 1921. It was made up of men that had been in the front line and who had been either wounded or taken ill and could not be returned to the front or men who, on enlistment, were found to be too old or did not pass as  fit enough to be sent to the front. By the November of 1918 some 400,000 men were serving in the Labour Corps. Being in this body of men did not stop you being killed by enemy action as some 9,000 men were killed. Their duties would have been anything from helping in stores, taking equipment up to the front, repairing roads and such like, helping at rest areas by manning theaters and cinema's in fact anything that was need of them they would have done.

Ivor Lee has a very good site with regards to the Labour Corps at www.geocities.com/labour_corps and can be contacted on that site. As you have name and Labour Corps service number Ivor maybe able to tell you what company your rellie was in and even (at along shot) tell you where. If the link above does not get you to the site google Labour corps and Ivor's site will be one of the first that will appear.

I would suggest that your rellie was possibly wounded and after recouperation he would have been sent to the Labour Corps and given his "new" army service number which was a normal thing to have happened.


old rowley
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: reliantron on Tuesday 26 September 06 21:55 BST (UK)
         Hi old rowley,

                              Thanks for your prompt and informative reply to my query.
          I will have go at Ivor Lee's site and see what comes up tomorrow.
                               Once again thanks

                                                  Ron
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: philnash on Monday 18 June 12 17:47 BST (UK)
Just a note that Ivor's site has gone due to the closure of Geocities; however, it is still visible through the Wayback Machine here :

http://web.archive.org/web/20030617180048/http://www.geocities.com/labour_corps/ancestor.htm

I haven't tried to contact him so don't know if his email still works.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 June 12 19:10 BST (UK)
http://www.labourcorps.co.uk/Index.html

You can get to it via the Royal Pioneer Corps website

Ady
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: newburychap on Monday 18 June 12 19:53 BST (UK)
Before the Labour Corps was created in 1917 individual regiments had labour companies who performed the varied non-combat tasks involved in keeping the war running smoothly(ish).  All of these companies transferred to the Labour Corp when it appeared - your chap could easily have been in a Queen's' labour company pre-1917.

Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: philnash on Monday 18 June 12 19:57 BST (UK)
Thanks for that link, I note from the "Researching Men" linked page that

"Researching a man who served in the Labour Corps can be a difficult task."

Quite so. I have found a Leonard Stanley Nash, aged 38+280 days who might be a relative of mine and his signup papers in the "burnt records", and it's not clear if he signed up to the 133rd Labour Coy, but seems to have been assigned to the 28th, but not until 1917 when he was moved from the Reserve. I can't see the second page with details of next of kin at present, so can't verify if it's him.

If anyone's researched him already, I'd be glad to hear.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: newburychap on Monday 18 June 12 21:28 BST (UK)
I have found a Leonard Stanley Nash, aged 38+280 days who might be a relative of mine and his signup papers in the "burnt records", and it's not clear if he signed up to the 133rd Labour Coy, but seems to have been assigned to the 28th, but not until 1917 when he was moved from the Reserve. I can't see the second page with details of next of kin at present, so can't verify if it's him.
His NoK was his wife, Emily, nee Kimber,

He certainly didn't sign up with the Labour Corps as it didn't exist when he attested in Dec 1915.  This must have been under the Derby Scheme - he didn't actually get called up until 8 Mar 1917.

He started with the Queen's (Royal West Surrey) - 25th (28th?) Labour Company.  Transferred to Labour Corps in May.  It's all in his record - you need to take a look at more than the first page.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: philnash on Monday 18 June 12 22:25 BST (UK)
Much obliged for that; I'll check my subscription and see if it needs upgrading, because it is the correct NOK.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: newburychap on Tuesday 19 June 12 17:18 BST (UK)
If you can see the first page you must surely be able to see the rest - just go to the first page and then click to view the next page (there are about 18 pages for him).
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: forester on Wednesday 20 June 12 21:45 BST (UK)
The Labour Corps number 79520 indicates that he was with 25th Infantry Labour Company, The Queens, which became 133 Labour Company on the formation of the Labour Corps. (From "No Labour, No Battle).

