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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: oldbear on Saturday 10 February 07 22:41 GMT (UK)
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Trying to trace information on my G-G-G grandparents, hope someone can help me! Margaret Fleming was born around 1830 in Campbelltown, her parents were Alexander Fleming and Catherine Smith. Margaret married James Ferguson (who was from County Antrim) in Glasgow around 1849 according to my G-G grandmother Catherine's birth certificate. She was Margaret and James' third child. I can't find any record of the 1849 marriage and would appreciate any help.
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here's a wee starter
1861 census; 23 broughton street, edinburgh st mary
james...head...age 30...shoe maker...born ireland
margaret...wife...age 30...born campbelltown
henry...son...age 9...born glasgow
elizabeth...dau...age 7...born edinburgh
catherine...dau...age 5...born edinburgh
james...son...age 3...born ireland
mary...dau...age 10 months...born edinburgh.
do you have margaret fleming/ferguson's death cert? trying to figure out where alexander and catherine come in, as i cannot find them on earlier censuses.
Joe
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new search, found this
alexander married catherine 12th feb 1826, campbeltown
children from this marriage
margaret...born 26/11/1826
flora...born 8/10/1829
william...born 9/10/1831
elizabeth...born 15/1/1836
mary...born 1838
1841 census; kirk street, campbeltown
catherine...age 30...farm house servant
margaret...age 14
flora...age 10
william...age 8
elizabeth...age 6
mary...age 3
no sign of alexander on the 1841 census.
by 1851 census the whole family is spilt, think that catherine is either remarried or dead, cannot find anything else until the 1861 census.
i found a william living in greenock matching the william born in campbelltown.
Joe
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Fantastic!! Thanks Joe, your info is much appreciated. Here's what I have;
Margaret Ferguson/Fleming died August 24th 1863 in the Royal Infirmary Edinburgh,usual residence 23 Broughton St Edinburgh. She was 33 years old. Her father was Alexander Fleming, mother Catherine Fleming MS Smith. Her husband James Ferguson was the informant.
Catherine Ferguson was born on the 19th May 1855 at 23 St James Street Edinburgh, third child of James and Margaret. They were married in 1849 in Glasgow according to Catherines birth certificate but I've never managed to track this down. Margaret Flemings place of birth is Campbelltown. Catherine Ferguson (my GG Grandmother) returned to Glasgow from Edinburgh to have several of her children which intrigued me, was there family there who looked after her at this time perhaps, since her own mother was dead? Catherine had my (illegitimate) GGrandfather in Glasgow then married a James Coutts and had several more children. Still a few mysteries to solve!
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Hi Oldbear
The marriage doesn't show on IGI but does on Scotlands People, one of these things that sometimes happens. Always worthwhile starting out with the IGI given it's free to search, if nothing shows there, as you can see in this case, it's good to also check on SP. Images of the OPRs have recently become available to view on line, however, from that 1855 birth (and Joe's census info :)) for Catherine you have lots of info already on the family. OPRs can sometime include additional info, most often however they have no more than shows on the index.
From SP, these are the refs.:
06/07/1850 FERGUSON JAMES and MARY FLEMING @ Blantyre/LANARK 624/ 0040 0185
Added: Oooops, back to scratch, just realised it shows a Mary not a Margaret....
Regards.
Monica
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it would be nice to find your margaret in the 1851 census, i am really struggling, hoping some kind soul could help
Joe
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Trying to Joe ;) ...having the same problems.
Monica :)
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Hope all you folk can shed some light on James and Margarets marriage, as James came from Ireland I'm counting on the marriage info or James death certificate to get his parents names. How can I trace his Irish ancestry? As I understand it there's no online resource like Scotland's People for Irish genealogy? I've had a look for his death certificate online but it was going to be too expensive (there are a lot of James Fergusons around!) so I'll need to wait till next time I can get over to Edinburgh to Register House.
Ruth
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Hi Ruth
A chink of hope here....James would have been a relatively young widower following Margaret's death in 1863. Highly likely he remarried, specially with a young family.
