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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Keith Bateman on Friday 19 January 07 15:30 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
Please excuse my ignorance - I feel I am just starting out on this family history lark - thought I knew all about English records - but know nothing about Australian ones!!
I have found my lot on the "unassisted immigration to Victoria" passenger list on the ship "TIPPOO SAIB" with fische no. and page.
What do I do now!!?? ::) ::)
Will it give me anything interesting to see?
Advice please to a "new" researcher
Cheers
Keith
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Hi!
When I was searching for something I found this site quite helpful:
http://www/prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria
Hopes this helps, if not now, in the future maybe.
Suzi ;)
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Sorry, there should be a full stop after the www!!!
::)
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Hi Keith
Checked your local history society or LDS Centre, they may have copies of the fiche. I can check the passenger list for you, all I need are the names.
We can also check the other Vic Indexes, just need details.
Cheers
Genni
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Hi Genni,
See I told you I was acting like a newbie!! ::) ::)
John Gates and his wife Ann Scott born c1780 in Cumberland - came out to Oz with their married daughter Ann Barnsley(b1820) and her husband George - together with children Thomas Scott Barnsley (b1847) & John Gates Barnsley (b1849)
I have found them listed on the unassisted immigration list-1852
I have found a few details out about them - including that the death record of John Gates in 1852 in Melbourne doesn't list his parents - which is a great disappointment!!
Also from IGI that Ann Gates died in 1854 - with what I hope is a "wrong" father listed!!
Both George Barnsley and wife Ann were teachers on the 1851 census record in England.
On the Kemp family history website
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kemp/b8.html
I have found there is someone who is a direct descendant of Thomas Scott Barnsley - but unfortunately the email address given for that person has been returned as undeliverable!
Again looking through the Victoria State BMD ( and by a process of elimination) I think he married in 1874 and from IGI I have found 2 daughters born around that time - Anne Scott Barnsley 1875 - and Frances Barnsley 1877 - plus a death in 1930 in East Melbourne.
All the IGI records seem to be submitted - is that always the case with Australian records on there - I have learnt from the English records not to always trust them!?
Quite pleased with these "bare bones" - but where do I go from here?
Thanks for your patience.
Cheers
Keith
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Hi Keith
Just looking at bdm for Victoria.......there are a couple of death records for George Barnsley
George Barnsley d 1860 age 45 (#8746)
George Barnsley d 1858 age 35 (#4864)
Unfortunarely there were no parents listed for either of them
Fiona
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Also from IGI that Ann Gates died in 1854 - with what I hope is a "wrong" father listed!!
This is the from the actual BDM index entry - her father is recorded as Thomas on her death certificate.
Ann GATES, aged 67, born Cumberland, death registered 1854
father: Scott Thomas
mother: Ann Unknown
reg number: 957
The 1852 record you refer to is a church burial record - civil registration did not come in until July 1853 in Victoria. Death records are only as good as the knowledge of the informant anyhow. This death certificate will list her children and ages, when and where she married, and how long in Victoria.
Birthplace, cause of death, burial details, parents, mother's maiden name (unknown in this instance), fathers occupation.
The Mormons did not film records in Australia like they did in England. You can check their library catalogue for what they do hold. This is why they are mostly submitted and often unreliable as well. The best ones everywhere are the extracted ones direct from parish registers.
Christine.
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Hi Fiona,
"My" George said he was 29 on the '51 census - so think it would be the 1858 one.
Now why does everyone tell me the Australian records show much more detail - except when I want them!! ;D
Any chance of finding out who Thomas Scott Barnsley might have married in 1874.
What do the records show - I only know the FreeBMD from England which list 4/6 people and you have to guess who belongs where!?
Thanks
Keith
P.S. Just got your message Christine - as I tried to load my reply - will answer shortly
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hello there
just about to post and the red warning is there
chris has posted info for you
but also you havethat John Gates and Wfe Ann Scott born C1880 can you please correct this for you to help us finf a bit more for you
also do you have their parents names that will help with the death search
regards jenn
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hello there
Thomas Scott Barnsley married Susan Lyons born Victoria in 1878 refno 4464
they had a number of children
do you want those regards jenn
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Annie KEMP, died 1863, aged 43, born Cumberland
father: John GATES, mother Annie Unknown
reg # 4150
Ann BARNSLEY married Samuel KEMP 1859, reg #835
so that earlier death that Fiona posted would be her first hubby.
George Barnsley d 1858 age 35 (#4864)
Christine
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2 children to Annie and Samuel KEMP before she died.
Elspet Cowie KEMP, birth registered at Vaughan, Vic, 1859 #21377
Samuel KEMP, reg Frye (possibly Fryers Creek - they usually use a four letter abbreviation in the indexes) 1862 #20632
Christine
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Hi Christine & Jenn,
Many thanks for that information - GREAT! ;)
Would love Thomas & Susan Barnsley's children - please.
Sorry for incorrect century for John Gate's birth - now altered.
Will now enter it all and see where I am up to.
Cheers
Keith
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George & Ann Barnsley also had another child before George died.........
Anne Scott Barnsley b 1855 Fryers Creek (# 5387)
Anne Scott Barnsley m Charles Joseph Wilcher 1876 (#4457)
Fiona
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Hi Keith
Ann Scott Barnsley b 1875 Footscray (F. Thomas M. Susan Lyons) (#22930)
Frances b 1877 Footscray (#15712) (F. Thomas M. Susan Lyons)
hth
Fiona
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This is going great - keep it up - trying to put it all into my software as we go along.
So the Australian records are better! ;)
Keith
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What do the records show - I only know the FreeBMD from England which list 4/6 people and you have to guess who belongs where!?
We get them paired up in the index - and the certificate tells us mother's names too. As well as ages and birthplaces of the bridal couple.
A quirk of certain indexes show their birthplace in the index (often misunderstood by newbie to be the actual place of marriage - the online index used to say place of event)
A hint for using the Vic online BDM index - unless it has changed - abbreviated forms will not come up so use a wildcard. George will not come up if it says Geo. But will if you use Geo*. Jno entries will not come up for John, so you have to search separately on them. Using J* throws in to many results.
But a few of us have the years covered anyhow, so just ask.
Christine
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But a few of us have the years covered anyhow, so just ask.
Christine
Careful what you say ;D ;D ;D
I did read (for a change) the instructions on the Victorian BMD and saw about the wild cards - but thanks for the tip.
I presume you have better details than the free indexes?
Ann Scott Barnsley who married Charles Wilcher is my 1st cousin (3 times removed!) so quite close really!! :D
Did I say THANK YOU - to everyone
Keith
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hello there
what an interesting site the KEMP one is
now listed there is a Pauline Barnsley daughter of George Barnsley and Annie Gates
here is here marriage
Pauline Barnsley born at sea married Henry Jordan in 1873 ref no 3183
regards jenn
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Couple of interesting NAA entries too.
John Gates Barnsley elisted ww2 b. in Cumberland .Mother as NOK. Fully digitised.
Thomas Scott Barnsley has 2 records and may well be a descendaant of your lot.
Sue
http://www.naa.gov.au
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Hi Jenn,
Thanks for that marriage - it was the "born at sea" - that prompted me to start this topic off yesterday:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,208524.0.html
Haven't I progressed well in 2 days!! 8) 8) 8)
Keith
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John Gates Barnsley enlisted ww2 b. in Cumberland .Mother as NOK. Fully digitised.
Sue
You do mean WW2?
Must be one one my lot!
The original people in this part of my tree are John Gates and Ann Scott - great when they keep using the surnames as middle names (quite Scottish)
Off to see what I can find at NAA (I know now what that stands for!!)
But what does "NOK" stand for?
Keith
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Nok stands for next of kin
Also just found
Francess Barnsley m John Simpson 1899 Footscray (#3864R)
Fiona
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Simpson children..........
Annie b 1899 Footscray (#18659)
John b 1900 Melbourne South (#28156)
Fiona
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No, sorry,
Not ww2 ,ww1.
NOK is mother whose name is Johana.
He was a butcher in civie life.
Sue
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A few more Simpson children.........
James b 1908 Melbourne South (#5152)
Flora May b 1906 Melbourne South (#4771)
Walter Thomas b 1902 Melb S (#20171)
Albert Edward b 1910 Melb S (#13175)
Arthur b 1913 Melb S (#14593)
Also found
John Gates Barnsley Jordan m Agnes Lavenia Keay 1907 Newmarket (#3962)
John Gates Barnsley Jordan m Amelia Mahalia Faithful 1910 Carlton (#6924)
Fiona
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Interesting details at NAA - Thomas Scott Barnley record consists of an empty envelope - wonder what it did contain originally?
NOK - of course!! :-[ :-[ :-[
Without wishing to be a pest -
could you find his father - K Barnsley - must be born about 1870? - if he was born 1896
This is all fabulous !! ;D ;D ;D
Just seen your news Fiona - will read after I post this!
Keith
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Hi
The second entry of name Barnsley, Thomas Scott on the NAA site is most likely the same man as first.
It is not digitised.
The information on the first entry says thart the contents of the 2 records for the manhave been amalgamated.
you can request furhter info. if you wish.
S
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That's the way I read it Sue.
So that means he served in WW1 & WW2 - obviously with different numbers
Will see what else they have - will have to read about how I get that information.
Brilliant to "see" the name written down - now just have to work out how he fits into my tree.
Keith
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Hello Keith
All the Victorians get up somewhat earlier than the folks up North ;D May be to do with time zones.
Meanwhile, I was amazed at the age of John and Ann (snr) when they made that trip! Where did you get Ann born c. 1780 from - on the shipping list it says age 64 - which would be c. 1788
On the AVRI the death/burial record for a John Gates aged 61 is St Mark's Collingwood C of E 1852/21435. Someone from Melbourne may know more about this church
I just found the details for LDS England if you want to order the AVRI
399 Garrets Green Lane
Birmingham B33 0UH
ENGLAND
Tel: (44-121) 7852200
Fax: (44-121) 7897686
I think I found the younger generation in 1851 - I assume you have them - given that the parents and children are transcribed with different names - this may be why I can't find John and Ann Snr. They seem to have a daughter - did she die before the trip?
Trish
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From the war service record for Thomas Scott Barnsley, I had a browse in Queenland & found
John Gates Barnsley m Johanna Clara Driscoll 2 Mar 1889 1889/000690
George Barnsley born 8 December 1889 1889/004002 parents John Gates and Johanna Driscoll
Will add the others from the next cd
Trish
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I am having trouble finding the place of birth for John Gates Barnsley.
His stated POB on the NAA record
is vague.
Born GEORGETOWN
Near CUMBERLAND
in county [state usually] of Australia
The covering summary says Georgetown, NSW.
Any ideas?
S
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All the following have parents John Gates Barnsley and Johanna Clara Driscoll
Annie Gates 01 Jan 1893 1893/004305
Frances Gates 14 Apr 1901 1901/004297
Johanna Clara 26 Dec 1894 1895/004484
John 2 Sep 1891 1891/004785
Mary 14 Mar 1903 1903/003766
Minnie 14 mar 1903 1903/003766
(If they are twins, should be 2 numbers, there may be a transcription error, or only 1 person)
Pauline 28 Feb 1899 1899/004298
Thomas 21 Dec 1896 1897/004265 (not indexed with the Scott)
There are 2 other Barnsley records
Muriel Bradford Barnsley born 19 Aug 1912 no father given mother Annie Barnsley 1912/008478
Death John Gates Barnsley father George Barnsley Mother Annie Gates 20 May 1903 1903/001806
So he died just after the birth/s of Minnie/Mary - leaving Johanna with all those babes :'( :'(
Trish
Presumably Johanna died after 1914
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Hi Trish,
Thanks for that information - will give IGI a ring.
I have never managed to get back further with John Gates's parents - there are a few choices around the time - and the only census record I have is the '41 - which has rounded down ages and not actual place of birth (town)
His death is the first lead!
The only trouble with that is that I have his wife's parents down as John Scott & Mary Sealy - both different to her death certificate!!
I realise death records are the worst ones - no one to ask!!
But whatever their exact ages (I presumed they had died as I couldn't find them on the 1851 census) - to go that far when both over 60 was fantastic.
Although neither survived very long - but would they in this country!?
Ann & George had another child Mary Ann born Jan 1851 and died Mar q/r 1852 in Stamford Lincolnshire - just before they set off on their journey.
I hope there is a death record for Agnes Lavina Jordan around 1909 - otherwise I have a bigamist in the family!! :o
Cheers
Keith
P.S. Thanks Trish for the new information - tried twice to load my answer keep getting your new information and it stops me!!!!
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Sue
I think he was born in Qld - see John in my previous post
Trish
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MMmm.
Looks like it Trish,
Is the 'Cumberland ' mentioned just an odd co-incidence? as that is where [in UK] the saga started with Ann's birth.!!
S
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I have John Gates Barnsley b1849 in Northamtonshire, England - who came out with his parents George & Ann in 1852.
I presume he married c 1870 and had a child of the same name - and that is the one we are now on?!
Any chance of finding a connection?
I can only just keep up with all this data - GREAT isn't it.
I need a late night drink now (just coffee honest) - although it should be something stronger in celebration for all you have found for me!!