Phil
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: philnash on Wednesday 20 June 12 22:35 BST (UK)
Thanks, will follow this up.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: smudgepants on Friday 09 September 16 21:49 BST (UK)
If anyone reading this post finds out that their relatives were in the Labour Corps here, in Lyons La Foręt or in the surrounding areas I would love to hear from them as I am studying this areas involvements during both world wars and I know that the Labour corps along with the Royal Engineers were here.

Alex.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: kall on Friday 28 April 17 15:29 BST (UK)
Hi Alex
Only just read this post and not sure if you are still doing your research. My great grandfather was in the Labour Corps 107th Co and died on Dec 1st 1917. His name is on the memorial at Cambrai.He was previously in the Royal Fusiliers.
Karen
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: starcat on Saturday 29 April 17 08:49 BST (UK)
My great uncle enlisted in the 1st Connaught rangers in mid 1915 I dont know exactly when he transfered into the labour corp but it was because he was unfit for front line soldiering, I do know he suffered badly from shell shock to the point it ruined his life,most of which was  spent in a mental hospital.
Jenn
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: gazza1966 on Saturday 11 November 17 12:39 GMT (UK)
Hi There,

I've recently come across the Labour Corps on this site, and wondering if anyone can help please on any info at all of my grandfather.

On the British Army WW1 Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920

                       NAME: William F. Flanagan
REGIMENT OR CORPS: London Regiment, Labour Corps.
       REGIMENTAL NO: 5027, 488111, 535432.

Kind Regards
    Gary
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: kall on Saturday 11 November 17 13:33 GMT (UK)
Did you know Gary that military records are free on Ancestry, FindMyPast and Fold3 this weekend
Karen
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: gazza1966 on Saturday 11 November 17 13:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Karen,
Ooh is it, thankyou, im onto it straight away.

Regards
  Gary
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: smudgepants on Friday 08 December 17 19:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Alex
Only just read this post and not sure if you are still doing your research. My great grandfather was in the Labour Corps 107th Co and died on Dec 1st 1917. His name is on the memorial at Cambrai.He was previously in the Royal Fusiliers.
Karen

Sorry Karen, I never saw this. Do you know where he was based at all? 
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: kall on Friday 08 December 17 19:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Alex...no I don’t am afraid....so many John Smiths
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 09 December 17 10:49 GMT (UK)
Kall

Your John Smith was, as you say, in 107 Company Labour Corps.  That company had been formed from 37 Labour Battalion Royal Fusiliers which was most likely the battalion he had served with first.  Half the company were taken prisoner at Gouzeaucourt during the Battle of Cambrai in an attack on 30 November 1917 which very probably was the same action in which he fell on 1 Dec 1917.  As he is commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial it is because he has no known grave.  Exactly where they were during the attack may be able to be established.

MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: kall on Saturday 09 December 17 13:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Max. Thankyou for that. His regiment number was 63993 and he enlisted in Edenbridge in Kent. His Royal Fusiliers number was 45128
Karen
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 09 December 17 15:34 GMT (UK)
As you probably now, apart from his medal records and the entry in the Register of Soldiers' Effects, no service record for him survives.  There is also no war diary for 107 Labour Company.

However, Rudyard Kipling's history of the Irish Guards has reference to men of the Labour Corps being taken prisoner on 30 November 1917 when the Guards were sent from Metz in urgent response to an enemy breakthrough in the area of Gonnelieu which caused a general retirement of troops in that area.. 
As was pointed out by an observer of that curious day—“’Tis little ye can do with gunsights, an’ them in the arrums av men in a great haste. There was men with blankets round ’em, an’ men with loose putties wavin’ in the wind, and they told us ’twas a general retirement. We could see that. We wanted to know for why they was returnin’. We went through ’em all, fairly breastin’ our way and—we found Jerry on the next slope makin’ prisoners of a Labour Corps with picks an’ shovels. But some of that same Labour Corps they took their picks an’ shovels and came on with us.”
  Link here http://www.telelib.com/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/prose/IrishGuardsv1/1917sommegouseaucourt.html

It is highly likely that your John Smith lost his life along with the Irish Guards in the action that day, his death being reported the day after, 1 Dec 1917.   It took place in the area on the link:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=50.0600&lon=3.1001&layers=101465203&right=BingHyb
The enemy came from off the map to the centre right and the Guards encountered them in the area of the D7 road between Gouzeaucourt and Gouzeaucourt Wood, half way towards Metz.

MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Saturday 09 December 17 16:10 GMT (UK)
Here is a link about the Labour Corps:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-labour-corps-of-1917-1918/
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: kall on Saturday 09 December 17 16:19 GMT (UK)
Thankyou so much Max and River Tyne Lass.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Gordon163 on Thursday 26 July 18 09:58 BST (UK)
I've just come across this very interesting thread.

My gt-gt-uncle, James Johnson, was initially in KRRC Reg No. 98.

Later in the war he transferred to The Labour Corps Reg No. 396512.

The medal roll says that he was discharged on 28 Feb 1919.

Does anyone know where he might have gone with the Labour Corps, please?

Regards,

Gordon
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 26 July 18 10:42 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat!

The usual start to an enquiry about the Labour Corps goes "notoriously difficult to research".  You are luckier than most in that his (very badly damaged) service record is on line on a subscription site.  It at least says which company he was in  - 263 Area Employment Company but that is when the luck begins to run out. It was a company attached to III Corps but, like most LC companies, it did not keep its own diary.  In addition, it isn't clear at first reading when he transferred from KRRC.

There is a suggestion in the record that he served in the Boer War.  Can you give his date and place of birth and any other personal info (wife/kids) that will help confirm the records are not mixed up with another one and we'll have another look.

Meanwhile you might like to consider a trial sub or look at Findmypast at a library?

MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 26 July 18 11:04 BST (UK)
It doesn't look like he transferred at the formation of the LC as his number is in a batch allocated to the 2nd. Lab. Coy. KLR. which became the 67th. Coy. LC.
So looks like he's been given a spare number sometime later.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Gordon163 on Thursday 26 July 18 12:11 BST (UK)
Hi Max,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

James Johnson was born on 19 Feb 1881 in Alvington, Gloucs. He had a twin brother Ernest Johnson, who was in the Welsh Regiment and was KIA, in Flanders, in 1915.

James was in The Somerset Light Infantry 1898 -1904. Army record has birthplace as Caldecot, Near Chepstow, Mons., where his family lived. He served in South Africa.
He married Beatrice Love Oliver in Walsall in 1908.
They had two children: Ernest Arthur, born in Monmouthshire in 1909 and Marjorie, born in Doncaster in 1917.

Kind regards,

Gordon
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 26 July 18 15:28 BST (UK)
Jim - yes, he is one of a small number of men of other regiments in among a whole slew of numbers allocated to men of the Rifle Brigade!  The man with the previous number went to 107 Company.  Usual Labour Corps puzzle!

More later.

MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Thursday 26 July 18 19:54 BST (UK)
Gordon

The significance of the exchange about Labour Corps numbers is that your man's record has no discernible date for the transfer from KRRC to the Labour Corps and, as Jim1 has said, his number is in a block that was allocated to the mass conversion of one of the King's Liverpool Labour companies into one of the newly formed Labour Corps companies in 1917, which can be dated.

Thus all we have so far is the Labour Corps unit he was in when he finished his service and the certainty that, as he was in France until 23 November 1918 and immediately sent back to UK for early release as a miner, that LC unit was in France in the area covered by III Corps.

Others may be able to squeeze more out of his record as far as the LC is concerned?  You may wish to get a copy of "No Labour No Battle" by John Starling and Ivor Lee, the seminal work on the Labour Corps and see whether 263 Area Employment Company is mentioned.  This may help also:
http://royalpioneercorps.co.uk/rpc/history_records.htm

MaxD


Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Gordon163 on Thursday 26 July 18 20:47 BST (UK)
Max

Thank you so much for what yourself and Jim1 have contributed. I noticed that the Great War Forum mentioned that 263 Company were in Peronne in September 1917 and Ugny-Le-Gay in February 1918. His daughter Marjorie SS born 17 Feb 1917, so he must have had leave in the spring of 1916. I suspect he was wounded sometime in 1916 and then returned to the Labour Corps.

Thanks for the other places to look for further information.

Kind regards,

Gordon
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Monday 03 September 18 18:31 BST (UK)
Hello,

I've just come across this thread and wondered if anyone can help me please.

