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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Papamoa on Saturday 20 January 07 22:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone, I have just joined this forum and would like to ask if any of you are researching the Graham family of Cumberland? Particularly from Arthuret, Kirklinton, Carlisle & Dalston. I am happy to share my research with anyone.
Regards, from New Zealand
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Hi Papamoa, I have a Graham from Arthuret kind of area but quite far back, Margaret Grame born 1692, married William Ferguson, would be very grateful for any help you are able to give me though. By the way, welcome to Rootschat.
Thanks
Anna
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Hello Papamoa,
Welcome to Rootschat from me too.
I am researching a Graham family from Kirklinton --in my direct line, a Jane Graham, born in Kirklinton in 1804, married William Angus born Blackwell, Carlisle in 1809
They married at St Cuthbert's church Carlisle on 9th July 1831.
Jane's parents were John Graham and Ann Scott who married at Kirklinton in 1796.
Their other children and their DOBs were
Dinah 1800
Richard 1802
Ann 1806
William 1810
I hope this sounds familiar, as there are so many Grahams and I am lost among them!
Regards
Jane
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Hi Anna & Jane,
Neither of your families appear to have connections to mine, but I shall have a look through my research notes and see if I can find anything that may help either of you. I agree, the number of Graham's in the area make it difficult to research but still a lot of fun.
I shall be back to you both soon.
Regards, Bruce
New Zealand
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Hi Bruce, Thanks very much for that, look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks again
Anna
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Hi Jane & Anna,
Jane
I have had a quick look at some of my data and found the following three christenings which may or may not be additional to your family of John and Ann.
EDWARD, christened 21st June, 1813 at Sunnyside, Kirklinton
SARAH, christened 25th January, 1816 at Sunnyside, Kirklinton
ROBERT, christened 6th June, 1819 at Uppertown, Kirklinton.
I have a fairly extensive extraction of Graham's from the Bishops Transcripts for Arthuret and Kirklinton and these are the only names I have found that may fit with your family,
Anna,
I haven't found anything on your query, can you provide me with more information from more recent events?
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi Bruce
I have a William Graham, b1801 in Carlisle. He was married more than once. The last 'wife' I have for him is Mary (who was also married before - so I don't have her maiden name) Tomlinson. They had a son, John Graham b1836 at Whitehaven, Cumberland. Mary had two daughters, Ann and Margaret to her previous husband.
I don't know if William had any other children before he married Mary. He was a coal miner, living on Quay Street, Whitehaven. He was also an inn-keeper, living at the Union Inn. John was born at Preston Quarter, Whitehaven.
John married Ann Morgan in 1858 at Whitehaven. They had John b1861, George b1865, James b1866, Elizabeth b1869 by 1871. I'm still researching the rest of the years and family. There are so many Grahams at that time though, it's quite complicated.
Does any of this ring any bells?
Rosemary
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Hi Rosemary,
I can't find anything in my records for your William born c.1801 in Carlisle and I haven't done any research in the Whitehaven area. Unfortunately I can't help you but will keep your info on record in case I find anything later that may assist you.
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi Bruce, unfortunately I don't have any more recent Graham's than this (in England anyway, some in Gretna in the 1700's on a different line) but can send you a copy of my link to these Graham's from my familyhistory computer program if you like if you let me have your email address in a personal message please ( a bit less public than the forums).
Thanks
Anna
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Hi Papamoa, Just logged on and saw your request re Graham of Arthuret. I live 3 miles from Arthuret and we have Netherby Hall one mile away where the Grahams lived for a lot of years. They dont live in the hall now as they had to sell it but still live just outside the grounds. Sir James Graham is about 58 now. There is a local hotel called the Graham Arms which the family once owned - proper hunting shooting and fishing brigade.If this helps and I can be of any further assistance let me know.
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Hi Jessy, please do you know if the first name Gabriel or variations is a name in this Graham line, think this might be the name of my Margaret's father and she was baptised 1692 in Arthuret.
Thanks
Anna
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Hi Anna, Cant answer that one straight away but I shall make some enquiries for you. The Grahams did have their own church built at Netherby called Kirk Andrews on Esk (St Andrews) and I know the wife had a beautiful arch and alter brought over from Italy for the church. Does that mean anything to you. I shall speak to some neighbours whose family have lived here for a couple of generations and see if they can help. Jess
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Hi Jessy,
Thank you for your reply. The Graham's that lived in Netherby Hall were a line known as the Esk Graham's ie their family lived at various locations mainly along the Esk River.
There is strong support for the idea that there were two distinct lines of Graham's in the area. The Netherby or Esk Grahams and another line (mine) that lived along the Lyne River.
A connection between my family and Sir James Graham of Netherby is "Randalinton Farm" on the banks of the Lyne near Sandysikes and now owned by a Mr Armstrong. This farm was once owned by Sir James Graham and my family were (I believe) tenant farmers there.
I am currently having research done at Carlisle Castle to see if there is any actual family connection between my ancestors and those of the Netherby Graham's, the then owners of Randalinton.
If you are able to ask Sir James Graham if he has any knowledge of the ownership of Randalinton, perhaps old titles etc. My family lived at "Little Randalinton", I would like to know if "Little Randalinton" is the cottage on the left at the start of the drive up to the main farm house, or is it further down the road towards Sandysike? Also if he knows of any connection of my family with his. Any further historical information about either his family or mine would be appreciated.
I shall be in your area in August this year and would love to visit you and view Netherby Hall if that is possible.
So many questions that I need answers to.
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi Jess, Thanks very much for that, your time and trouble is greatly appreciated. Think I might have seen the name Netherby on the Longtown site but part from that nothing.
Thanks again
Anna
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Bruce and Anna, Have a look at Grahams of Longtown and Netherby on the web. You may have seen it already Bruce but it is very interesting. They have lived in Netherby for 400 years. Sorry Bruce I dont live in Netherby Hall it is 1 mile away and owned by a Mr Robb. I also live in a gamekeepers cottage which belonged to Netherby. I have some old documents which I will look at for you to see if it mentions the property in Sandysike. You will have to bare with me I will have to hunt them down.
Jess
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Hi Jessy,
Sorry! I misunderstood your earlier message and thought you actually lived at Netherby Hall. I would appreciate anything you can find out about "Randalinton Farm".
I have been in your area 2004 & 2005 and as I said earlier will be up there again in August. I visited the Armstrongs at Randalinton in 2005 but they couldn't help me with any history of the farm, but it is very old.
Perhaps you can do me one small favour, I visited the Storey's at "Newbiggin Farm" in 2005 and they gave me their e-mail address which, unfortunately, I must have written down incorrectly as it doesn't work. Could you contact them and get it for me please as I would love to get in touch with them. My Graham and Sewell ancestors lived at "Newbiggin Farm". My ancestors also lived on another farm, "Moathill" which no longer exists but is on the road up to "Gilestown". Anything you come across regarding Graham history would be appreciated, it has been a labour of love for me for almost 40 years.
It is great to be talking to someone who lives in the area.
Best regards from a beautiful sunny morning here in New Zealand, expected temp today is 27deg C. :)
Bruce
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Hi Anna,
Have just found this entry on FamilySearch which looks as though it may be yours.
> JOHANES FARGUSON Male
Event(s):
> Birth:
> Christening: 14 MAR 1720 Arthuret, Cumberland, England
> Death:
> Burial:
> Parents:
> Father: GULIELMI FARGUSON Family
> Mother: MARGARETAE
Batch Number C042991
GULIEMI is an old spelling for WILLIAM
Best regards, Bruce
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Apologies to all in this fascinating thread. I have been offline for a couple of days.
Papamoa, thanks for the additional Graham Baptisms you gave me. I see from my notes I do have Edward, at Sunnyside, in 1813, but I must have missed the other two. It was boiling hot when I visited Carlisle last summer and my brains had been fried by a night in a stifling hotel room.
You say your ancestors lived at Newbiggin farm... Interestingly, my John Graham is always referred to as ''of Newbiggen'' (sic) in the parish records of Kirklinton. However I am not aware of the timeframe of your Newbiggin Grahams
How I wish I lived in the area too, so I could poke around some more! Hopefully I will make it there again in the summer too! Great folk at Carlisle Records Office...
Regards
Jane
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Hi Jane,
I have only just discovered this RootsChat and am enjoying it. Can you give me more details of your John Graham of Newbiggin. Newbiggin is the name of a farm and I have photos I took of it in 2005, am happy to send you copies. My connection with Newbiggin is through my John Graham who married Jane Sewell 9th Feb, 1820. At the time of the baptism of their daughter, Elizabeth 19th June, 1822, Jane was shown in the baptism record as living with her father at Newbiggin. I have no idea what she was doing there but possibly her father may have been ill. I don't have any death date for her father. John & Jane's home was at Randalinton Farm a short distance away.
Regards, Bruce
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Hi to all who are reading this thread.
I have reasonably comprehensive extractions of The Bishop's Transcripts for Arthuret, Kirklinton & St Cuthbert's Carlisle. All Graham names I'm sorry. If your ancestor is not a Graham or married to a Graham I wont have it in my data.
Regards, Bruce
New Zealand
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Hi again, Bruce,
I do have somewhere a photocopy of the marriage record of my John Graham, maybe there are more details there. Please bear with me as I have not worked on this line since the (Northern hemisphere) summer, and have been away from home for a month...the word chaos springs to mind.
I was wondering if my Grahams might have moved out of the Newbiggin farm by 1813 as the birth record of Edward Graham shows the couple now to be ''of Sunnyside''
However, a further thought, and I hope some people who know the area can help here.. there may be more than one Newbiggin in the area
I will get back to you on the marriage record asap
Regards
Jane
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Later:
Here is the transcript of the record
John Graham of Newbiggen in this Parish Batchelor and Ann Scott of Saughtrees in the Parish of Bewcastle, singlewoman were married in this church by Licence this fifth day of July 1796
By me ? Pattinson, Rector (I could not read the initial)
This marriage was solemnised between us, John Graham, Ann Scott
in the presence of us, William Graham, William Scott, Richard Scott, Mary Dodgson, M Pattison, Andrew Graham, Mary Routledge, Robert Noble.
