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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kd on Wednesday 15 November 06 21:18 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Please help i am at my wits end.
I have just received a copy of a birth certificate for my G Grandfather.
Arthur Coleman born 1888 Lye Stourbridge it says mother Ann Coleman Formerly Harley Father Thomas Coleman.
I have found Thomas and Ann on the 1871 census although they are listed as Thomas Colman and Anne, they have 2 children Phillip born abt 1865 Wolverhampton and Harriett born abt 1867 Stourbridge living in Bilston.
I have them on census records up to 1901 although the name Coleman is spelt differently on all records, and it says wife on all of the images.
Try as i might i can find no marriage for Thomas and Ann, do you think it is possible that they did not marry?
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
kd
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Hi
This could be them, marriage as found on Freereg.org.uk
St. Mary's, Wolverhampton 12/6/1864
Groom: Thomas Poleman of FULL age, address Falkland street, Iron-plate worker, father Philip deceased
Bride: Nancy Harley
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oops sorry
Bride: Nancy Harley, age 19, address Falkland Street, father Thomas deceased.
Note: the mis-spelling of Coleman with 'P' and Nancy was often abbreviated to Ann or Annie
More than likely to be them, but no guarantee
Cheers
Graham
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And.....
Witnesses to the marriage are:
Lydia Taylor and Harriet Taylor
Good luck with your research, Graham
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Hi
Thank you i shall look into it cant figure out why the name change.
kd
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Hello
I think i have set myself another challenge here.
I have gone through the census records only to find Philip Coalmen and wife Mary with daughter Rosana in 1841, then in 1851 Mary is Poleman and a widow with 4 children Rosanna, Thomas, Sarah and Mary Ann.
In 1861 she is Paleman with another child John.
In 1871 she is Polman with just Mary and John with her
In 1881 she is Poleman lodging with the Scott family
I think i have found a death for Mary Poleman in 1885 age 70 and also a death for a Mary ann age 36 in 1884.
I have searched for Thomas Poleman in varients but have found nothing.
I'm sorry if i am being boring but this giving me headaches.
kd
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I think you will find that the marriage details that I sent you is the one.
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Hi
Thank you
The only marriage i can find is for Thomas Poleman and Mary Harley in Apr-May-Jun 1864 6b 690
kd
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Hi kd
It just may be that the name has been mis-transcribed as 'Mary' - I still think it's the same marriage I sent you (the date and place is spot on) and bride Nancy Harley is your Ann.
As for the other info - I think you are going just a little bit too fast. What is it you want to find? I assume you are trying to find the parents of Thomas (as his father is Philip on the Marriage record I sent you).
Let me know exactly what you want to find out and I'll try to help. Can't promise anything but will try.
Cheers
Graham
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Hi Graham,
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply to me.
Let me try and explain.
My Grandmother was Mary Ann Knowles formerly Coleman born 1908 her parents were Arthur Coleman and Catherine Taylor they were married 1908.
They had 3 children of which my grandmother was the only surviving child , Arthur and Catherine had both died by the time my grandmother was 11 years old and she knew nothing of the family.
Because Thomas and Ann had a big family i cannot understand why my grandmother had no knowledge of anyone from the Coleman side of the family.
You are right in saying that i am trying to find Thomas' parents, i am also trying to find anything out about the Harley side.
Sorry if seem to be going a little too fast.
kd
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Hi again
No problem! I think the key to this is to try and find out what happened to Thomas and Ann's children. Do you have all the Childrens names and dates of birth? Have you looked on any other censuses apart from the 1871 and 1901?
Regards, Graham
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Hi Graham,
This is the Census info i have
1871
Thomas Colman age 28
Anne age 26
Phillip age 6
Harriett age 4
Living 3 Price street Bilston
1881
Thomas Collman age 38
Nancy age 37
Phillip age 16
Annie age 14(I presume to be Harriett)
Frederick age 11
Lydia
John Thomas age 4
Samuel age 3
Living Engine Lane Lye
1891
Thomas Coleman age 47
Ann age 47
Harriett age 24
John T age 14
Samuel age 12
Lydia age 10
Charles age 7
Mary A age 5
Arther age 3
Living Rufford Street Lye
1901
Thomas Coleman age 59
Ann age 56
Samuel age 22
Charlie age 19
Mary age 16
Arthur age 13
living Chapel Street Lye.
