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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: aghadowey on Monday 08 January 07 21:25 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 08 January 07 21:25 GMT (UK)
Old Bible in our house for many years has been a mystery- not sure where if came from, how it ended up with us, etc.

From the Bible records and various newspaper & vital records I have been trying to put together a better picture of these families.

Dr. William Armstrong (d.14 Aug.1860) m.(14 Nov.1829 Aughavea Church by Rev. James Haire) to Frances Haire. 1829-1840 living at Foyle St., Derry. 1858 living at Collooney.
Frances Haire dau. of Hamilton Haire, Glassdrummond, grand-dau. of James Haire, Nutfield, Fermanagh.
Children:
1. 'first child born before its timeMarch 1830.'
2. Frances Mary Armstrong (see below).
3. William Thomas Armstrong (11 Feb.1833 Derry-22 Nov.1837 Foyle St., Derry).
4. Florence Cole Armstrong (4 Jan.1836 Derry-30 Nov.1837 Foyle St., Derry).
5. William Armstrong (13 Oct.1839-16 Apr.1875).
6. James Armstrong (b.17 Mar.1840 Foyle St., Derry).
7. Florence C. Armstrong (b.17 Mar.1845?).

Frances Mary Armstrong (b.14 Jan.1832) m.(23 Feb.1858 Collooney Church) to Thomas Hamilton 'of constabulary,' son of late Lt. Thomas Hamilton, R.N.
1866- sub inspector constabulary, Cork.
Dec.1868- Bellevue Terrace, Cork.
June 1870- Maryborough, Queens Co.
I have found 7 children:
1. Maude Hamilton (b.21 Jan.1859).
2. Mary Florence Miller Hamilton (b.21 __ 1860).
3. Thomas Hume Hamilton (b.12 June 1867 Cork). d.1915 Belfast district
4. Gertrude Aimee Hamilton (b.13 Dec.1868 Cork). died 1871
5. Claude John Cole Hamilton (b.23 June 1870 Maryborough).
6. Florence Gertrude Hamilton (b.17 June 1871 Maryborough).
7. Rhoda Clara Hamilton (b.21 Oct.1873 Maryborough). married 1903 Coleraine (Londonderry) district to William J.K. McMurray

In the Bible is another entry: Thomas Armstrong departed this life July 3d 1846... I placed his son Thos. with Morgan ___ in July 1849- to lodge and feed him- he is now 4 years and four months old. June 15th 1850. Jane Phibbs
It is my intention with the blessing of my heavenly Father to educate him in the protestant faith, and if spared to apprentice him at a proper age to a trade.- Jane Phibbs- June 15th 1850.

Note- found newspaper obituary for Dr. Thomas Armstrong, Collooney, died 3 July 1846, aged 38.

I think Dr. William Armstrong and Dr. Thomas Armstrong, both of Collooney, were probably related.

Can anyone help me find more details? It would be wonderful to find some relatives of these people.
 
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 20 May 07 12:38 BST (UK)

3. William Thomas Armstrong (11 Feb.1833 Derry-22 Nov.1837 Foyle St., Derry).
4. Florence Cole Armstrong (4 Jan.1836 Derry-30 Nov.1837 Foyle St., Derry).
5. William Armstrong (13 Oct.1839-16 Apr.1875).
7. Florence C. Armstrong (b.17 Mar.1845?).


Hiya aghadowey,

The four children, shown above, of Dr William and Frances Armstrong are interesting. I wonder what caused the death of the two children in 1837.  Possibly an epidemic in Derry? The two christian names were then used again in the family which makes me wonder if Dr William's father may have been William and either his mother or his wife's mother was named Florence. I also suspect that there are families named Cole, Hume and Miller in the tree.

Christopher
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: RonnieG on Monday 21 May 07 15:06 BST (UK)
Aghadowey,

Ancestry lists five Thomas Hamiltons enlisting in the RIC. It states their county of origin, their age at enlistment and the year of enlistment.

1869, 21, Cavan
1841, 21, Down (married)
1843, 22, Fermanagh
1857, 25, Donegal
1887, 20, Cork

As it was a requirement that all contables serve at least seven years before marrying the man from Down would not have married prior to 1848.

RonnieG



Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Friday 22 July 11 11:31 BST (UK)
My wife is related to this family.

Frances Haire is the brother of Revd. Hamilton Haire, from whom she is descended.

Frances Haire's parents are Hamilton Haire (1774- December 1844) and Frances Newburgh (November 9, 1767)-(April 30, 1821)

The reason why "Cole" appears regularly in this family as a second Christian name is that Frances Newburgh is descended from the Coles of Enniskillen.  That descent comes from the marriage of Frances Newburgh's grandfather, Arthur Newburgh to Florence Cole, daughter of Sir John Cole and Florence Wrey.  Sir John Cole built Florencecourt, Fermanagh, which is today owned by the National Trust. 