Keith
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hello there
Isn't this a rather sad thread a lot of the family died young
I see that annie gates died in suspicious circumstances and there was an inquest held
you would have to say that thomas scott barnsley decided to move to queensland ( who can blame him hey trish mate)
glad the birth at sea record of pauline lead you on this merry chase Keith even if you have to take up drinking ::)
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No bigamist Keith
Agnes Lavinia Jordan d 1909 age 22 Newport (#9970) (F. Fred James Keay M. Agnes Lavinia Bateman)
John & Agnes had 2 children before she died
Ivy Agnes Lavenia Jordan b 1909 Williamstown (#15436)
Fred John Jordan d 1908 P Melbourne (#3472)
Fiona
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Agnes Lavinia Jordan d 1909 age 22 Newport (#9970) (F. Fred James Keay M. Agnes Lavinia Bateman)
Fiona
Am I right with saying her mother was a "BATEMAN" - how's that for a coincidence - the Gates are my mother's line NOT my fathers!!
Small world!!
I can't even get a drink of coffee tropicalj - toooo much going on ;D ;D ;D
Keith
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hello there Keith
was trying to find Agnes Jordan death
please note it is under JORDON
yes her mothers name was Bateman
will check her birth
regards jenn
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I have John Gates Barnsley b1849 in Northamtonshire, England - who came out with his parents George & Ann in 1852.
I presume he married c 1870 and had a child of the same name - and that is the one we are now on?!
Any chance of finding a connection?
I can only just keep up with all this data - GREAT isn't it.
I need a late night drink now (just coffee honest) - although it should be something stronger in celebration for all you have found for me!!
Keith
Keith
The John Gates Barnsley in WWI is John born 2 Sep 1891 in Queensland. He is the son of your John Bates Barnsley b. 1849, who didn't marry until 1889. How he got to Queensland is yet to be determined.
Sit down and have some red wine (bugger coffee) and draw a picture of all these folks everyone is talking about & how they all interrelate. The name Barnsley seems to be not so common - In Queensland I have listed ALL that existed to 1914, so you are probably related (inlaw like) to all the Barnsleys in Australia. We can blame you for everything they did or didn't do :D :D
Sue
The concept of counties and parishes exists in Oz - no doubt copied from England. Qld was divided into a series of counties/parishes and many (probably all) had county names taken from England. Real property desciptions tend to be Lot nnn on Plan nnn County of xxxx Parish of xxx - and if I could find mine - I would give the actual details.
The names could well have been devised by the surveyors who did the original work.
Maybe John Gates Barnsley was the first person in the Georgetown area of Queensland? He could have named it the County of Cumberland - If you look at the records for his brother, you will see it says Georgetown Qld
Looking at the map - www.multimap.com - it is to the west, between Cairns and Townsville - so they probably were the whole town :o :o :o
Imagine being left there a widow with 10 children :'( :'(
Trish
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You must just have an Oz Fan Club keith - Maybe its that wonderful cat
;D ;D ;D
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hello there
now trisha don't tell keith too many fibs
George Town is part of the Etheridge Shire Coucil
the area was founded in the 1860's a bit early for George :o
http://www.savannah-guides.com.au/page2-6.html
here is a little about the joint George might have gone there for minerals ;D
jenn
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Death John Gates Barnsley father George Barnsley Mother Annie Gates 20 May 1903 1903/001806
I have just re-read this point - so that makes sense now - he married when he was 39 - have just joined the 2 JG Barnsleys together and it all fits nicely!!
When I get time I will have a look at the map and see where is what!
Just a few more Barnsley's to add to my list!! :o ;D
Thank you
Did I say thank you
Keith
P.S. If you don't stop soon I will have more relations in Australia than I do in England!! ::) :o ;D
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A couple more for your collection Keith
Frances Jordan b 1874 Williamstown (#20060) (M. Pauline Barnsley F. Henry Jordan)
John Gates Barnsley Jordon b 1877 Williamstown (#12369) (M. Pauline F. Henry)
Fiona
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1869 - Rich deposits of alluvial and reef gold were discovered in the locality. The area became known as the Etheridge Gold Field
My original Barnsley - George b c1822 died in Cambell Creek - Victoria 1858 - inundated with mud slides while searching for alluvial gold.
Now I must find out what Alluvial gold is - first time I have heard of this - more data!!
Keith
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ps.... Williamstown Victoria
Fiona
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hey Keith
I think Alluvial gold iwas found when you wash it rather than mining underground in a gold reef
but don't take that as fact just my own thoughts that is
hence mud slides etc cause the areas would be awash with water from people panning for gold and the area around would weaken
regards jenn
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Brief Note:
The County of CUMBERLAND in NSW encompasses the expanded City of Sydney.
Also, there is a Georgetown in northern Tasmania as well as the mentioned Georgetown in the Gulf Savannah region of North Queensland.
Hope this helps -
EDO
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hello there Keith
referring to Lavina Keay mother of Agnes Lavina Jordan
Lavina Keay died 1889 aged 32 Essondon reference 11796
father Abraham Bateman mother Annie Gibbs
so does that tie in with your Bateman side
regards jenn
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hello there
now trisha don't tell keith too many fibs
George Town is part of the Etheridge Shire Coucil
the area was founded in the 1860's a bit early for George :o
http://www.savannah-guides.com.au/page2-6.html
Blimey Jenn
Population 300 - probably 90% of them are called Barnsley. Odds on, he went there looking for gold or the like - and it wasn't until 1889 that any women of marriageable age appeared there :). Could be worth an email to the local council/library to see if the name is well known in the area.
His death certificate would probably be interesting Keith - odds he died in an accident
At the Qld archives there are a few records of mining leases to a John barnsley
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/downloads/Indexes/Mining_1%20East-Bonner.pdf
Trish
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yes Edo,
This is where my confusion started because there is a Georgetown in that NSW area too.
S
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hey there Trisha
pop 300 now back then would have huge much like charters towers I shouldn't wonder but you are no doubt right an email to the local council would clear thing up
probably an accident seems this family was prone to them!!!!
jenn
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Did we find a marriage for Thomas [Scott not indexed, per Trish] b. 1896, son of Johanna
Nok is K .Barnsley.[Not necessrily father ,Keith as per your query way back there!!!]
Sue
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Just entering all the details and wonder about this one
Muriel Bradford Barnsley born 19 Aug 1912 no father given mother Annie Barnsley 1912/008478
I wonder if Annie is the daughter of JGB & JCD - born 1893 - which would make her 19?
As far as I know (at this moment) I do not have any Bateman's in Australia before about 1930 - but having said that a few days ago I did not have ANY relations from my mother's side there either ;D ;D ;D
Still entering!!
Keith
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Did we find a marriage for Thomas [Scott not indexed, per Trish] b. 1896, son of Johanna
Nok is K .Barnsley.[Not necessrily father ,Keith as per your query way back there!!!]
Sue
Not Yet - I don't have it entered anyway!! ;D
I do have Thomas Scott Barnsley b. 1847 in Northampton, England marrying Susan Lyons in 1878 - could it be their son?
Keith
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Did we find a marriage for Thomas [Scott not indexed, per Trish] b. 1896, son of Johanna
Nok is K .Barnsley.[Not necessrily father ,Keith as per your query way back there!!!]
Sue
Qld CDs don't go past 1914 Sue - so unlikely to have married before then. Shame they merged the 2 files - else the WWI would be available. He probably lied about his age for WWII unless he was a senior officer. I have one relative who put his age up for WWI and down for WWII.
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I do have Thomas Scott Barnsley b. 1847 in Northampton, England marrying Susan Lyons in 1878 - could it be their son?
He said he was born in Georgetown Qld & Thomas the son of John and Johanna is the only possibility born in Qld - then again the "brother" has been coded as NSW BUT the record says Georgetown Cumberland Australia
Just realised - may be on the nominal role for WWII
Trish
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hello there Keith
a couple of deaths for you from Victoria
Thomas Scott barnsley aged 82 died in 1930 melbourne e reference no 10717 no parents listed
Anne Scott Barnsley aged 81 died in 1957 footscray reference 5242
father Thomas Scott Barnsley no mother given
at least they made it to old age
regards jenn
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http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=A&VeteranID=93649
Service Record
Name BARNSLEY, THOMAS SCOTT
Service Australian Army
Service Number Q186385
Date of Birth 21 Dec 1896
Place of Birth GEORGETOWN, QLD
Date of Enlistment 20 Oct 1939
Locality on Enlistment TOWNSVILLE, QLD
Place of Enlistment TOWNSVILLE, QLD
Next of Kin BARNSLEY, K
Date of Discharge 1 Mar 1940
Rank Private
Posting at Discharge 1 GARRISON BATTALION
He was probaly discharged related to age
Trish
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Seems some of them moved to town
Thomas appears to have been buried in Brisbane
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:STANDARD::pc=PC_899
Barnsley Thomas Scott M 25 / 08 / 1981 84 years
Barnsley Catherine F 23 / 02 / 1982 82 years
Cemetery: Pinnaroo Cemetery
Portion Grave Number
6ANZ 789
K on the war record is probably for Catherine :D
Trish
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Please excuse the delay - I am halfway down entering the data on page 3!!!
As it is now 2-30am I think I am slowing up - will do a bit more then come back refreshed in the morning (that is if I can get any sleep - think I am tooo Hypa!!)
Did I say THANK YOU to everyone - now what's for tomorrow - look at maps - look for gold - enter data - look at WW1 & WW2 data............
Must have breakfast as well ;D ;D ;D
Keith
P.S. Cheshire has a grinning cat - Isle of Man has a stubby tailed cat - doesn't Tasmania have something - so what about Australia!?
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Barnsley Catherine F 23 / 02 / 1982 82 years
I wonder if that is the NOK - Katherine spelt with a K not C??
Keith
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Just entering all the details and wonder about this one
Muriel Bradford Barnsley born 19 Aug 1912 no father given mother Annie Barnsley 1912/008478
I wonder if Annie is the daughter of JGB & JCD - born 1893 - which would make her 19?
As far as I know (at this moment) I do not have any Bateman's in Australia before about 1930 - but having said that a few days ago I did not have ANY relations from my mother's side there either ;D ;D ;D
Still entering!!
Keith
hello there Keith
where did you get this info from
I can't see the birth on the indexs
regards jenn
disregard read through the thread and see the birth was in Qld. so maybe she went north and had the child?
regards jenn
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There are 2 other Barnsley records
Muriel Bradford Barnsley born 19 Aug 1912 no father given mother Annie Barnsley 1912/008478
Death John Gates Barnsley father George Barnsley Mother Annie Gates 20 May 1903 1903/001806
So he died just after the birth/s of Minnie/Mary - leaving Johanna with all those babes
Trish
This is what Trish gave me on page 3!
Keith
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Barnsley Catherine F 23 / 02 / 1982 82 years
I wonder if that is the NOK - Katherine spelt with a K not C??
Keith
Ahem - I guess it is getting very late in your world as I noted
K on the war record is probably for Catherine :)
Trish
PS I agree, most likely that Annie born 1893 is the mother of Muriel born 1912
And if you find any more relatives in Oz, we will probably catch Tati on the posting leaders board ;D ;D ;D
Isn't it nice to have got rid of those little dirty smilies ;D ;D
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Hi Keith
Well, I answered this topic at about 7.30am (vic time) this morning and it's now 4.48pm. Haven't the OZ rootschatters been busy, while I've been visiting my daughter in the City.
I'm going to the State Library tomorrow, will have a looke at the passenger list for you, see who sponsored them etc.
Cheers
Genni
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hello there
hey genni that'll learn you to go out :o
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,208304.0.html
can you take a look at this thread you might be able to help out here
thanks jenn
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Hi Keith
Well, I answered this topic at about 7.30am (vic time) this morning and it's now 4.48pm. Haven't the OZ rootschatters been busy, while I've been visiting my daughter in the City.
I'm going to the State Library tomorrow, will have a look at the passenger list for you, see who sponsored them etc.
Cheers
Genni
I haven't done bad have I ;D :o
I am usually quite happy to find a new relation every week - 40 odd in a day is fantastic! ;D ;D ;D
So people were sponsored to come over to Australia? Didn't know that - knew about the assisted passage from State/Government but that was all.
As I think I said way back(on page 1?) - Ann & George were both School teachers according to the '51 census so perhaps it was through that that they went abroad?!
I will now try and finished entering the rest of the details (from page 3 onwards!!) - so look out for my next query :o :o :o :o :o ;D
Thanks again
Keith
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Hi All,
Well a few hours of entering all the details (including some extra ones that Trish sent me direct!) and it's all taking shape.
A few minor points:
As I said, as far as I know I don't have any Batemans in Oz before 1930, but you never know - so any chance of finding any details about Abraham Bateman and his wife Annie Gibbs who must have married around 1850? (Agnes born 1855)
I will check the English records as well.
I presume that Ann Scott Barnsley (b 1875) and died 1957 would not have married as her name didn't change?
Right off to see those links you all put up for me !!
And to think ALL I asked was "NOW WHAT!! ;D ;D
Cheers
Keith
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Hi Keith
Abraham BATEMAN & Annie GIBBS are in Victoria before 1850. A daughter Anna Maria was christened in Collingwood in 1850.
There are 327 BATEMAN's on the 1836 to 1888 vic indexes.
Regards
Genni
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Quite early in this wonderful thread, I did have look at
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/
section 'teachers in state govt schoools' and I could not see George and Anna registered as working.
