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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: deeiluka on Monday 22 January 07 11:05 GMT (UK)
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My gg-grandfather Frederick George BUTTON born about 1852 I know not where in England arrived in South Australia in 1878 with his wife Sarah and one little daughter. He and Sarah had 4 more children here in South Australia.
Sarah died in 1891 and Frederick remarried in 1895, his second wife dying in 1902.
My problem is that I cannot find Frederick's death in any records I have access to. He certainly isn't listed in the South Australian Indexes that I can see. He did have a son who moved to Western Australia - maybe Frederick went over there and died there.
If anyone can find his death anywhere, I'd be very very happy! Frederick's death is proving a huge brick wall.
......dee
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Hi Dee,
You Frederick George Button Died18 Mar 1941 in Western Australia at Kalgoorlie Cem is this what you looking for there Dee.
I think this could be his son' marriage John Thomas Button married a Gertrude Emma Attle in 1905 reg:1161. Perth there Dee.
OzyBob.
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hello thee Dee
well found Bob now how did you do that?
Found the marriage
of Frederick George Button and Sarah Ann Redwood in 1872 fourth quarter in Romford Essex
regards jenn
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Here are some Button births in WA.
Sadly only one could be definitely attributed to your couple.
A lttle stillborn in 1905 at Guildford.
Sue
http://www.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
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Here is where the little one is buried I think.
They named her Agnes I think.
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/search.php
Should really modify this to say that my assumptions are based only on the year of the death. [Not really enough]
Sue
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Many thanks all. Sorry I haven't replied sooner - got diconnected last night and couldn't get reconnected. And today I have been at the Genealogy Library in the city all day - searching every kind of record that may have revealed something about Frederick George Button. I found nothing!
And then I come home to find that you wonderful people have done some searching and helped me out.
OzyBob - I am sure that will be my gg-grandfather. And yes, John Thomas was his son - my Mum called him Uncle Jack.
Jenn, - yes, that's the marriage reference. i have the certificate. His father was Frederick George Button too - but have no idea where they came from as can find npo trace of them in any censuses - and lots of people have tried.
Didn't know about the stillborn child, Sue. I do know John Thomas had at least 4 more children after that.
I guess if I have Frederick's date of death, it should be possible to get his death certificate. Does anyone know what kind of details you find on a WA death certificate?
Thanks again, All.
.....dee
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20th century WA death certificates are very useful. I have a couple from the 1920s. It is somewhat dependant on the informant of course.
parents, spouse, children, where born, where buried, time spent in each Australian state. when & where married - plus the usual. Details for all certificates from each state are given here
http://www.sag.org.au/ozsources/civil.htm
Trish
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Thanks Trish - sounds like it would be well worth me trying to get one then.
.......dee
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hello there Dee
what a bout a copy of the mariage certificate Dont the british ones have some sort of detail on them ?
regards jenn
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Jenn,
I already have the English Marriage Certificate - that is how I know Frederick George Button's father had the same name. He married in Barking, Essex. However, it does not indicate place of birth, and as I mentioned, both Fredericks are well disguised in the censuses. It seems likely from browsing GRO BDM indexes that his birth registration was just as Frederick - making it more difficult to take an educated guess and order a birth certificate from around the right time.
.....dee ???
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hello there Dee
sorry about that I had just assumed re your comment about not knowing where he was born that you didn't have anything on him . ::)
regards jenn
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That' s fine Jenn - I just thought if I could get his death and then a death certificate - I might just be lucky enough to get a county of birth mentioned on it - that would at least be a starting point in looking for his birth and his family back in England.
.....dee
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I just reread the history you have given of Frederick - it seems a little unlikely that the informant would know all the details - unless it was his son & they remained close until Frederick died.
Sorry to be a little negative, but I have seen many records with unknown unknown for the parents - my husbands gg came from Staffordshire. He died in hospital & despite being buried by his son the doctor completed the death details & gave parents unknown, place of birth Qld Australia (Qld didn't exist as a European settlement at the time of his birth!)
If Bob could provide the source of his information, this may give more of an idea as to what may be available - if an index are parents available? If a cemetery record is an inscription available?
Trish
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hello there Trish
you read my mind thats why I queried Bobs source of information hoping a headstone minght have born and died
regards jenn
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In 1914 Jno T Button lived at 84 Picadilly Street Pic. [Picton?]
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/index.html
Sue
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Thanks Sue. Another little bit to add to my collection of information about the Buttons.
I've just realised - my grand aunt Lil - Lilian Button - married a William Robert Adair in Kalgoorlie in 1901. He died in 1919 - I know she returned to SA during my childhood. Lil was Frederick's second daughter.
I know a death certificate could be very diappointing, Trish and Jenn - but at this stage I am grasping at any little chance of finding a clue.
Perhaps I'll try sending OzyBob a PM and see if he can tell me where he got that information.
.....dee
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Hi Dee
I do understand - and in your position I would probably go ahead & buy the certificate - I just hate encouraging other folks to spend money & then the information is not as good as expected. Will cross fingers that he stayed with the son until he died and the son has all the good gen :) :) Do let us know
Trish
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http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/pdf/battye/pods/Post_Office_Directories_Contents.html
what about t he postoffice directory dee
regards jenn
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HiJenn.
That's where I found the address.