I can also provide you with names of more descendants of Rhoda Clara Hamilton and William John Kirkpatrick Murray.  They had at least three children: Theodore McMurray, Wan Armstrong McMurray and Dermot Hume Hamilton McMurray.  Theodore McMurray married Rodni Lafontaine.  They had a daughter *.  Wan Armstrong McMurray married F.E. Evangeline Ellis.  They had 3 known children: *
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 22 July 11 12:22 BST (UK)
What a lovely surprise to get your message and welcome to Rootschat.

As I mentioned at the start, it's a complete mystery as to why this Bible was in the family home although all the evidence seems to say that there's no connection with our family.

I've been to Castle Coole but didn't know the Coles had any connection to the Haire family.

Since my original post I think I found more family details but will have to get out that file to check. Will post more details later.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 22 July 11 13:01 BST (UK)
Rhoda Clara Hamilton married 1903 William John K. McMurray (born c1857 Canada). In 1911 they lived in Portrush, Co. Antrim. Son Theodore born c1904 and son Ivan Armstrong born 1905.

Dr. William Armstrong (13 Oct.1839-16 Apr.1875) married Emma Barker. Two daughters: Emma Frances (18 Jan.1874) and Wilhelmina (22 June 1875). I may have found a photo of Wilhelmina.

Canon James Armstrong (born 17 May 1840-30 Apr.1928). 1911 living at Castlerock, Co. Londonderry with niece Frances Anna Mary Maud Hamilton and nephew Thomas Hume Hamilton.

Have lots more details which I can send offline- once you've made 3 posts you can use PM (Personal Message) system to exchange email addresses, etc.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Friday 22 July 11 14:05 BST (UK)
Thank you for that. 

I notice that there are a few McMurrays living in PortStewart (the next door town to Portrush).  I wonder...

I look forward to receiving further information, after I have written my third post!
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 22 July 11 14:13 BST (UK)
The McMurray boys went to Campbell College, Belfast (details on Lennon Wylie website) but father born in Canada according to census.

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/CampbellCollegeRegister2.htm
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Saturday 23 July 11 12:08 BST (UK)
There is a baseball player from Canada with the name Melville Cole Arrmstrong.  I wonder if that is more than just co-incidence


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cole_Armstrong
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 23 July 11 12:11 BST (UK)
Only Canadian link I've found so far is William J.K. McMurray. Am still finding and typing up information!
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Wednesday 24 August 11 23:42 BST (UK)
Hi,

Still thinking about that mystery bible.

I dont suppose you ever investigated the families of the previous owners of your house?

Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 24 August 11 23:44 BST (UK)
We are the previous owners of the house going back to 1700s at least  :)

My father-in-law said it was there ever since he could remember but had no idea why.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Haire68 on Sunday 19 February 12 19:06 GMT (UK)

Reference  - my wife is connected to this family.

I am researching the Haire family - early stages.  This is my husband's family and I have found his ggrandfather was Francis Haire born 1810 died 1875. His wife's name was Martha.............
Since Rev. Hamilton Haire was born 1802 it seems likely this is the Francis Haire mentioned in your
message.  Would be grateful if you could let me know if you know his wife,Martha's maiden name.

Both their names are on a headstone in Lisnaskea Church of Ireland cementary. 

The first mention of the name Haire I have found in Fermanagh to date is a Joseph Haire's marriage in 1697 to
Anna Cathcart.  I have also found the Newburghs you mention.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 19 February 12 19:13 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat. There may be a connection between your family & this Bible but think you might be a bit confused.
There is no Francis Haire in the Bible- the Frances Haire mentioned is female and she married Dr. William Armstrong.

Added- Frances (Haire) Armstrong born c1801 and died 1883.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Haire68 on Sunday 19 February 12 20:53 GMT (UK)
Comment on message from Fermaniard family history.

I am researching my husband's family tree.  His gggrandfather was Francis Haire born 1809 or 1810.  He died
1875.  You referred in your message to a Rev Hamilton Haire (born 1802) who had a brother Francis from
whom your wife was decended.   Gggrandfather Francis was married to Martha.................... I would be grateful to know her maiden name .  They are both named on a headstone in Church of Ireland cementry,
Lisnaskea.  Hamilton Haire father of Frances (daughter) is also buried there.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Tuesday 19 March 13 19:07 GMT (UK)
Hello there,

