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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: queenswood 1 on Wednesday 22 November 06 20:21 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace Rose Ida Dick born c 1875- she married John Dick in 1894 and they had a daughter Euphemia Olive Dick in 1895. John Dick was a corporal in the Royal Artillery, born c 1867 and his father was also John Dick - a worker in steel. Rose and John possibly had a second daughter, Elizabeth Ida Dick, in 1897, but I cannot find John and Rose Dick with their children in 1901. John may have been away in the Boer war and I wondered if anyone can trace Rose and her children in 1901 in Scotland. Help please!!
I see that there are 2 euphemia dick on the 1901 scottsh census and also rose dick - bot of whom fit the age category - can anyone give me some details on these please.
By 1902, Rose is back in Hampshire - her home county - and has given birth to a son by Sept 1902.
Many thanks
Caroline
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HI
We have been looking into my husbands grandad family he was told that he was in a childrens home
his name was john henry norman Dick known as norman we traced his birth an his mother was rose ida dick nee Henning of c pokesdown who died at 32 she seemed to have married twice once to a john dick and normans dad robert dick
why he was put in a childrens home we dont know he seemed to have a brother and some sisters
i see you have been checking rose out did you find out anything
jac
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Welcome to Rootschat
I am not connected to this family but thought I would take a look. The 1901 Scottish census seems to fit in with your theory that Rose married twice. Or Robert used both names, Robert and John although occupations are different
1901 Scotland
64 Laidlaw Street Bothwell
Robert Dick 31 coal miner brusher born Larkhall Lanarkshire
Rose Dick 26 born England
Euphemia Dick 5 born England
Rose Dick 4 England
Elizabeth Dick 3 England
Robert Dick 9 months born Larkhall
On same page FreeBMD
Marriages Dec 1/4 1894
John Dick and Rose Ida Henning reg district I. Wight vol 2b page 1269
Do you have the family in the 1911 census?
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Welcome to Rootschat.
64 Laidlaw Street, B othwell. Lanarkshire in 1901
Robert Dick 31 Born 1870 Larkhall. Lanarkshire. Coal-Miner Brusher.
Rose Dick 26 Born 1875 England.
Euphemia Dick 5 Born 1896 England.
Rose Dick 4 Born 1897 England.
Elizabeth Dick 3 Born 1898 England.
Robert Dick 9 months. Born 1900 Larkhall. Lanarkshire.
Sandra
Oops - snap ;D
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Where was Euphemia Olive Dick born in 1895 ? Can see one registered in Hampshire June 1895 - Euphemia Olive Dick - Farnham 2a 129 ?
Sandra
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hi
i think that robert dick was my husbands great grandad his wife rose ida henning living in chrischurch untill she died only 32 john henry norman dick known as norman we have been told came from a childrens home
dont know what happened
jacqui
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Euphemia looks correct and there is a Rose Dick birth in Hartley W (Witney) - June 1896
Rose Dick Hartley W. 2c 186
and September 1897 - Elizabeth Ida Fareham 2b 559
John Dick aged 31 died and was redgistered Eastbourne 2b 64 in September 1899.
so it looks like the correct family.
Sandra
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Unfortunately cannot give the 1911 UK Census but Robert did remarry after the death of Rose in March 1907 (Rose Ida Dick aged 32 - Christchurch 2b 543 ) and all the children are with Robert and his new wife. ( Norman was with the family in Pokesdown. Bournemouth at that stage)
Sandra
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Births Dec 1/4 1905
John Harry N Dick registration district Christchurch vol 2b page 61
Death
Norman Harry J Dick age 69
Birth 3 Nov 1905
Registered Jun 1/4 1975 at Richmond upon Thames
Greater London
vol 14 page -1978
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This could be young Robert with his parents in 1870. Hamilton and Larkhall are only 4/5 miles apart. Having a mother Euphemia may indicate it is your Robert but to be absolutely sure you would need the marriage cert of Robert and Rose to get their father's names and occupations.
Home Farm Colliery Hamilton Lanarkshire
John Dick 31 Firesman born Bothwell
Euphamia Dick 27 Bothwell
Henry Dick 9 Bothwell
William Dick 6 Bothwell
John Dick 3 bothwell
Robert Dick 1 Hamilton
Margaret Brand 36 visitor Muirkirk Ayrshire
Janet Wright 15 visitor Muirkirk
Samuel Sine 40 Lodger Glasgow
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I wonder if this is your Rose Ida but registered with different first name. The year and place look good.