My Grandfather, James Mason, was in the Duke of Wellington's West Riding Regiment. His regiment number was 13623. Unfortunately I have been unable to find any records for him on the subscription websites. I do know he fought near Ypres, was badly injured and gassed and sent to a hospital in Stoke on Trent. He also has a Labour Corps number, 16406, am I correct in thinking that after he was discharged from hospital he would have been sent to the Labour Corps. He didn't talk about the war much but he never mentioned going back to the front.....perhaps he served in the Labour Corps in England.

Is there any way I can find out where he went in the Labour Corps, I do know this is a long shot as the most of their records were destroyed.

Thanks

Ruth
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Monday 03 September 18 19:42 BST (UK)
His LC no. was 167308.
His WRR Batt. was the 10th. Service Battalion.
His LC no. was amongst a batch given to the 25th. Works Battalion D.L.I. who became the 7th. Labour Battalion.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Monday 03 September 18 20:16 BST (UK)
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply.  Gosh where did you get all that information from? I'm a novice with army records!  Sorry to throw more questions at you, but what did D.L.I stand for and also do you know where they went and what they did please?

Thanks
Ruth
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Monday 03 September 18 20:21 BST (UK)
Hi Jim,

Sorry, I should have Googled it before asking you! I've found what it stands for and where they were! Skipton makes sense as he was originally from a small village not far from there.

Thank you anyway

Ruth
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Monday 03 September 18 20:55 BST (UK)
I need to emphasise that just because he had an LC no. allocated to the 25th. D.L.I. doesn't necessarily mean that's where he went. There were many occasions where spare numbers were given out to men who were sent to whichever Lab. Corps Coy. needed them. In fact he must have gone elsewhere as the 25th. D.L.I. (later 7th. Lab. Batt.) never went overseas & as he appears on the LC Medal Roll means he did serve overseas in the LC.
The other bit I can tell you is that he received the 15 Star (entry into France 22/8/15), the British War & Victory medals.
He first went into action on the 25th. Sept. at Bois Grenier.

Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Tuesday 04 September 18 09:23 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for that, Jim. Our family have often wondered where he served. He mentioned to my mother that he was near Ypres and that's all we ever knew.
I am surprised that he went back overseas with the LC as his hip injury meant he always walked with a stick…..but perhaps that was in later life. Is there any way of finding out where he went with the LC?

Also are there any records of where casualties were treated? I think he was sent to Stoke on Trent, but I've no idea when or how long for. He was gassed and had shrapnel in his hip, he said the pain was so bad he hoped the next hit would bury him.

Sorry...so many questions but you have made my day already by finding this out!

Many thanks

Ruth

Bizarrely I know of Loos as I visited there with my husband 3 years ago, his Great Uncle died there on the 3rd October 1915, they must have been in the same battle.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 04 September 18 11:37 BST (UK)
Quote
Is there any way of finding out where he went with the LC?
Without knowing which Coy. he was in I'm afraid not.
Quote
are there any records of where casualties were treated?
There were hundreds of military hospitals in the UK so you would need his medical history sheet to have any chance of finding out. This would have been with his service record.
Wherever he went he would have been there for several months including time rehabilitating.
He than would have had his final medical assessment & anything lower than A1 would have excluded him from frontline service. Going into the LC was a common route for men re-assessed B1 or 2.
If the information is that he received his wound at Ypres it would be after Oct. 1916 as the 10/WRR were in France up until then. In Nov. 1917 they moved to Italy.
His 1st. tour in the trenches on the Salient was 11th. Nov.
The 1st. major assault he was involved in on the Salient was on the 7th. June 1917 at (would you believe) Hill 60.
It became a much talked about event & there are even films made about it.
I wouldn't want to have seen what he saw.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Old Bristolian on Tuesday 04 September 18 11:42 BST (UK)
Jim,

I wonder if you can help with the following:

Neil Dougal, born Motherwell, Lanarkshire 2nd December 1890.
Enlisted in Argyll & Sutherlands 1st October 1914 (reg. no. 3091)Served in BEF 11.11.1914 -11.12.1914
Discharged as physically unfit 31st July 1915
Private in the Highland Light Infantry (April 1916)
Medal cards (he has two) also state in Labour Corps (no. 567276) and Seaforth Highlanders (15863, discharged)
After the war he enlisted in the 2nd.Lowland Division RE.