See reply #14
I did note however that neither Frederick or John were listed in the 1940 to 1941 lists that I looked at.
so not sure what that means.
Sue
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And I have just found that I can get a lookup of the Kalgoorlie Cemetery Board for $7.00. Could it be worth me starting with that, rather than the death certificate?
....dee
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When you say 'look-up at Kalgoorlie' ,Dee, what did they say you would get?
It would be useful to know who paid for the burial and any other administrative detals [funeral director etc,] as well as what is on the headstone if there is one.
Sue
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Just looked at another site, Sue ....
http://users.bigpond.net.au/kbcemetery/
It says from $13.00 for a lookup and doesn't seem to give details as to what you would get.
.....dee
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Getting a bit dear isn't it.
Is there no way they can indicate what you would get?
email?
Phone?
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/search.php
Just found your William Robert Adair at Karrakatta.
I went there last month.
It is enormous and beautiful.
sue
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Yes, Sue - I use MCB site all the time so knew about William Adair's burial. I have quite a few rellies who went west - a number of my Deimel families included.
I am thinking it is a bit expensive - might hang off a bit - see if there is anyone who might be visiting who could do a look up in person. I don't want to use my annual lookup/certificate budget all on one person in the first few weeks of the year! Lol. ;D ;D ;D
.....dee
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hello there
I do notice on the kalgoolie cemetery information page on the link from dee
it does say first free then 10.00 extra
so I would give them a ring or email to confirm that
dee did you find him on the post office search I wasn't able to do it yesterday hubby was hogging the computer >:(
regards jenn
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hello there De
a further question for you did Bob say how old was he?
and do you know from his wedding certificate how old he was then?
from the 1941 death it would indicate he lived to a good old age?
regards jenn
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Jenn,
Bob only told me where he got the information from, nothing more.
On Frederick's marriage certificate from England, he was of "full age"!
On his second marriage certificate in 1895 he gave his age as 44 and his father again as Frederick George Button.
His age was given as 25 on the passenger list of the Camperdown in 1878.
So I have always thought he was probably born around 1851-1852.
........dee
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hello there
I do notice on the kalgoolie cemetery information page on the link from dee
it does say first free then 10.00 extra
so I would give them a ring or email to confirm that
dee did you find him on the post office search I wasn't able to do it yesterday hubby was hogging the computer >:(
regards jenn
I will give them a ring - probably be next week though as I am rushing around this morning getting ready for visitors, and it is a holiday tomorrow. (Shouldn't really even be on the computer - Lol ;D )
As for the website - that is on my list for today - should I get the chance - probably will much later this afternoon.
Your help - and Trisha nd Sue's - is much appreciated.
.....dee
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Blimey - I have that CD - Australasian Genealogical Computer Index - I always forget to look at it - thanks to Bob for reminding me - now - he did make a minor transcription error - which means Frederick wasn't quite so old when he died!
Button Frederick George Kalgoorlie Cemetery Western Australia
Burial 18 March 1914 Burial Register - Source WA Genealogical Society
I don't know if you have this reference
http://www.wags.org.au/ - I have no idea what they do/don't charge for information.
There are some other Buttons on the CD
BUTTON Fred Wollongong General Cemetery Wollongong NSW Nov 1924
Burial Cemetery Transcript C of E Source Illawarra Family History Group
A numer of other records in NSW - some for a Frederick William Button - are these likely to be yours?
Trish
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Now, this makes a bit more sense I think.
the Post Office entry which I gave you yesterday for John, was for 1914.
As I said there was nothing showing for Frederck B..
Perhaps he was living with his son. so not listed.
In later yesrd, john is no longer listed.
Or as Frederick Georgehad a daughter living in Kalgoorlie, was he living with her?
Sue
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Oh - that makes a lot of difference, Trish. Thankyou for that. I think that CD would be a good one for our little local Genealogy group to get.
So he died in 1914 - which would explain why my mother didn't know much about him. She tells me quite a few interesting little bits and pieces about his children.
The other Buttons are not likely to be mine, thanks Trish.
Shall visit the WAGS website and see what I can find out.
.....dee
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Sue, I am sure he was living with one of them. What a pity I didn't ask Grand Aunt Lil when she was alive. Lol. ;D
.....dee
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You can buy the cd from SAG -
http://www.sag.org.au/store.html
$125.00 for individuals or $190.00 for libraries etc
Trish
Edit: There may be some more WA records - I'll have to look tonight - I am supposed to be out of here soon!
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hello there
Trisha
Blimey - I have that CD - Australasian Genealogical Computer Index - I always forget to look at it - thanks to Bob for reminding me - now - he did make a minor transcription error - which means Frederick wasn't quite so old when he died!
does this have The Field of Mars Cemetery index on it at ll
sorry to butt in here Dee
regards jenn
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You can only look up by name Jenn - who are you looking for?
It is basically a collection of records/indexes supplied to the Gen societies by members I think - bits and pieces from everywhere
Trish
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You can buy the cd from SAG -
http://www.sag.org.au/store.html
$125.00 for individuals or $190.00 for libraries etc
Trish
Edit: There may be some more WA records - I'll have to look tonight - I am supposed to be out of here soon!
Yes, Trish - I had a look at the SAG website and think I saw that small family history societies can also buy it for the lower price. It might be a good one for the little local society to which I belong to get - they are looking for useful CD-Rs at the moment.
.....dee