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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rhobbis on Tuesday 03 October 06 07:47 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm trying to find the name of the husband of Mary HOBBIS (married name), born abt. 1843 and had children Harry Hobbis (1866), Walter (1867), George Walter (1870), Florence Maud (1872), and Emma (1875), all from the St Barnabas / Ladywood area of Birmingham.
I found the family in the 1881 UK Census but no father listed, so presumably he had died or moved on by then.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=22271437
Can anyone help me find this family in the 1871 Census, or earlier, that shows who the father was?
Thanks in advance!
Richard Hobbis
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Hi Richard,
Welcome to Rootschat :) :)
This is a puzzle right away!
I can see an extracted christening on the IGI for a Florence Maud Hobbis (birth 1872, christening 1883), but her parents are Harry and Sarah Rebecca. ???
As I'm stuck as far as 1871 is concerned, I tried to trace the family forward to 1891 and look what I see:
RG12/2352 95 35
Kings Norton Balsall Heath, Worcestershire
Harry Hobbis, head, 48, wid, Gardener
Walter, son, 24, Coal Labourer
George, son, 21, Brass Burnisher?
Florence, dau, 18, Domestic servant
Emma, dau, 16, Iron Plate Worker
All born Birmingham.
Could the 1881 be wrong and should it have been Harry instead of Mary, I wonder? Or is this a coincidence and the family you are searching for are elsewhere ???
(There is a Sarah Rebecca Hobbis dying at Birmingham in 1879 age 34)
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I can't see Harry on earlier census returns :-\
There is however a marriage Harry or Henry Hobbis to possibly Sarah Rebecca Gozzard, Birmingham 6d 76 Sep 1864
(and a birth 1842 Birmingham for Henry Hobbis)
I think you'd have to get hold of a birth cert for one of the children...
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GRO - Henry Hobbis birth Birmingham 3Q 1842 16 216. Can't see him on the censuses though.
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Possible match:
1851
HO107/2051 538 16
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Camden Street
Emma Hobbiss, head, wid, 38, Laundress
Emma, dau, 18, **plate Burnisher?
Eliza, dau, 16, Warehouse woman
Clara, dau, 14, Steel pen worker
Frederick, son, 12, Jeweller
Henry, son, 8, Errand Boy
Caroline, dau, 6, school
Hannah, dau, 4
All born Birmingham
(according to 1841, father was called Frederick, age 34 in 1841)
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Wow, you guys are great! :) Thank you
It sure is a puzzle that's unfolding here - I'll have to see if I can get a birth certificate for George Walter (b.abt.1870) since he is my direct great grandfather.
Harry Hobbis 1842 is a good bet since that is the first son's name, and Sarah is also used as a middle name by one of George Walter's children (Alice Sarah, who was commonly known as Sarah), so that's as good a bet for their mother's name - 'Mary' could easily have been mistaken for 'Harry'.
Thanks for your help so far :D
Richard
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Are you sure he was called George Walter ? The only birth I can see is
George Hobbis, Birmingham 6d 21, Sep 1869 :-\
Is he the one who is married to a Lucy, living at Birmingham, in 1901?
If so, then this could be their marriage:
George Hobbis (not George Walter) to possibly Lucy Paddock Dec 1891 Birmingham 6d 47
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Emma Hobbiss, head, wid, 38, Laundress
(according to 1841, father was called Frederick, age 34 in 1841)
The info keeps coming! :D :o
Is the double 'ss' the original spelling or a typo on your part?
Is the father Frederick Hobbiss (double s) ?
OK, it looks like Harry may be a misspelling of Henry, going by those dates and facts. The birth cert should prove that.
George Walter 1893 I'm certain of from family records.
George Hobbis 1870 ... hmmm now you've got me wondering where I got the 'Walter' from ???
(I've only recently started on genealogy research and am learning fast to take lots of notes!)
Thanks again!
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It's Hobbiss in 1851, Hobbis in 1841 (and the girls that I could see in 1861 were Hobbiss). You'll soon be familiar with spellings varying from source to source ;)
Is Lucy Paddock the correct wife?
