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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: ShellBeach on Sunday 03 December 06 06:02 GMT (UK)
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I have been searching for years to find the true name of my ggggrandmother - in hopes that I might be able to obtain additional information about her.
From old family records, I have one reference that indicates her maiden name was Agnes Boles...and another Agnes Alison. Unfortunately, I have never been able to verify if either name is correct, nor have I ever been able to locate any additional information concerning her family - using either of these names.
I am hoping that someone can possibly help me establish her identity - from either the OPR records pertaining to her birth or marriage... or perhaps from her son's birth. According to family records, she was born in Renton, Cardross in 1822. She married James Davie in Bonhill on February 20, 1841. Their son, George Davie, was born in Crescent, Alexandria, Bonhill on April 29, 1844.
Any help would be so appreciated - much more than I could ever convey.
Thanks!
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Hi there
From the index on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and referencing the marriage details you've given her name is listed as ALISON. Within the next few months the digitized images of the original OPR's should be available to view and download. Perhaps her details might include a snippet more of information!
In the meantime I've done some searching and it would be strictly circumstantial guesswork....but there is an ALISON/ALLISON family in Renton having children at the right time. Unfortunately there is no listing for the birth of an Agnes...but neither is there a listing for the birth of a James but you'll find James and wife living in Bonhill in 1841....which might hint at a connection to Agnes also in Bonhill at that time. The thread that makes them all look likely to have a connection is the use and re-use of names. Henrietta is the mum's name from the Renton couple.....and James and wife have a daughter with same name. Likewise another son of the Renton couple....George....is found listed as the father of yet another Henrietta who dies in Renton unmarried. The fact that your Agnes and James had a son named George.....well....like I said....all circumstantial but certainly looking favorable to have some sort of link. Another factor is all their occupations tend to revolve around the printfield industry. I'll keep looking....it might not be possible but......would really like to sew this one up for you! :)
Best wishes
Jean
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hi shell, hope i am not throwing a spanner at the works!!
1841 census:
Bonhill Crescent
Margaret Richardson...age 55
George Richardson...age 25...calico printer
James Davie...age 20...calico printer
Agnes Davie...age 19
Happy Hunting
Joe
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Hi Shell
If I could just throw a hammer along with Joe's spanner ::)
When researching your Agnes and James, be aware that there is another couple called James Davie and Agnes GOW having children at nearly the same time. This Agnes shows in the 1851 Census in Dunbarton with a birth year of 1827 and a Renton birth place. The couple married in 1850 and have one daughter Margaret aged 5 months in 1851. James is a shipbuilding clerk.
Regards.
Monica
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The marriage as listed by Jean is on the IGI
AGNES ALISON JAMES DAVIE Marriage: 20 FEB 1841 Bonhill Dunbarton
Batch M114936 Film 1041982 The film is from the Parish register so you would be able to order it via your local LDS centre, to see if any other information is given (often very little unfortunately).
Trish
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Thank you Jean, Joe, Monica, and Trish... for your time and kindness in providing these additional insights!
Jean - I suspect that you are correct in your assumption that perhaps the Alison family you mentioned living in Renton is likely related to Agnes, the wife of James Davie. (Note: James Davie's father (b: May 24, 1784 in Drumsaddoch, Cardross) is also named George...which I assumed was the namesake of James and Agnes' son, George.) Can you please provide me the father's name of the Alison family living in Renton (husband of Henrietta) that you found? It might serve as a valuable resource for further research into Agnes's possible ancestors.
By the way, my ggggrandmother, Agnes, came to America alone with her son, George (according to family anecdotal records) in about 1848-49 - although I cannot find any ship records to confirm. She was reported to have died at sea during the journey. I found her husband James (who remained in Scotland...although I don't know why!!) living with a second wife and family in the 1881 census in Govan, Lanarkshire. His occupation is shown as a "carter". Do you know... is that a profession related to the printing industry? It may help to confirm that the family you referenced (and the Agnes that Joe referenced in his reply) are, in fact, related to my ggggrandmother...... I very much appreciate you efforts to help me.
ps. I went to scotlandspeople.gov.uk, but it said that "Due to the physical layout of the OPR's, the task of linking images to the correct indexes is proving problematic, and OPR images will not be available on Scotlandspeople in the short term future." :'(
Joe - I have recorded the info you provided, as it may prove beneficial down the road in researching this couple. Do you know what month the 1841 census was taken? My records indicate that James was born Aug 19, 1819...which would have made him 21 or 22 (as opposed to 20)...but, I imagine such slight age discrepancies may have been commonplace(?). p.s. great to see a face with a name (...very handsome) ;)!!
