RootsChat.Com
Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Lydart on Saturday 07 October 06 20:05 BST (UK)
-
My Dad was born 3 Aug 1907 ... I've found him on FreeBMD in the Sept Q for Fulham, (and have just sent for the cert from GRO) ... named as HANHAM, William Frederick.
The birth cert he had was issued in 1930, under the name of William Frederick Poplett ... father unknown, mother Caroline Hanham. I knew he was illegitimate, and the man Caroline subsequently married was Alfred Poplett ... but she married him a year after my fathers birth, and on his apprenticeship papers dated 1924, 'father' has been crossed out, and 'guardian' substituted all the way thru', guardian being named as Alfred Poplett.
A nice little roots mystery to be solved !
Lydart
-
Hi Lydart
Have you found the entry for his second birth certificate under the name Poplett. If so, have you looked at the actual entries to see if there is anything noted beside either one.
Is it possible his mother & stepfather had his birth cert changed legally after they married.
Not going as far back as you but my daughter will have the same thing for her birth registration. When she was born I was not married, so her birth was registered under my maiden name (both myself and her father were at the registration). When we subsequently married, we sent her original birth cert and our marriage cert away and had her name changed legally to her father's.
I have found both entries and there is a hand written note next to each entry referring to the other entry.
Good luck with solving your mystery
Dinie
-
Well I've now got a copy of Dad's birth cert from GRO; it gives his surname as William Frederick Poplett; born 1907, just as on the copy he had made in 1930. But why would FreeBMD record him as Hanham ? And not as Poplett ?
So was Alf Poplett actually his father ? If so, why delete 'father' all the way through apprenticeship papers in 1924 ? You'd think that between the birth in 1907 and signing the papers in 1924, he'd have had enough time to be persuaded the boy was his ... but apparently not !! He didn't even put 'step-son' ...
Anyone have any opinions on this mystery ??
Lydart
-
Re-registration of illegitimate children was introduced in 1926.
So so they couldn't do it in 1924. When a birth is re-registered the original certificate is "closed" and you get the new one. However the original index remains to show he was illegitimate at the time of birth.
Bob
-
Hi
If you look at the original registration index entry it says William Frederick P Hanham - P for Poplett? Looks like Caroline may well have been sure Alf was the father. No note of cross referencing to the later re-registration ???
Jan ;)
-
William is my grandmother's brother. She was May Victoria Poplett, born 1903. She was registered as May Poplett Hanham. Your info was helpful
-
I appreciate Lydart that you started this topic in 2006 and have now presumably got William's birth record details and certificate from the GRO.
HANHAM, WILLIAM FREDERICK POPLETT COX
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 200
There doesn't appear to be any record of re-registration under the surname of Poplett/Popplett
-
Looks like Poplett was his 3rd forename, not an alternative surname. His surname was Hanham as that was his mother's surname at the time of his birth. She was Caroline Cox, first married to Alfred Henry Hanham in 1892.
-
I see from the 1939 that William has now become Poplett presumably because his mother married Alfred Poplett.
Or did she? I can't see any marriage of an Alfred Poplett to anyone called Caroline between 1911 and 1950.
-
Intriguing !
So should my parents when they were married be using the surname Hanham .... and thus should my birth (two years after their marriage) be recorded with that surname ? And should I have subsequently married (and divorced !) using the Hanham surname ? Am I legal ? ;D ;D ;D
Very interesting !!!
And I see Jenjoburg has only been on here once .... pity, as it would be good to contact her as we are distantly related !
-
Girl Guide .... this is getting very interesting indeed !
I need to go up into the loft and find all my FH stuff to see what I've got in the way of certificates, etc.
-
Hhmmm, I have found a William Poplett with the birth date that you gave on the 1939 Register.
The 'parents' are listed as Alfred and Florence Poplett. There is this marriage for what I assume is the correct couple:-
Marriages Dec 1919
Poplett Alfred Poulter Brentford 3a 398
Poulter Florence Poplett Brentford 3a 398
Going by the birth date for Florence, this looks to be most likely for her birth registration
POULTER, FLORENCE EDITH EMILY GINNER
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 467
This is the only one that comes up for Alfred in the relevant time frame for his birth date as per the 1939
POPLETT, ALFRED HARMAN
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 190
-
I checked on FreeBMD and have this:
September 1908 (marriages)
HANHAM Caroline Susan A Fulham 1a 756
POPLETT Alfred Fulham 1a 756
I haven't checked the 1939 .....
-
I just thought I would look at the 1911 census and the below is what I have found for a William Poplett.