Birth
Annie Rose Henning
RegisteredDec 1/4 1875
Registration district - Isle of Wight -Hampshire
vol - 2b page 522
See post #18 by queenswood1 so more likely this birth reg
Births Jun 1874
Rosa Georgina Henning Christchurch vol 2b page 613
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1891 RG12 piece 906 folio 16 page 26
2 Olive Cottage Pokesdown
John Fall 39 bricklayer Muscliffe Hampshire
Sarah Fall 40 Verwood Dorset
Jessica L M Fall 7
Olive H Fall 5
Willie Fall 4
Herbert Henning 20 stepson
Rose Henning 16 stepdaughter
All children born Pokesdown Hampshire
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This is the only census where Rose is shown with her father. her mother is already remarried in 1881
1871
RG10 piece 1176 folio 20 page 33
Pokesdown Christchurch
Ira Henning 28 ag lab Verwood dorset
Sarah Henning 23Verwood
Sarah Henning 5 Verwood
Herbert Henning 1 Pokesdown
William Bailey 25 lodger Crambourne Dorset
Living next door is John Fall age 19 with his parents who Sarah Hennings marries after the death of Ira
Deaths Mar 1/4 1877
Ira Henning age 35 Fareham vol 2b page 338
So Rose was 2 when her dad died.
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Boscombe Fall Road Pokesdown
John Fall 30 bricklayer Verwood Dorset
Sarah Fall 30
Herbert Henning 11 Pokesdown
Albert Henning 8 Pokesdown
Rosa Georgeina Henning 6 Pokesdown
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Marriages Dec 1/4 1863
Sarah Anne Bailey
Ira Henning
Wimbourne Dorset vol 5a page 619
So the lodger William Bailey living with Ira and Sarah in 1871 is possibly Sarah's brother.
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1881
Ferniegair Hamilton lanarkshire
John Dick 44 coal miner Bothwell
Euphemia Dick 39 Bothwell
Henry Dick 19 colliery fireman Bothwell
William Dick 16 coal miner Bothwell
John Dick 14 Coal miner Bothwell
Robert Dick 10 Bothwell
David Dick 6 hamilton
Elizabeth Dick 3 Hamilton
Euphemia Dick 10 months Hamilton
So did Rose Ida marry one brother then take up with the other? Do you have any of the other
children's birth certificates?
1891
Carlisle Road Hamilton
John Dick 52 coal miner
Euphemia Dick 49
Robert Dick 21 coal miner
David Dick 16 coal miner
Elizabeth Dick 13 coal miner
Euphemia Dick 10
John has left home.
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There is a John Dick born 1870 at Airdrie living on Jersey with a Maria Dick supposedly married 7 years but I can't find a marriage c1904.
This John is a soldier.
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From other people's family tree info, they have Robert's death in 1915/WW1 - see www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/731295/DICK,%20ROBERT This Robert is showing as having enlisted in Bournemouth.
If this is the correct death for Robert Dick, might explain why young Norman, at the young age of 10, may have ended up in care?
Monica
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Dear Everyone- this is indeed a very complex family situation for everyone involved and I have done considerable research since my initial posting in 2006. Rose Georgina Henning was born to Sarah and Ira in 1874- her father Ira died in 1877 and her mother Sarah remarried John Fall in 1879. They lived their lives in Pokesdown. Rose is on 1891 as stapdaughter to John Fall with her brother Herbert and step siblings Jessica, Olive and Willie. In 1894 Rose Ida Henning married John Dick on the Isle of Wight- I have the marriage cert and can confirm this is the same person as Rose Gergina Henning as the witnesses are family members- quite why she changed her midle name from Georgina to Ida I do not know unless it was an attempt to acknowledge her late father Ira. Rose's address at the marriage was the same as that of her married sister Kate varney (nee Henning) at Inglestone Terrace West Cowes. John Dick was aged 27 a Corporal in the Royal Artillery-North Camp Farnborough.. Daughter Euphemia Olive Dick was born at Fernhall Hospital Aldershot on 24th May 1895. Daughter Rose Dick was born in 1896 at Hartley Wintney and daughter Elizabeth was born in 1897 at Fareham. John Dick died in 1899 aged 31 -on Scottish Register Service and War Returns (Boer War?) and Rose married John's brother Robert on 31st July 1899 in Glasgow. On 27th June 1900 Rose and Robert had son Robert Dick at Grey Street Larkhall Lanarkshire and the family are still in Lanarkshire in 1901 at 64 Paislow street with Roses's 3 children from first marriage and son Robert aged 9 months. They clearly moved back to Pokesdown after the 1901 Census to be near to Rose's mother and stepfather and in 1902 son John Leslie Dick was born - and also died - in Sept Q 1902 in Christchurch. daughter Olive May was born to them Sept Q 1903 Christchurch Reg and son John Harry Norman Dick in Dec Q Christchurch Reg. Rose Ida Dick died on 3rd jan 1907 at Hayford, Wickham Road, Pokesdown (Cancer of Uterus) aged 32.