Monica - I really appreciate the info you provided regarding a different James Davie & wife, Agnes Gow. This info will prove very helpful so to ensure that I don't go down a wrong road and mistakenly assume this couple to be my direct relations.
Trish - Thank you for the batch/film number info you provided. I live in Shell Beach, California....I think the closest LDS centre is in Los Angeles...and I will make an effort to visit it the next time I am in Los Angeles. I'll be happy get you (or anyone else above) copies of records they would like when I'm there.
Thank you all again! You're wonderful!
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Hi,
1841 Census - 7th June. 1851 Census 30/31 March. 1861 Census 7/8 April.
1871 Census - 3rd April. 1881 Census - 4th April. 1891 Census - 6th April. 1901 Census - 31st March.
Hope this helps,
Helen
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Hi SB
I was sure I posted this before - guess something went wrong ??? ???
Good idea to call your local LDS before arriving on the doorstep. In Oz (which may be different to US) they are not usually open all the time & they keep few films on the premises - usually have to order them from a central office (Sydney) or sometimes (for us) from the US. They are also not open for all regular business hours - although these details are usually given on the web site. Otherwise often a good place to visit - just to browse & chat & see what else they have available. Pre the internet LDS centres were probably the best source for family history research.
good luck
Trish
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Hello all. George Davie (1843-1916) is my GG grandfather. I too am having a struggle on sources vs other people’s opinions based on lack of evidence. Has anyone made any concrete discoveries as to who George’s parents are and so forth? Any help is much appreciated
RDavie
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The parish registers are now available online at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. These are the only source of the originals of the baptism and marriage records you are seeking. The IGI and commercial web sites contain some indexes and transcriptions of the originals. but they also contain family trees submitted by people whose research may or may not be robust and reliable. So do not trust them - use them as pointers and check them against originals.
ShellBeach, what was your source for Agnes Bole?
Rdavie5577, what conflicting information do you have?
Going back to the beginning (at the risk of duplication), and using the indexes at Scotland's People, the community indexed (NOT the unreliable 'community contributed') IGI and the transcriptions at FreeCEN ...
James Davie and Agnes Gow were married in Dumbarton on 14 January 1850 and they had daughters Margaret Macall Davie, baptised 24 November 1850 and Jean McGregor Davie, baptised 17 November 1853, both in Dumbarton. (If your Agnes had died in 1849, this could have been her widower with a new wife, were it not that he was only 25 on the date of the 1851 census.)
James Davie and Agnes Alison were married in Bonhill on 20 February 1841, which agrees with what you have already. The 1841 census lists at Bonhill Crescent
James Davie 20 Cal[ico] Pr[inter] Journeyman Not born in Dunbartonshire
Agnes Davie 19 Not born in Dunbartonshire
The FreeCEN transcription does not list them in the same household as Margaret and George Richardson.
Shellbeach, you asked if a carter was a profession related to the printing industry. A carter is someone who carts things around, the equivalent of a haulier or courier these days. Some would have carted goods and commodities used in printing, others would have carted coal, or manufactured goods, or building materials, or raw materials, or anything that anyone wanted to move from one place to another. It's not unusual to find someone who has worked in some trade or profession turning up as a carter in a later census, but there were also whole families of carters.
Your James Davie, however (assuming that he is the one in Bonhill Crescent in 1841) was a calico printer. This means that he was not involved with the printed word, but in printing patterns on to cotton cloth, which is a rather different skill.
Shellbeach, you said that you had found James in Scotland in 1881. How do you know that it is the same James Davie? Have you got his death certificate? Because it ought to tell you the names of all his wives. If it is the same James Davie, and the certificate does mention his first wife, it should tell your her full name, if that was known to the informant.
The 1881 census index seems to list James Davie, 63, Janet Davie, 63 and Janet Davie, 20 in Govan. Are these the family you referred to? If Janet jr's age is accurate, she would have been born between 4 April 1960 and 3 April 1861. There is no birth of a Janet Davie with parents James and Janet that exactly matches this, so perhaps Janet is a granddaughter rather than a daughter. A look at the original census would clarify this. Also, James and Janet Sr would have been born between 4 April 1817 and 3 April 1818 if their ages are accurate.
However the index to 1871 lists in a household in Govan James Davie, 52; Janet, 52; James, 27; Janet, 25; Jane, 18; Margaret, 15; Margaret, 3; and John, 2. If this is the same family, James jr was born in 1843 or 1844, so this James Davie sr cannot be yours.