Family living at 15 Coningham R S Bush, Hammersmith, London & Middlesex
Residents are Alfred and Carrie Poplett are the parents. The children are given as George Poplett 1893, Nellie Hanham 1894 (step-daughter), Alfred Poplett (1895), May Poplett (1904), Rose Poplett (1906) and William Poplett (1908).
Although May is down as Poplett her birth registration is
HANHAM, MAY POPLETT COX
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 205
There doesn't appear to be a birth record for Nellie.
George???
POPLETT, GEORGE ALFRED HARMAN
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 226
Looks as if Caroline is Alfred's second wife, this appears to be his first
Marriages Dec 1891
Harman Agnes Fulham 1a 518
Poplett Alfred Fulham 1a 518
The original of the 1911 claims marriage of 8 years and six children, so someone taking liberties with the truth somewhere.
-
I looked at the 1901 census and Alfred is a widower living with what appears to be his uncle.
Registration district Fulham
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 40
Folio 167
Page 59
Death of Agnes
Deaths Sep 1899
Poplett Agnes 32 Fulham 1a 152
-
Caroline Susan Ann Cox married Alfred Henry Hanham at St Luke's Shepherds Bush on 17 April 1892.
-
Alfred Henry Hanham died 1900.
-
So is this Caroline's death?
Deaths Mar 1922
Poplett Caroline S A 51 Kensington 1a 291
Gives a birth year of 1871.
-
I have the information that you have. Rose, May's sister was born on 13 April 1905 and registered as Poplett, although Alfred and Caroline didn't marry until 1908. May married Edward Thomas Kirkham[born Kirkum] in 1902 but was 'taken in' and brought up by Albert George Smith and his wife, Fanny. Presumably because his purported father was here, in South Africa from 1899 to 1902!
-
Jenjoburg - I see that you are currently online. Would you like to add any information that you have on the Poplett family?
-
I can give you information on May and Rose's family, although I didn't know Rose very well. May died in 1986 in Hammersmith. She and Edward married in 1923 and had 3 daughters. Doris Beatrice Rose, born 1924/died 1987 who was my mother. Winifred May 1927/2013 and Margaret Rose 1933/1995.
I can give you further information about their marriages. As far as I'm aware all but one of their children are still alive.
-
So is this Caroline's death?
Deaths Mar 1922
Poplett Caroline S A 51 Kensington 1a 291
Gives a birth year of 1871.
Caroline was 22 when she married Alfred Hanham in 1892, so looks right, but didn't Alfred Poplett marry Florence Poulter in 1919? Or am I confused?
added
I am confused. It was Alfred son of Alfred who married Florence, he was 25 in 1919, therefore born abt 1894
-
Well that's what I found. If anyone has access to Ancestry perhaps that 1919 marriage can tell us anything. That's if there is an actual certificate to see.
-
If Agnes Poplett died in 1899 and Caroline's first husband died in 1900, why did they wait until 1908 to marry, after having 2 children?
1919 marriage record is on Ancestry. both are age 25, Alfred s/o Alfred
-
Hhmmm, I have found a William Poplett with the birth date that you gave on the 1939 Register.
The 'parents' are listed as Alfred and Florence Poplett. There is this marriage for what I assume is the correct couple:-
Marriages Dec 1919
Poplett Alfred Poulter Brentford 3a 398
Poulter Florence Poplett Brentford 3a 398
Going by the birth date for Florence, this looks to be most likely for her birth registration
POULTER, FLORENCE EDITH EMILY GINNER
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 467
This is the only one that comes up for Alfred in the relevant time frame for his birth date as per the 1939
POPLETT, ALFRED HARMAN
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 190
This Alfred is William Frederick's stepbrother (or half brother if Alfred Poplett snr is WF's father)
-
Ah right, I've just clicked what the relationship is in the 1939 Register. Alfred and William are brothers??
-
Ah right, I've just clicked what the relationship is in the 1939 Register. Alfred and William are brothers??
Different mothers
Alfred is Agnes nee Harman's
William is Caroline nee Cox widow of Alfred Hanham's
Too many Alfreds and Hanham and Harman so similar
-
Jenjoburg good to see your reply. I believe Lydart will be happy to make contact with you.
-
Thanks, Girl Guide. I've emailed her.
-
I'm now in email contact with jenjoburg ! I think we must be second cousins. How delicious !!
There is such a lot to take in, and I know some of the info you kind people have put up, is inaccurate ... so I need to climb into my loft and find the FH files !! One trouble of having only a few Christian names in one family ! Almost as bad as my other searches for John and Mary Williams in South Wales !!