They looked the licence up for me and it contained no further information. Maybe the witness's names will be familiar.
Re John Graham's baptism, I see I have noted a possible for him, taken from a transcription of the BTs they had at the records office. I noted the date but not the year, except that is was between 1780 and 1812....oh dear!
It reads
John son of Andrew Graham, Husbandman and Jane his wife of Newbiggin
September 27th ????
I have since discovered from the IGI that this John Graham died a year later.
There is an Andrew Graham among the witnesses at the wedding...
There is also a John, illegit. son of Elizabeth Graham of Newbiggin, baptised Jan 1st 1774
These are the only two John Grahams of Newbiggin I found, though given the conditions of my visit as I said before there may be more in your notes
I hope this helps and you continue to enjoy Rootschat
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Hi Jane,
This is all getting very complicated. I have an entry dated December 1st, 1793, Baptism of John, bastard son of Andrew Graham, parish of Aspatria shoemaker, and Jane Porteas of Dikenwood, spinster. Unfortunately the witness names you provided don't help me. Obviously there were Graham's at Newbiggin for several generations, also Sewells. It is a very large property and I wonder if two families lived there at the same time, ie the Graham's and Sewells.
Until later, Bruce
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Hi again Jane,
Attached is a photograph of Newbiggin, Kirklinton.
Regards, Bruce
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Hi Bruce, I have looked in local telephone directory and cannot find the storeys of Newbiggin Farm, Kirklinton :'( I wonder if they have moved?? I shall investigate. Have you seen the web site for memorials in Longtown and look under Grahams. Ill get back to you when I do some searches.
Jess by the way as well as Newbiggin Farm there is a Newbiggin.
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Hi Jess,
Thanks for your reply. When you say there is another "Newbiggin" is it in Kirklinton? I am aware that there are other "Newbiggin"'s in other parts of Cumberland.
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi Bruce, Is Newbiggin Farm actually at Kirklinton. According to my ordanance survey map there is a Newbiggin to the west of Kirklinton. Approx 3 miles away??? Across the other side of the A6071 Brampton to Longtown Road.
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Hi Jessy,
If you take the road westward from Kirklinton Church past Fergushill and across the A6071, "Newbiggin Farm" is about 1/2 a mile off the A6071. From memory, where the road crosses the A6071 is "Smithfield".
Randalinton Farm is on the road between the A6071 and Sandysike.
My ancestral family had connections all over this area.
Hope this helps.
Regards Bruce
sweltering in the heat here.
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Thanks again, Bruce and Jess, for the contributions. Bruce, that photo is wonderful.
I only have shots of St Cuthbert's in Carlisle if you are interested, though I expect this is of minor importance to you.
I await further input on the geography of the area with extreme interest. For instance, has anyone heard of ''Sunnyside''?
Thank you too, Bruce, for the 1793 John Graham baptism record, but I think this is too late to be connected to my particular JG as he was of an age to be married in 1796 and produce a child by 1800, if not earlier, so he could not have been a child .
Maybe the only answer is to go and camp out at Carlisle Castle for a month and ransack the archives. My primary interest at the time of my visit was the Angus family, who are as rare in the district as the Grahams are numerous, and I didn't pay due attention
Kicking myself in sunny but not too warm Istanbul
Jane
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Hi Jane, Yes I have spoken to a long term resident of this area and "Sunnyside" is a smallholding now. That is the name of the property not the area. My ordanance survey map doesnt cover the area but it is near to a place called Roadhead and Heathersgill.
Bruce, This same resident friend of mine is calling today and I may get an email address for Lady Selena Graham wife of sir James who may be able to help you. Im trying to find a local historian for you all so bare with me.
Jess
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Have you seen the Longtown News 1844 - 1847 on the web????? Might be something of interest on there??? Jess
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Hi Jess, look forward to hearing from you regarding Graham's of Arthuret.
Thanks again
Anna
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Hi Jessy & Jane,
JANE
I have photographs of St Cuthbert's, thank you. I took lots of photos around Cumberland when I was there in 2004/2005.
JESSY
I look forward to the opportunity to speak to Lady Graham as I am sure that her husband will be able to help me with details of my family particularly in relation to "Randalinton Farm".
If I can help either of you in any way, please let me know. If you would like copies of my BT's of Arthuret, Kirklinton & St Cuthbert's please let me know. They are fairly extensive, with some missing entries and possibly a few errors but they may help.
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi Bruce - long shot - but here goes!!
Wouldn't have anything in your Graham files of a Janet (Jannet) Graham who married a John (Kennedy) Kennity 25-Aug-1715 in Arthuret by any chance??
Must admit that's all I got at present....
HiFly
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Hi HiFly,
The entry I have reads ..... August 25th, 1715, John Kennety (sic) and Jannet Graham of Easton.
Hope this helps,
Regards, Bruce
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Again, thanks to all. A valuable thread indeed.
Bruce, I thought you might have a better photo collection than me! ;D ;D ;D I was limited by time and transport.
Jessy, thanks for the info on Sunnyside -- I will check out the newspaper reference you give.
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Hi Bruce, I learnt yesterday that the Grahams owned all the land from Solway Firth down to Harker area. Sir James Grahams grandfather Charles was the last one to live in the hall. Early 1900s was when the land was divided up. As you know they did own Sunnyside Kirklinton Sandysike etc. Lady Grahams email is email address removed by moderator - please use the secure Rootschat personal message system to exchange personal email addresses - thankyou which is advertised in the parish magazine for a holiday cottage let. I really dont know what response you will get. Let me know how you get on. Jessy
ps. have you been to Arthuret church and seen all the Graham plaques???
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For the sake of all - when putting someone's e-mail address on to a public forum - can I respectfully suggest that forumites use the convention of :
name (at) isp_provider (dot) co (dot) uk (*)
as an example so that spam bots don't pick them up and use them.
Suggest Moderator edits previous post to reflect this - I'm sure Lady Selena Graham would NOT appreciate loads of spam!!
HiFly
(*) Moderator Comment: Sorry, HyFly, you meant well, but RootsChat policy is not to show any private e-mail addresses in postings.
To Everybody, Please use the PM system for exchanging personal data.
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Sorry Hifly, I stand repremanded!!! Im too old to understand all this spam etc but appreciate what you say. Jess
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Bruce, are you aware of the Rootsweb mailing list for Cumberland/Carlisle? You will find their archives on line.
There is someone in Australia who is asking for information on a Sewell family . I don't know if this has any connection to your Sewells
Regards
Jane
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Hi Jessy, am hoping to get Arthuret way in May sometime so maybe will be able to get into the church then. Do you think Lady Selina might be able to help me with my Gabriel Graham at all please?
Thanks
Anna
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Good morning everyone.
Jessy,
Thank you for the e-mail address. I shall contact her and see if she or her husband can assist me. I agree with HiFly re posting of Lady Serena's e-mail and have asked the moderator to remove it (if he can). Your intentions were well meant and I appreciate your help. Perhaps you can advise me of any B&B's in Longtown area for a night or two in August.
Jane,
I do have a lot of photos around Longtown, Kirklinton & Carlisle. Will be adding a lot more in August when I get up there. Is there anything you need a pic of, I might have it. I am on Cumberland, Graham & Borders lists (among others). I saw post for Sewell but couldn't help them.
Anna,
I have searched through my records and can't find any Gabriele's. I am almost certain that the name is not one of the Esk Graham's.
Time for a morning cuppa.
Regards to everyone, Bruce
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Hi Bruce, Thanks very much for taking the time and trouble to check for me anyway.
Anna
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Just found this thread and thought I'd post my GRAHAMs of Longtown/Arthuret.
Jane GRAHAM chr 1819 Longtown, "Jane dtr of Stephen labourer of Longtown and Jane (late BATTY) GRAHAM
Doubt they're connected to the Netherby Hall GRAHAMs.
1841 Jane was a servant at Riddings, Moat, Kirkandrews upon Esk
1851 servant at Penton (the next hsehold on the census was Haithwaite Gate where Jane's future hubby was. )
Jane GRAHAM married James TURNBULL 1852 Nichol Forest, and the family, minus the youngest son, who I think had died by then, emigrated to NZ sometime around 1862/4 depending on which evidence you believe. Settled in Taranaki.
In 1994/5 I was there and saw the ruins of the cottage at the bottom of Glendenning Rigg's drive which shows up on the 1861 OS maps, already a ruin.
When I last looked I couldn't find Stephen GRAHAM's birth/baptism.
Census info has him born Bewcastle c 1774 but when I was in the Carlisle Record Office I couldn't find him Bewcastle, Nichol Forest, Arthuret.
James TURNBULL's elder brother was the Rev Robert TURNBULL, father of Sir Robert TURNBULL, Superintendent of the LIne of the London and North West Railway, later Director.
A younger brother John seems to have moved to London then back again.
As for the GRAHAMs I don't know that much at all really.
Stephen GRAHAM married Jane BATY by license in Aug 1805.
Jul 1805 Andrew, their bastard son was baptised Stephen being "of Fauld" and Jane of Hornick Hill" neighbouring farms just out of Longtown.
He may or may not have married a Jane someone, probably prior to civil reg.
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Hi LornaHen, noticed on the IGI there were Stephen Graham's of Arthuret 1740's and back, maybe could be something to do with yours somewhere along the line?
Anna
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Hi Anna, Sorry cant find the name your looking for in the Grahams - still looking. They seem to be all Charles, James and Mallas??
Hu Bruce, B and Bs in Longtown. High street have a "Home from Home" and up past Netherby Hall about 5 miles there is Craigburn Farmhouse and also Bessiestown. All three look nice. Great food at Craigburn. All on website. Of course the Grahams do have a cottage they let out as well ask when yu email her. Let me know how you get on. Jess
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Hi Jessy, Thanks very much for taking the time and trouble to look for me, look forward to hearing from you if you are able to find anything for me.
