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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: shaboh on Thursday 18 January 07 10:53 GMT (UK)
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My Great grand father James Kerr (b 1851) & his wife Sarah Kerr nee Sproule (b 1853) lived in, according to a death cerificate I have of one of the kids, Strabane in County Tyrone. One of there children Patrick (b 1881) came to Australia in 1910 & died here in 1960. I know he had brothers named John (b 1873), James (b 1875), William (b 1877), Joseph (b 1883), George (b1885) & Thomas (b 1891) as well as sisters (I have their married names) Mary Campbell, Sarah O'Connor (B 1889 and Bella or Bridget Gray (b 1893). All the above people were born in Ireland but moved to Scotland before the 1901 census. Can anybody assist me. Are any of these your relatives?
My relatives were born in Ireland but lived in Scotland. Here is all the info I have on the family from 1901 Census. My grandfather is Patrick who was born in 1881. He married Elizabeth Colvin in 1909 and came out to Australia.His father was James Kerr and his mother was Sarah Sproule.
The family were living at house with three windowed rooms in 1 Winton Terrace, Main Street. Winton Terrace was a tenement block on Main Street, several closes. It was a common affectation for a builder to ignore street names and give his development a name of his own choosing. Other families in the same close were Smillie, Hanning, Black and McMahon - I don't know if these are significant - plus three unoccupied houses. Mary was not there but when she was married in 1906 she had her occupation as Domestic Servant, usual residence 8 Cathkin Place, Shettleston. Are any of these people related?
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hi,
there was a new thread started about the sproul family and i was searching the boards when i came across yours. you probably have this information by now but i'll post it just in case;
james kerr married sarah sproule 27-nov-1868
castlederg roman catholic church
parish of urney
county tyrone
if you have it already, no harm done :)
tony
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Great info Tony
You mention James Kerr & Sarah Sproule were married 27 November 1868 at Castlederg Roman Catholic Church in the parish of Urney in County Tyrone, Ireland. There appears to be 3 Catholic Churches.
St. Francis of Assisi,
St. Eugene's
St.Mary's
Were they around in 1868. Would you be able to assist me in finding more info.
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hi, just sent you a p.m. about ordering the marriage cert ;)
tony
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I received the marriage certificate. The certificate lists Sarah Sproule as a minor (no age) & a servant. James Kerr is shown as??
James Kerr's father is shown as James Kerr while Sarah Sproule's father is shown as Joseph Sproule. No mention of mothers
The residence at the time of marriage is Meahy. They were married by Thomas Boyle.
Can someone assist me.
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IGI lists 3 children of James Kerr & Sarah Sproul:
1. Patrick born 15 Feb.1870 Co. Tyrone
2. William born 6 Nov.1877 Co. Tyrone (not 1877)
3. Mary born 6 Dec.1878 Meahy, Co. Tyrone
Meaghy townland is in Ardstraw Parish in Strabane Poor Law Union.
The church records would hopefully give you some details of the family (baptisms, etc.)
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there is a marriage for a joseph sproule to isabella brown,4-nov-1846,castlederg first presbyterian church,ardstraw parish,castlederg.
i see one of james and sarahs daughters was called bella, maybe named after the grandmother, or maybe i'm just stretching it a bit far :-\
tony
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You guys are pretty amazing. I need to know how it can be done from here in Australia. I'm impressed many thanks.
This is the info I had. It came from George who died in 1949 without a will. In NSW the trustee administrated his affairs. I got the probate 5 years ago & it showed his estate was divided 9 ways amongst his brothers & sisters. As James was listed as dying in 1946 it went to his sons William & Thomas Kerr while John who was listed as dying in 1905 the 1/9 went to his daughter Ruby who I believed lives/lived in the United States. Maybe there were 2 Patricks with one dying young???