I have a copy of Arthurs birth and marriage cert and a copy of Lydias marriage cert. Thomas was alive on Lydias marriage cert and deceased on Arthurs, I have searched free bmd and found a death for Thomas Coleman in 1907.
Lydia married John Perry in 1900 and i have found Lydia on the 1901 census living with Johns family in Vicarage Road Lye they have a daughter Sarah A age 1 month.
Apart from this i know nothing.
kd
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Hi kd
I also found the following marriages on FREEBMD all registered Stourbridge:
Harriet Coleman, JUN quarter 1891 (possibly married a Grove or a Millward)
John T (thomas?) Coleman, SEP quarter 1899 (possible wife Hamblett or Pardoe)
Samuel Coleman, SEP qaurter 1908 (possibly married Lloyd or Taylor)
There are some other Coleman marriages for Charles but less sure which might be the right one.
Would be good to find Frederick and Philip.
Do you know when Thomas's wife Ann (or Nancy) died?
I'll keep looking but may take some time.
Regards
Graham
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Hi Graham,
I think i have found a marriage for Philip in MAR quarter 1887 to Mary J Sampson in Pershore
on the 1891 census Philip is living in South Claines Worcs with wife Mary J and 2 sons Frederick and Samuel.
In 1901 Mary is a widow with 4 children.
I can find no death for Philip or Ann.
Thanks for all the help
kd
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Hi kd
Not sure if you have the right marriage for Philip Coleman, the birthplace of Staffordshire is a bit vague, although sons name Frederick and Samuel could might suggest it is correct.
I think also I found (on ancestry.co.uk) Frederick - on 1901 census I found a Frederick Coleman born Belstone, Staffs which I think is Bilston married to a Minnie, census district Aston
His marriage I found on freebmd.rootsweb.com to Minnie Burrows JUN quarter 1891, registered Aston
Still working on Philip Coleman married to Ann Harley - any idea where Philip or the Colemans might originate from?
Regards, Graham
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Hi Graham,
I'm a bit confused with your last message.
Philip didn't marry Ann Harley, Thomas did Philip was their son.
The only information as to where they come from is census records.
I know i am probably a bit vague but i really know nothing of the family.
Thank you so much for helping me, it is very much appreciated, and i know its like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I can see i am going to have to buy some certs to make sure they are all correct.
Regards Kaye
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Hi Kaye
Sorry about my last message, oops!! my mistake!!!
What I should have said is, do you have any info on Thomas's father, Philip and who he might have married or where they might have lived?
Sometimes it is difficult but with time the jigsaw will fit together. I agree, the certs will definitely help and sometimes they provide other clues.
If I can be of more help please let me know.
Graham
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Hi Graham,
Sorry i don't know where Philip came from or who he married.
The only Philip Coleman Spelt Coalmen i could find was in 1841 as i said in a previuos posting, unfortunately it doesn't say where he was from but his wife Mary was down as Poleman on later census i think.
Perhaps they will remain a mystery and i will never find out.
Thank you once again for all the help you have given me.
Regards
Kaye
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Hi Kaye
No problem. It looks like you are on the right track with Philip and Mary - I have looked but haven't found anything else yet relating to Philip (Thomas's father).
Good luck with your research.
Graham
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This is a carry on from my last post.
I have now found the marriage of Philip Polman and Mary
Marriages Dec 1839
FLYNN Mary Wellington S. 18 287
POLMAN Philip Wellington S. 18 287
I havent got the marriage certificate, but checking childrens names on GRO have found them with Mothers name FLINN so it seems to be the correct marriage.
My next problem is i have found a burial for POLMAN Philip 40 1 Feb 1848 Stafford Street J.Osmond Dakeyne from Wolverhampton Parish Registers.
I still have no idea why the name change, but it seems to change with the birth of Harriet in 1867
Can anyone find a death registered for Philip, i have searched with varients of Polman and Colman but cannot find anything.
I presume there would have to have been a death certificate for burial but am not sure.
Thanks
kd