After many months, I have found living descendants of Rhoda Clara Hamilton (October 21, 1873 - aft 1939).  Before I reveal their identity, I will seek permission but also invite them to contact this site.   Meanwhile, I will inform them about the mystery bible and see if they know anything about it.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 19 March 13 19:11 GMT (UK)
How exciting- funnily enough I was just thinking about this thread the other day  :)
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: rlyman on Friday 08 August 14 21:16 BST (UK)
I think I got it! My ancestor, James Tedlie, married, 1860, Coleraine, Mary Hume Hamilton.  My research tells me that she was daughter of Lt. Thomas Hamilton RN, married Anne Miller, Ballintra, daughter of John Miller.  Your information shows the name of Hume, Miller and of course, Lt Thomas Hamilton -Think we got it together! Please contact me at (*) - Thank you - Richard

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Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Monday 11 August 14 10:58 BST (UK)
Lt Thomas Hamilton RN that you refer to is probably the father of Thomas Hamilton (died after 1887) who married Frances May Armstrong in 1858. 
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: rlyman on Monday 11 August 14 16:40 BST (UK)
Dear Fermaniard - Thank you of your message - Looking for the family of Lt Thomas Hamilton, RN who married Anne, daughter of John Miller, Ballintra.  Lt Thomas, I hope, is the father of Mary Hume Hamilton marrying James Tedlie.  I agree of your reply.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 11 August 14 21:45 BST (UK)
Partial family tree-

Lt. Thomas Hamilton, R.N., m. Anne Miller, Ballintra, dau. of John Miller.
1.   Thomas Hamilton (d.aft.1887) m.(23 Feb. 1858 Collooney Church) Frances Mary Armstrong (14 Jan.1832 Derry-4 Sept.1887 Winterville, Armagh).
2.   Mary Hume Hamilton m.(19 Apr.1860 Coleraine) Lt.-Col.James Tedlie (c1802-8 Oct.1866 Buxton, Derbyshire, Eng.), son of John Tedlie.
Coleraine Chronicle, 21 Apr.1860: At Coleraine Parish Church, on the 19th inst., by the Rev. J.H. Miller, Rector of Tamlaght O’Crilly, uncle to the bride, Lieut. Co. Tedlie, late 25th Regt., to Mary Hume, youngest daughter of the late Thomas Hamilton, Esq., Royal Navy.
Probate: James Tedlie 8 Oct.1866 Londonderry, Mary Hume Tedlie.
     1.   James Hamilton Tedlie (23 Oct.1862 Ballyowen, Derry-3 Jan.1951 Hove dist., Sussex, Eng.)
     Coleraine Chronicle, 1 Nov.1862: At Ballyowen, Derry, on the 23rd ult., the wife of Lieut. Colonel Tedlie, of a son.
     1896- San Francisco, Ca. Voter Reg.: James Hamilton Tedlie, 33, b.Ire., 612 Jones.
     1898- San Francisco, Ca. Voter Reg.: James Hamilton Tedlie, 36, b.Ire., 513 Leavenworth.
     1900 Census- San Francisco, San Francisco, Ca.: lodger James Tedlie, Oct.1862, Ire., to US 1884, single, clerk R.R. In household of Charles D. Laing.
     In San Francisco directories 1896-1904.
     1951 TEDLIE James Hamilton of 15 The Drive Hove Sussex died 3 January 1951 Probate Winchester 15 February to Midland Bank Executor and Trustee Company Limited. Effects £673 12s 6d.
     2.   Thomas Hamilton Tedlie (2 Feb.1865 Eglinton, Derry dist.).
     Coleraine Chronicle, 4 Feb.1865: At Ballyowen, Derry, on the 2nd inst., the wife of Lieut. Colonel Tedlie, of a son.
     25 Feb.1911 “Lusitania” arrived N.Y. from Liverpool, Eng.: Thomas H. Tedlie, 46, b.Ballyowen Ireland, planter, married?, final destination Hong Kong, 5’10” fresh complexion red hair brown eyes.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: rlyman on Monday 11 August 14 22:59 BST (UK)
Thank you, Aghadowey - You have been very helpful - Regards
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: crimea1854 on Tuesday 12 August 14 16:12 BST (UK)
O'Byrne's Naval Biography of 1849 has an entry for Lieut.Thomas Hamilton (b. 1 Aug 1801) that shows he married Ann Miller of Rossyvolan House, Ballintree, Co Donegal on 28 Dec 1828, and that they had four sons and three daughters.

He lead quite an interesting life joining the navy as an able seaman taking part in the Napoleonic Wars and the War of 1812 with America. He subsequently served with the Coast Blockade Service where he was severely wounded in a fight with smugglers. He later transferred to the Coastguard Service and was Chief Officer at Larne CG Station in 1840.