Anna
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Anna, Re Margaret Graham do you have names of siblings??? I have found a Margaret Robert Elizabeth Eleanor and Thomas born to William and Jane Graham about this time. Am I looking in the right family????
William and Jane were married at Arthuret . Still nothing on a Gabriel. Jess
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Hi Jessy, Thanks for that, unfortunately I don't have any other siblings of Margaret at the moment.
Thanks again
Anna
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Good morning everyone,
I haven't been here for a few days so I will have to have a read back over recent postings to see if I should be answering someone.
Anna,
I found this posting on a website that may interest you.
GRAHAM, Gabriel Butcher, died 14.03.1769 [Monumental Inscription St Cuthbert’s Yard]
The website (which you may all find interesting) is
www.carlislehistory.co.uk
Go to page "A-Z of Carlisle's history and then scroll down to Graham entries.
Have a great day.
Bruce
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Hi Jessy,
Thanks for the B&B's, I shall have a look at them on the web. Home from Home in Longtown is probably the most suitable.
How's the research going? I have sent off an E-mail to Serena but as yet no reply. I shall let you know when I receive one.
Best regards, Bruce, from a very hot sunny day.
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Hi Lornahen,
I have been looking at various census records and was unable to find your James Turnbull/Jane Graham on 1861 lists which suggests they may have emigrated to NZ before 1861. I have been on IGI and found the marriage date/place .. 22nd June, 1852 at Nicol Forest. -- Batch Number M035601
Christenings of children, all at Nicol Forest are Batch Number C035601
Robert .. 24th April, 1853
Ellen .. 20th August, 1854
Stephen .. 16th March, 1856
James .. 24th December, 1858
You may already have this information but better to have it twice than not at all.
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi again LornaHen,
I am sure you will find the following very interesting.
Dear Bruce - you wrote
> I have just had an enquiry from a researcher in the UK. They are
> looking for a James Turnbull and his wife Jane (nee Graham) who
> apparently arrived in New Zealand from UK about 1862-4 and settled in
> Taranaki. They were married in Nicol Forest, Cumberland, England, in
> 1852 and came out with some of their children (don't know how many).
There is a transmission document in the LINZ records New Plymouth dated 19 Mar 1891 R22/22 for James TURNBULL of Huirangi, farmer. As this is in a deeds index it is unable to be photocopied - probably now held at LINZ Wellington processing centre
Similarly for Jane - same address details - declaration as widow of Huirangi R43/229 - so this looks like your couple?
1881 electoral roll shows
Electorate Taranaki
Number 767
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names James
Nature Of Qualification Freehold
Place Of Residence Huirangi
Occupation Farmer
For Property Qualification Huirangi,63.
1893 roll shows
Surname TURNBULL
Given Name James
Number 2384
Electorate New Plymouth
Voting Qualification Freehold
Residential Address Huirangi
Occupation Farmer
Property Detail Sec. 63, Huirangi
Surname TURNBULL
Given Name Robert
Number 2386
Electorate New Plymouth
Voting Qualification Residential
Residential Address Huirangi
Occupation Farmer
Surname TURNBULL
Given Name Stephen
Number 2387
Electorate New Plymouth
Voting Qualification Residential
Residential Address Huirangi
Occupation Farmer
Surname TURNBULL
Given Name William
Number 2388
Electorate New Plymouth
Voting Qualification Freehold
Residential Address Manutahi
Occupation Farmer
Property Detail Sec. 90, Huirangi
Surname TURNBULL
Given Name William
Number 2389
Electorate New Plymouth
Voting Qualification Residential
Residential Address Junction Rd
Occupation Farmer
You might want to check ARCHWAY for probate records - the transmission document for 1891 appeared to be a will but could be some sort of transfer within the family?
Also WW1 nominal records could be useful - I see that there are a few for the New Plymouth area.
Hope this gives you something to go on with
*** Please direct all lookup requests, questions, etc to the list -
click on "Reply All" to reply on-list to a post or click on "Reply" to
send a private response only. Private emails asking for help will NOT
receive assistance, if any response at all. The sending of thanks for
help given can be sent to the list or privately as preferred, and will
be appreciated either way. ***
Stephen Donald in sunny Tolaga Bay
Researching Tolaga Bay and East Coast history and families
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~nztolagabay/
I hope this helps you.
Best regards, Bruce
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Hi again LenaHen.
More information pasted below. I would suggest that you contact Stehen Donald directly and thank him for what he has supplied.
Best regards, Bruce
Dear Bruce
Forgot to say that Jane's LINZ entry was for 1907 - so that makes sense of the other entry for James. Following entry in Burial Locator might confirm something for you?
Source New Plymouth District Council
Record Type B/R
Year of Death 1907
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Jane
Age 87
Location Cemetery in New Plymouth District
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 35
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1907
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Jane
Age 88
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 35
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1891
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names James
Age 70
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
Source New Plymouth District Council
Record Type B/R
Year of Death 1891
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names James
Age 70
Location Cemetery in New Plymouth District
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 113
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1952
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Andrew
Age 68
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 84
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1953
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Charlotte Clara
Age 89
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 113
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1917
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Helen
Age 56
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 113
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1922
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Robert
Age 70
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Record Number 84
Record Type M/I
Year of Death 1929
Surname TURNBULL
Given Names Stephen
Age 73
Location Huirangi Cemetery Taranaki J02.11
So it looks to me that you might have yourself a family too
*** Please direct all lookup requests, questions, etc to the list -
click on "Reply All" to reply on-list to a post or click on "Reply" to
send a private response only. Private emails asking for help will NOT
receive assistance, if any response at all. The sending of thanks for
help given can be sent to the list or privately as preferred, and will
be appreciated either way. ***
Stephen Donald in sunny Tolaga Bay
Researching Tolaga Bay and East Coast history and families
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~nztolagabay/
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Hi Lorna,
Just to let you know that I spent almost 1/2 this afternoon locating information on your NZ Turbull's only to discover that you probably know all of what came to me via Stephen Donald. Your posting on RootsChat lead me to believe that all you knew was that James Turnbull along with his wife and family arrived in NZ and settled in Taranaki in 1862-4. It would have been more helpful if you had posted what you know of your NZ Turnbulls and not had me waste so much of my time.
I am a little upset as I am prepared to help most people with their genealogy (I have been researching for 40+ years) but this effort on your behalf was, it seems, a complete waste of my time.
Regards, Bruce
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Bruce,
I'm sorry that you wasted your time on my TURNBULLs.
However as the thread was GRAHAMs, and as my Rootschat profile has a link to my web pages, which includes a lot of the TURNBULL info, all of which should be readily available via any web search, and is on Rootsweb World Connect and GenCircles and Genes Reunited, I didn't expect anyone to go racing off on the TURNBULLs.
Stephen GRAHAM's descendants and forebears however - some of those that I believe will turn out to be connected are in my Rootsweb WorldConnect database LornaPotential.
I would expect people to have already checked basic bits like the IGI and known sources of info
For the record, the NZ burials located are mostly all family members apart from the William TURNBULL of Manutahi. I've not managed to connect him into the family at all.
Regards
Lorna
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Hi Bruce, Thanks so much for that,that could be right. Whereabouts is that churchyard by the way please?
Thanks again
Anna
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Hi Bruce,
have you had a look at this site
http://mysite.freeserve.com/longtown19/index.html
a lady called bridget has researched around the longtown area for a few years,you might find something on there,
janjan
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Good morming all.
Anna,
St Cuthbert's is in Carlisle.
JanJan,
Thank you for the website, I shall go and have a look at it.
Regards, Bruce
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Hi Bruce, Thanks very much for that.
Anna
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Hi Bruce,
no problem i have had so much help and ideas from others on this site im glad to help.i have researched around the longtown area for my family also the littles of haithwaite gate, and telfords of bewcastle,its such a nice area if you can get there to visit,i live at carlisle so often visit the area,
janjan
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Hi janjan, I think we were in contact in 2005 on here as we have Ewart's in common in Bewcastle. Please have you been able to make any progress on them or any lines relating to them since then.
Thanks
Anna
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I wonder if I can prevail on one of you that has access to the Kirklinton Grahams' baptism records to check out a reference for me and see if they have a place name for the parents, as I was unable to read the entry. It is for
June 8th, 1810, for
WILLIAM GRAHAM, son of John Graham of something, and Ann his
wife (Late Scott)
Thanks in advance
Jane
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Hi Jane,
I don't have the baptism for William but have one a bit later on for Edward that maybe for same parents.
June 21st, 1813 -- Baptism of Edward, son of John and Ann Graham of Sunnyside, occupation of father, householder and labourer.
May not be any connection but thought you might be interested.
Best regards, Bruce
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Thanks Bruce! I was hoping to trace the movements of the Graham family from Newbiggin to Sunnyside, and wondered if William would show me a stop-off. Only a sidebar in my searchings, but I am a bit desperate for clues as to which John Graham out of many I am dealing with.
I appreciate your time and trouble --and to save you more of the former and latter, I already have what seems to be all of the children of this couple. Back to the drawing board....
Regards
Jane
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For Lornahen, looking for a Stephen Graham of the Fauld
- there's a will proved at Carlisle in 1810 for a Grimston Graham of the Fauld, which mentions his nephew Stephen Graham, son of his late brother Andrew, also his niece Fanny Scaife, wife of William Scaife, and daughter of Grimston's brother David
A Stephen Graham was witness at the marriage of Frances Graham to William Scaife at Arthuret in 1808.
hope this helps
Bridget
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Hi again, all, and especially Bruce.
Do you know anything about this couple, whom I found among the Kirklinton MIs on
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/longtown20/kirklinton.html
''Richard GRAHAM of Newbigging(sic) died April 14 1787 at 74 years
Also Mary his wife died 1795, age 74 ''
I am hoping he might tie in with my John Graham who married Ann Scott in 1796.