I would be very interested to find out where he might have served in the Labour Corps especially,

Steve
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 04 September 18 11:55 BST (UK)
Hello Steve
Can you start a new topic. This one's getting a bit congested.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Tuesday 04 September 18 13:45 BST (UK)
Jim,

 Once again very many thanks for your incredible knowledge and help.

I'm not completely certain he was wounded at Ypres, it's just hearsay from my late  Mum. To his mind perhaps he was near Ypres at Bois Grenier. But thank you for the information of where the battalion were fighting.

He did marry my Grandmother in the 4th quarter of 1917 which rather points to an earlyish injury  and their first son was born in April 1918, so at some point before the end of the war he was back in Yorkshire, even if it was just for a short time.
 I'm thinking my next step should be to get a copy of their marriage certificate, perhaps there will be some helpful information on there as to occupation and address at time of marriage.

I agree, just looking of photographs of the time horrifies me…..he was an untravelled country lad, who only signed up because he was tired of being served mouldy apple pie for lunch at the farm he worked on. I can't begin to imagine the Hell they all landed in.

I plan a visit to Kew for other genealogy research. Do you know if they have anything more there that isn't on line or that you have access to?  I have to think his service record hasn't survived.

Many thanks

Ruth
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 04 September 18 15:10 BST (UK)
You won't find anything more at Kew.
So back well before Sept. 1917. He must have been pretty fit to be allowed to marry in Sept.-Dec. 1917 so was probably due to go back. I think you can say that from that point he was in the LC.
It's possible he's been injured around the time of the assault on Hill 60.
His marriage cert. probably won't yield much but worth a try.
The first mention of gas was on the 5/6th. June while they were waiting in railway dugouts for the order to move up to their assembly positions prior to the mine explosions.
The shelling was quite intense as they were held up by it for 1 1/2 hours.
There was more gas after they had reached their objective. They were relieved on the 10th.
I've been there a couple of times, the last to this exact location. Where the mine exploded there now lies a 40' deep lake.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Tuesday 04 September 18 16:55 BST (UK)
I appreciate the time you've taken over all my questions, Jim. I'll read up on Hill 60, we certainly know more than we did before and have an image of what it must have been like for him.

Thank you
Ruth
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 04 September 18 17:48 BST (UK)
This is the battlefield map used on the day.
10/WRR were in LEEK trench when the mines exploded.
Their route in was along the communication trenches & up to the frontline.
When the barrage lifted along the red line they went over the top.
Their orders were to make it to the blue line & consolidate it.
You'll notice just behind Impact support trench between that & the tramway is an oblong pillbox.
It's still there today.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Artful Owl on Saturday 08 September 18 15:14 BST (UK)
Hi Jim,
Sorry to have been a few days replying to your post.
I think you are most probably right about him being at Hill 60, certainly if he was still in the 10th Battalion. It fits all the criteria, gassing, shelling and close to Ypres.
 I've also looked up the Roll of Honour for the 10th Battalion and apart from one soldier falling in July 1916 most casualties are from 7th June 1917 onwards. Which does point to that being where he was injured, he had to be fit enough to be back in Yorkshire for late summer.
Could he have gone into the LC after his marriage?
Without realising the significance at the time I visited the area about 15 years ago. Was this the hill where the blast was heard back in England?

Thanks
Ruth
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 08 September 18 15:32 BST (UK)
Quote
Was this the hill where the blast was heard back in England?
That's the one or I should 19. 25 were detonated but only 19 exploded.
It was alleged that Lloyd George heard it in no.10.
We'll never know for sure when he went into the LC but this was the usual route for recovered soldiers. Marriage before being posted was also very common.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Devonia18 on Friday 09 November 18 13:40 GMT (UK)
I cannot find any military records of my grandfather WILLIAM BIBBY. On his son’s birth certificate on 1 May 1917, he was described as Private 14th King’s Liverpool Regiment Labour Batt. No 71511 (Grocer’s Traveller). On his marriage certificate 16 February 1916 he was described as Traveller, so I think he must not have joined up until after that date.
I do not know if he was in France, or why he was in a Labour Battalion. Would he have joined that as medically unfit? Or would he have been put in it after he became unfit?
I have his birth certificate, Preston Lancashire, from 1894, and his death certificate 1965.
I have tried Find My Past and Forces War Records. Does anyone know where I should go now please?
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Friday 09 November 18 16:05 GMT (UK)
The service number doesn't connect with the name Bibby or Kings Liverpool or Labour Corps and the name doesn't connect with any combination of the regiments on Ancestry (and FindMyPast which you've looked at already) or the National Archives (where there would be the original medal card for overseas service - there are 8 William Bibby none in KLR, none with 71511 none with Labour Corps (which the Labour Battalions later became.)

MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Devonia18 on Friday 09 November 18 16:13 GMT (UK)
Thank you MaxD. This is strange. The information is very clearly written on the Birth Certificate, no chance of me misreading it. My grandmother registered the birth, so the information would have come from her. Something is wrong somewhere!
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Devonia18 on Friday 09 November 18 17:55 GMT (UK)
I have looked up the 8 William Bibby records and have no way of knowing if any may be right. If I were to ask you to speculate, would you think he could have been evading military service? Or evading his wife? It seems strange he was not in the Army in February 1916, age 21. Or is that normal?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: jim1 on Friday 09 November 18 18:54 GMT (UK)
Firstly the 14th. KLR was a Service Batt. not a Labour Batt.
There were around 1.5 m. men of military age who were still civilians at the end of 1915.
Conscription in early 1916 was a result of that.
He may have married in Feb. of that year because he'd received his call up papers.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Devonia18 on Friday 09 November 18 19:10 GMT (UK)
Interesting thought on timing of wedding.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Devonia18 on Friday 09 November 18 19:22 GMT (UK)
There are 10 men with service number 71511. None of them is William Bibby. Is it usual to have 10 people with the same number? I know nothing of WW1 service numbers!
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Friday 09 November 18 19:27 GMT (UK)
A possibility is that the person making the entry on the certificate should have put 14 Infantry Labour Company which was one of the no less than 27 Infantry Labour Companies formed under the banner of the King's Liverpool (No Labour No Battle).
Could it simply be that :
a his records are (like the majority) lost in WW2 and
b. he didn't go overseas so no medal record.
c.  if he did then his medal records atre lost also.

14 ILC became 79 Labour Company later with numbers between 46801 and 47400.  I had looked also for this batch of numbers and found, coincidence, a William Bibby  Labour Corps medal card but his only other regiment was the Manchesters.
Yes to the numbers game.  Numbers were regimentally allocated although the system changed mid war.


MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Devonia18 on Friday 09 November 18 19:44 GMT (UK)
Really really helpful thanks. This all sounds possible. Some misdescription on the birth certificate, and lost records. Your answer on the numbers is not what I expected, and it is useful to know.
I mistrust my memory because it would be 50 years ago that any of this was mentioned and I would be in my teens. But I think I remember it being said he never left the UK.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 10 November 18 00:16 GMT (UK)
Another Labour Corps man.

I'm trying to connect this man to the correct family, I think I know who he belongs to but was hoping his service record might have survived to firm things up but I'm having no luck finding it.

He is James Doyle 547290 Scottish Command Labour Centre,
Labour Corps transferred from Royal Dublin Fusiliers 24773
died in Brighton 17 Jan 1919
CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/662964/doyle,-/
His Will http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/reels/sw/1918_22/DoyleJ_E725225.pdf
Can anyone find anything I've missed please.

His grave has lost it's maker (rusted away) and it's bugging me to see it that way so I'd like to figure out who his family are.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: MaxD on Saturday 10 November 18 09:40 GMT (UK)
His service record has not survived but I would have thought, as the names of his father and his mother, with an address, appear variously in the will, the CWGC detail, Soldier's Died in the Great War and the Effects Register, his family are pretty well defined.

MaxD
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 10 November 18 09:47 GMT (UK)
I thought the same but the eldest in the family ( I think is great nephew)said he isn't related to them. I'll have to try and go from the present back.
Thank you for looking.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 10 November 18 11:24 GMT (UK)
I've just been reading a piece the great nephew wrote about four grand uncles who served in the war and two Joseph and Thomas have the same parents and address as James. I think he just missed James. Looking at the family in the Census all three names feature.
Looking good.
Title: Re: Labour Corps WW1
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 10 November 18 11:39 GMT (UK)
Does an E after a brothers name on a service record mean the brother has Enlisted?
I'm looking at Thomas Doyle's record and Father Mother and three brothers are listed with and E after each brother's name, they include a James.