Sibling Born Died
John 1873 1905
James 1875 1946
William 1877
Mary 1881
Patrick 1881 1960
Joseph 1883
George 1885 1949
Sarah 1889
Thomas 1891
Bridget/Bella 1893
I have a distant relative in Scotland gave me this info recently. He got it from the Strathclyde Genealogy Centre :
1933 644/5 (Garngadhill) No.359
1933 Sarah Kerr, widow of James Kerr, Farm Labourer, died at 2h40m p.m. on Tuesday, July 4, aged 84 years at St Joseph’s House, Gardgadhill, Glasgow .Shettleston (Usual residence 1002 Shettleston Road, Glasgow), of Cerebral Haemorrhage as certified by W.J.Davil, L.R.C.P., L.R.C.S.. Joseph Sproule, Farmer (deceased) & Isabella Sproule m.s. Brown (deceased). Her death was registered 1933 644/5 (Garngadhill) No.359 by S Connor, Daughter, 82 Springfield Road, Glasgow. [on] 1933 July 5th at Glasgow, John Reilly, Registrar
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More food for thought. The relative in Scotland also provided this info:
He found
*1933 644/5 (Garngadhill) No.359*
Sarah Kerr (Widow of James Kerr, Farm Labourer)
1933 July 4th 2h40m p.m. [died] at St Joseph's House, Garngadhill,
Glasgow (Usual residence 1002 Shettleston Road, Glasgow) aged 84 years.
[Parents] Joseph Sproule, Farmer (deceased) & Isabella Sproule m.s.
Brown (deceased)
[Cause] Cerebral Haemorrhage as certified by W.J.Davil, L.R.C.P.,
L.R.C.S,
[Registered by] S.Connor, Daughter, 82 Springfield Road, Glasgow.
[on] 1933 July 5th at Glasgow, John Reilly, Registrar.
So, who is S.Connor?
*1915 644/19 (Shettleston) No.20*
1915 15 February at St Mark's Chapel, Shettleston, Glasgow After
Publication according to the Forms of the Roman Catholic Church.
William Connor, Labourer - Cleansing Department, Bachelor, age 23, 50
Wellshot Road, Shettleston, Glasgow.
[Parents] Daniel Connor, Shepherd & Kate Connor m.s. Halpin
Sarah Kerr or Farrell, Widow, age 26, 50 Wellshot Road, Shettleston,
Glasgow.
[Parents] James Kerr, Labourer (deceased) & Sarah Kerr m.s. Sproule
[Celebrant] Andrew Joseph O'Brien
[Witnesses] Owen Fegan & Sarah Campbell
(Registered on] 1915 February 17th at Glasgow, Wm.L.Campbell,
Registrar.
There are quite a few possible James Kerr deaths between 1906 and 1915,
none in Shettleston.
But I got another one, it pays to make no assumptions. <g>
*1906 622/2 (Shettleston) No.6*
1906 22 June at The Manse, Shettleston After Banns according to the
Forms of the Church of Scotland.
Alexander Campbell, Coal Miner, Bachelor, age 23, 2 Park Lane,
Tillicoultry [Clackmannamshire]
[Parents] Thomas Campbell, Coal Miner (deceased) & Christina Pow
Campbell m.s. Kerr
Mary Kerr, Domestic Servant, Spinster, age 25, 8 Cathkin Place,
Shettleston.
[Parents] James Kerr, Labourer & Sarah Kerr m.s. Sproul
[Celebrant] Hector MacKinnon
[Witnesses] Sarah Kerr & Hugh Campbell
[Registered on] 1906 June 23rd at Shettleston, M.D.Toner
You could spend some time wondering whether Mary worked in Tillicoultry
or Alexander worked in Shettleston.
A lot of info can be found but very hard downunder. The marriage certificate which costs 12 pounds cost me $33 Aussie dollars. That is quite dear. I will now get Joseph Sproule & Isabella Sproule m.s. Brown's marriage certificate. If anyone wans James Kerr & Sarah Sproules certificate just let me know. I have it scanned.
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*1933 644/5 (Garngadhill) No.359*
Sarah Kerr (Widow of James Kerr, Farm Labourer) 1933 July 4th.
[Parents] Joseph Sproule, Farmer (deceased) & Isabella Sproule m.s.