Rose's widowed husband Robert then remarried to Ellen Edwards (prev married to Francis James Ford in Sep 1896 Bristol). If you look at the 1911 Census you will see Robert Dick and his wife Lily (Ellen) at 18 Wickham Road Pokesdown with children Euphemia (15) Ida (13) Robert (10) Olive (7), Normie (5) together with step children William Ford (9) and Beatrice (6).
I do not know what info you have regarding Norman being in an orphanage so I would be interested to hear what details you have - certainly Rose's family were very tight knit and supportive when her mother married into the Fall family- there were a lot of them in the Pokesdown locality and remained in the Hampshire/Dorset conurbation through to the mid 1960s and beyond.
Hope all this helps and look forward to hearing back on the 'orphanage' question.
All I would say is that John Fall and Sarah had already taken in one 'grandchild' to raise as their own so they may have felt that having already brought up a large family of children and stepchildren that they may not have been able to cope with much more.
Looking forward to hearing back from you all! Hope this helps- please contact me if you need more info- I have more files but will not post anymore unless you ask!
Caroline :)
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Dear Caroline
Thank you very much for all your information, it is very helpful. We are going to try and find out some more information about Norman from his daughter. I will let you know if we find out anymore information.
Once again thank you for your help.
Kind Regards
Jacqueline Tamplin
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You are very welcome! As I said, it is quite a complex family with a lot of issues! I would also welcome the info that you have regarding the death of Robert Dick in 1915 as I do not have that- I guess that Norman would have been about 10 when his father died - left with his stepmother- this story is becoming very sad :(
Another twist - but maybe not related- is that Norman's half sister Euphemia Olive Dick married James H Edwards on 7th April 1923 in Portsmouth and the witness was her sister Elizabeth(born 1897)- you will see from my notes that Robert Dick married Ellen Edwards (formerly married to Francis Ford in Bristol) after the death of Rose Ida Dick (Henning) - is it possible (or just coincidence) James H Edwards was part of Ellen Edwards family? Both Bristol and Portsmouth have navy bases and the Dick family were clearly in the Army- so there is also a military link- maybe worth looking at - at a later date!
You may just have opened a can of worms!!!! Pleased to help- do keep in touch!
Caroline :)
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I am still following this thread. :)
Birth reg of Ellen Kate Edwards
Births Sep 1880
Ellen Kate Edwards Wells (Somerset) 5c/527
The only marriage I could find for a Francis James Ford to an Edwards Sept 1/4 1896 was in Barton Regis Gloucestershire to Ellen Elizabeth Edwards. Is this the correct one? Do you have them on the 1901 census?
Strictly speaking Lily/Ellen should have married under her former married name of Ford when marrying Robert.
There are two children's births registered with the surname Dick, mother's maiden name Edwards in ChCh. Dec 1/4 1911 and Sept 1/4 1918. If the death of Robert Dick in 1915 is the husband of Lily/Ellen then he can't be the father of the child born 1918. It would be stretching things a bit if there was another male Dick married to an Edwards in the ChCh area?
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Hi - have just read your most recent posting- i have the same marriage as you have found ie 1896 Ellen Elizabeth Edawrds to Francis james Ford Sep Q Barton Regis 6a 295. However, I have not had the chance to investigate this line and so I have not looked for them in 1901 nor have I looked for the death of Francis James Ford. i would also be interested to know the age of the Robert Dick that is quoted in 1915 as I have minimal information. When his stepdaughter euphemia Olive dick married in 1923 - I have the cert and it shows her father as John Dick (deceased) Paymaster- he died in 1899 per my records.
I also have not investigated any further children born to Robert and Ellen after 1911 so will check those out on BMD.