I see the son is indeed George Walter Hobbis - Sep 1892 Birmingham 6d 35
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I believe it's actually Sarah Lucy Paddock, or Lucy Sarah - we're not quite sure which ... she was commonly known as Lucy
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I believe it's actually Sarah Lucy Paddock, or Lucy Sarah - we're not quite sure which ... she was commonly known as Lucy
Well that's strange. She's Lucy at marriage (I don't suppose there are dozens of Hobbis/Paddock marriages around 1892 in Birmingham) and there aren't any Sarah Lucy or Lucy Sarah Paddocks that I can see... but there is a Lucy Paddock, birth Dec 1870 Birmingham, who is quite easy to trace ???
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Well that's strange. She's Lucy at marriage (I don't suppose there are dozens of Hobbis/Paddock marriages around 1892 in Birmingham) and there aren't any Sarah Lucy or Lucy Sarah Paddocks that I can see... but there is a Lucy Paddock, birth Dec 1870 Birmingham, who is quite easy to trace ???
'Sarah' may well have been just a nickname and not an official given name. Lucy is definitely a given name, 'Sarah' may be a mis-remembered 'fact'.
Can you tell me some details about Lucy Paddock?
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Possible match:
1851
HO107/2051 538 16
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Camden Street
Emma Hobbiss, head, wid, 38, Laundress
Emma, dau, 18, **plate Burnisher?
Eliza, dau, 16, Warehouse woman
Clara, dau, 14, Steel pen worker
Frederick, son, 12, Jeweller
Henry, son, 8, Errand Boy
Caroline, dau, 6, school
Hannah, dau, 4
All born Birmingham
(according to 1841, father was called Frederick, age 34 in 1841)
Can you provide any more info on Federick Hobbiss (b.abt.1807) and/or Emma Hobbiss (b.abt.1803)?
(thanks again for your wonderful info!)
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Lucy in 1881:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=22293801
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1841
HO107/1139/3 50 13
Birmingham, Warwickshire
Warstone Lane
Frederick Hobbis, 34, J Gilltoy? M
Emma, 27
Emma, 8
Eliza, 6
Clara, 4
Frederick, 3
William, 1
All born in county.
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Thank you so much for your help today - two generations in a couple of hours! :D
I understand that there are few centralised written records before about 1837 so would my next step in tracing the Hobbis/Hobbiss line be getting birth certificates of the oldest ones possible and working back from there?
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You'd indeed need a few certs to prove you are tracing the correct people.
If the 1841 is right, then you are lucky enough to have one distinctive child born just after civil registration:
Frederick Hobbis, Sep 1838 Birmingham XVI 205
First thing however would be to concentrate on Walter's marriage and birth cert, I'd say.
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Just in case we are on the right track (I can't resist searching :P )
The only Sarah Rebecca Gozzard I can see is:
Birth Sarah Rebeccah Gozzard March 1841 Birmingham
1841
HO107/1139/4 38 8
Birmingham (can't make out address)
James Gozzard, 38, ***, no (=not born in county)
Mary Gozzard, 40, no
Eliza Eldersham, 24, Dress maker, no
Ana? Eldersham, 22, Shop girl, no
William Eldersham, 17, Ap, no
James Eldersham, 17, Ap, no
Elizabeth Elsersham, 13, no
John Gozzard, 12, no
Caroline Gozzard, 7, yes
Sarah Gozzard, 3 months, yes
1851
HO107/2058 82 14
Birmingham
98 Barr? Albert?
James Gozzard, head, 50, Brass Founder, b. Staffordshire Handsworth
Mary, wife, 50, b. do.
John, son, 21, Jeweller, b. Birmingham
Caroline, dau, 16, b. do.
Rebekah, dau, 9, scholar, b. do.
Alfred, son, 7, scholar, b. do.
Mary Ann Eldersham, stepdau, unm, 25, Guard Chain Maker, b. Staffs Handsworth
Elizabeth Eldersham, stepdau, 21, ditto, b. do.