There is a John Graham baptised at Kirklinton with a Richard as father. Unfortunately the vicar of those days was a minimalist...
Also, does anyone know anything about court books? Am I right in thinking they may give information on the owners of various properties down the years?
Happy Tuesday to all
Jane
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HI Jane
there is also this MI from Kirklinton with some Grahams of Newbiggin
To the memory of William the son of Peter Graham of Newbiggin who died July 5th 1787 aged 44 years. Also Ann wife of John Mattinson of Halfway House who died March 22nd 1831 aged 47 years.
cheers
Bridget
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Bridget, hello! :)
Many thanks for the Graham of Newbiggin MIs. Did you find them on the web site, or do you have some other source of information? I am trying to put together a history for this particular branch of the Graham family and am Newbiggin-ing to realise the enormity of the task! ??? ??? ???
Regards
Jane
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Hi Jane
its actually my own website - i've got a few additional MIs to add to Kirklinton and Nicholforest but haven't got time to add them yet.
My own Graham family are from Kirkandrews on Esk so i'm afraid i can't help you with any of the Newbigging Grahams - i'm just as confused trying to sort my own lot out!
cheers
Bridget
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Bridget,
I must send you congratulations and thanks for your brilliant website. A great service to genealogy
Maybe one day we will sort the lot of them out, down to Adam Graham, born Eden, Middle East..
Regards
Jane
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New to RootsChat but very interested. It seems that most of this thread is about the northern Grahams. If anyone has any info on more westerly Grahams I would appreciate it. I'm back to 1800 around Bolton then moving west to Dearham. Unfortunately the parish records for Bolton around 1800 are practically unreadable.
Anyone wanting access to my lot can find them on
http://gw0.geneanet.org/bobgraham and if the hyperlink doesn't work (it has been playing up) search for geneanet, on the site search for graham and workington and my bit is usually the first reference. It's all free and I'm selling nothing!!
bob
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For Lornahen, looking for a Stephen Graham of the Fauld...
Bridget
Bridget, that is fantastic news. Thank you very much
I guess my hunt now progresses backwards to Stephen's newfound father Andrew, and the sideshoots of Grimston GRAHAM of Fauld and his brother David, and the SCAIFEs you mentioned.
Wonderful, many thanks
Lorna
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Bruce
I am researching the Grahams over in Alston if that's of any interest.
Jono
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Alston. That's scary for us West Dumbrians. On our maps around Alston, it says"Here be Dragons".
:>}
bob
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Dalston, a few km's south of Carlisle is as close as I get to Alston. How is the research going?
Regards, Bruce
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Sorry Bob,
I should have asked.. where are you researching and what names?
Regards, Bruce
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Locally, I'm researching Grahams and Greenops on fathers side. Greenops much easier than Grahams are there are so few of them. Further afield it gets worse as grandfather and grandmother on mothers side were both Smith!
I actually live in Carlisle but trying to persuade my wife that I need to retire to France.
Got both Grahams and Greenops back to 1800. They can be seen at
http://gw0.geneanet.org/bobgraham
bob
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MMM! being new to rootschat, how do I get that little para underneath telling everyone whom I'm interested in?
bob
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MMM! being new to rootschat, how do I get that little para underneath telling everyone whom I'm interested in?
bob
Hi Bob,
check out the Profile button at the top of the page
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Reading this thread, particularly Papamoa’s posts, I noticed a number of names and places that rang bells from searching my husband’s Ferguson ancestors who hail from Kirklinton. Thomas Ferguson lived at Moathill from around 1750 until his death in 1779. His wife and surviving sons continued to live there well into the 1790s. Papamoa – what you say about Moathill’s location confirms my deductions. Have you actually found it on a map, or know any more about the place ?
Thomas’s sons appear to have had a “thing” for the Graham ladies:
Alexander Ferguson married Mary Graham of Newtown in 1788.
Thomas Ferguson and Elizabeth Graham of Newbiggen had two illegitimate sons, William in 1783 and Thomas in 1786. In 1789 he married Margaret Graham of Newtown.
Richard Ferguson married Isabella Graham of Newtown in 1793. In 1800 & 1801 they were at Newbiggen according to the baptism and burial record sof their son William.
(Only my husband’s 3 x great grandfather John bucked the trend by marrying a Sarah Barnes.)
Does anyone have more information on these Graham ladies? Are they from the same family?
Thanks
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Hi Penny,
Yes I have located where "Moathill" was, better still I have photographs of waht remains of the house, just some rubble in a field.
If you would like to send me your E-Mail address, I can send you copies of the photos.
We may be able to find some family connection together.
Regards, Bruce
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Hi Jessy, I know this is not about the Graham's but you state you live in the gamekeepers cottage do you have any details of the gamekeeper's that have lived there as my great great grandfather John Tuddenham was a gamekeeper I believe for this estate. He would of been there about 1837 and he was from Norfolk originally. I would be very gratefully for any information. Norma
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Hi Papamoa
I have a William Graham (b Hethersgill, Kirklinton, c1818), possibly son of Jane Graham (b c1776), whose first wife was Sarah Holliday and whose second wife was Jane Lidderdale. In the interim, he appears to have fathered children to his house keeper Ann Gordon.
Children of William Graham are (or appear to be):
John Graham b Walton, Brampton 1844 (mother Sarah Holliday)
William Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton 19/12/1845 (mother Sarah Holliday)
Thomas Gordon b Hethersgill, Kirklinton 30/11/1847(mother Ann Gordon)
Mary Gordon b Hethersgill, Kirklinton 04/12/1849 (mother Ann Gordon)
David Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton 21/07/1852 (mother Jane Lidderdale)
Jane Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton c1853 (mother Jane Lidderdale)
Sarah Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton 25/12/1856 (mother Jane Lidderdale)
Margaret Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton c1859 (mother Jane Lidderdale)
George J Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton c1862 (mother Jane Lidderdale)
Elizabeth Graham b Hethersgill, Kirklinton c1864 (mother Jane Lidderdale)
William Graham Snr was living at Leaps Flosh 1844, Yad Hill 1845, and Cocklet Hill 1851, all Hethersgill, Kirklinton.
P.S. Spent two sublime holidays at Papamoa Beach, Tauranga, 2004/5 and, yes, climbed Mount Maunganui
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Hi, Having been looking at my Marriner and Tuddenham family again I have found my Great great great grandfather Jonathan Bell married a Mary Graham 1841. He has had children with a Margaret Crozier ( which is my line) not married and then marries a Jane Moody 1824 before marring Mary. Does anyone have any information on this family connection, possible parents of the three people named. Many thanks. Norma
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Hi, My Graham family come mostly from the Workington Cumberland area. David Graham b.1793 married Mary Sharp b.1787 at St Michaels Workington 1818 son John Graham b.1820 m. Jane Hodgson. Other siblings of David &Mary were Isabella b.1822,Jane b.1824. Richard b.1826
If they ring any bells,please let me know. So many Grahams !
Jsearch
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Hi to all who are reading this thread.
I have reasonably comprehensive extractions of The Bishop's Transcripts for Arthuret, Kirklinton & St Cuthbert's Carlisle. All Graham names I'm sorry.
Hi Bruce,
when you are back from Cumberland, could you send me a transcript of the baptism entry for William Graham?
Bapt. Arthuret 8 JUN 1764, son of Robert G. and Frances.
Hope you enjoyed your trip and found some news?
If you are interested in monument for this capt. Graham or gravestone of Lady Catherine Graham nee Stewart, d 1836, let me know.
Regards,
Elisabeth
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I have started researching the Grahams of Cumberland to get information on my Graham side of the family. Does anyone have information about the Grahams of Egremont. My mother Mary was a Graham, her father John Ewart Graham born in 31 December 1886 was an Iron Ore miner at the Florence Pit all his life, and his father William Graham born in Egremont in 1859 was also an Iron Ore miner. I do believe that Williams father was also a William, and was also an Iron Ore miner, but to date I have not been very successful in establishing that. What I do know is that 'my Grahams' were all from the Egremont and St.Bees area, right back to the early part of the 1800's. There is a Liverpool connection too in that a Graham went to work in service in Liverpool - that could be George who was born in 1858, or a daughter called Minon. Can anyone help?
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Hi...
I've just discovered that my GGGG Grandmother was Elizabeth GRAHAM born abt. 1766 in Nook, Nichol Forest, Cumberland and she married John FORSTER (or FORRESTER) on 25 Jul 1785 in Nichol Forest. Her father was William GRAHAM born abt 1721. He married an Elizabeth Scott.
If anyone has these people in their tree I'd love to hear from you.
BTW the updated Dodgson Manuscript found on http://www.geocities.com/MadisonAvenue/3333/routledge.html mentions many GRAHAMs from Cumberland.
Cheers,
Diane
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Tansylee,
My ancestor David Graham was living in the parish of St Bees
( 1841 census ) He was born abt.1791 ,his wife was Mary.( nee Sharp )
chilldren were David,Isabella,Jane,John,B.1821 Thomas & William.
Any connection to your Grahams ?
My Graham ancestors ,John (grt grandfather x 2 ) b.1821 moved to Birkenhead, Wirral,the other side of the River Mersey to Liverpool.
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I am looking for information on John Graham, born circa 1824 to Eliza (nee Bird) and William Graham. They left Maryport for New Brunswick, Canada, in the early 1830s.
Does anyone have these names and/or dates in their family tree? Census records from 1841 Ellenborough and 1851 Maryport have given me some POSSIBLE family links, but nothing solid.
Beth in Canada
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Bumped in case a Graham/Grame has this thread on auto-notify.
I am looking for information on a Mary Graham (b: 1802) possibly daughter of Thomas Graham (Grame) and Sarah Kail in or around Whitehaven. She married Andrew Hudson and immigrated to Canada around 1820. Anybody have common Graham ancestors?