Sue
-
hello there Keith
now Ann Bateman father John Gibbs mother ann maria
died 1884 aged 55 kensington victoria 1884/8825
abraham bateman died 1894 aged 71 no parents given damn and bugger that ref 1894/13174
at least gives you ages to work off
they arrived in 1849 on the Mary Shepherd book 4Apage 54 abraham was 25 she was 19 they arrived as assisted immigrants
regards jenn
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Here also is a burial reference in NSW.
Worth mentioning as the Sarah Barnsley buried with Thomas Barnsley was 93 yrs old at her death, so therefore falls into your time frame of interest. [even if not your states of interest].
They may find a place in your searches some time.
http://cemindex.arkangles.com/inscriptions.php
Sue
-
I can see Abraham and Annie buried at Coburg cemetery.
http://www.fcmp.com.au/
Wonder if more info might be available there ?
S
PS
No, No, wrong dates etc. !!
Got diistracted when saw name Abraham Bateman.
-
Hi All,
Thanks for those dates Jenn!
Found on FreeBMD
Marriages Dec Q/r 1848
London 2 143
Abraham Bateman
Ann Gibbs
With English BMD you get 6 people to choose from - but I think that is to much of a coincidence!
Right now to see if I have any Abraham Bateman's in that time scale.
I know this is typical of me going off track but.......
By the way just looking at the Enlistment papers for John Gates Barnsley - you see quite a bit of history on them - including job - you also realise why he put NOK down as his mother - his father had died and he was single - simple!!
Thanks for the other information - will note it all down and go through it all.
Genni - I never knew there were so many Batemans world wide - I always remember dad being very proud of the fact that he was the only "Bateman" in the local telephone book for south Manchester in the 1950's!!
So I always thought it was an unusual name - well you live and learn!
Cheers
Keith
-
now Ann Bateman father John Gibbs mother ann maria
died 1884 aged 55 kensington victoria 1884/8825
Jenn
Now from what you told me about marriages - does the same apply to deaths??
Is Kensington the place in Victoria where she died or the place in London where she was born!?
Keith
-
hello there Keith
no it is the place she died
also Bateman was the name of an explorer in Australia I think from my memorey
also there is a Bateman's Bay in NSW
regards jenn
-
there is a Bateman's Bay in NSW
Jenn
Yep - I remember finding that on a world atlas when I was at school - that was when Australia was coloured Red on the map!! ;D ;D
I thought then that my lot were convicts - turns out it was named after a member of Captain Cook's crew!!
Thought is was the place she died - but thought I had struck a new piece of information.
Another little aside -
My brother Roy Bateman is married to Win Gibbs!!
Can't be can it!! :o :o
Keith
-
hello there Keith
eeriie mate maybe one of them will be married to May Gibbs :-*
regards jenn
-
No Abraham Bateman's on my tree (at the moment)
Had a look at IGI and there are 2 - one born in Gloucestershire in 1817 - the other in Yorkshire in 1819
My lot came from Hertfordshire and worked their way down to London - ahh well - will put them down and see if/when they all meet up.
I also notice that he was 28 when he arrived in Oz NOT 25 as listed - but with a 19 years old wife - you can afford to make slight "errors"
Keith
-
Did find the following in the Probate indexes:-
George Barnsley of Campbell's Creek death 22/6/1858 Occupation: Licensed Victualler
Estate setted under Administration on 19th Aug 1858 Recipient: Anne Barnsley. Ref: 2/652
Genni
sorry edited this instead of quoting - have now deleted some of what I'd written.
Senior moment. :-\
Genni
-
Here's the Qld branch at rest at Pinnaroo
-
Oh Trish,
Pinaroo looks like a really lovely place to be.
What gorgeous pictures.
sue
-
Hi Sue
It's a lawn cemetery so no monuments - sadly so very dry at the minute. One part looked really lush - but I think it was new turf - this is the only lawn we are allowed to water at the minute (& not for much longer).
I find all cemeteries really peaceful & with this style there is usually no damage or yahoos around :)
Trish
-
hello there
thrisha I do hope that some of the rain that is coming across fits you guys we got about 30mls in the last 24 hours in our little area of Townsville a bit over an inch and desperatley needed
so more please
now did you go to the cemetery and take these pics for Keith you are a lovely helpfull person to do that
:-*
regards jenn
-
Hi All,
Haven't you all done well while I was fast asleep!!
And Trish - that is BRILLIANT - thank you ever so much.
Genni - that great as well - I am running out of adjectives here - I need that Headmaster to help me out!!
I have looked at maps/websites for all the places mentioned - Georgetown, Townsville - Williamstown etc - Thomas Scott Barnsley would be ever so pleased with the lesson he set me in Geography!!
I still can't get my head around the distances in Australia - if names are 30 miles away in this country in 1850 it means they are most probably not your lot!!
Only pity is that whereas I help out other RC's a bit by photographing the local churchyard in Whitchurch - which are like census returns really having Granny - father & siblings all on one headstone - the one Trish sent me doesn't (but still what a fantastic find!!!!)
To think I started this with a report of a Scott/Gates/Barnsley family leaving this country over 150 years ago and now I have a memorial to the same family!!
Now where are those smilies - never mind people moaning about the shape and colour of them!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Keith
-
Sometimes we score better memorials out here Keith but lawn cemeteries are a bit antiseptic (but, as I mentioned, safe from the vandals who seem to like breaking the headstones). If any of the Barnsleys in Toowong turn out to be yours, you may do better. I was a little disappointed that no children's names scored a mention - of interest was a nearby plaque - obviously new - and obviously provided by a family history nut - the grave was 25 years old, but the new plaque had date of birth date of death and the names of 11 childen ;D ;D
-
Did find the following in the Probate indexes:-
George Barnsley of Campbell's Creek death 22/6/1858 Occupation: Licensed Victualler
Estate setted under Administration on 19th Aug 1858 Recipient: Anne Barnsley. Ref: 2/652
I can check this out next time I go the the PROV.
Regards
Genni
No I haven't- but have found that he died as a result of mud slides while searching for Alluvial gold - I don't know the source of this information!!
We English don't"understand" weather - we talk/moan a lot about it - but our "bad weather" is very mild compared to you in Australia - I hope the rain spreads itself out a bit over the whole country - you would think in this day and age that we can go to the moon - that we could easily transfer water from south to north!
I think Jenn you sent me a link to the army records in Australia - I have the "yellow" search pages at NAA - but seem to have lost (already!!) the "brown" pages I went to before. [does that make any sense?!]
I must remember to eat - off for lunch! ::)
Keith
-
The naa search screens "die" keith. You have to go back to here and search again
http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/recordsearch.html
I've downloaded all the images for my folks - just in case they decide to take them offline one day
Trish
-
hello there
now Trisha that's a bloody good idea must do that
regards jenn
-
Hi All,
Just thought I would let you see the start of my new web-page - With some of the information you all collected for me.
I am having trouble with my footer/heading again - but will sort that out later! ::)
http://batemans-history.rootschat.net/offtoaustralia.htm
Thanks once again - lots more to add - both photos and information
Keith
-
Oh, I think that is fantastic.
It's like a book being published.
I wish I was clever enough to make such a beautiful presentation. Wel lDone.
I hope you will not think I'm nit-picking and you can make rude raspberries at me if you want, BUT what we are having weather -wise is a drought [why lawns are brown at Pinnaroo]
What you have said we're having is I think a small breezy thing!!draught.
Gentle smiles and kind intentions, Keith.
Sue
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Oh, I think that is fantastic.
It's like a book being published.
I wish I was clever enough to make such a beautiful presentation. Wel lDone.
I hope you will not think I'm nit-picking and you can make rude raspberries at me if you want, BUT what we are having weather -wise is a drought [why lawns are brown at Pinnaroo]
What you have said we're having is I think a small breezy thing!!draught.
Gentle smiles and kind intentions, Keith.
Sue
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Hi Keith,
Not sure if its any different for the unassisted passengers vs. the assisted passengers, but i just found some relatives of mine who came over in 1856 as assisted passengers. I ordered the file of the father of the family and received immigration sheets which list where each of them were born, the names of their parents - if they are alive or deceased & where they live, occupations and if they have any other family members in Australia - their names and where they live. It was a gold mine of information for me.
Not sure if this will help you, or if you already have this information on your family members.
Yolanda
-
Hmm sorry about that post... i didn't see that it was that long ago... or the posts since.... must be going cross eyed from all this stuff. :-\
-
Hi Sue,
Thanks for ALL your comments - even the spelling mistakes!!
Most of them are typing errors - but some are because I can't spell ;D ;D
Pity I did not read your comments before I have just added some more photos!! ::) ::) ::)
Yolanda,
Thanks for those comments - that is really where I came in - asking for advice on which records to get and which not.
I have ended up with a wealth of information - but still need to decide where other information is stored - both online and in records - and as important what NOT to get! ;)
Just seen you last comment Yolanda - nothing is ever tooo long for me - it's just my brain sometimes gets confused - I am sure it's nothing to do with my old age!!
Cheers
Keith
-
hello there Keith
here in Townsvile where the draught has broken now that reads a bit rude doesn't it?
I have found a couple of Barnsley buried in the West End Cemetery but I don;t know how they belong OK
young Mary barnsley died aged 18days in 1926 buried 21/6
Clara Johanna Barnsley died aged 20 in 1939 buried 20/12
she was living at 15 Vaughan Street West End
George Thomas Barnsely aged 21 months buried 4/3/1924 living at Ralston Street West End
Johanna Clara Killen aged 46 died in 1941 she is related but the chap couldn't figure out who's who in the plot
now I have to phone another chap after 4pm cause he is an expert of this cemetery and maybe able to tell me how Johanna killen is related etc
so it would appear that one of the Barnsley stayed in the Townsville area for some time but I can tell you there is none in the current phone book
regards Jenn
ps if thomas scott barnsley joined up in Townsville this could be part of his family
-
Hi Jenn,
Now will you all stop taking the mickey out of me and my spelling ;D ;D ;D
Thanks for those details - the way that the Barnsleys use middle names as family names makes me wonders about Clara Johanna Barnsley who must have been born 1919.
John Gates Barnsley's wife was Johanna Clara (Driscoll) and I have her alive in 1903 but at the moment no death.
I will make a note of them all and see what transpires.
Thanks
Keith
P.S. Update - Johanna must have been alive in 1916 as her son lists her as NOK living at Echlin Street West End, Townsville.
-
she was living at 15 Vaughan Street West End
Jenn
Going back to one of the original people - I have one down as born in Vaughan, Victoria - just a coincidence I presume!?
Must look to see if there is such a place.
Keith
-
hello there Keith
just that mate a coincidence two different places about 3000 kls apart
regards jenn
-
Hi Keith, watching your post, very good reading and Vaughan is an area around Castlemaine as well as Campbells Creek and Fryers Town. ~Donna
meant to say Vaughan Springs
-
Hi Jenn & Aussie4
Thanks for that information - I did realise that Victoria and Queensland towns could be far apart (aren't I getting good at this!!) ;D ;D
I just wondered if there were 2 places - which I now gather there were ::) ::)
Keith
-
Don't live far from Castlemaine and hope to get to the cemeteries down there for myself will see if I can get info on the Barnsley's also. ~Donna
-
That would be a lovely excursion Donna.
If Keith is following up his search with cemetery searches, I have always had a very good and prompt response from the people who hold cemetery records listed at the various sites on
http://www.ozgenonline.com
I see there are some contacts for the cemeteries in your Victorian interest areas Keith. not much online though, mostly email. Worth a go I say.
Sue
-
Hi Donna,
That would be brilliant - thanks 8) 8)
Keith
P.S. Any chance of some free samples from the local brewery?? ;D ;D
PPS - Thanks for those Sue - will have a look
-
Hi Keith
Re Johanna Barnsely
Not sure if you have looked at the embarkation rolls on the Aust War Memorial site? http://www.awm.gov.au/nominalrolls/ww1/embarkation/
John Gates Barnsley 23 slaughterman enlisted 10/10/1914 and listed his mother Johanna Barnsley (living in Innesfail Qld) as NOK;
Thomas Scott Barnsley 18 engine driver enlisted 8/07/1915 also lists mum (Johanna now in T'ville) as NOK.
So she was alive until at least July 1915.
Jane
-
P.S. Any chance of some free samples from the local brewery?? ;D ;D
Hi Keith
If your referring to "Castlemaine XXXX" it's brewed in Queensland, although Castlemaine Victoria is where it all started in 1857.
Cheers
Genni
-
hello there Keith
I have found a couple of Barnsley buried in the West End Cemetery but I don;t know how they belong OK
so it would appear that one of the Barnsley stayed in the Townsville area for some time but I can tell you there is none in the current phone book
regards Jenn
I'm sure these would be part of the family Jenn, but unsure where the family ended up if there are no other burials in Townsville. I found very few in the Brisbane cemeteries although there are some private crematoriums with no online information.
It doesn't seem to be a common name in the Qld BDMs - the ones I gave Keith are the total to 1914, so almost any that you find are probably related.
Trish
-
This can be useful to find all the war records for a person in the Australian records
http://www.awm.gov.au/find/index.asp
Trish
-
Hi Keith
I just drifted into this thread and came across Yolanda's comment on page 7. Hope you don't mind me aksing a question of her.
Yolandar, the immigration list you mentioned for assisted passengers which state was that in please?
Cheers
Bob
-
Hi Bob,
The assisted passengers was for Sydney, Port Phillip, Newcastle and for Moreton Bay in Qld - for various years. It was on the state records nsw webpage
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au
Hopefully your looking in this area.
Yolanda
-
'Scuse me Mr Bateman sir !