It is a branch of my husband's tree which is extremely complicated!
I also have the marriage cert for John Dick and Rose Ida Hennings on 24th Nov 1894 at St James Chapel Newport on the Isle of Wight (Euphemia's parents)- the witnesses were Henry Samuel Varney and Faney (?) Varney- Henry samuel Varney was the brother of William George Varney who married Kate Hennings in 1891 on the Isle of wight (Rose Ida's sister) - at the moment I cannot find a birth for Faney Varney or a marraige of Henry Samuel Varney to Faney - any ideas????
Said it was complex!
Caroline
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Faney could be Fanny but she needn't necessarily be Henry's wife, she could be a sister or cousin etc.
Also her registered birth name may be Frances?
There are two births of a Henry Samuel Varney anytime anywhere in FreeBMD. Both on the IOW 1862 and 1874. However the Henry born 1862 appears to die in 1862 which would explain why I can only find one of them on the 1881 census.
Births Dec 1862
Henry Samuel Varney I Wight vol 2b page 481
1874 Henry Samuel varney I. Wight 2b/532
1881 RG11/117/89/12
Cowes IOW
William G. Varney 40 mariner
Martha Varney 35
William G. Varney 13
John S. Varney 11
Martha Varney 8
Henry Varney 5
Mary J. Varney 2
All born Cowes
Still at home with his Mum in 1901
RG13/1017/119/1
Ingelstone Terrace Granville Road Cowes
Martha Varney 56 Head married
Henry S Varney 25 house painter
Mary Varney 12
Rose Varney 10
Susan Varney 19
Albert E Caws 2 months grandson
On same page is son William G Varney 33, occupation whitesmith born IOW. His wife Kate 33 born Pokesdown and their children Bertram 9 and Martha 3.born Cowes
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He marries.
Marriages Mar 1/4 1910
Ethel Mary H[A_]RRINGTON
Henry Samuel Varney
I. Wight 2b/1065
Their daughter
Births Jun 1/4 1910
Minnie Margaret Varney I. Wight 2b/575
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Robert Dick
Born Dalserf Lanarkshire
Died 25 Sep 1915
Location France & Flanders
Enlisted at Bournemouth Hants
Rank - Private
Regiment - Highland Light Infantry
Battalion - 12th (Service) Battalion
Number - 1604
Type of casualty - Killed in action
Theatre of War - Western European Theatre
Shouldn't his death be on the GRO records? There is only this one anywhere near the correct age but still has a birth date c1877 not 1870 and it is registered in the previous year to the record above.
Deaths Dec 1/4 1914
Robert Dick age 37 Alverstoke 2b/700
There is this service death which is a better match for the GRO registered death date of 1914
Robert Dick
Rank -Act Ch ERA 2nd
Born 13 Oct 1876 at Burnfoot Hill, Ayr, Scotland
Branch of Service -Royal Navy
Cause of Death - Died from disease
Official Number Port Division: 270666. (Po)
Died 9 Oct 1914
Ship or Unit - HMS Victory
Location of Grave - 21 15
Cemetery - Royal Naval Cemetery, Haslar, Gosport, Hampshire
Relatives Notified - Widow -Margaret, 48 Gains Road, Southsea, Hants
This Robert Dick also left a will with Margaret named as beneficiary.
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This looks like a contender for Ellen Kate/Lily's death
Deaths Sept 1/4 1939
Ellen K Dick age 59 Bournemouth 2b/1163
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Thank you for all the information! The details found for Henry samuel Varney are correct with my research and I cannot see that he had a sister that could have been Faney or Fanny or Frances. However, on the 1891 census there was a servant called fanny Toogood working for the family of Joseph and Martha Johnson (who have connections with the Varney family) living at woolmer, Castle Road Carisbrooke IOW - so that might be worth checking!
Re Robert Dick- I do not think that the Robert Dick who died on naval service is our one, more so because his widow was Margaret whilst our Robert Dick was married to Ellen Edwards.
I am somewhat confused as earlier research on this posting seemed to indicate that Robert Dick fathered a child in 1918 in Christchurch so this could not be the same one who died in 1915. The Robert Dick in my research was definitely born c 1870 and my records show that in 1881 he was with his parents at Ferniegair, Hamilton, Lanarkshire. The service death record for Robert Dick in 1915 shows he was born at Dalserf which is no more than 5 miles from Ferniegair- all very confusing as it would seem that the surname of Dick in Scotland is as prevelent as the surname of Jones in wales!