Brown (deceased)
[Registered by] S.Connor, Daughter, 82 Springfield Road, Glasgow.
[on] 1933 July 5th at Glasgow, John Reilly, Registrar.
So, who is S.Connor?
1915 15 February at St Mark's Chapel, Shettleston, Glasgow.
William Connor.
Sarah Kerr or Farrell, Widow, age 26, 50 Wellshot Road, Shettleston,
Glasgow.
[Parents] James Kerr, Labourer (deceased) & Sarah Kerr m.s. Sproule
1906 22 June Alexander Campbell
Mary Kerr, Domestic Servant, Spinster, age 25, 8 Cathkin Place,
Shettleston.
[Parents] James Kerr, Labourer & Sarah Kerr m.s. Sproul
Don't understand why you are asking who S. Connor is as she was referred to in your 1st post along with her sister Mary Campbell.
as well as sisters (I have their married names) Mary Campbell, Sarah O'Connor (B 1889 and Bella or Bridget Gray (b 1893).
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Sorry I wa quoting the relative in Scotland. I got carried away. He was making an assumption. I guess it is all starting to drop. The info is out there I just need to put it all together.
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there is a joseph sproule in griffiths valuation of ireland,townland of castlebane. you can search it here;
http://askaboutireland.ie/
i tried looking for a townland called meaghy but it had nothing.
tony
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Just checked here (under place name search) and Meaghy came up:
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_place_search_form.php
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Is there any information known about the ancestors of the family? I believe my great grandfather, John James Carr (Kerr), may have been born near Newtownstewart in 1817, he named his first son James John and his second Robert, so these given names, which also appear in this family, were important to him.
Wondering if there may be a connection?
John Carr
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Hiya Shaboh
I have Sproules with the same pattern as yours.Margaret Sproule my husbands GG/mother was born 1880 Creevy,Tyrone,married & died Glasgow - info from her birth/death records as she is not recorded on F.S pilot site.
Margaret parents and siblings are
George Sproule and Catherine Watson m 5 Dec 1861 Urney,both died bef 1949
Georges father as William Sproule.
their 9 childrens names
Matilda b1865 Castlederg
Jane b1867 "
William George b1869 "
James b1871 "
Catherine b1873 "
Elizabeth b1874 "
Robert b1877 Tyrone
Isabella b1879 Creevy,Tyrone
& Margaret b1880 "
have you made any Sproule progress since your last posting and do any of the above named connect with your Sproules??
Fiona
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Fiona
This is the info I have:
1846 On Wednesday, November 4 Isabella Brown married Joseph Sproule at the Castlederg first Presbyterian Church, Ardstraw Parish, Castlederg.
1868 On Friday, November 27, Sarah Sproule married James Kerr at the Castlederg Roman Catholic Church in the Parish of Urney, County Tyrone according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church. The marriage was registered No.46.
Sarah was a Spinster, gave her age as a minor. Her occupation was recorded as a Servant, usual residence Meaghy near Ardstraw. Her father is recorded as Joseph Sproule, Farmer. Her mother is not recorded.
Maybe George & Joseph were related. We should stay in touch though. You can contact me on (*)
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my grandfather lives in england but had family move to newyork ? he knows that they had a number of kids ?
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Looking for some assistance with James Kerr in Newtownstewart early 1800's. I gained access to a book this past weekend, 'Ardstraw (Newtownstewart) Historical Survey of a Parish, 1600 - 1900' by John H Gibbie , which shows a James Kerr in Newtownstewart, Ardstraw Parish, Tyrone, Ire. in 1828. His occupation was listed as grocer. My great grandfather's name was John James Kerr, b. 1817. My great grandfather's middle name makes me suspect his father may have been named James, John James named his first so James John, so the naming pattern would hold. John James emigrated to the US in 1834, possibly with an older sister or cousin named Margaret. I am seeking birth and death records for Newtownstewart from the early 1800's that might help me see if there could be a connection here. Also possibly land records that might show land transactions. I have a map image of 1833 Newtownstewart that clearly show's John Kerr's farm on it. It was located just outside the town in an area that is on the top of the hill above town, as I recall from a visit there a few years ago. Connection to the farm is another possibility, so I am wondering if there might have been a land transfer in 1834. Any help is appreciated, thank you.