But would you stop hoggin' all the Australian information - and leave some for the rest of us !! ::) ::) ::)
As if the "you know what " isn't enough !! ....................... ;D
Puhleeeeeez !!
-
Hi All,
Thanks for all those links - still going through searching - is it correct on the BMD that all I can narrow it down to is a name and year (without paying anything!)
Jane - thanks for the link, which is a new one to me - but regarding the information - haven't you looked at my website :o :o ::) ::) ;D ;D - there are photos of the army records on there now!
It's all new this to me, as in England you can't get anything from the cemeteries - let alone on line - so please keep those links coming - even if I don't actually find anything I am sure others in this country will try them.
Keith
P.S. Hi Annie - but I have to keep mentioning - you know what - every 3rd reply!! :o :o
-
Hi Keith
Apologies for Annie's comment - that is all my fault - she sent me a query & I found very little to assist - told her she had to change her name to Bateman to get pages of information ;D - I don't think that went down very well :D :D
Meanwhile
Some states e.g. Qld and early Tasmania (could be others) give a full date in the indexes, but NSW and Victoria only give a year. For deaths, if you can find a cemetery record, you can get at least a burial/cremation date, which can lead to newspaper notices. Birth dates can be found for those who served in WWII, via the war service records.
Death certificates give the MOST information (different to England) IF the informant had the information. If the index has correct parent names, this is most likely. For a married couple, the certificate for the one who died first is usually the best, as the spouse is usually the informant.
Trish
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You don't have to apologise Trish .... Keith knows me well enough to put up with my complaining !! ;D ;D ;D
But if you ever want to know anything about trains .... he'll talk your ear off !! ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P
Have a great night Mr B !!
Annie :) :) :)
-
Hi Trish & Annie,
This is what makes this site great - you get loads of information - and meet such a "nice" crowd - even when they tell you off!! ;D ;D ;D
I will now have to narrow down which records I will buy - I think 97 is far to many!! ;D ;)
Keith
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hello ther Keith and Everyone
now re my comment
Johanna Clara Killen aged 46 died in 1941 she is related but the chap couldn't figure out who's who in the plot
now her name is Killian and he is going to check further for me but I recon that it is Johanna Clara nee barnsley born 26/12/1894 per Trisha's info
he says he has made marks in his record say the markers indicate relations in the plot very interesting
so will have to phone him back this evening
probably have to go look at the microfische's up to the 1960's to get a bit more info
regards jenn
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Hi Jenn,
That was what I thought - so now we need a marriage between Johanna Clara Barnsley and Mr Killian from about 1912 onwards!
At the moment nothing on her but her birth date.
Keith
-
You don't have to apologise Trish .... Keith knows me well enough to put up with my complaining !! ;D ;D ;D
But if you ever want to know anything about trains .... he'll talk your ear off !! ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P
Have a great night Mr B !!
Annie :) :) :)
Um Ah - but you told me you would leave the Bateman's out of the discussion - just can't trust a Liverpool Lass ;D ;D ;D
Enjoy
Trish
PS I like trains - travelled North, South and to the continent by train when we were in UK - not to mention the tube - but that sure gets a little warm in Summer - What ever happened to Mayor Ken offering thousands for someone to solve the problem?
-
Hi Jenn,
That was what I thought - so now we need a marriage between Johanna Clara Barnsley and Mr Killian from about 1912 onwards!
At the moment nothing on her but her birth date.
Keith
Marriage was probably after 1914. Need a trip to the library to check microfiche - One day :)
-
Oh yes Keith [re Reply #114]
We down here have been having our own private party ever since rootschat began.
The team has sent off many a satisfied UK customer, with pieces of information about their roaming immigrant ancestors.
Very often the facts given are totally removed from what was asked and expected and quite overwhelm the inquirer and it's all thanks to some excellent & little known resources and some amazing researchers.
Speaking of which
GOOD HUNTING JENN on that last posting.
What a kind guy to keep woring on it for you like that.
Sue
-
yes sue he is a total sweetheart "works" two days a week on resortation of the original cemetery finding who is buried where etc and then trying to find a bit more history on that person! so my or rathers keiths enquiry will help him with mor history!
regards jenn
ps Sue have a look at the link down the left hand side you will see west end cemetery ther are three tours very interesting I know you love cemeteries
http://www.townsville.qld.gov.au/heritage/heritage_day.asp
-
Re #112
Hi Yolandar, thanks for that. Problem is I'm looking at Victoria 1853. I believe their registers don't contain parents names etc.
Bob
-
Hi Bob
There is always more information on assisted immigrants than the unassisted - in any state, that I have found. (Guess the govts were looking after their money).
The NSW archives allow you to purchase prints from the microfiche/film which is may be what Yolander obtained or she visited - I have similar from Qld, printed at the archives from the microfilm.
If you post a separate query with your index search details you may find someone going to archives/library who can check the film/fiche.
Trish
-
Thanks Trish, will do that when I get home from work.
Bob
-
Keith
Hope these entries from the Qld Electoral Rolls will help things along as well, there were a few more but in the southern part of Qld, could get them next time.........only had a blunt pencil to write with today. Could have looked for the second marriage of Johanna but didn't realise until I read through it again........what a long thread ???
1903
John Gates Barnsley - Miner
Johanna Clara Barnsley - Domestic Duties
Living - Georgetown
Polling Place - Georgetown
Division - Kennedy
1913
James Barnsley - Carpenter
Edith Annie Barnsley
Living - Nashville, Walsey St, Sandgate
Division - Lilley (Nundah)
John Gates - Butcher
Johanna Barnsley - Home Duties
Living - Stockton
Division - Herbert (Geraldton)
George Barnsley - Engine Driver
Living - Flinders St
Division - Herbert (Townsville)
1922
Frances Gates Barnsley - Nurse
Living - Shaw St, West End
Division - Herbert (Townsville)
also another entry for Frances, must have been registered in two places
Frances Gates Barnsley - Nurse
Living - District Hospital
Division - Herbert (Mackay)
Annie Gates Barnsley - School Teacher
Living - Pumping Station
Division - Kennedy (Charters Towers)
George Barnsley - Engine Driver
Irene Teresa - Home Duties
Living - Ralston St, West End
Division - Herbert (Townsville)
Johanna Barnsley Snr - Home Duties
Pauline Barnsley - Telephonist
Thomas Scott Barnsley - Butcher
Living - Shaw St, West End
Division - Herbert (Townsville)
John Barnsley - Butcher
Living - Kirk and Jacob's Butchers, Innisfail
Division - Herbert (Innisfail)
Cazay
-
what a long thread
Cazay
And what a brilliant one!! ;D
I can't believe the wealth of information you are able to get at in Australia. The way you calmly say "hope these will help" - when I have never even seen one in England - old or new!!
I had a quick look for the dates these were taken - but can't find the actual date - obviously the 1903 one was taken before May 20th (I hope!!) as that is the date of death I have for John Gates Barnsley.
Brilliant - keep all this "stuff" coming - it might stop me from getting any sleep - but hey who cares when my fingers are working so fast entering all the information! ;D
Cheers
Keith
-
hello there Keith
now Johana clara Barnsley married Patrick sylvestor Killian in 1920 regno 1920/003849
so that is her buried in the West End cemetery in 1941
a few deaths and with cazay information on the electoral some of it will make sense I hope
Johanna Clara Barnsley died 18/7/1952 reg no 1952 003320 father Edward Daniel Driscoll mother Sarah Towers
James Barnsley died 9/7/1944 Brisbane reg no B066973
only parents name is Barnsley
George Barnsley died 27/1/1962 reg no B0495622
father John Gates Barnsley and mother Clara Johanna Driscoll
John Gates Barnes died 18/6/1960 reg no 003455 father
john gates barnsley mother Clara Driscoll
Clara Johanna Barnsley Died 19/12/1939 reg no 19400012244 father george Barnsley mother Irene Teresa Larkin
Edith Anne Barnsley died 25/6/1947 B012209
father william green mother mary anne baker
Stephen Ross Barnsley died 1/4/1959 reg no 01761 father Edward Barnsley no mothers details
probably wouldn't hurt to check out the innisfail cemetery will do that tomorrow
hope this helps a bit unfortunately no ages are given on Qld deaths index or microfisches
regards jenn
-
Hello ther Keith
found in the Towong Cemetery
Irene Theresa Folkes buried 17/8/1878 aged 80 years
in the same grave
George Barnsley buried 30/1/1962 aged 72 years
I can't see George's birth amongst all this have I missed seeing it?
regards jenn
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Hello ther Keith
found in the Towong Cemetery
Irene Theresa Folkes buried 17/8/1878 aged 80 years
in the same grave
George Barnsley buried 30/1/1962 aged 72 years
I can't see George's birth amongst all this have I missed seeing it?
regards jenn
Hi Jenn
Have a look on page 3 - just too many answers on this thread :o :o
John Gates Barnsley m Johanna Clara Driscoll 2 Mar 1889 1889/000690
George Barnsley born 8 December 1889 1889/004002 parents John Gates and Johanna Driscoll
There are a couple of other Barnsleys in Brisbane Cemeteries as well - mainly slightly younger generation - but not very many
Trish
Edit: Guess I should have added them
Dudley at Toowong (cremated) 2 July 1998 aged 73
Eliza Jane 26/5/1966 aged 88 at Hemmant - I've never been to that cemetery - must be almost the only one in Brisbane I haven't been to.
Erica, Eric and Theresa May at Lutwyche
-
Hi All,
Going through and entering all the details - thanks again.
Only one that I haven't got as "mine" (yet) is James Barnsley in 1913 electoral rolls - are "other" Barnsley allowed into Queensland!! :o :o
I need a rest from all of this........... - I am off to the local library - they have a "Family History For All" with a guest speaker from Shropshire Archives - wonder if she knows as much as you "lot" ;D ;D ;D
Now where are those Rootschat information cards.
Keith
-
Hi Keith
Do "report back" I've never been to an "official" how do you do it & often wonder if perhaps I should.
Re James Barnsley & Edith - I did transcribe all the Barnsleys in Qld to 1914 from the CDs so not sure where this pair came from. Someone will no doubt find out
If they were old enough to vote in 1913 (Women got the vote in Oz in 1901 - a while before UK, but I think NZ was earlier) - he may have seen service in WWI.
Trish
-
Hi All,
Back from the Family History meeting - interesting - but more for the beginners - at least I told the lady from Shropshire Archives about Rootschat - she was really pleased to have first hand information - also gave out a few RC business cards!
I keep entering all the information and making notes like "who was Clara Barnsley" then crossing them out when I come to more information on her!! ;)
However a few points:
On the Electoral Rolls in says "Herbert" then lists Innisfail, Townsville and Mackay on 3 separate items - I presume Herbert was the area - so does that mean the 3 towns all have a similar named area - or have I messed up again!
George Barnsley must have married Irene Teresa Larkin about 1918 - any chance of confirmation - plus she was buried with George - but named as Folkes!? Does that mean she married again after his death - when she was nearly 70?
3 deaths not found their parents - but presume that George Thomas Barnsley who died in 1924 had parents of George & Irene as they were also living in Ralston St in the 1922 Electoral rolls
No sign of Minnie and or Mary (1 or 2 people!) born 1903
You have a death of Edith Ann Barnsley - she must have married one of my lot - think it must have been John Gates Barnsley (presume after the 1922 rolls as she is not down on them) - unless one the the others married twice!!
Think that's all the queries (for now!) :o :o :o ::) ::) ::)
Except just to confirm what I think Trish said - that is that on death certificates they list the names of children born to the person - and to get the certificate of the one parent who died first.
I did mention to the meeting this afternoon about what a fabulous job you had all done with regards to tracing all my newly found relatives -and having photos to prove it! They were most impressed 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Cheers
Keith
-
Hi Keith
Nice to have confirmed that some of the sessions are for beginners - seems amazing that after a couple of years on RootsChat, one starts to feel a level of "experience" creeping in - It is the best training ground I have come accross - have learnt so much here about researching and sources!
Back to Queensland. "Herbert is the electoral division (district or whatever you may call them). Qld is physically large but most of the population is in the S.E. Consequently the Northern and Western electoral divisions cover a large physical area with a smaller population - so the 3 towns mentioned all vote for the same MP - He has alot of travelling to do to visit his constituents!
I will get to the library (although someone else may do it first) and check more BDMs. Births are available to 1919, marriages to 1939 and Deaths to 1964, so this may tie up some loose ends. Maybe next weekend we'll stop off at Toowong Cemetery - it may be more like what you are used to ;D and see if there is a headstone for George or Dudley (whoever he may be).
IF the informant knows the information, death certificates should contain
When died, Where died
Name, Rank/Profession, Sex, Age
Cause of Death, Duration of last illness Medical attendant when he last attended
Name of father, Rank/Profession, Name of Mother
Informant Description Residence
District Registrar Date Where Registered
Burial Where Undertaker Minister Witness
Where Born Years in each Aust state
Where married Age at marriage To whom
Living issue (name and age)
Dead issue (usually only the number)
Trish
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Hi Trish,
Living issue (name and age)
Dead issue (usually only the number)
That might be the interesting bit - will have a look for who might be the best ones to get certificates for - unless you lot have done everything for me ;) ;D
Ah I see what Herbert is now - so it's really the towns that matter. ;)
Yes you don't realise how "experienced" you are until you get in a group with beginners - but the speaker did apologise at the start by saying she might be going over old stuff for some people.