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Hi bejodo and shane
Welcome to rootschat. If you do not get a response on this post it might be a good idea to start a fresh post on the Cumberland look up board. Another option is to send a personal message to the other Graham researchers. You do need three posts before you can do that though.
I hope you manage to make contact.
Andrea
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Much appreciated. I have done that very thing, earlier today. I just figured with all the Cumberland Graham discussion in this thread, someone might see it if I posted here and triggered 100 "notify me" messages. :D
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Well trigger was set off - so that worked!! ;)
Got a few Grahams in Cumberland , got Wright rellies who where in St John, NB but who travelled the other way in 1840's to Liverpool - but no connection unfortunately to yours (at present) - will keep this in my "to watch" list.
Good luck on your Graham hunt!
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The following was sent to me in error by "Razzy" as a Report to Moderator
Grahams of Eaglesfield. I am looking for more information on George Graham and his wife Margaret. I have misplaced what information I had. They started to raise a family there around 1813 or earlier. I do not yet know from where George came from and Margarets' maiden name, and, where they were married
I am assuming it should be on this board and hope he/she will pick it up here and respond by clicking the Reply button below the post.
Andrea
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HI papamoa,
Any info on ANNE GRAHAM b abt 1806 Scaleby m 1833 to Joseph JOHNSTONE. and MARGARET GRAHAM b abt 1781 Edmuns Castle m 1808 to THOMAS HETHERINGTON
cheers cundy.
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Hi
I have been looking for a very long time for Gr Grandfather Thomas Graham born Irthington circ1822
married Elizabeth (?) born circa 1832
they moved to Haltwhistle northumberland
any one got details>? I have hit a brick wall here
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Hi Tansylee,
i guess I am three years late. In my own research I came across a John Graham mason of Egremont marrying a Grace Wilkinson on December 24th, 1792 in Cockermouth, Cumberland, England; FHL #1472292 with banns.
I have started researching the Grahams of Cumberland to get information on my Graham side of the family. Does anyone have information about the Grahams of Egremont. My mother Mary was a Graham, her father John Ewart Graham born in 31 December 1886 was an Iron Ore miner at the Florence Pit all his life, and his father William Graham born in Egremont in 1859 was also an Iron Ore miner. I do believe that Williams father was also a William, and was also an Iron Ore miner, but to date I have not been very successful in establishing that. What I do know is that 'my Grahams' were all from the Egremont and St.Bees area, right back to the early part of the 1800's. There is a Liverpool connection too in that a Graham went to work in service in Liverpool - that could be George who was born in 1858, or a daughter called Minon. Can anyone help?
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Hi Thanks Sillgen/Andrea,
So who is George Graham of Brigham who married Margaret 'Graham' of Cross Canonby on Feb 9th, 1800 in Brigham?
Maybe this is not the couple I need to find. It seems that Georges' wife would be Margaret because of the following census' below.
FHL parish records #1472080 (cross canonby) has them married.
There was no mention of either one being widowed on the parish record.
The marriage certificate says they were married in the Register office John (R---iey[looks like three 'u's]) Taylor.
The witnesses to the marriage on Thomas and Eleanor nee Rogan
are James Thompson and Mary Ann Brisco.
This is the last person I am absolutely sure of. I am not an expert. My ancestor was his son. On the death certificate my ancestor his parents were Thomas Graham and Eleanor Rogan.
By the way, Eleanors' father was Daniel a blacksmith
The nearest George Graham of Brigham (FHL #90573) I can find is christened Dec 13th, 1763 son of James Graham of Mosser.
Silly me, I had already sent back the Cross Canonby FHL film before I knew this, so I do not know if Margaret would have a maiden name or if it is 'Graham'; no mention who she is the daughter of neither in the marriage.
I cannot find a Margaret Graham being christened in Cross Canonby records.
There is an abnormal pause before George and Margaret start having children.
I then find a George Graham of Eaglesfield having children with 'Margaret'.
I am able to find children christened in 1815 (William) and 1819 (Eleanor).
Thomas Graham is defintely born in Eaglesfield to a George Graham.
Depending on the following Thomas is either born in 1813,; 1822; 1827.
I cannot find an Eaglesfield 1841 census on Ancestry Library edition mentioning a George; George and Margaret; or a Thomas.
On Thomas Grahams marriage certificate (district of Cockermouth) in 1857 he is a bachelor age 30.
His father George is a husbandman.
There is no mention of him being christened in Eaglesfield at any date.
Ok, so his mother had him christened elsewhere, maybe where her mother is. So where is this place?
So without knowing for sure who his mother is (maybe Margaret) I am unable to find this Thomas' christening.
In the Brigham Allerdale above Derwent 1841 census, I have a George Graham age 65 and a Thomas age 25 both as Teachers. It seems a bit for George to go from husbandman to teacher.
In the 1851 census page 197 I have Thomas (born in Eaglesfield) as a farm servant in Crossthwaite and Borrowdale very close to where he was married (was working in Crosby and his future wife was working in Bothel).
There the enumerator or whomever he is asking says Thomas is 27 thereby pegging his birth @1822-24.
after two years of marriage in 1861 on the census and every ten years after that to 1881 (I cannot find either Thomas or his wife Eleanor in 1891) his birth year is 1813.
Always he is born in Eaglesfield, always born in 1813- but I am unable to find him baptised anywhere.
Eleanor in every census changes her place of birth between Ireland, Whitehaven, and Hayton.
I have searched parish records in Aspatria, Dean, Dearham, Whitehaven (Saint James and Holy Trinity), Bromfield, Brigham, Cockermouth All Saints, Cross Canonby, Maryport, Gilcrux, Hayton, Crosby upon Eden, and Plumbland.
I have been able to find a George Graham of Stanwix being married to a Margaret Kirk of St. Marys (Carlisle) in Gretna Green in November 1813.
I have not been able to find a Thomas son of George Graham of Eaglesfield or Brigham being christened anywhere.
I have found possibly this George and Margaret (nee Kirk) age 45 and 40 respectively in Carlisle in living with John age 45 and James age 85.
Other than that it is hard to come by a George Graham, husbandman in my searches.
1861: Allerby, Cumberland
Thomas Graham 48 Head M Coalminer born Eaglesfield, Cumberland
Eleanor Graham 30 Wife M born Hayton, Cumberland
Margaret Graham 3 (no rel given) born Allerby
Thomas Graham 1 (no rel given) born Allerby
William Graham 22 Boarder Woolen Spinner born Eaglesfield, Cumberland
1871 census is Allerby and Oughterside page six in the village of Allerby.
house #23
Thomas Graham 58
Eleanor 39
Margaret 13
Thomas 11
Annie 7
Mary Jane 4
infant (I'm guessing Charles)1 week
1881 Allerby, Oughterside & Allerby, Cumberland
Thomas GRAHAM 69 Cumberland, Farm Labourer
Elenor GRAHAM 49 Ireland Farm Labourer
Mary Jane GRAHAM 14 Allerby, Cumberland, Scholar
Charles GRAHAM 10 Allerby, Cumberland, Scholar
George GRAHAM 5 Allerby, Cumberland, Scholar
So, in confirming the correct birthdate of Thomas is; where he was christened; in find out who his father George is; confirming his mothers identity, I can then start to move.
As it is, I have a brick wall.
So, if Papamoa, or anyone can help it sure would help me,
Thanks,Razzy
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Eaglesfield - part of Brigham parish http://genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CUL/Where/
Map http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=309583&Y=527962&A=Y&Z=126
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Hi Geoff,
Thanks,
I have seen the online parish records of Aspatria before. I even ordered the FHL microfilm. My ancestor was supposed to be born in Maryport but instead it seems he was born in Allerby or Aspatria.
However The George I am looking for is not in Aspatria.
I have the parish record for Eaglesfield but my Thomas is not christened there. However there is a George and Margaret Graham there- George is a husbandman.
So I do not know where Thomas was christened or where George was from or where he was married.
Razzy
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Hi papamoa
I live in tauranga.would be intrested in your knowlege on the grahams.
I am a graham, Have been trying to trace them.
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Hi Papamoa
I have recently started researching the Graham family from the Dalston + Longtown areas of Cumberland.
One of my Bruton relatives married into the William Coulthard Graham family in the 1920's. Their son ...................... married a woman from New Zealand in 1968.
Family names include
Andrew - born Dalston 1875. Lived in Low Brewery, Dalston in 1911.
Sibs include Thomas, Clementina, Elizabeth, William and Christopher
and their father
Thomas - born Dalston abt 1838.
Moderator Comment: Name of person who may be still living removed in accordance with rootschat policy.
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hi, ive come across a painting through somebody i know, its the original painting of lady catherine graham nee stewart dating back to around late 1700 to early 1800. im looking for any1 who would be interested to get back intouch, thanks.
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hi, ive come across a painting through somebody i know, its the original painting of lady catherine graham nee stewart dating back to around late 1700 to early 1800. im looking for any1 who would be interested to get back intouch, thanks.
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I am trying to find (on behalf of a friend) the family of William Graham, shoemaker, and his wife Ann Harkness. Their daughter Margaret Ann was probably born in Hayton around 1855 or so, and she is my friend's direct ancestor.
Having trouble finding this family in the Census.
Thanks,
Diane Main
San Jose, California
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I am looking for information about a Mary Ann (or Miriam) Graham who died in London in 1849, but was born in Netherby. Her first child was born in 1824 or 1825, which suggests that her date of birth would have been between 1800 and 1810.
I am emboldened to ask the question having seen the depth of knowledge displayed in this discussion.My enquiry relates to an article I am writing for private circulation. Any information would be very much appreciated.
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What do you know of parents' or siblings' names?
As with this generation and several others, we all names our children after ourselves and our parents.
What did her father do for work?
We should be talking of english heritage Grahams, correct?
Thanks
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Sorry, nothing at all. I am familiar with subsequent history, but not birth or parentage.