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I am also using single tandem repeats within the Y chromosome to identify men who may connect to my Kerr lineage. So I would be very willing to pay for a DNA test of any living man who can show he descends from the Kerrs of Newtwonstewart. Please contact me directly for discussion on a DNA test. Thank you.
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I have only just found this forum. My family are Kerrs from Meaghey. I have the trustees statement of the funds distributed in the will of my mother's Uncle Thomas who died on 5 July 1968. He was a bachelor and so he left some money to many Kerr nephews and grand-nephews/nieces. He left some money for the upkeep of the family grave in Sandymount Cemetery, Shettleston Glasgow, mentioned on this forum.
My Grandfather was Samuel Kerr who operated a grocers shop in Newtownstewart owned by his brother (William?). Somewhere I have a copy of his will also.
I would be happy to fill in the few details I know of recent times, but I don't know much about older generations. I would love to hear what you guys know.
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Hi
Re your DNA offer. I would be glad to participate if you wish. My mother was Jean Kerr of Newtownstewart, her father was Samuel and they were closely related to a Mr Thomas (Tom) Kerr of Meaghey who I used to visit as a boy 50 years ago.
I have 2 male cousins, both descended through the male line via their father Norman Kerr. One lives near Manchester New Hampshire and the other near Niagara (Jordan?) if that would help.
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Would the DNA test mentioned earlier need to be from a descendant through the male line rather than just a male descendant? in otherwords the son of a son of a son... rather than a man whose mother was a descandant?
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I see someone was having trouble finding Meaghy, a few years ago. If my memory is correct, and we are talking 50 years ago when I was only a boy of 10, The Kerr house may be found on the junction of Meaghy Road and Spring Road. To find it google Meaghy Road, Castlederg, Co Tyrone and follow the map along. Street view will show that there are only a couple of houses on that road.
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YDNA passes from father to son exclusively, so yes, the DNA would have to come from a direct line male descendant of the referenced James Kerr, or a be a direct male descendant from Jmaes' paternal line ancestors, to be useful in identifying a likely lineage connection. James Kerr and Mary Sproule were born about the time of my grandfather Robert, son of John James Carr (Kerr), so the connection would need to be with an earlier generation of the Kerr paternal line. My great grandfather would have been 34 when the James Kerr being discussed here was born, so it is possible that the connection is even two generations prior James. If anyone knows the pedigree of James back a few generations, and possibly the expanded male line, I would be grateful for that information.
There are many DNA tests available at relatively low cost these days that can identify potential relationships at the cousin level as well as maternal and paternal line ancestry, and even ancient genetic line affiliation. Personally I find these DNA haplotypes are as important a genealogical tool as any other that I have at my disposal. The cousin and maternal line tests have been very useful. I am still waiting for a connection on the paternal line DNA, which has a few characteristics that are on the uncommon side, which makes finding connections rare, but more likely to share the same paternal line when found.
If anyone knows of a living male whose direct paternal lineage extends from the James Kerr being discussed here, or from the paternal line of his father, grandfather, etc., I would very much appreciate being put in touch with them so I can ask them to take a YSTR DNA test, at my expense if proof of a potential link to a shared paternal line exists. This test identifies nothing beyond potential relatedness, so there are no worries about revealing anything personal about the DNA donor. I encourage all of you to take at least a cousin test, you have a good chance of linking to someone who can expand your family history knowledge in some way. Plus, we can see if we do likely share some recent ancestors.
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I am a direct lineage connection link to James Kerr.