Cheers
Keith
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That might be the interesting bit - will have a look for who might be the best ones to get certificates for - unless you lot have done everything for me ;) ;D
Because our indexes contain parents, I don't buy many certificates - I sometimes get the death certificates for the 20th century, because that helps to take the line forward - given that we have no access to recent births and marriages. To work backwards I will get 19th century marriage certificates as they give parents and place of birth - although when it just says "England" it doesn't always help. Slightly better than when it just says "Ireland" :(
Trish
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Hi Keith,
(and Trish too - your help would be appreciated here)
I am going to the State Archives next week (when the kids are back at school after 6 l-o-n-g weeks holiday. I can't wait!
Anyhow, I would be happy to do some lookups for you. I HAVE been reading this thread, but if you could put into a concise form exactly what you require look-up wise, I'd appreciate that (you know, names, dates etc). I would hate to get it wrong.
Being more experienced Trish will have more knowledge of what is available. Trish, do you think it would be worthwhile looking for wills/intestacies too? Would they be northern district?
Let me know if you need any help.
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Should also have mentioned - If any of the Qlders have a will (that went through probate) - the local archives have details of same AND from c. 1895 they contain a death certificate - which one can transcribe for free or get a copy for $1.10 ;D ;D
Trish
Just saw Ruskie's post
Could you check for wills (great minds think alike!!). There are very few folks by the name of Barnsley in the Qld indexes - so picking up anything with that surname will probably give a relative ;D ;D
On about page 2 or 3 I have listed the details of the folks who came to Qld / or were born here viz
John Gates Barnsley m Johanna Clara Driscoll 2 Mar 1889 1889/000690
George Barnsley born 8 December 1889 1889/004002 parents John Gates and Johanna Driscoll
All the following have parents John Gates Barnsley and Johanna Clara Driscoll
Annie Gates 01 Jan 1893 1893/004305
Frances Gates 14 Apr 1901 1901/004297
Johanna Clara 26 Dec 1894 1895/004484
John 2 Sep 1891 1891/004785
Mary 14 Mar 1903 1903/003766
Minnie 14 mar 1903 1903/003766
(If they are twins, should be 2 numbers, there may be a transcription error, or only 1 person)
Pauline 28 Feb 1899 1899/004298
Thomas 21 Dec 1896 1897/004265 (not indexed with the Scott)
There are 2 other Barnsley records
Muriel Bradford Barnsley born 19 Aug 1912 no father given mother Annie Barnsley 1912/008478
Death John Gates Barnsley father George Barnsley Mother Annie Gates 20 May 1903 1903/001806
These are the only barnsleys to 1914 on the CDs
Re the Will district - some are buried in Brisbane so would have to check North & South I would think
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Hi Ruskie,
I would be happy to do some lookups for you. I HAVE been reading this thread, but if you could put into a concise form exactly what you require look-up wise, I'd appreciate that (you know, names, dates etc)
That's very kind of you - didn't realise I had "picked" such an unusual name - a bit like my mother's maiden name - Partington - there are 1000's of them in Lancashire - 3 cousins moved to Devon in the 1850's and they were the only ones on some of the census records in that county!
I "think" Trish has listed most - but will check on others as I go through my software. As you say there are lots of them that everyone has found for me.
I don't really do all this "just" to collect names - but love to look at the area and jobs that they were doing - you might have noticed one of them was a butcher - so I liked this photo I just found of a butchers shop in Queensland 1925 - the time John Gates Barnsley was also a butcher!
Cheers
Keith
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hello ther Keith
now seeing you like history here is abit for you
I notice that one of the lads going off to WW1 worked as a slaughterman for the Garbutt Brothers in Townsville
now Garbutt is a suburb of townsville which is named after the Garbutt brothers The Garbutt's have been around town for some time I knew one or two of them at school NOt the orginal brothers but their ancestors!
the raaf base and airport in townsville is at Garbutt a guick google to see if I could find out anything and I did
the Railway siding at Garbutt was called Garbuttt siding cause Garbutt wholesale butchers was their biggest customer and then the airport was called Garbutt airport for years till it was changed to townsville.
So it would appear that some of the others were butchers as well Townsville still has a big meatworks for the area
so a bit of useless but interesting info for you keith
regards jenn
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Hi Jenn,
Yep that's the sort of "useless" information I love ;D
I did try for the other butchers where he was working in 1922 - Kirk and Jacob's Butchers in Innisfail - but haven't yet found them!
Haven't I got enough to do ;D ;D ;D ;D
Keith
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Thanks for that Trish - I've got to go out now, but will re-read the whole thread properly later and no doubt have a few more questions for you and Keith before I trip off to the Archives (I love that place!) next week.
First question while I think of it Trish - how many years after the death would you say is reasonable to search for willls?
Love the butcher's shop photo Keith - I guess that would have had the old butcher's block (ie HUGE tree trunk) inside and the floor covered with sawdust, and dead animals hanging from the ceiling.
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hey there
there was still butchers shops like that when we came to townsville in 1957 and there was shops like that all over australia even remember one in the early 70's in a very little town in SA called port wakefield the butcher was as rough as his meat
regards jenn
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Hello Jenn
So glad you cleared up this little issue
I knew one or two of them at school NOT the original brothers but their ancestors! ;D ;D ;D
Hi Ruskie
I usually search up to about 5 years after death for a will - if they died intestate it sometimes takes much longer - if you haven't searched for them before - it is really easy in the books to go from year to year. The writing is sometimes very small - easy to miss a name & each year is only alphabetical to the first letter (if my memory is correct - doubtful at my age) - but I think I missed a couple not realising it was by date after the first letter of the name.
The early ones are on microfilm - later ones you have to order the paper copies - takes about 20-30 min to turn up
Trish
PS There were butchers shops like that when I grew up in NSW - now I feel OLD
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Thanks Trish,
Yes, I've searched for many of my rellies wills so have a reasonable idea how to go about it. And have viewed a couple on microfilm too. Five years seems reasonable but for some of my "in vain" ones I went beyond five years. Hopefully I will be able to dig up something for Keith (he seems a nice guy, sshh, but don't tell him I said that!)
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Hi Keith, was walking past the library today and couldn’t resist going in and remembered George Barnsley died in 1858 and knew they have copies of local papers so looked up George found his death notice.
Mt Alexander Mail, 28 June 1858,
Deaths, Page 8
On the 22nd at his own house, the John O’groats Hotel, Campbells Creek Mr George Barnsley, late of Penrith, England. Age 35yrs
Inquest
Barnsley George
Year: 1858
Age: 35yrs
Place: Castlemaine
Case: Water on the Brain
Occupation: Publican
Ref: 518
So the Scottish link continued with the hotel also. ~Donna
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Hi Donna,
Many thanks for that - I have got you all well trained haven't I ;D ;D ;D :o ::)
So much for dieing in a mud slide (don't think water on the brain is the same!)
I have down that he was born in St Andrew, Penrith, Cumberland, England and on the 1851 census it states he was a School Master - presume there was more money to be made as a Publican!
Right, now I have seen some photos of old pubs in OZ - must see if this one is down!!?
Hopefully I will be able to dig up something for Keith (he seems a nice guy, sshh, but don't tell him I said that!)
Ruskie
Will you stop spreading rumours about me!! ;D ;D 8) 8)
Cheers
Keith
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Who,me?
Looks like he might have left a will then - having a pub and all.
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Looks like he might have left a will then - having a pub and all.
ahhhh that's a thought ;)
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Did find the following in the Probate indexes:-
George Barnsley of Campbell's Creek death 22/6/1858 Occupation: Licensed Victualler
Estate setted under Administration on 19th Aug 1858 Recipient: Anne Barnsley. Ref: 2/652
Genni
Hi Guys
He didn't leave a will. His estate was settled under Administration. When I manage to get to the PROV, i'll order it, a copy the pages.
Genni
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Some more Barnsleys for you............should be able to do a few more matchups
Births
Catherine Maud Barnsley 19/9/1917, George Barnsley & Irene Teresa Larkin 1919/011941
Clara Johanna 2/2/1919, George Barnsley & Irene Teresa Larkin 1919/003714
Another death, don't think it was given before
Erica May 6/8/1928, Eric James Barnsley & Theresa May Harvey 1928/B005271
Marriages
George Barnsley 30/8/1916 Teresa Larkin 16/002125
Eric James Barnsley 7/10/1922 Theresa May Harvey 1922/003456
Howard Barnsley 18/7/1923 Mary Josephine Winifred Alldridge 1923/002621
Ronald Clinton Barnsley 6/7/1922 Alice May Dickman 1922/002079
Annie Gates Barnsley 2/12/1929 William Maloney 1929/B007499
Thomas Scott Barnsley 28/10/1925 Catherine Mulreany 1925/003035
Vera Barnsley 10/8/1929 Leslie Rees Jones 1929/B006531
Clive Barnsley 22/9/1934 Netta Clare Perry 1934/004118
Frances Gates Barnsley 26/4/1932 Jeremiah Maloney 1932/001778
Pauline Barnsley 21/9/1933 Samuel Clark Williams 1933/B0016493
Catherine Maud Frances Barnsley 14/10/1939 Gervase Warren Tristrail Kirton 1939/005218
Elizabeth Barnsley 12/3/1936 Richard Thomas John Walker Groom 1936/B024214
Irene Theresa Barnsley 1/7/1939 Clifford James Kirby 1939/003725
The marriage for Elizabeth Barnsley I have entered the husband's name as it is on the fiche but maybe his surname is Walker?
Will try to get the other names that were in the electoral rolls and they may show up in cemeteries in the south of Qld as well. I think there is more waiting to be found for this family. I can't help you with electoral rolls beyond 1925 so someone else may have access to them around Brisbane. How are your fingers Keith?
Cazay
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Burials at Mt Gravatt Cemetery, Lawn Portion L10, Grave 861
Irene Theresa Kirby buried 21/8/1981 aged 60
Clifford James Kirby buried 15/2/1996 aged 81
Cazay
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Hi Cazay,
That's brilliant - will go through them all now - but I see straight off that most of them are mine - hopefully all of them!
I was going to tell you all about the 2 new webpages on my site - but unfortunately/fortunately my site seems to have become toooo popular just at the moment and I have exceeded my (free) bandwidth - so for the start of February have a look here:
http://batemans-history.rootschat.net/photosofaustralia.htm
http://batemans-history.rootschat.net/oftoaustralia.htm
It must be with all the new information everyone has given me lately - just to much for "them" to cope with - well it will at least give me chance to get all the details up to date.
I have also sent the Castlemaine Historical Society an email - asking for any detail that might help me even further - so watch out for even more questions!!?
Cheers
Keith
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Hi Cazay,
Just going through entering them with my "stubby" fingers!! ;D ;D
One slight query that I don't suppose you can answer?!
You found this marriage:
Irene Theresa Barnsley 1/7/1939 Clifford James Kirby 1939/003725
Now you also gave me the marrage of George Barnsley and (Irene) Teresa Larkin in 1916 - which fits in fine.
I also have the death of George Barnsley in 1962.
So do you think the person who married in 1939 is his wife (after a divorce I hope!) or another daughter of theirs that we haven't found yet??
Cheers
Keith
Update.
Just reached the deaths at the bottom - so therefore there is a daughter Irene Theresa Barnsley that was born 1921!
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Keith, there is also a service record at NAA for Clifford James Kirby born 21 Jan 1914 Cardiff ENG........NOK is Irene Kirby
Burial at Mt Gravatt looks to be them also, Irene's birth approx 1920
Cazay
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Hi Keith
"Irene Theresa" seems to be a name of interest
George Barnsley is buried with Irene Theresa Folkes (died 1878) I wonder if she remarried later in life after George died (1962).
Trish
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George Barnsley must have married Irene Teresa Larkin about 1918 - any chance of confirmation - plus she was buried with George - but named as Folkes!? Does that mean she married again after his death - when she was nearly 70?
Keith
Somewhere (page 9?) I asked that question - (first part answered) 2nd bit is about the only thing not yet answered!! ;D ;D
Cheers
Keith
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Hi Cazay,
I have now entered all the details I can from the information supplied - that was great.
There are some Barnsleys that are either not mine :o :o - or I don't have them down (yet!)
Another death, don't think it was given before
Erica May 6/8/1928, Eric James Barnsley & Theresa May Harvey 1928/B005271
Howard Barnsley 18/7/1923 Mary Josephine Winifred Alldridge 1923/002621
Ronald Clinton Barnsley 6/7/1922 Alice May Dickman 1922/002079
Vera Barnsley 10/8/1929 Leslie Rees Jones 1929/B006531
Clive Barnsley 22/9/1934 Netta Clare Perry 1934/004118
Elizabeth Barnsley 12/3/1936 Richard Thomas John Walker Groom 1936/B024214
Everything else is definitely "mine" ;D ;D 8) 8)
I think that is BRILLIANT
Thanks again
Keith
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Hi All,
This is taken from my website!
What about this fantastic sketch I found on the Picture Collection at the State Library of Victoria. It shows the tent where Dr Richard Bunce carried out his medical practice in 1853 in Fryers Creek near Castlemaine. Now is my imagination running wild - but I have 4 of my 1st cousins who were born in Fryers Creek from 1852 -59 - do you think that Dr Bunce helped with their births?