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ok, so what can you help us with?
You have been able to reach 1824 and therefore 1800 as you say so...
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Hi all
Am new to this Geneaology stuff, so saw this thread and hoped u may be able to give me some advice
I am also looking for Grahams - mainly from cumberland or so it seems
Up my small and sorry tree i have a GG Grandfather
Robert Graham (born 1845) - Spouse - Rebecca Lumb (born 1834)
Roberts parents are supposedly
John and Isabella (born abt 1802)
The locations are Longtown, Cumberland
I am really interested in finding out more about John and Isabella and also if anyone knows of their ancestors too, that would be even better
I saw there was a NZ connection
Robert and Rebecca are supposed to have died in NZ if that helps anyone
Many thanks for any help
Michael Graham
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Hi Micheal,
which Parish would Longtown be in?
My Robert was born in 1884 in Northumberland but his parents came from Cumberland.
Razzy
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Razzy and michael (loadsa), please be careful! There are millions of us bob grahams here in north and west cumbria (I exaggerate but the advise is good).
Razzy, get the marriage and birth certs and try to exclude by profession surplus dads. Yours should be the easier task.
Michael, get robert and rebecca's marriage cert where it will give their ages and dad's name and profession. Then search for birth certs with right dad and "similar" profession. bob
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Hi all
Welcome to Rootschat - four? new Rootschatters on one thread! Gives a clue to how difficult Grahams are round here!
That being the case, the more known facts you can give the better! The main parish for Longtown is Arthuret but as it's such a rural area that may not mean much - most people were outside the towns.
Best wishes
Emms
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Razzy and michael (loadsa), please be careful! There are millions of us bob grahams here in north and west cumbria (I exaggerate but the advise is good).
Razzy, get the marriage and birth certs and try to exclude by profession surplus dads. Yours should be the easier task.
Michael, get robert and rebecca's marriage cert where it will give their ages and dad's name and profession. Then search for birth certs with right dad and "similar" profession. bob
Hi Bob
lol yes exactly, thats why i am not accepting some of the possibilities in the well known Ancestry UK site, as theres so many possibilities and i want to make sure i am correct in the ones i find
The robert is correct, but his parents seem to throw up a few possibilities
Razzy - yes mine seem to be Arthuret Grahams
Also it doesnt help when many Grahams from this area are classed in profession as Labourers
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I do not have any Arthuret parish records.
In the search for my GRAHAMs I wrote down and retained alot of parish records on GRAHAM surnames. Longtown came up often.
However Arthuret is not one of the parishes I researched.
Is it possible Robert and Rebecca moved later to another parish or Roberts' parents John and Isabella came previously from anothr parish?
Razzy
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Razzy, google arthuret grahams and settle down for a couple hours following up all the leads. Unfortunately, if ancestors were classed as labourers or husbandman, you may struggle (like me and Michael) but if you're from nobility, you might well be in the money. bob
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At this point I need to follow up on John GRAHAM m Mary TROUGHTON April 25th, 1761 in Harrington, Cumberland.
I am trying to find Johns' roots as there are no GRAHAMs mentioned before this date in the Harrington parish.
Another is the origins of George GRAHAM b@1758 who married Johns' daughter on Feb 19th, 1800 in Cross Canonby.
Two separate GRAHAMs.
I am unable to find a GRAHAM marrying a LUMB in my research so far.
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Yay - i have moved forward a bit
now on
Robert Graham - 1737-1812
Catherine Carruthers - 1749-1823
again from Arthuret
and need info on Roberts parents, who i believe are
Robert Graham and Margaret Henderson
believed to be from Cleugh Head, Arthuret - but no real solid evidence on that yet
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Hi Michael
Really pleased you've moved on with your Grahams.
By the way, what do you know about Catherine Carruthers mentioned above?
We're studying some Carruthers from this area.
best wsihes
Emms :)
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Hi Emma
All i have on her is
Catherine Carruthers 1749-1823
married to Robert Graham
Lived in the Arthuret area, and reference to Kirkandrews
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Hi everybody..
Have any of your Graham relatives married a Doran/Dorn/Dornan or a Roney/Reney/Rennie in the Carlisle area please?
It is just that there is often a Graham living with or near my relatives, but I can't find a connection yet.
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Looks like the GRAHAM in question is a woman, the marriage mates' name seems to be male.
This can be more difficult to find.
Do you have GRAHAMs first name?
Razzy
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The Grahams I have come across are:-
1851: George Graham b abt 1831 Kirklinton, an unmarried lodger living with the McAdam family at 9 Water Street, Botchergate next door to my ancestor Thomas Roney.
1861: Mary Ann Graham b abt 1844 Carlisle is an unmarried lodger with widowed Ann Doran and children at Donaldson Court, Rickergate next entry but one to Joseph Roney and family.
Update 2.5.11 .........
1861:James Graham b abt 1841 Brampton - a boarder in household of Mary Carnaugham/n (55 yrs old), also a family linked to Doran/Roney
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Hi Scriv2: I have just read your first posting regarding Grahams, Rennie's and Doran's.
My grandfather was James Rennie Doran. His brother, Robert Doran married Susannah Graham 1892 in Carlisle. Susannah's parents were William Graham (born 1846) and Isabella Story (born 1850).
William had two sisters, Mary and Ann Graham, I am now wondering if Ann married a Doran and is the widow you mention in the 1861 census. Mary and Ann lived in Rickergate.
I have lots more info if you need any.
Cheers, Alison
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Hi
I am researching my family tree and have got back as far as a James Graham who was born 1800 in Farlam, Cumberland, he had a daughter Rebecca born 1825 and son James born 1844, they lived in Talking, Cumberland in 1861. Im struggling to find anything before James 1800
Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
Welcome to Rootschat! Enjoy ! It's great fun and you'll get loads of help.
You'll have gathered there are quite a few Grahams in this neck of the woods!
Thank you for all the information you gave us, but as it's such a common name could you give even more?!?
Could you tell us where you got the information you have? Have you seen registers or only the ones copied online? I'm just thinking you usually get too many, not too few Grahams, and maybe you went beyond the dates available, and it may be worth looking in the originals on film in the record office.
Enjoy Rootschat!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Hi again :)
Another thought!
Do you have the exact information for the birth or christening - date and parents? Or is it from a census?
Do you have the same for the birth of his children? And similar information from his marriage?
Also 1851 and 1841?
Maybe you could post the exact information to help identify him. I could check the originals for more clues if you haven't seen them. If you don't have them maybe you could post the earliest exact details ypou have?
Sorry if I sound fussy, but especially with a local name like Graham, the more we know the more chance of helping.
Enjoy!
It's great fun!
Best wishes
Emms :)
If you don't have it, maybe you could post the earliest
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Hi some more on my graham family - James Graham born 1800 in Farlam Cumberland deid 1880 possibly buried at Talkin Cumberland
His Son was James Graham 1844 unknown date of death
daughter Rebecca 1825 unknown death - as far as I know they both lived with their father at Farlam. Son James married a Jane ? DOB 1851 they had a son Matthew (my grandfather ) born in Blackford he married a Sarah Ada Marrs 1899 who lived St Ann's Carlisle - they had son Ronald Graham 1928 ( my father) as well as son's Jackie, Mathew daughters Agnes and Audrey. If anyone has any more information regarding James born 1800 please drop me a line
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A bit of a early one for you Papamoa,
Do you have a baptism/christening for a Jhaine Grame of [P]lump, (Jane Graham of Plomp) in your collection, she would have been born about 1600 and married Lancelot Armstrong of Whithaugh in Oct 1625 at Arthuret.
Rewcastle
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These Grahams do like to confuse their ggggggrandchildren!
My Grahams trace back to a John Graham born c 1801 Blitterlees and is listed as a roadmarker in several of the later census returns. He appeared to marry Margaret? from walk mill Scotland (b c1796) and they had two sons, Adam Graham (1826) and John Graham (1831). Adam Graham is my ggg grandfather. He had one son John Grey Graham born in Wigton about 1854.
I am guessing here that Adam may have been illegitimate (that margaret may have been pregnant when marrying John) because why called the second son after the father and not the first? The other reason for this is that I have taken a DNA test and we are (as far as genetics are concerned) Johnstones and not Grahams.
Does this ring any bells with anyone?
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Grahams, Johns(t)ons, Armstrongs! All Border Reivers and probably all related. bob
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Hi Bob... I agree. My DNA results came back with many other names that would be well known to the wardens of old... Irvings, Armstrongs, Elliot etc. However I had many Johnstones. Far more than any others and it all points to an NPE. My guess (without a paper trail) is that a young pregnant Johnstone widow travelled the few miles from Annan to Esk and married in to the Grahams. The Maxwells did have a habit of attacking the Johnstones from time to time!
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Hi all,
Trying to trace the ancestors of Mary Jane Graham born 1867 in Scaleby, married Thomas Alexander Gunn (of Brora, Sutherland) in Smithfield, Kirklinton Middle in 1899 and moved to Distington.
Her mother was Margaret Graham born 1845 in Scaleby daughter of John Graham b 1808 Kirklinton and Jane Graham b 1809.
I know nothing of Mary Jane's father or the family beyond John Graham.
Any help would be appreciated
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In my research I have a John GRAHAM marrying Jane JOHNSTON on January 27th, 1835.
I have no births available.
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Hello All.. this is my first post. I am looking for anyone with these Grahams in their family:
Alexander Graham c28 May 1740 at Rockliffe. Possibly son of William Graham & Margaret.
27 Oct 1770 Kirklinton - Alexander (now of Hetherside) married Sybil Sewell of Howberry (she signed Sibella Sewell) .. witnesses Alexander Wilson, Robert Sewell.
Their children christened Kirklinton : John c.2 Dec 1771; Robert c.13 Nov 1773 (father now of Hill, a husbandman); Margaret c.25 Feb 1776; David c.2 Oct 1777; Philip c.12 Dec 1779. (Philp's family stayed in the Kirklinton area .. found in census).