It would seem the only way to clarify this is to establish the age of the Robert dick who died in 1915 and maybe find more info on the birth of a child in 1918 in Christchurch with the surname of Dick (mother Edwards). Any ideas?
Caroline
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Of all the people in the whole of the UK,surname Dick, who's deaths are transcribed in 1915 on FreeBMD not one of them is for a Robert Dick!
I agree that the naval man Robert Dick isn't yours but I think it could be is his death record in 1914 on FreeBMD.
I agree about the surname being very popular. I will look some more and see if I can dig up anything else.
Ellen Kate/Lily's death cert would be interesting to read.
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Hi my Grannie was Olive Dick of this family. My dad is trying to find out about his Grandad Robert Dick and the family. Thanks for the info on here. He had some of this information already but this has added to it.
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Hi Lms- I have quite a bit on this family and am happy to share what I have. If you are able to, please send me a personal message and we will chat off the main feed. If you are unable to do this, please post on this thread which gaps you are looking to fill and I will do my best to help.
Caroline
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Hi Caroline
Thanks for the quick reply. I am missing a date for when Robert married Ellen/Lily if you know it?
Not sure what else Dad wants to know. Thanks
Lisa
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Hi Lisa and Caroline
Just read the post. My Husband Richard's Granddad was Norman (normie) Dick, he was always called Norman although that was one of his middle names. His mother was Rose Ida Dick, and he was Olive's bother. He never talked about his family, and always told us he was a Barnardo's child. We have only recently found out about him living in Bournemouth and his parent's. We would love to hear more, it has always been a bit of a mystery. Many Thanks Jacqui
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Hi - I wonder if this is the John Harry N Dick that i have in my research as born Dec Q 1905 Christchurch. Bearing in mind that he would only have been just over 12 months old when his mother Rose Ida dick died in January 1907 I wonder what happened to the children? I think maybe we now need to look o the 1911 Census for them all.
Please send me a personal message and I will do what I can to help.
I have not opened this particular file for a few years now so am having to remind myself of the complicated story!
Caroline
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I have traced all the children in 1911 and with the exception of Rose (born 1896) who is employed at an address in Springbourne, Pokesdown all the children- including 'Normie' Dick are at home with Robert Dick and Lily (presumably Ellen Kate).
Hope this helps! I will now did a bit deeper and update what I find. My main line has been to track Euphemia but happy to help with the others or as rwquested.
Caroline
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My previous long explanation does not seem to have been posted.
here is the outline for Rose Ida Dick - part of my husband's tree- as I have researched thus far.
If there are any glaring errors from what you know from the family please let me know!
I would love to find out more from family members as family knowledge with my husband is very sketchy and so i have had to research the hard way.
Here we go-
Rose Ida henning was born 1874. her sister sarah known as Kate had an illegitimate son and was subsequently sent to the isle of Wight to start afresh whilst the child was brought up by his grandparents.
Rose Ida Henning married on the IOW in 1894 to john Dick- Corporal in the Royal Artillery.
Rose and John Dick had 3 children- all born near Aldershot Barracks - Euphemai born 1895, Rose in 1896 and Elizabeth (Ida) born 1897.
John Dick died aged 31 in 1899 on the Scottish Register 'Service and war Returns'- Boer war?
Rose Ida dick then married John's brother Robert Dick on 31st July 1899 in Glasgow.
Their first child Robert was born on 27th June 1900 at Grey Street Larkhall Lanarkshire.
In 1901 Robert and Rose are living at Paislow Street Bothwell Lanarkshire with Euphemia, Rose, Elizabeth and baby Robert.
By 1902 they had moved back to Christchurch and in 1902 a son John leslie Dick was born and sadly died in the Sept Q 1902.
1903- daughter olive May was born followed by John harry Norman Dick in 1905.
In January 1907 Rose Ida Dick died of Uterine Cancer in Pokesdown and Robert then remarried as a widower to Ellen kate Edwards- widow- (aka Lily) in Sept 1909 Christchurch.
Ellen brought with her 2 children william and Beatrice Ford from her first marriage in Somerset and they are all together in 1911 in Pokesdown.
Please send me a PM or post more into the thread if I can help more or if you need more info. More than happy to help and would love to be in touch with this part of my husband's family.
Caroline