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hello there Keith
sorry mate my crystal ball has fogged up can't quite see who the doctor is doing the delivery :-X
jenn
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hello there Keith
looks like the Queensland connection is covered now off to Victoria
for a look at the family of Anne Scott Barnsley
who marrried Charles Joseph Wilcher
this family settled around Williamstown ( in fact one of the sons Francis Walter Scott Wilcher gets a mention in a genie book about Williamstown call the Prows of the Port no haven't seen it though)
children born
Louis Geo 1877 WTown ref 19520
Marian Annie 1879 Will ref 6260
Charles Joseph 1881 Will 6369
Francis Walter Scott 1883 Will 20675
Percival Howard 1888 WTown 25778
Elsie May 1894 Wtown 7899
Anne Wilcher Died WMStown aged 80 in 1935 ref 9772 fathr George Barnsley mother Ann Gates
Charles Jospeh Wilcher died WTown aged 89 in 1937 ref 8007
father Lewis Wilcher mother Marion Wilson
a search of cemeteries found Charles buried in Altona but interestingly enough with his son francis and his wife and his (Charles) brother Lewis John (died1913)
I could not find anything on Louis Geo and Charles Joseph jnr but others might it is possible they also headed u p to Qld.
Francis Wilcher married Minnie Fran Williams in 1908/4306 (no children by the look of it) he has died
1960 aged 76 at Williamstown ref 7477
Minnie Frances Wilcher died in 1964 aged 88 at Williamstown 8766 father Elya Williams mother Eliza Glenister
Marian Wilcher married Robert Wright Flett in 1913 4999
she died 1948 aged 69 at Williamstown ref 12088
they had the following children at williamstown
Francis Norman 1920 /8264 died in 1924
Jean Scott 1916 /8188
Jno Chas 1918/31747
Robt Jno 1917/ 16730 died 1918/15123
she is buried with hubby and the two little ones in the same plot in Altona as well
Elsie May Wilcher married three entries for this cause the last name was confusing Haldane Frankland-Bell in 1923
she died Elsie May Frankland Bell Hberg aged 44 in 1938 11353
Percival Howard Wilcher married Louie Marie Glowaski in 1923 7331
he died in1969 aged 81 at Morn ref 12845
regards jenn
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Now is my imagination running wild - but I have 4 of my 1st cousins who were born in Fryers Creek from 1852 -59 - do you think that Dr Bunce helped with their births?
I'm losing track of all these names - hope you have them sorted keith :D - Look at the names of the children to the family who may have been assisted by Dr Bunce & check out his given names. If any are the same - the odds are good he helped. I have a couple of families where the children were given names that came from the Doctor who was the district doctor where they lived. You may even find "Bunce" as a given name - given to a child by parents greatful for his assistance.
Trish
And what's with the 1850s first cousins ??? ??? Are you truly 157 years old - a scientific miracle ;D ;D
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It seems from the inscription, that Irene Theresa Barnsley & children buried husband George in 1962, then Irene remarried & her 2nd husband and her children buried Irene with George in 1978. I haven't checked for a burial for husband 2.
Trish
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Well Jenn.
The mention that Francis Walter Scott Wilcher gets may be to say that he was Mayor of Williamstown from 1927 to 1928
I found a pictue of him.
Almost into royalty now Keith !
sue
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Dudley may perhaps have been a son of George - it seems likely from the inscription that he didn't marry. There is a war service record on the national archives - which has been digitised. Given that WWII records are not yet auto digitised, someone else may have been looking for him.
His place of birth is given as Toowoomba, so we may find more of the family there. His next of kin is given as mother Theresa (wonder about father George?) - did we find him doing service as well?
There is a picture of him in the War file - Does he look like a Bateman Keith?
mmm - now I have a problem, in the war record Mother is Mrs T M Barnsley - not I T or T I might be a different family - drat
Here is a wee picture anyway - the memorial read so nicely :)
Trish
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Well Jenn.
The mention that Francis Walter Scott Wilcher gets may be to say that he was Mayor of Williamstown from 1927 to 1928
I found a pictue of him.
Almost into royalty now Keith !
sue
where's the picture Sue
regards jenn
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Jenn I just did google Aust pages before and linki s long and needs shrinking o n the thingy and i have to watch the tennis
Maybe Wlcher Williamstoon
sorry hasty S.
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Hi All,
I am sure I have said this before but "Thank You!" ;D ;D
Just waking up (after all it is only 10-45am here!! :o :o)
Will go through all the details now!
And yes Trish I have them all down - and according to my software 4 of them are my first cousins 3 times removed!!
And 2 of them we haven't even started on yet!!! :o :o :o :o :o
They are to Ann Gates (1820) by her 2nd marriage to Samuel Kemp - Samuel Kemp born 1862 in Fryers Creek and Elspeth Cowie Kemp born 1859 in Vaughan.
So you see they are all down and most of them seem like "real" people - having more information on most than I have on my first cousins born in England!! ;)
Off to have breakfast now ::) ::)
Back shortly to read all the data properly - when my eyes open :o
Cheers
Keith
P.S.Have you realised I have become a "night-time person" ;D
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P.S.Have you realised I have become a "night-time person"
Now we shall call you a night time cousin ;D ;D
And do you realise this thread is 12 pages long!! I don't think I have this many family in Australia & they came here in 1833 Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Trish
I will send the other photos from Toowong via email - I got sidelined watching the tennis - much more interesting than cricket - no doubt you enjoyed it too Sue
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Hi All,
Back - refreshed - fed and watered!
Entering all the information.
a search of cemeteries found Charles buried in Altona but interestingly enough with his son Francis and his wife and his (Charles) brother Lewis John (died1913)
Jenn
A bit "lost" with this one Jenn - it that the Charles born 1848 - died 1937 and is he buried with Francis & Minnie Frances Wilcher who were also both buried in Williamstown?
Must check is Altona and Williamstown the same place?
Adding rest now ;)
Cheers
Keith
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a search of cemeteries found Charles buried in Altona but interestingly enough with his son Francis and his wife and his (Charles) brother Lewis John (died1913)
Jenn
A bit "lost" with this one Jenn - it that the Charles born 1848 - died 1937 and is he buried with Francis & Minnie Frances Wilcher who were also both buried in Williamstown?
Must check is Altona and Williamstown the same place?
Adding rest now ;)
Cheers
Keith
yes mate the father of the clan died in 1937 buried with his brother and one of his sons and his wife they are all in the same grave
jenn
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Have discovered this family in northern NSW, Ballina and Grafton - James Barnsley married Edith A Green in 1896
Children - Leslie D 1896, Eric J 1897, Ronald C 1901, Edith A 1903 and Clive 1905 (could be more after this)
Maybe the electoral roll Barnsleys who look a bit foreign and you are unable to place are from this family. They may have ventured over the border into Qld. I found two deaths at Mt Thompson Crematorium for Edith Annie Barnsley 25/6/1947 and James Barnsley 92 yrs 9/7/1944
The other electoral roll entries I got today (1922) were for Eric James at Wide Bay, Edith Annie at Sandgate, Leslie Devine at Sandgate, Howard at Stanthorp, Howard at Warwick, so also look to be this family. Won't bother you with all the other details unless you think they are connected.
Trish got some nice pics there........Is it possible that Dudley could be the son of Eric James Barnsley and Theresa May Harvey ???
Now onto the positive side..........!!!
Burial at Georgetown Cemetery for John Gates (they have him as Barmsley) aged 54 yrs, buried 21 May 1903, Miner
Burials at West End Cemetery Townsville
Clara Johanna Barnsley age 20 1939
George Thomas Barnsley age 1 1924
I have a few papers which I will need to send by email to you......but.......not just yet as the scanner isn't working, hoping to get it back in a couple of days.
Cazay
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hoping to get it back in a couple of days.
Cazay
Can I wait that looooong ;D ;D ;D ;D
I have found on IGI (well that's all we have over here!!) - James Barnsley married Edith Annie Green in 1895 in South Grafton, NSW - parents John Devaynes Barnsley and Elizabeth. Husband's age at marriage 42 (born c1853?)
So "maybe" John is a brother of "my" George - but as "my" lot were origanally the Gates family - I don't think maybe I will go down that road "yet"
I have enough to work on with "actual" blood line!
I wonder if Francis Walter Scott Wilcher thought he was named after the explorer - whereas I think he was named after both his mother and grandmother Ann Scott born in Crosthwaithe, Cumberland in 1791!!
Now about this mayor??!!
Keith
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Dudley may perhaps have been a son of George - it seems likely from the inscription that he didn't marry. There is a war service record on the national archives - which has been digitised. Given that WWII records are not yet auto digitised, someone else may have been looking for him.
His place of birth is given as Toowoomba, so we may find more of the family there. His next of kin is given as mother Theresa (wonder about father George?) - did we find him doing service as well?
There is a picture of him in the War file - Does he look like a Bateman Keith?
mmm - now I have a problem, in the war record Mother is Mrs T M Barnsley - not I T or T I might be a different family - drat
Here is a wee picture anyway - the memorial read so nicely :)
Trish
Hi Trish,
I still haven't worked out how to get all the records from Australia - I have seen his digital image record (attestation form) but where do I see the photo??
Cheers Keith
P.S. Hope Dudley is one of mine as it is a great photo Trish!! ;)
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I think you will find the attestation form is simply page 1 of the digital image file. If you go through the pages (from memory he only had about 18), you will get to the one containing his photo.
Most of the WWII files include the photo - it's like a passport photo - the one of my Dad has him with dark curly hair ;D - from earliest memory of mine - he was almost bald - so it was nice to see he did once have a lovely head of hair!
I actually download all the image pages - they have an option for a "larger" image for each page (you have to click it for EVERY PAGE) & I do that & then save the pages.
Trish
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Can I wait that long ? YES
I would be giving them a miss for a while too, your head must be spinning a little there with all these Barnsley's everywhere
The Victorian ones might have strolled on over the border into NSW, moving a little further north before deciding Qld was the best choice........maybe
Came across some info which points to Muriel Barnsley born 1912 marrying William A G Hartigan 3247/1934 Marrickville (NSW indexes)
Cazay
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Can I wait that long ? YES
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ::)
I would be giving them a miss for a while too, your head must be spinning a little there with all these Barnsley's everywhere
I must remember to eat!! ;)
It's a good job their name wasn't Smith or Jones!! ;D ;D
Thanks for your help - go and have a hot drink and a nice rest :)
Cheers
Keith
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So "maybe" John is a brother of "my" George - but as "my" lot were origanally the Gates family - I don't think maybe I will go down that road "yet"
You are SUCH a "lucky duck" Keith Bateman !! .............. I can't believe all this stuff you're getting !!
But PLEASE PLEASE don't be telling us you're related to Bill Gates now !!
Otherwise you'll be coming to my side of the world !!
Annie ;D
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You're not going to believe this Annie..............................
I have a William Gates born in California - but haven't even started on that side - yet!!!
What are you doing tomorrow :o :o :o :o ;)
Aren't I a "lucky duck" - and just think it was only as an after-though I put my original question - I thought I had read there were no census records kept for Australia - so that would be that!!
Little did I know the power of Rootschatters!! 8) 8) 8)
Cheers
Keith
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Good morning Keith
as you pointed out we haven't touched on the two Kemp children
Samuel Kemp born Fyrers creek in 1862
and Elspet Cowie Kemp born Vaughan in 1859
by your relo's link on the Kemp's Samuel had George as a middle name
now I cannot easily find them in the Victoria records no deaths with the parents names etc
did find the following
birth in Victoria
Samuel John Kemp born Glen 1886 reg no 18676
no father given but mother is
Elipet Conie Kemp !
so mmmmm
regards Jenn
of and Keith "may the force be with you"
(that's the great Southern Force)
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Hi Jenn,
Good morning - hope you had a nice breakfast! ;)
birth in Victoria
Samuel John Kemp born Glen 1886 reg no 18676
no father given but mother is
Elipet Conie Kemp !
Well well well - that looks to good to be true! ;)
As you have realised I am still not good at working out how to get the information from Oz BMD - there is a Samuel George Kemp marriage in Victoria in 1885 but not sure if it is "mine"
I am off to make supper shortly - doesn't seem so long ago since I said I was off to make breakfast - doesn't time fly when you enjoying yourself!! ;D ;D
Cheers
Keith
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Just looked at my notes again!!
I had found the birth of Samuel John Kemp - but presumed it might be the son of Samuel George Kemp.
Thinking that Elspet's surname would have changed!!
Don't jump to conclusions Keith ;D :o
Keith
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/016b/
This is the little picture of your royal ancestor.
I think you can order a copy by following prompts.
He is apparently standing in front of his palace which appears to be a tent.
But truly in case you are not familiar with the system of local govt. here, the Mayor is elected by his fellow local councillors to head up the Council for a prescribed period.
The council is responsible for local civic matters within the municipality roads, rubbish, stray dogs etc. I,m sure you get the picture.
Nevertheless, it is a position of some prestige and shows your lot were of good stock.
Sue
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Hi Sue
He is apparently standing in front of his palace which appears to be a tent.
It does look like that doesn't it ;D
That's brilliant thank you 8) 8) 8)
I seem to keep saying that to all of you - but it still is :)
Right now to read about copywrite!
Cheers
Keith
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I wonder if they were usually only for 1 year periods - must have a read of that - or did he get "overthrown"!!
Keith
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Now there will be someone who knows more about this than me to help you, but yes it is for a one year period BUT you can have many goes at it, both consecutively and irregularly.
S
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Hi Sue
I was just going through the rest of the photos on the site - and it seems most were only voted in for 1 year!