Martin
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: rlyman on Tuesday 12 August 14 16:32 BST (UK)
Dear Martin - Did not all that - Very appreciated - Thank you - Richard
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: crimea1854 on Tuesday 12 August 14 19:59 BST (UK)
I you were looking to take Thomas Hamilton back a further generation, the National Archives hold the Lieut. Passing Certificate  for a Thomas Hamilton who passed his board in 1818 this seems a strong possibility and is in ADM 107/50 pages 398-400, and ADM 6/115 page 99, the first includes details of his birth.

Martin
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: rlyman on Wednesday 13 August 14 03:52 BST (UK)
Dear Martin - Thank you for the information - but - The National Archives tell me that the data is not to be digitized or printed - unfortunately London is too far from California - Take care - Richard
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Gilby on Thursday 14 August 14 10:53 BST (UK)
I didn’t see anyone mention the Ulster Directory of Doctors, so I thought I’d have a look.  I don’t think this has anything new, but you never know...

ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM (d 1860), Muff, Co Donegal, Culmore, Co Londonderry, and Collooney, Co Sligo:
Eldest son of William Armstrong, surgeon, of Sligo [?]; LRCSI 1817; MD (Edin) 1826 (thesis ‘De fibre puerperali’); LM Rot Hosp Dub; physician of Foyle Street, Londonderry c1838-40; medical officer to Muff Dispensary District and constabulary, of Culmore, county Londonderry, c1845; later medical officer to Collooney Dispensary District; married 14 November 1829in Aghavea Church of Ireland Church, county Fermanagh, Frances Haire, daughter of Hamilton Haire of Glasdrummon [where?]; died 15 August 1860 at his home in Collooney.  [BNL 20 Nov 1829 (m), 20 Jan 1832 (b), 15 Jan 1833 (b), 19 Oct 1838 (b), 20 Mar 1840 (b) and 21 Aug 1860 (d); Croly (1843-6); Edin Univ; Kirkpatrick Archive; Londonderry Sentinel 21 Nov 1829 (m); Med Dir].


I’ve a funny feeling I’ve got a tenuous link to the Hamiltons via my McCausland ancestors from Limavady.  Whatever the link is I wasn’t sure enough about it to put it in my family tree...
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: mmcpadden1 on Thursday 14 August 14 12:36 BST (UK)

Re : Hamiltons mentioned above if you google John Hamilton,Donegal + Drumhome,there is info.on the family on both sites.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: rlyman on Thursday 14 August 14 17:02 BST (UK)
Dear MMCPADDEN1 - Thank you - Still looking for Lt Thomas Hamilton ancestry - Looks connecting  for John Hamilton, Brown Hall - possibility - Richard
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 14 November 15 09:33 GMT (UK)
Fermaniard-
Have just sent you a PM (Personal Message) which I'm hoping you'll see soon although I notice you haven't been online recently.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Fermaniard on Sunday 15 November 15 15:16 GMT (UK)
Hi,

The answer to your email that I know who would treasure that document and would be delighted to receive it. 

Regards,
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Jason Hamilton Clarke on Sunday 10 October 21 22:19 BST (UK)
This has been a very exciting thread to read, and 7 years have passed since the last message was written. I'm Jason Hamilton Clarke, great great great Grandson of Thomas Hamilton , great great grandson of Rhoda Claire Hamilton, Grandson of Dermot Hamilton. I'd love to know, is the bible is still out there?!? I'm based County Down & County Donegal.
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 11 October 21 09:58 BST (UK)

Welcome to RootsChat, JHC  :)

I'm sure that aghadowey (the OP) will be able to answer your question.


KG

Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 11 October 21 21:49 BST (UK)
This has been a very exciting thread to read, and 7 years have passed since the last message was written. I'm Jason Hamilton Clarke, great great great Grandson of Thomas Hamilton , great great grandson of Rhoda Claire Hamilton, Grandson of Dermot Hamilton. I'd love to know, is the bible is still out there?!? I'm based County Down & County Donegal.

Lovely surprise to get your message today. The Bible is now in my utility room  :) If you make 1 more post here I'll be able to send you a PM [Personal Message].
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 13 October 21 21:50 BST (UK)
Jason- I have sent you a PM (Personal Message) but since you've only one post you may not be able to respond so I've given my email address.
Hoping to hear from you, aghadowey
Title: Re: Help with 'mystery' Bible
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 17 November 21 09:00 GMT (UK)
This has been a very exciting thread to read, and 7 years have passed since the last message was written. I'm Jason Hamilton Clarke, great great great Grandson of Thomas Hamilton , great great grandson of Rhoda Claire Hamilton, Grandson of Dermot Hamilton. I'd love to know, is the bible is still out there?!? I'm based County Down & County Donegal.

Sent you email on 1 November re: Bible but not had reply so perhaps you didn't get my message. Bible will soon have to go to a more final home so please get in touch.