Second son Robert Graham married Rachel Lamb at Kirklinton 5 Nov 1806 (witnesses Margaret Graham, Philip Graham, James Graham, Bellow Gibson, Margaret Turner, Edward Routledge).
Robert & Rachel's children all christened Kirklinton: Sibel 1807-1810; John b1 May 1809 Carlisle, father Householder of Hetherside; Sibel b.10 May 1811;Robert c .29Oct 1815; Mary b.14 Sep 1816; Sarah b.14 Mar 1826 & Thomas c.9 Aug 1835. Occupation of Robert appears to be Shoemaker.
Son John Graham b 1 May 1809 also a Shoemaker (though shown as soldier at time of marriage to Mary Stoddart 7Dec 1831) and the family lived in Carlisle (Finkle St; Rickergate and/or Botchergate). John was in the US in 1850 (Baltimore) but did not return, 1861 census shows Mary as 'widow'. Love to catch up with anyone with any of these people in their family tree. Thanks in advance !!
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Unfortunately it does not seem I can help,
I have Carlisle, St. Marys transcripts from@1686-1794. GRAHAMs of both Rickergate and Botchergate are mentioned, No names you mentioned.
There is another transcript for Carlisle though, I thought I had searched that transcript but am not able to find it possibly I never ordered this other transcript.
I had came across an internet access to Kirklinton as well, but no names (Alexander) that you mentioned were on it.
Razzy
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Thanks for the quick reply Razzy, and also for checking the records you have. I have been HUGELY assisted by William Bundred over there and he has even found the headstones for me at Kirklinton. Alexander & Sybil/Sibbella Graham seemd to have stayed in the Kirklinton area. Even though son Robert moved into Carlisle, his children were taken back to Kirklinton for christening. So I guess I am hoping for (1) coming forward, any other descendants or (2) going backwards, any further info on William (b 1713??)& Margaret (b1718 ??) Graham, whose son Alexander was christened at Rockliffe 28 May 1740. Robert's son John disappeared in America in 1850. His widow and children appear to have then moved to the Liverpool area, with 2 of them later migrating to Austalia, and 1 to NZealand. Thanks again :) . Liz
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So fascinating.
My GRAHAMs came to Ontario, Canada however, two - (John) George and also Eleanor who married in Winnipeg, Manitoba also went south. Eleanor to Australia before WW1. George I have yet to find. Family says either New Zealand or Australia.
Razzy
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What are George Graham's details? ... the Australian records are online now, but as I live here, you never know, there may be some clue I can pick up on as to whether he was here. Liz
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Wow, I did not know you were in Australia.
My family knew hinm as George but in researching he was John George GRAHAM born 1878 in Isel, Cumberland, may have been registered in Wigton,Cumberland, England; son of Thomas and Sarah nee WATSON. Georges' sister was named Eleanor Wilson GRAHAM so I am confused where the Wilson came in. Sarahs' parents were Robert and Elinor u/k from Isel, Cumberland.
The GRAHAMs moved to Ontario, Canada in 1895 with Thomas' new wife Alice Jane. I have not paid for Thomas' previous wifes' death certificate from GRO yet.
On the 1901 canadian federal census, I found Georges' sister Eleanor but I have never found George successfully. Family says both George and Elinoar both moved to Australia or New Zealand. I had help to find Eleanor in the 1901 census as a a servant and later marrying in Winnipeg in the same year to Harold Vincent SHAW. Sometime later Harold and Eleanor moved to Coonam, New South Wales, also Mildura, Victoria.
But absolutely no information on John George GRAHAM in either Australia or New Zealand. No mention in any obituary of Eleanors' and no children of Vincent and Eleanors' named after George. I am still searching for Georges' other brother Robert. Family does not know what became of Robert so far.
If you are able to be successful that would be absolutely great!
thanks,
Razzy
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Hi Razzy, I had a bit of a look. There are a few John George Grahams here around the period. Many of the main early newspapers are digitised on our National Libraray site http://trove.nla.gov.au/ few in there but nothing to distinguish any as your JGG. I also checked our online archives http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/ .. there was a John George Graham signed up in WW1, but it says he was also in WW2 and I think your guy would have been a bit old then. NZ electoral rolls has a JGG, an Engineer in 1905-1906 (with Cecilia Graham) but again, nothing to distinguish him as your guy. Did you see a post by member jefna "Can anyone trace Robt Graham" here on rootsChat? .. as she is a Graham descendant who lives in Australia and your fellow was mentioned in a reply. Sorry I can't help much more. Liz
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My family knew hinm as George but in researching he was John George GRAHAM born 1878 in Isel, Cumberland, may have been registered in Wigton,Cumberland
A birth at Isel ought to have been registered in Cockermouth district, so perhaps ...
Births Jun 1878
GRAHAM John George Cockermouth 10b 592
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I'm not researching Grahams (it all sounds very complicated!) but I have a newspaper clipping dated 1919 from a scrapbook collated by my grandmother (for other names featured in the book, please see thread entitled 'Maryport Families') announcing the death of Mr Twentyman Graham of Hayton Cottages, Station Street, Maryport.
He was a well-known figure and, in his younger days, was a wrestler with his brother, Robinson. He had 5 sons and 4 daughters.
If this Twentyman Graham is one of yours, I'll happily transcribe the cutting and send via PM - let me know!
:)
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Hi Geoff,
I was not feeling well when I made my entry on John George.
When I saw your reply I went into my certificates and did find John Georges' birth certificate with Thomas and Sarah nee WATSON as his parents registered May 7th, 19878 born April 13th, 1878 in Allerby, sub of Maryport, district of Cockermouth.
Unfortunately I did not keep the GRO paper to confirm it was the same as what you researched for me 10b 592 Cockermouth births Jun 1878 but it is quite possibly the same.
If there is any way of finding what happened to him after arriving in Canada in 1895 at 17 yrs of age, I would like to know.
If I remember right, he was not in thwe 1901 canadian federal census.. The George GRAHAMs in the Yukon on the 1901 census (Klondike Gold Rush) are too vague and family never said any GRAHAM went there. Only that he went to New Zealand or Australia. Did he stay there or did he go elsewhere, return to England, or ??
Razzy
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Twentyman, GRAHAM, does the obituary mention his wife or his parents by name? my Maryport GRAHAM research only goes to 1862. Twentyman GRAHAM might have moved to Maryport from elsewhere?
Razzy
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Twentyman GRAHAM (according to the scrapbook) was... 'assistant overseer for the parish of Ellenborough and Ewanrigg... He was a Plumbland native and a founder of the Cumberland Miners' Union...His wife (not named in the piece) had died 6 years previously...Three of his sons were teachers, the eldest a partner in a Hull firm of shipbrokers and the other son was an analytical chemist... The funeral took place in Dearham, conducted by Rev FW Carpenter' - May 1919.
(nothing about parents - sorry!)
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Hi,
I am researching Grahams also believed to be of Netherby although they had moved to Skelton. John was baptised at Skelton Parents Robert Graham and possibly Mary Nelson? 30th May 1744, Father named in the register as Robert Grahame. No mother is named in the register but the Nelson name pops up in later censuses etc with the Grahams. John married Grace Hutton, formerly Relf 26th May 1781. Grace's first husband was Henry Hutton of Greystoke. She married Henry 1770 at Greystoke and had 2 daughters with him. Grace and John had 5 daughters, the one that I am descended from was Margaret born 1786 at Skelton and married John Swinburn of Dacre in 1814. We have a handwritten letter by Margaret's granddaughter Miss Jane Swinburn in which she state that John married Miss Graham a branch of the Grahams of Netherby. Did John's father Robert move from Netherby to Skelton? I have found a record of John's Will dated 1823, the marriages of his three daughters who married, associated Turner, Grindal and Swinburn, Grace and Sarah never married. John's occupation at Skelton was a carpenter and I also have records of his land dealings. He died in 1827 Happy to share information on this family and would appreciate contact with others researching the same family. Dene.
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Hi,
searching my Richardson line, I have a Mary Richardson b1848 Kirkandrews Upon Esk, Cumberland,(Her parents were John Richardson and Elizabeth Slater) who is supposed to have married into the Graham Family. I do not know his first name though. ???
Does she ring any bells with you all?
Thats all the info I have on her, as I mention, I am doing the Richardson Tree.
Happy Hunting
Carolyn :)
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Hi,
I have found a number of Marys but no Mary Richardson. Sorry that I can be of not much help.
Dene
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Hi
Not sure if any of this fits in with your family.
1841 census Kirklinton or West Linton / Phillip Graham and Jane (Telford)
1861/ 1871 / 1881/ 1891 census for William Graham and Jane from Thursby, Cumberland and their family all seem to fit with my family.
Hope this helps you. If you have any info that might fit with my family, I would appreciate the help.
Thanks
Nellie's girl
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Are these the Graham's that had the shop down from the Lonsdale monument in the middle of Penrith?
Also - bit off topic but if anyone comes across anything about the farm Longcleughside in Kirklinton, let me know, I was born in the Farm Cottages there!
Cheers, Tony.
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Wow the Graham's seem quite abundant in Cumberland!
I wonder if anyone could help, I'm currently researching a Elizabeth Graham, 1852-1928 b. Cumberland, lived mainly in Caldcoats, Caldewgate and then later in life married Andrew Forsyth, living in Carlisle.
I've found quite alot on Ancestry but seemt to be a bit stuck on info for her parents - I think her parents were Thomas Graham 1827-pre1881ish? and Ann Steen 1831-1906, looks like they ran the Jovial Sailor pub at one point, seem's so many possibilities for Thomas, although i think an entry on IGI points in the direction his father was William!
Anyway if anyone else has come across any research or this line of the Graham's in Cumberland, I'd love to see/hear what information you have.