So some things are the same as in England - all talk and no action - kick 'em off and get the next one! ;D
I have written to them for permission to place it one my website!
Cheers
Keith
P.S. That's 2 different photo I have asked permission for!!
The Doctors and the Mayors - aren't I coming up in the world ;D
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I have also found out who the present Mayor of Williamstown is and have sent him an email asking for help!!
I did tell him that I could not vote for him at the next election!!
Keith
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Hi All,
Just been reading that letter from Garbutt the butchers, the employers of George Barnsley - which states that he had 2 brothers at the front (checks) - and 5 sisters.
I/we have 4 plus the Minnie/Mary one from 1903 with only 1 reg. no. - this now looks like the same person!
Like to keep you all informed of what's going on!
Now we have nothing else about her - anyone find her marriage/death please?!
Old Lancashire saying - "nowt like cheek" - mum was a proud Lancastrian - not sure if she would like to know that's about all I picked up from her :o :o :o
Cheers
Keith
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hello there Keith
I too have an ancestor that was a Mayor he wa mayor of Malvern in Victoria from 1884-1885 but a councilor for many years
apparently the mayoral term is one year . Up here in God's country it is a bit longer than that so you can wear your chains for 3 to 4 years depending on if they call early elections or not.
regards jenn
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Hi Keith,
Did a few lookups at the Qld State Archives today and made a start looking for Barnsley wills.
Great big fat zero I'm afraid. No Barnsley wills at all. I even looked in the lovely big new book with combined northern, central and southern districts 1857 to 1900 - nothing at all.
So far I have looked through:
sthn wills 1962 (for George who d 27 Jan 1962) to 1967
sthn intestacies 1962 - 1967
nthn wills 1875 - 1956.
I was just looking for ANY Barnsleys at all. Not a one!
Let me have a list of any other specific lookups still required. I'm a bit confused about what's been done and what needs doing.
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Hi Ruskie
I'm a bit confused about what's been done and what needs doing.
You are not the only one!! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks for taking the time to do those look-ups - I realise how time consuming it is looking through old records. (although sometimes quite interesting!)
I will have a look to see who there might be that left a Will and "will" get back to you. ;)
Jenn
Stop trying to keep up with my "lot" - just because I have a mayor - you want one!! ;D ;D
Cheers
Keith
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Stop trying to keep up with my "lot" - just because I have a mayor - you want one!! ;D ;D
If we are talking of Mayors - I have one too - Kempsey, NSW - but he was special cause he married his first cousin - so I have a Mayor and a Mayoress!
Just been reading that letter from Garbutt the butchers, the employers of George Barnsley
That was an amazing read - and find - Did you work out if he was discharged from the army / when? - cause I got somewhat confused about it all.
Trish
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Hi Trish,
That was an amazing read - and find - Did you work out if he was discharged from the army / when? - cause I got somewhat confused about it all.
I think really we need some-one with Army knowledge - it looks to be like he somehow managed to "get out" of the army - I presume the Doctors note saying his wife was 6 months pregnant also helped - but surely that wouldn't have been enough!
I am just going through the other brother's record - haven't properly read it all - but I do notice a couple of AWOL on his record - again perhaps most men had a few extra days off - but being to young ::) ::) to have made national service I am not sure!
And I thought being Mayor was an important job - not given to any Trish, Jenn or Keith ;D ;D
I have also been sent some great "stuff" by Carole regarding Annie Barnsley and her school!
So everyday I get another piece for my rather large jigsaw.
Keith
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I think the folks with the AWOL on the war records were simply the unlucky ones who were caught! My father had a few stories about climbing out of the barracks at night to visit the wife (who with many other wives was staying in a nearby hotel!) The father of a school friend used to tell the story (WWII) of taking an extra day of pre embarkation leave - missing the boat which dumped his unit on the wharf at Singapore to be instantly taken prisoner. His 7 days loss of pay for AWOL turned out to be a reward, rather than punishment!
I would also agree that a widowed mother, pregnant wife & two brothers in the service, probably provided a discharge.
Trish
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Hi All,
Now I am back "live" you can see the three pages that contain information on my Australian Relations that you have all found for me.
Any errors or help would be greatly appreciated - well you did find a lot and my one finger typing seems to get worse! ;D
They are all listed on the front page but the last one is here:
http://batemans-history.rootschat.net/desertionfromarmy.htm
Thank you ALL once again! ;)
Keith
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hello there Keith a litle bit more for your tree
Pauline Jordan nee barnsley is buried in Williamstown along with her husband henry who died 21/1/1890
RC E 23004
the death of their three children
Henry Jordan (born !880) died aged 96 FERN 1976 reg no 27618 father Henry mother Mary Barnsley
Frances Neill (born1874) died aged 84 NEWP 1958 refno 11694 father henry jordan mother Pauline Her Barnsley
John Gates Barnsley Jordan (born1877) died aged 75 KENTON refno 11685 father unkown mother unkown
I wonder who looked after these children as they were all very little when their parents died!
regards jenn
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hello
Keith you allready had some info on John Gates Barnsley Jordon
you had asked a bout his first wife
now he ehad a second wife
Amelia Mahalia Faithfull ( dare I say it sounds like a soul singer :D she was born in Carlton Victoria 1910 reg no 6924R it was recorded under Jordon first!
they had the following children
Edwin Jno born 1911 HOTHW reg 12327 father Jno Gates Barns Jordan mother Amelia Mahalah Williams
Frances Emily Grace born 1913 HOTH W reg 4715 father Jno Gates Barns Jordan mother Amelia Mahalah Williams
intersting Amelia must have married twice I would guess will check that out
regards jenn
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Oh!!where is the Mary-Anne for Faithful
Oh! Where is the Jackson for Mahalia
[actually, have I got those extra names right? bit of awhile back now.]
Keith, I'm thinking you are a bit keen on the lime-light sort of ancestor. Mayors...... music stars...no end..?
Sue.
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Henry Jordan (born 1880) died aged 96 FERN 1976 reg no 27618 father Henry mother Mary Barnsley
Jenn
As I haven't got this one down - I "think" he must be mine - a Jordan marrying a Barnsley - but wrong mothers name - but when you are talking about some-one who was 96 that is "old" information!
Any chance of finding his birth - just to be sure?
Frances Neill (born1874) died aged 84 NEWP 1958 refno 11694 father henry jordan mother Pauline Her Barnsley
Interesting that this one puts mum's middle name down - I have it as Herlessa - but only on 1 record up to now - was beginning to think that was wrong - but this confirms it!!
Also didn't have Frances's middle name before - is this a girl or boy?? (with the "e" in it should be a girl)
Where/what is FERN & HORH W??
Any sign of dad - Henry Jordan's birth?
intersting Amelia must have married twice I would guess will check that out
Yes I have been told Amelia Mahalia Williams married Arthur Lloyd Faithful in 1907 (down as Matilda Amelia Williams!) - 1 child Stanley Herbert - b1907. Arthur died 1908
Keith, I'm thinking you are a bit keen on the lime-light sort of ancestor. Mayors...... music stars...no end..?
Sue.
Moi :o :o :o :o ;D ;D
Never ;)
You ask Liverpool Annie - she will tell you I am really a quiet, shy retiring lad!! ::) ::)
I have found on the Victorian marriage records for 1934 a marriage for Frances Emily Jordan - how do I find her husband?
Once many times again - thank you
Keith
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I wonder who looked after these children as they were all very little when their parents died!
Jenn
Perhaps her sister Ann Scott Barnsley - who married Charles Wilcher in Victoria in 1876 - and had 6 children born in Williamstown?? ;)
Just a thought (well it's unusual for me to have one - so thought I might as well write it down! :o :o)
Keith
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Hello Keith
As I haven't got this one down - I "think" he must be mine - a Jordan marrying a Barnsley - but wrong mothers name - but when you are talking about some-one who was 96 that is "old" information!
Any chance of finding his birth - just to be sure?
I hope you have this family all sorted, cause I've seriously forgotten who is who - but here is Henry I and II
Henry JORDAN father Henry Mother Paulina Barnley Place Will Year 1879 12874
Death Henry Jordan father Henry mother Pauline Barnsley age 1m 1879 6686 BirthPlace Williamsto
Hy Jordan father Hy Mother Paulina Barnsley Wms Town 1880 19636
Also didn't have Frances's middle name before - is this a girl or boy?? (with the "e" in it should be a girl)
Frances was born Jordan & died Neill and I don't think men changed their name on marriage (surely not in those days anyway) - so I would vote for female ;)
Where/what is FERN & HORH W??
Gennig knows what all the Victorian abbreviations stand for - I have no idea - I always ask Genni - send her a pm
Any sign of dad - Henry Jordan's birth?
A possibility in Victoria
Henry JORDAN Christening father James mother Ellen W'Town Victoria St James Melbourne C of E 1848 ref 15836
Checking the burial given by Jenn - on the CD
JORDAN Hy died father Wm Mother ... Age 43 Death place WmsTown 1890 ref 5221
which is the right age, but the wrong father ??? ??? - the marriage certificate would probably give an accurate name to his father.
Trish
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Sorry I missed one
I have found on the Victorian marriage records for 1934 a marriage for Frances Emily Jordan - how do I find her husband?
This confused me as I haven't seen any indexes in oz that don't give both partners to a marriage - was this online? Must admit I don't use the online Vic index very much - anyhow I have
Frances Emily Grace JORDAN marries Leslie Geo BERRYMAN 1934 13065
Trish
The folks that made these CDs obviously eventually learned about folks like me - I gave the name as Frances & got Francis Frances and Frank ;D
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Where/what is FERN & HORH W??
Hello all
FERN - more than likely Stands for Ferntree Gully.
HOTH W - This is Hotham West is the area around North Melbourne, Footscray etc. Inner suburb
Cheers
Genni
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Any sign of dad - Henry Jordan's birth?
Hi
Marriage between Henry JORDAN & Pauline BARNSLEY gives his birthplace of Whitehaven. I think that would be in England not OZ.
Genni
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Frances was born Jordan & died Neill and I don't think men changed their name on marriage (surely not in those days anyway) - so I would vote for female
All right - all right ;D ;D- I thought Jenn had just put the first 2 Christian names down - didn't she she was clever enough to find her with a married name!! ;)
I also found a death same year on IGI and it didn't have her married name down - AND it doesn't take much to confuse me you know! :o :o
Frances Emily Grace JORDAN marries Leslie Geo BERRYMAN 1934 13065
Right - but where did the Neill name come from then? - 2nd marriage? -
I am WRONG - we have 2 Frances Jordan - one born 1874 the other 1913!
This confused me as I haven't seen any indexes in oz that don't give both partners to a marriage - was this online? Must admit I don't use the online Vic index very much
Yes that is what I use - to stop trying to ask for every little detail!! ::)
Trouble is I have to ask for a 20 year period - and keep narrowing it down until I get a year with one result - but as I say on marriages that gives me a year that person was married but nothing else!!
Which is why obviously the CD's are much better!! 8) 8)
Thanks Genni for the "enlargement" of initials - we don't seem to use initials in the UK anything like Oz & USA do!!! ;D ;D ;D
Whitehaven is where the original Gates were on the 1851 census - on the coast of Cumberland, North-west England.
Cheers
Keith
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More initials!!
Pauline Jordan nee barnsley is buried in Williamstown along with her husband henry who died 21/1/1890
RC E 23004
Does the "RC" stand for Roman Catholic?
I see some of the Qld (hey notice the initials!!) people were Catholics on the army records - whereas the Victoria ones seem CofE.
Keith
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Oh!! where is the Mary-Anne for Faithful
Sue
The way you lot have got me running around you would think I was "A Puppet on a String" ;D ;D ::)
Keith
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Sorry me again!! ::) ::)
Checking the burial given by Jenn - on the CD
JORDAN Hy died father Wm Mother ... Age 43 Death place WmsTown 1890 ref 5221
which is the right age, but the wrong father Huh Huh - the marriage certificate would probably give an accurate name to his father.
I think this is probably the same person - remembering that his wife died 3 years before and the children were all young - so who gave this death information!!
Keith - for hopefully the last time today!
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Right - but where did the Neill name come from then? - 2nd marriage? -
I am WRONG - we have 2 Frances Jordan - one born 1874 the other 1913!
hhhhhhhmmn
confused here with this quote had you figured it out or not anyway just in case
yes two different women frances jordan born in 1874 parents henry jordan mother pauline barnsley
married William Neill in 1901 refno 2604
had the following
Harold Jno Neill 1907 Newport 12970
Leila Marian born 1903 Newport 12564
Wm Hy born Newport 1902 12557
Frances Emily Grace born 1913 HOTH W reg 4715 father Jno Gates Barns Jordan mother Amelia Mahalah William married the Berryman bloke
sorted now Keith oh and RC is indeed Roman Catholic
regards jenn
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Hi Jenn,
I had figured it out - but even so did not have the actual marriage - which you have now given me!
I read the whole thing - which is often a lot of information! 8) 8) 8)
The trouble is I then read each little bit - and think of my responce - and if I don't write it down straight away I forget!! ::)
But I do (sometimes) get there in the end - as per my addition! ;)
I have just received an email from the Mayor of Williamson's office after he has asked them to search for more information for me - they hope to have it early next week.