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OK - finally found them in 1871. All looking very good :D
1871
RG10/3090 29 1
Birmingham Lady Wood
34 Graham Street
Harry Holliss (to my best reading), head, 28, Jeweller, b. Birmingham
Rebecca, wife, 26, Milliner, b. do.
Harry, son, 5, b. do.
Walter, son, 4, b. do.
George, son, 1, b. do.
James Gozzard, wife's father, widower, 61*, Tool Maker, b. Staffordshire Handsworth
:) :)
*It does read 61 ::) I think he even says age 45 in 1861 ;D
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OK - finally found them in 1871. All looking very good :D
1871
RG10/3090 29 1
Birmingham Lady Wood
34 Graham Street
Harry Holliss (to my best reading), head, 28, Jeweller, b. Birmingham
Rebecca, wife, 26, Milliner, b. do.
Harry, son, 5, b. do.
Walter, son, 4, b. do.
George, son, 1, b. do.
James Gozzard, wife's father, widower, 61*, Tool Maker, b. Staffordshire Handsworth
:) :)
*It does read 61 ::) I think he even says age 45 in 1861 ;D
Wow, that's great, thank you.
So, it looks like we (i.e. you) have figured out that Harry Holliss b.abt.1843 is probably Henry Hobbiss, married to Sarah Rebeccah Gozzard, daughter of James, b. 1801, 1803, 1810 or 1816!
James doesn't want to be tracked does he?!
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This looks like Sarah Rebeccah Gozzard's death register entry
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=freebmddeath&recid=15218557&indiv=try&o_iid=019258&o_lid=019258&o_it=019258&offerid=0%3a7868%3a0
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Indeed, yes :)
I also have just found Harry in 1861 - age 18, Jeweller, lodging at Thorpe St Birmingham. He's called Hobliss this time. His sister Hannah (also Hobliss) age 14 is a servant in the same household.
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Hi again
I've just written out all the info you gathered and put it into order etc etc, and it really does make sense.
Thank you very much for your help today - I can now name my gr gr grandfather, my gr gr grandmother and her family, and my gr gr gr grandparents! :D
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:) :)
I'm afraid Lucy Paddock's side is a bit confusing.
1871
RG10/3101 33 25
Birmingham
4 Shipstone Place
James Paddock, head, 43, Bricklayer, b. Walsall
Sarah, wife, 37, Bridle Stitcher, b. do.
Sarah A, dau, 15, Folder & Sewer (something), b. do.
Mary J, dau, 13, Bridle Stitcher, b. do.
Jogn J, son, 11, scholar, b. do.
John B, son, 8, scholar, b. Birmingham
Charles, son, 5, scholar, b. do.
Alice E, dau, 2
Lucy, dau, 4m, b. Birmingham
1861
RG9/2014 136 27
Walsall Foreign, Staffordshire
339 Green Lane
James Paddock, head, 33, Bricklayer, b. Walsall
Sarah, wife, 29, Bridle Stitcher, b. do.
Sarah Ann, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
Mary Jane, dau, 3, b. do.
John James, son, 10 mo, b. do.
James Paddocks age is consistent from 1861 through 1901, and the IGI has a nice christening:
JAMES PADDOCK
06 JAN 1828 Saint Matthew, Walsall
Father EDWARD PADDOCK
Mother SARAH
Now what's strange is that I can see this family on earlier census (1841), but James' age is 3 years out ???
HO107/983/12 30 8
Walsall Foreign
Edward Paddock, 35, (can't read occupation, perhaps 'Brickle?')
Sarah, 30
Phineas, 14
James, 9
Edward, 8
Sarah, 7
John, 4
Bridget, 3
Ann, 2
Lucy, 2months
All born in county.
The really weird thing is that there is a christening for Phineas on the IGI in 1824 (=3 years out as well)
Not sure I'd put too much money on this 1841 find :P
However, these Edward & Sarah only live a few households away from James & family in 1861.
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1871
RG10/3090 29 1
Birmingham Lady Wood
34 Graham Street
Harry Holliss (to my best reading), head, 28, Jeweller, b. Birmingham
Rebecca, wife, 26, Milliner, b. do.
Harry, son, 5, b. do.
Walter, son, 4, b. do.
George, son, 1, b. do.
