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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Agnetta on Saturday 28 October 06 06:31 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if there is more than one Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney? Is part of Ballymoney in Co Derry? Trying to find who David Rosborough married in 1820 in a Presbyterian church.Agnetta
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Yes Agnetta, there are several Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney and lots just outside.
1st Ballymoney, 2nd Ballymoney (Trinity- started as a Seceder church) & 3rd Ballymoney (St. James'-once known as 2nd Ballymoney but a split from 1st in 1834, so not the correct church). Also Ballymoney Reformed Presbyterian on Charlotte St.
Nearby (just from memory)- Mosside, Toberkeigh (1830), Roseyards (also known as Derrykeighan), Armoy, Drumreagh, Benvarden (don't think it goes back far enough), Dervock (also known as Derrykeighan), Dunloy (too recent), Finvoy, 1st Kilraught, Rasharkin (only started 1830).
I see the IGI has 3 entries listing David Rosborough m.1820 Ballymoney to Elizabeth. Unfortunately none of the records give the source of this information. David is listed as being born at Drumart but usually (although not always) the marriage would have taken place at the bride's church.
P.S. name often spelt Roxborough, Roxborrow, Rosborrow, etc.
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Aghadowey - if,for the sake of argument,they both lived in Drumart,which of these Churches would have been nearest.( knowing the Irish they wouldn't NECCESSARILY have gone to the nearest,but for the moment we'll assume that they did!) He is the only David I can find that fits the time frame.I know they ended up at Derryard,near Dungiven,from where their daughter Mary Ann Rosborough married Alexander Gibson in 1856 (Bovevagh Pres Church) If I could find Elizabeths surname,I might be able to make some progress,through Dungiven or Bovevagh deaths. Thanks for all this "church"info. Agnetta.
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I am researching the surname RASBERRY. I have seen it spelled numerous ways, and I wonder if it is a derivative of ROSBOROUGH. Does anyone know?
Thanks,
Cindy
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I am researching the surname RASBERRY. I have seen it spelled numerous ways, and I wonder if it is a derivative of ROSBOROUGH. Does anyone know?
Thanks,
Cindy
My brother, a Rosborough, recently completed 37 marker Y-DNA testing. His matches include the surnames Roxburgh, Rosebeary, Roseburg, and Rossborough. It's certainly possible that Rasberry is yet another variation.
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Yes Agnetta, there are several Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney and lots just outside.
1st Ballymoney, 2nd Ballymoney (Trinity- started as a Seceder church) & 3rd Ballymoney (St. James'-once known as 2nd Ballymoney but a split from 1st in 1834, so not the correct church). Also Ballymoney Reformed Presbyterian on Charlotte St.
Nearby (just from memory)- Mosside, Toberkeigh (1830), Roseyards (also known as Derrykeighan), Armoy, Drumreagh, Benvarden (don't think it goes back far enough), Dervock (also known as Derrykeighan), Dunloy (too recent), Finvoy, 1st Kilraught, Rasharkin (only started 1830).
I see the IGI has 3 entries listing David Rosborough m.1820 Ballymoney to Elizabeth. Unfortunately none of the records give the source of this information. David is listed as being born at Drumart but usually (although not always) the marriage would have taken place at the bride's church.
P.S. name often spelt Roxborough, Roxborrow, Rosborrow, etc.
Hello, I came across this whilst having yet another frustrating look for info on my McMeekin/Cochrane ancestors from Rasharkin. If the Presbyterian church in Rasharkin only started in 1830, do you know where people like my ancestors have been attending prior to this? From the 1851 census they were in Killydonnelly and Killycreen townlands. I always get confused between Presbyterian and Church of Ireland! :-\
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Rasharkin Presbyterian church was probably in existence long before 1830. Its just that it doesn’t have any records earlier than that. That’s not uncommon in Ireland. Few churches have records for the 1700s. There are only 6 or 7 Presbyterian churches in the whole of Co. Antrim with pre 1800 records. That’s out of probably 150 churches.
The nearest Presbyterian church to Rasharkin is probably Killymurris. It was founded in 1796, as an overflow church for Clough (which was established in the 1600s). However it’s Minister didn’t keep any baptism or marriage records till 1845. So a similar story.
Presbyterian is the main denomination in Scotland, and was brought to Ireland by Scots settlers. Church of Ireland is the Church of England, in Ireland. Sometimes referred to as Episcopalian.
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Rasharkin Presbyterian church was probably in existence long before 1830. Its just that it doesn’t have any records earlier than that. That’s not uncommon in Ireland. Few churches have records for the 1700s. There are only 6 or 7 Presbyterian churches in the whole of Co. Antrim with pre 1800 records. That’s out of probably 150 churches.