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don't know if this is helpful but i am descended from the marriage of James Kerr and Lydia Ashfield. I believe they resided in Castlecaufield, County Tyrone. One of their children, Thomasena Kathleen Kerr emigrated to Canada. I think they all did, but I can say for certain that she did. She married George Walter Deyell and they resided in Toronto. One of the Kerr sons had a daughter Florence who married and emigrated to Australia, which is where you are i think?
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Hi,
You may already have this but James Kerr married Lydia C. Ashfield on 18 Dec 1883 in Aughnacloy Church of Ireland, Clogher District Co. Tyrone
Regards
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thanks very much
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Hi I just stumbled onto this post. Looks like my cousin Harry Key replied to you. My Father was Norman Kerr from Newtownstewart His Father was Samuel Kerr and Great Grandfather John Kerr from Meaghy I believe. I did have my Dna done by Ancestry. Did you have any luck?
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Hi guys. It's been a while. I have found so much. I travelled to Tyrone in Northern Ireland in October 2018. If you have any questions contact me on (*)
Regarding the chapels I had spoke about where James Kerr & Sarah Sproule married...There is an out of print book 'A History of The Parish Of Ardstraw West And Castlederg' by the late Rev. Philip Donnelly which contains information about the Parish. This is what I can ascertain. The Catholic parish of Ardstraw West and Castlederg was created from parts of the ancient parishes of Urney and Melmount. There were three chapels: St. Patrick's in Castlederg (replaced in 1978 with St. Eugene's but St. Eugene remained in use as a church until it too became in need of serious repairs, and so it was decided to refurbish the old Saint Patrick’s Church again & on 11th May 1997, it was rededicated), St. Mary's in Carncorn (Carncorran is a variant spelling), and St. Mary's in Envagh. St. Mary's in Carncorn was replaced by St Francis of Assisi in Drumnabey and was dedicated on 19th December 1982 by the Bishop of Derry, Most Rev Edward Daly DD. It was built to replace the old church of St Mary’s, Carncorn, which had passed beyond reasonable repair. The church can hold 430 persons and is the only church in the diocese to be dedicated to Saint Francis, in memory of the old monastery of Franciscans at Scarvaghern, which was dispersed in 1603. A contact I had on a Castlederg Facebook site said she no idea why both St. Mary's in Carncorn & St. Mary's in Envagh were named St.Mary's...”We always referred to them as Carncorn Chapel and Dregish Chapel” she said.
I will add more
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Joseph Sproule (Approx 1826- 23/04/1905) & Isabella Brown (Aprox 1926-30/05/1915)
Married on 4th November 1846 at Ardstraw, County Tyrone, Ireland. They were married at the First Castlederg Presbyterian Church in Garvetagh. They had 14 kids. My great grandmother Sarah was number 2 born on 24th August 1848. First Castlederg Presbyterian Church has kept good records on the Sproules. Here is a video of my 2018 trip to Castlederg in County Tyrone in Northern Ireland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyZ3CaZuDQ&t=11s
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I don't know how old this is. I've been working on the tree of a friend. I've been looking at the Kerr family in Meaghy in the 19th century and have worked a few things out. There are two Kerr families there in the 1901 and 1911 census returns. On is Jane Kerr (nee Maxwell) who was married to James Kerr who died in 1890. James, born about 1838 was the son of Thomas and Ann Kerr. A Samuel kerr, described by Jane as her brother in law is also present in the family home. This Samuel was a retired policeman and did not marry. I believe the other family is the one you are talking about. A Samuel Kerr born about 1806 married first Margaret Jamieson and then Elizabeth Irwin (married 1849). Samuel and Margaret had a son John born about 1837 who went to Scotland and then to Philadelphia, where he married Elizabeth Mahood who was born in Cavan. John and Elizabeth and their children (Mary, John James, William, Thomas and Samuel) are likely to be the family being discussed in this strand.
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PS... I should have made clear, after their wedding in Philadelphia in 1873, John and Elizabeth returned from to Glasgow and are in Glasgow for the 1881 and 1891 census returns, where John is a dealer of watches, gold and silver etc with a business at 47-51 London Road. They then returned to Meaghy and were there for the 1901 and 1911 censuses.