James Gozzard, wife's father, widower, 61*, Tool Maker, b. Staffordshire Handsworth
Hmmm this means a birth year for Rebecca at abt.1846, but it doesn't match up with the birth date of Sarah / Rebekah Gozzard of abt.1841
1841
HO107/1139/4 38 8
Birmingham (can't make out address)
James Gozzard, 38, ***, no (=not born in county)
Mary Gozzard, 40, no
Eliza Eldersham, 24, Dress maker, no
Ana? Eldersham, 22, Shop girl, no
William Eldersham, 17, Ap, no
James Eldersham, 17, Ap, no
Elizabeth Elsersham, 13, no
John Gozzard, 12, no
Caroline Gozzard, 7, yes
Sarah Gozzard, 3 months, yes
1851
HO107/2058 82 14
Birmingham
98 Barr? Albert?
James Gozzard, head, 50, Brass Founder, b. Staffordshire Handsworth
Mary, wife, 50, b. do.
John, son, 21, Jeweller, b. Birmingham
Caroline, dau, 16, b. do.
Rebekah, dau, 9, scholar, b. do.
Alfred, son, 7, scholar, b. do.
Mary Ann Eldersham, stepdau, unm, 25, Guard Chain Maker, b. Staffs Handsworth
Elizabeth Eldersham, stepdau, 21, ditto, b. do.
Odd coincidence do you think?
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I'm sure she's the same. It just doesn't look as though their maths were very good :-X
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lol, I think you're probably right - how many Sarah Rebecca Hobbis/Gozzard's can there be with those kind of coincidences? :)
Also, thanks for the Paddock info; the 1841 info is hanging by a bare thread (the parent's names, and the 'consistent' date inconsistency, but it's much appreciated :)
Cheers
Richard
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Just for completeness sake
Death Mary Gozzard March 1854 Birmingham 6d 125
1861
RG9/2130 132 3
Birmingham
Nelson Street West
James Gozzard, head, wid, 45, Stock & Die Fitter
Alfred, son, 20, ditto.
Rebecca, dau, 18, Seamstress
All born Birmingham
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:) :)
I'm afraid Lucy Paddock's side is a bit confusing.
1871
RG10/3101 33 25
Birmingham
4 Shipstone Place
James Paddock, head, 43, Bricklayer, b. Walsall
Sarah, wife, 37, Bridle Stitcher, b. do.
Sarah A, dau, 15, Folder & Sewer (something), b. do.
Mary J, dau, 13, Bridle Stitcher, b. do.
Jogn J, son, 11, scholar, b. do.
John B, son, 8, scholar, b. Birmingham
Charles, son, 5, scholar, b. do.
Alice E, dau, 2
Lucy, dau, 4m, b. Birmingham
1861
RG9/2014 136 27
Walsall Foreign, Staffordshire
339 Green Lane
James Paddock, head, 33, Bricklayer, b. Walsall
Sarah, wife, 29, Bridle Stitcher, b. do.
Sarah Ann, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
Mary Jane, dau, 3, b. do.
John James, son, 10 mo, b. do.
James Paddocks age is consistent from 1861 through 1901, and the IGI has a nice christening:
JAMES PADDOCK
06 JAN 1828 Saint Matthew, Walsall
Father EDWARD PADDOCK
Mother SARAH
Now what's strange is that I can see this family on earlier census (1841), but James' age is 3 years out ???
HO107/983/12 30 8
Walsall Foreign
Edward Paddock, 35, (can't read occupation, perhaps 'Brickle?')
Sarah, 30
Phineas, 14
James, 9
Edward, 8
Sarah, 7
John, 4
Bridget, 3
Ann, 2
Lucy, 2months
All born in county.
The really weird thing is that there is a christening for Phineas on the IGI in 1824 (=3 years out as well)
Not sure I'd put too much money on this 1841 find :P
However, these Edward & Sarah only live a few households away from James & family in 1861.
This is my family. The 1841 census is known for the altering of ages by the enumerators. Edward was my gt gt gt grandfather via Phineas b abt 1824. I have the family tree if you want help with them. Pat