So not all politicians are................. :o
Keith
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Yes I have been told Amelia Mahalia Williams married Arthur Lloyd Faithful in 1907 (down as Matilda Amelia Williams!) - 1 child Stanley Herbert - b1907. Arthur died 1908
yes that is true however when doing death checks found two women giving their parents as Arthur Faithfull and Amelia Williams
so checked them out
Doris Amelia Jordan died 1984 ref 26642 at PArk father Arthur Faithfull mother Amelia Mahal
now her birth in 1904 in Hotham East 26386 she is a Williams father unknown so it would seem she used the Jordan name but was led to believe her dad wasarthur who died.
Beryl Valerie MAY died 1964 aged 55 at MOON (possibly mooney ponds?) ref18223
father arthur faithfull and amelia williams
but I have been unable to find a birth for her
regards jenn
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That is good news about the mayor.
Now, there is no possible way I can figure this, but passing it on in any case.
Way back to reply #74
I sent you a cemetry link that shows burial of Sarah BARNSLEY
[Annoyinly the actual lovely headstone picture option is missing today, was there last time]
She died 1941 @93
Some quick bdm nsw searches reveal....
HER Parents -Denis JORDAN and Sarah
Marriage 1 1874 to Thomas Gleeson
Marriage 2 1887 to Thomas BARNSLEY
His parents were either James BARNSLEY and Eliza
or John BARNSLEY and Sophia
[2 deaths for the name Thomas Barnsley so not sure]
Sue
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hello there
Sue or she might have been born and marrried overseas too
from not so tropical Jenn 8)
we have had s********loads of rain 420mils in the last two days but we do need it just wish some of it would now move down south at least the gulf river systems are filling up and that might mean enough water heading towards the mighty murray for all the folks down thataway
teehhee weather update concluded :P
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Beryl Valerie MAY died 1964 aged 55 at MOON (possibly mooney ponds?) ref18223
father arthur faithfull and amelia williams
but I have been unable to find a birth for her
Jenn
Could "just" be correct - Arthur died 1908! ;)
Married for 2nd time John Gates Barnsley Jordan in 1910
Sue
I didn't think they were "mine" in NSW - as "my" Thomas Bansley still had a living wife - but....
Strange Barnsley marrying Jordan tho. ???
I have printed off most of the answers everyone has given and will re-read them all shortly (honest! ;))
It's very mild here - 10C - remembering it's middle of winter for us.
Had a phone call from a Bateman researcher this morning living in Mackay - she said it was raining there.
(Her maiden name was Bateman but her family came from Lincolnshire not Hertfordshire like mine around 1850 - the same time as the Gates who are my mum's side!)
Small world getting smaller.
Now who am I going to support at the cricket tomorrow - I seem to have quite a few relations now down under ;D ;D ;D - think I will support the winners :o
Keith
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oh Yes Jenn, I was thinking of you when i heard of the floods and downpour up in townsville and surrounds.
we would love some of it. There is a new condition the physiotherapists are all seeing now and it is called
BUCKET BACK
and it is caused by carrying buckets of water from shower to garden etc. when you're not used to it.
It's just hot and dry here.
S.
Keith don't think about the cricket. you have more interesting twigs and branches to attend to.
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Hi Keith
Yes that is what I use - to stop trying to ask for every little detail!!
The way you lot have got me running around you would think I was "A Puppet on a String"
For a man who has 5 women instantly answering his every question - it is easy to see who are the puppets ;D ;D
And if you want answers then give all the b.. little details in the question and you'll get all em answers ;D ;D - We knows more than the Victorian Registrar ;D ;D ;D
Hi Jenn
We got 2 spits of rain yesterday - today is looking very hopeful and we will no doubt get bucketfuls - I have just washed the patio etc for a weekend "event" it will rain & the mud will splash everywhere and I will throw a tantrum!!
Hi Sue
No "bucket back" here - the garden has died! This is why the mud hits the patio - no lawn!
Trish
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Hello All
I recieved the following PM from Jason46
"Hi Tropical J
My name is John Carpenter and I am the great grandson of Charles Joseph Wilcher and Ann Scott Barnsley. I new Uncle Frank who was the mayor of Williamstown and also a player for Collingwood Football Club. He is also (in)famous for having a Royall Commission into his actions as Mayor and for having in his posession the gun which shot Warden Price in Williamstown's earlier convict history. He went broke during the depression and was a person much loved by many, because he gave socks and underwear from his woolen mills to the poor, and didn't close his doors until there was nothing left.
I don't know how much you know, so i will give you all, I've got, and i will ask you to pass it on to others on the same line (Trish257, Sparrett, Keith Bateman ChristineR, etc)
Parents Lewis Wilcher (jr) b Bermondsey 1811, m Marion Wilson 27/8/1832 in Surrey d 8/9/1867 London. Marion died 2/8/1849, Bermondsey Surrey.
His parents were Lewis Wilcher (Senior) b 1787 Birmingham, m 28/2/1810 London to Sarah Barritt, d 19/6/1871 Surrey England. Sarah died 2/4/1855 (69 y o) in Croydon, London. (I believe Lewis Jr and Sarah and others are all buried together)That is all i have on the Wilchers. I do not know when Charles joseph Wilcher came to Australia but I believe he came via South africa to Western Australia. A nephew, Lewis was a Rhodes scholar and an Oxford Don and opened the Khartoum University. I met him in Oxford many years ago and his wife Vere is still alive.
Ann Scott Barnsley was b German Gully 19/5/1853 and died 1/11/1935 in Williamstown. My mother has a photo of her. Her parents were George barnsley and Anne Gates, and they arrived in Victoria as unassisted migrants on the Tippo Sahib in September, 1852. Birth dates unknown but from Cumberland England, and they were married at Walton on the Hill, West Derby, Liverpool. He died at Campbells creek, Victoria on 22/6/1858. She was murdered 10/5/1863 at German Gully, and it is well documented in the press at the time. If you want to know more, I can tell you, but you might enjoy chasing the info.
His parents were thomas Barnsley and Annie, and i have no further information. Her parents were John Gates and Anne Scott, both from Cumbria, and they were married 30/4/1818 at Crossthwaite. i have no further information, but would like more.
About myself. I am 60 years of age and did most of my research into the family 20+ years ago, and then got side tracked for a long-time. I have a ton of info, including an original of Uncle Frank's royal commision findings (he was exhonorated) and the inquest results into Anne Barnsley's death, but they are in my Gold coast home. I was born in Williamstown, but am currently teaching English at Prince Mohammed University in the Kingdom of Saudi arabia, and am becoming active in genealogy again.
Lets share and see what we know. Any information or scanned evidence would be welcome. Also, call me Jason
Hope to hear from you soon
Jason"
I have advised him that the Barnsley Line belongs to our dear mate from the UK Mr Keith Bateman and that I would add it in to the thread for all that those helped Keith with the Barnsley saga would be updated also.
regards Jenn
ps Trisha did you get any of the rain in your part of Brissie?
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Hi Jason & tropisclj,
Many thanks for all that information - will now try to put it all together!!
May be a bit of time as I am still "slow" with my illness.....
But I will get there in the end!!!!!
Please keep all this information nowing - as I do not have much about my Australian Family.
Cheers
Keith
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Hello there Keith
Very sorry to hear thatyou are unwell, please get better soon.
As yet I haven't heard back from Jason but hopefully will soon.
regards Jenn
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Hi Keith
So nice to see you online. Always seems to be the ones far distant from where you live where a 3rd/4th/5th cousin pops up with all the news. I recently met a 3rd cousin from Canada :)
Hi Jenn
Still raining here - but not very heavily :( :(
Trish
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Hi Trish, Jenn and All,
Thanks for the good wishes - slowly getting better.
So please look out for any information about my far off family!!
I am storing all the information for my next update on my Website (did you know I have a Website!!) ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Keith
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(did you know I have a Website!!) ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Keith
Somewhere I'm sure I heard that ;D ;D ;D
Trish
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Hi All,
Me AGAIN!!!!!
Just to say that after another "little DO" I am now trying to get back on line!!
Want to say that all the help you have all given me has kept me going!!!!
I am now trying to get back to my website - to see what I might now need - so WATCH OUT!!!!!
Sorry for spelling errors - that's part of my problem.
I am about the same as my website - both "poorly"
Happy New Year to you all :-* :-*
Cheers Keith
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Hi Keith
As always, nice to see you and the "cat" - Look forward to seeing the online updates & wishing you a Happy 2008 and a return to "good" from "poorly" :)
Trish
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Hi CC - nice to see you back on line again - oh, and you too Keith ;D
Ancestors and rellies aren't going anywhere - they'll be all waiting when you are good and ready
Take care
Di
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Hello there Keith
Happy happy new year to you from North Queensland
hope the new year is kind to you
warm regards Jenn
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Keith
Lovely to see you back! Take care and I hope both you and your website are in blooming good health very soon!
MarieC
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Hy Jordan father Hy Mother Paulina Barnsley Wms Town 1880 19636
Hi Everyone, I know I'm extremely late in seeing this but Henry Jordan born in 1880 was my G Grandfather. I remember him well, as he used to visit with my Grandmother most nights for dinner. Pretty sure he was in his 90's then & he always drove himself there....he lived about 5 minutes around the road from her. He passed away at 96.
I have a lot of the family history of most of the people who have been mentioned.
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Hi Keith
This is Jason Carpenter and I am back from working overseas and am actively doing my genealogy again. I have just started on my Barnsley side and have a death cert and a marriage cert for Pauline and both state 'born at sea off St Paul Island'. I wonder if that is where her name came from??? And what is the meaning of her 2nd name? Please contact me if you are still researching our family. Same with you Woolamaichick.
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Hi Tropicalj
This is John Carpenter and I have been in contact before but am now returning to genealogy after retiring from working overseas. You noted once that Charles Joseph Wilcher was buried in Altona Cemetery with one son Frank and Frank's wife Minnie and also Charles brother Lewis John. Can you give me the reference to find this grave site, and also do you know when Lewis John came to Australia. His Wife and child are buried in the Bermondsey plot with his father. Hi to Keith to - it's good to be back in the mix.
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Altona cemetery is online:
http://mapping.fcmp.com.au:1001/Pubmapping/index.aspx
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/70737824?searchTerm=wilcher charles&searchLimits=
obituary for Charles Joseph Wilcher
also another one with more details
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11101798?searchTerm=wilcher charles&searchLimits=l-decade=193|||l-year=1937
Jenn
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Thanks for the info. I couldn't get into the mapping but I did view the two articles on my great grandfather and one said that the funeral cemetery was being held at Williamstown Cemetery, where I think he is buried, but the article I was referring to said that he and four other relatives were buried at the Altona Cemetery. Do you know the reference for the Altona Cemetery, please?
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Select Altona Cemetery in the link posted by Jen.
Cando
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Hi Cando
I accessed the link and it doesn't give me that information. I can't find my Wilchers buried in Altona Cemetery
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Your WILCHER's are buried at WILLIAMSTOWN Cemetery ::)
You can access it from the same link to GMCT index & mapping I gave you above in reply #233.
Why do you think they are at Altona? Earlier in the thread it's noted that they are at Williamstown Cemetery.
In your reply #235 you were asking for four other relatives that were buried at the Altona Cemetery ???
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Hi Merlin I beleived that my relatives, Charles Joseph Wilcher, his brother Lewis John and his son Francis Walter Scott Wilcher and Frank's wife Minnie were buried in Williamstown but Tropicalj stated
" a search of cemeteries found Charles buried in Altona.....".
I was trying to find if this was accurate and now you confirm that it is not which is good. I still haven't found when Lewis John Wilcher arrived in Australia.
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Hi Jason,
I am very sorry to say that Keith's emails are no longer working But we have found a postal address so will send Keith a letter to let him know of new replies to his post.
Regards
Sarah
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Thank you Sarah - much appreciated. I hope my re-entry to this site hasn't caused offense. I am only trying to check conflicting information
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I was googling my grandparents and came across this thread so joined the forum - sorry don't really know how it works. Just wanted to say that Lewis Charles Wilcher (Rhodes Scholar from Melbourne) was my grandfather.
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Hi Cous
I met Lewis and Vere in Oxford in the 1970's - probably before you were born - and had a weekend with them. Lewis took me around Oxford and gave me a lot of good advice about Sudan, which I later used when I was there. My Mum is Jean Carpenter (nee Flett) and her Mum is Marion Flett (nee Wilcher) and she is a sister to your great grandfather Lewis who died before his son Lewis (your grandfather) was 2 years old. I have more information and photos but am overseas at present and won't be home for another week. Send me a personal message with your email and we will keep in touch. My Mum was very close to Vere and visited her in Oxford in the 1990's. Mum is now 98 and not in good health. hope to hear from you soon.
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Hi Natalie
I'm your Australian Cousin. I once visited Lewis and Vere in Oxford but didn't meet their kids. one of whom would have been your parent. My name is John Carpenter, my mother was a Flett and her mother was Marian Wilcher, born 14/7/1877 and her brother, Lewis George was your grandfather's father. Small world! Send me a personal message and we can swap email addresses.
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My nanna was Irene Theresa Kirby (nee Barnsley). I'm just wondering what her exact date of death was (even though I was there) as I was only 14yo and also where she was born. I'm also curious about that side of the family so if you have any info ... djgray40@yahoo.com.au
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My nanna was Irene Theresa Kirby (nee Barnsley). I'm just wondering what her exact date of death was (even though I was there) as I was only 14yo and also where she was born.
Your grandparents:
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Irene-Theresa-Kirby/15094372#/