The nearest Presbyterian church to Rasharkin is probably Killymurris. It was founded in 1796, as an overflow church for Clough (which was established in the 1600s). However it’s Minister didn’t keep any baptism or marriage records till 1845. So a similar story.
Presbyterian is the main denomination in Scotland, and was brought to Ireland by Scots settlers. Church of Ireland is the Church of England, in Ireland. Sometimes referred to as Episcopalian.
Thanks for clarifying that Elwyn, knew Scotland was Presby, but wasn't sure if the Scots settled in Ireland were that, or whether the COI was the "replacement" :) Were the 18th & 19th century ministers in Ireland like the Anglican ones I've read about in England? Ie often gentlemen but not heirs, who saw the church as a cushy living? If so, it would account for their slack record-keeping! ;)
My sister said is there any site with photos of the gravestones etc? I explained to her that there are sites with inscriptions recorded, and that some people take pics, but our ancestors were shoemakers and linen weavers, so unlikely to have the funds for headstones!
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Presbyterian ministers did keep records (some better than others of course) but not all survive. Education was very important to Ulster Scots and many ministers in here were the driving force to start local schools.
Rasharkin Presbyterian Church was founded in 1830 which is why you will not find earlier records.
Based on the location of Killydonnelly townland - https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/kilconway/rasharkin/killydonnelly/ - the closest earlier Presbyterian church was probably Killymurris, which goes back to 1795 (which is not in the middle of a field at the end of the Duneany Road as shown on Google maps but slightly further south on the Dunminning Road.)
Killymurris is listed under Rasharkin in PRONI Guide to Church Records but baptisms start 1862 and marriages 1855 (after civil registration)-
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide_to_church_records.pdf
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Much obliged to Aghadowey for the history of Rasharkin Presbyterian Church. Presbyterian Ministers were not usually wealthy second sons seeking an easy living as some Church of Ireland and Church of England Ministers may have been. They were mostly sincere, well educated men (no women then of course) who believed in their faith. They normally served a congregation for their entire career (in contrast to other denominations which move their Ministers around every so often). And you were only selected if the congregation approved of you. For all that, there were occasionally problems. According to a booklet giving it’s history, Killymurris’s 1st Minister only lasted 4 or 5 years and was dismissed for drunkenness. His successor was better regarded and lasted for around 40 years but was noted for his laid back approach and, as has been commented on, neither of these two gentlemen kept any baptism or marriage records. In contrast, a couple of miles away, Clough Presbyterian did keep such records but unfortunately they were lost in a fire in the 1860s. Antrim 1st Presbyterian has excellent baptism & marriage records from the late 1600s. So the picture is mixed. Some did keep records, some didn’t and some records have been lost due to water damage, fire and negligence.
Presbyterians generally don’t keep burial records and so there are normally no burial registers. (Certainly Rasharkin doesn’t have one). Only wealthier folk could afford a gravestone so the majority of the population were buried in graves with no stone. The family would have known where the plot was but with the passage of time that information was often lost. I agree with you that most shoemakers and weavers would not have a gravestone.
Some gravestones are photographed, but there isn’t quite the same enthusiasm for that as in other countries. Findagrave has a few graves in Rasharkin Presbyterian which have been photographed but I don’t think the whole graveyard is on-line anywhere yet. https://www.findagrave.com
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Many Presbyterian churches didn't have burying ground (or in many cases the burials started many years after the church was built). Since Presbyterians had to pay tithes to the Established Church (State church, i.e. Church of Ireland) they were entitled to burial in the Parish ground which is why it's quite common to find Presbyterian's buried there. The Church of Ireland usually did keep a burial register but whether other denominations were included in it or it survives would be another matter. Many COI records sent to Dublin for 'safekeeping' were destroyed.
There may be a graveyard map for a Presbyterian burying-ground which would likely be in local custody. There should be a church committee to look after the graveyard (often the property committee) but how detailed and when it would have been mapped out is another matter.
In the 1940s, I think it was, the minister of Banagher Presbyterian Church decided to get the ground mapped. So, on a lovely Easter Sabbath, with a really good portion of the congregation in front of him, it was announced that everyone was to go stand on their plot after the service and stay there until appointed people had recorded them. Sounds fairly straightforward but there were numerous people standing in the same unmarked plot thinking it was their family's as well as others who hadn't a clue were their relatives were buried!
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Thanks Elwyn and Aghadowey!
Some interesting stuff there, chuckled a bit at the Banagher bloopers!
I just wish I was still living in the UK, I'd have been over to Co. Antrim by now. I hope to move back eventually, although I'm a Kiwi-Aussie I'm a shameless Anglophile!