Thanks :) :)
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Hi
I have a Janet Graham on my tree. Born 1810 - 1885, married to George Steel. Any information on her would be appreciated
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Wow the Graham's seem quite abundant in Cumberland!
I wonder if anyone could help, I'm currently researching a Elizabeth Graham, 1852-1928 b. Cumberland, lived mainly in Caldcoats, Caldewgate and then later in life married Andrew Forsyth, living in Carlisle.
I've found quite a lot on Ancestry but seem to be a bit stuck on info for her parents - I think her parents were Thomas Graham 1827-pre1881ish? and Ann Steen 1831-1906, looks like they ran the Jovial Sailor pub at one point, seem's so many possibilities for Thomas, although i think an entry on IGI points in the direction his father was William!
Anyway if anyone else has come across any research or this line of the Graham's in Cumberland, I'd love to see/hear what information you have.
Thanks :) :)
Welcome to the GRAHAMs of Cumberland madness!
Still interested in this family?
My interest has arisen from a dna match to a descendant of Thomas and Ann's dtr Agnes, but I don't yet know if it is this line my match is on, or a. n. other of my match's ancestors.
(If this is your Elizabeth you should come up with a good match to my match even if not with me, this was over at 23andme)
I've come to the conclusion that Thomas who married Ann STEEN and shown at the Jovial Sailor 1871 (Thomas & Ann)/1881 (Ann)/1891 (Ann) was Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM d. Feb 1874, son of a William and an Elizabeth, but which one???
In the same extracted batch of baptisms to a William and Elizabeth in St Mary's, there's also an 1825 Agnes GRAHAM, but no others.
But another batch number, also including Thomas Wilkinson, same date, same parents, has a set of 13 GRAHAM baptisms to a William and Elizabeth/Elizth all potentially the same family as only the first two would be a bit tight for births, but might be more than one family, or rather unlucky, given two Thomas, James and Agnes children listed:
Thomas 1813, Ann 1814, Jane 1815, James 1817 Sarah Caroline Benson 1820, William 1821, James 1823, Agnes 1825, Thomas Wilkinson 1827, Agnes 1829, James 1831, Wilfred 1833, George 1835.
Several of these are with William, weaver in Rigg St, 1841/1851:
William Graham 34 (as indexed, but really 54)
Elizabeth Graham 49
William Graham 20
Thomas Graham 14
Agnes Graham 12
Welford (as indexed) Graham 8
George Graham 6
Robert Graham 4
1851:
William Graham 63
Catherine Graham 63
Wilfred Graham 18
George Graham 16
Robert Graham 14
There's a William baptized 1787 St Mary's, Carlisle to a Robert GRAHAM and Elizabeth WILKINSON which seems likely for William and his parents.
They married 1784 St Andrews, Penrith according to extracted records on FamilySearch.
I'm trying to convince myself whether or not William is the above weaver in Rigg St, Carlisle, with Elizabeth in 1841 and a Catherine in 1851
Their Thomas is of an age to be Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM and I've not yet found a better candidate in 1841 for Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM.
Have only just started looking at the possible William/Elizabeth marriages.
Hope this helps someone, and someone comes out of the woodwork with the missing pieces.
https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=tree&person=LJRX-FB2§ion=descendancy
is the William father of Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM.
Regards
Lorna
http://LornaHen.com
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I have read that hese Cumberland Graham's don't seem to be related to their Scottish namesakes, which is a bit strange? Graham's in the west of Scotland who have an Irish origin are just as likely to be of Cumbrian origin than Scottish as many were shipped to Ireland by James VI.
Skoosh.
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Hi papamoa,
My direct line Wilfred Graham was born Carlisle 8 Jan 1833. Looking for info on parents given as William Graham and Elizabeth Mattinson. Wiliam's father was another William and his spouse given as Catherine (no more detail) both circa born 1790 in Cumberland.
Anything on these individuals?
Thanks
deebel
just noticed Lornahen seems to have struck this line
d
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Hi papamoa,
My direct line Wilfred Graham was born Carlisle 8 Jan 1833. Looking for info on parents given as William Graham and Elizabeth Mattinson. Wiliam's father was another William and his spouse given as Catherine (no more detail) both circa born 1790 in Cumberland.
Anything on these individuals?
Thanks
deebel
just noticed Lornahen seems to have struck this line
d
Deebel,
Wilfred looks more likely to belong to William and Elizabeth rather than William and Catherine - see relative ages in the 1841/1851 census records.
My current assumption, as yet unresearched, is that Elizabeth died between 1841 and 1851 and William remarried a Catherine.
I've not fully investigated this remarriage, but it looks likely.
Don't suppose you have any info on your Wilfred's brother Thomas to rule him in or out as Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM do you?
And info on which record specifically states Wilfred's mother as Elizabeth MATTINSON?
I do note that Elizabeth MATTINSON married William GRAHAM in 1830, which looks, on the surface, to rule her out of contention as mother of the older children in the Rigg St census, including Thomas bap. 1827 .
I was rather hoping someone might pop out of the woodwork who had read the baptisms of the period for St Mary's and pass on some handy occupational/residence clues for the assorted William and Elizabeth parents :)
Guess I'll have to order the film some year.
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...
I do note that Elizabeth MATTINSON married William GRAHAM in 1830, which looks, on the surface, to rule her out of contention as mother of the older children in the Rigg St census, including Thomas bap. 1827 .
..
PS looking at just the Carlisle marriages groom William on FamilySearch
Jul 1808 to Elizabeth DENNISON St Cuthberts
Dec 1813 to Elizabeth UNDERWOOD St Marys,
Mar 1814 to Elizabeth STEPHENSON St Marys
with several others further afield than Carlisle of course.
Wonder how many of the descendants of these GRAHAM families have ventured into autosomal dna testing?
It may eventually help sort them into families.
If anyone wants to check for lingering GRAHAM dna in my genes, I'm F105164 on GEDMatch.com
and yes, some dna persists a LONG time past the 4-6 generations these tests are meant to be good for.
My maternal aunt (F295025) has a fully triangulated match to GRAHAM families in Delaware/Virginia by 1710ish (from at least three separate branches over two families and several participants) which makes our common ancestor likely to be my line of Andrew & Jane GRAHAM of Fauld in the late 1600s.
In the States the two families were suspected to be linked but there's only circumstantial evidence.
DNA is adding to the overall information pool.
http://lornahen.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/chromosome-map-update.html
and earlier posts refer.
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[/quote]
Don't suppose you have any info on your Wilfred's brother Thomas to rule him in or out as Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM do you?
And info on which record specifically states Wilfred's mother as Elizabeth MATTINSON?
[/quote]
LornaHen
I do not currently have a documentary source for Mattinson. The name was handed down through family . My father interviewed a number of his elderly ancestors 25 years ago and the name Elizabeth Mattinson was stated as mother of Wilfred.( His GGF Wilf)
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Manchester Courier ... 22 December 1827
Marriages
...At Wetheral, Mr William Graham of Carlisle, wine and spirit merchant, to Miss Smith of Wetheral....
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Manchester Courier ... 22 December 1827
Marriages
...At Wetheral, Mr William Graham of Carlisle, wine and spirit merchant, to Miss Smith of Wetheral....
Sounds interesting coincidence of occupation with Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM being an innkeeper by 1871.
As this Grahams of Cumberland thread is way way long, I've started another more specific thread here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702973.msg5459194#msg5459194
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Can I join in here not had time to read right through the thread but I too have an Elizabeth Graham
She married William Nailer ( Naylor )21.1.1770
Children
James b 4 6 1771
Mary b 11 9 1773
Jane b 1.1.1776
all born Brumfield Cumberland
I follow the line from Jane who married Thomas Maghie
Elizabeth
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Im after info on Robert Graham (1844) married to Rebecca Lumb (1834) who travelled to New Zealand
Trying to find out when, where they went and why - also dd any others of the family go there
Plus there seems to be 2 or 3 possibles for who are the parents of Robert Graham - currently leaning towards Allan (alan, allen, alton) Graham
any info appreciated
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Im after info on Robert Graham (1844) married to Rebecca Lumb (1834)
As the marriage details don't seem to be online, you really need the marriage certificate which will give fathers' names. These are the index details that you need -
Marriages Dec 1864
Graham Robert Huddersfield 9a 446
Lumb Rebecca Huddersfield 9a 446
The cheapest way to get a certificate is from the official source.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Private companies will charge more than double the official £9.25
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ok thanks Geoff i will do that
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I am pretty sure i have the right details for Robert Graham
It says now on the 1851 census that Roberts dad is Alton Graham
Tho i reckon this is actually not the right name as it seems no Alton etc appears in the 1841 census anywhere who was born in 1818 as stated in the 1851 census
have checked UK and Ireland - so i guess i need Roberts birth certificate first?
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As Geoff suggested you really need the marriage certificate to confirm Roberts fathers name before trying to get a birth certificate
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Have you looked at the image of the 1851 census? It could be Allon so searching for variants of "Alan" might help. There is also another Graham family living next door who may well be related.
You do need that marriage certificate though.
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Searching for Allan/Allon brings hits in 1861 and 71. Still living next door to Thomas Graham. He has remarried and has more children.
Ah, I see you already have this
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762714.9
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Hi, Thomas Wilkinson Graham Forsyth was my Great Grandfather. Myself and my dad his grandson were just talking about him the other day. I have a family tree on the Forsyth side going back to the 1500's to the present day
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Hi, Thomas Wilkinson Graham Forsyth was my Great Grandfather. Myself and my dad his grandson were just talking about him the other day. I have a family tree on the Forsyth side going back to the 1500's to the present day
Hi JRF 123 and welcome to Rootschat.
Thomas W G Forsyth's grandfather, James, and my 2x Great Grandmother Jane were brother and sister.
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Probably been asked before but I have 3 Graham lines in my tree and all trace to Cumberland in Carlisle, Penrith, and Whitehaven
I was wondering how did the Cumberland Graham's originate compared to the scottish ones if anyone knows?