I have found this entry on the 1881 Census:
James Ferguson, head, 46, ladies bootmaker, b. Ireland
Jane, wife, 42, b. Glasgow
Mary Rogan, daughter, married, 21, b. Edinburgh
Michael Rogan, son in law, 21, Stoker & Engine Keeper, b. Glasgow
Michael J Rogan, nephew (?), 10 months, b. Glasgow
Address: 13 Old Assembly Close, Edinburgh New North, Edinburgh
Could well be your James. If so, his second marriage cert. would confirm his parents :)
Regards.
Monica
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ooooaaaa monica!!! is that the answer to catherine running back and forth to glasgow?
Joe
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Good detective work Monica! I have a feeling James would have been born around 1828 (he was 27 when Catherine was born in 1855) so might have been a little older than 46 in 1881 but I guess these things were a bit vague at that time to say the least! I can't get him on the 1871 census at Broughton Street, I think you could be right and he has married again. Trouble is the man could be anywhere! Glasgow seems possible since Catherine has her children there.... My head is starting to birl ??? Help??
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Perhaps I should move this to the Edinburgh threads?
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I'd keep this thread running until Joe and I run out of ideas for you. It's the way it goes, you start looking in one area and find yourself moving around.
When was Catherine having her children in Glasgow?
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wonder if james was ever married?
found this on the 1851 census, wonder if you can make sense of it monica
1851 census; neilson, barrhead (household of bridget boyle)
james...lodger...age 26...shoemaker...born ireland
Joe
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She had my g-grandfather James Ferguson on June 22nd 1874 at 13 Graeme Street in Glasgow. In 1875 she married a James Coutts in Leith, Edinburgh and had Harry Coutts in September 1876 at 25 Havannah Street Glasgow. Jane Ferguson Coutts was born in 1881 in Leith (40 Tolbooth Wynd) but in the 1881 census the family are at 40 Old Sugar House Close - unless this is the same street.
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:) We're on the right track. Mary Ferguson married Michael Rogan in 1877 in Calton Glasgow. Mother Margaret Fleming, dec., father James, shoemaker.
1877 ROGAN MICHAEL FERGUSON MARY CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0271
Monica
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Pure genius!!
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So after Margaret died in 1863 James married Jane and his daughter Mary married Michael Rogan and they all live at 13 Old assembly Close by 1881. Right, I'm off to Scotlands People, where's the credit card....
Thank you Monica, you're a star!
Ruth
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Will let you know more as soon as I get it ;D
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Ruth
What area is Graeme Street in Glasgow (re James son's birth). Do you have the BC which would show this?
Monica
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Graeme Street is in the High Church area Monica, my g-grandfather James was born there, he would have been James snr and Margaret Flemings grandson. Hope this is clear, even I'm getting confused and I know the story! :-\
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1861 census; 7 spantmanth street, high church, glasgow, st james
the rogan family
john...head...age 24...rag dealer...born ireland
elizabeth...wife...age 30...born ireland
michael...son...age 6 months...born glasgow
hannah...sister...age 21...cotton picker...born ireland
2 visitors from ireland, david and jane fraker, david age 40 and mason;s labourer, jane age 43.
Joe
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Don't worry, I'm up to speed with who is who..I think :) I was just trying to get bearings on where in Glasgow James was born to see if it tied up with any of the James's Snr. marriages I'm seeing.
:) I've found James and family in Newington Edinburgh in 1871:
James, widower, shoemaker, 39. b. Ireland
Mary, daugh, 12 b. Edinburgh
Isabella, daugh, 9, b. Edinbugh
Robert Officer (spl?) son in law, hairdresser, 20, b. Ireland
Elizabeth Officer, daugh, married, 17, b. Edinburgh
Address 2 Drummond Street, St Cuthberts
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Boy, they certainly are back and forth between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Elizabeth daughter's new married name was Officer. From IGI:
ELIZABETH FERGUSON Marriages: Spouse: ROBERT OFFICER
Marriage: 27 SEP 1870 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
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Ok, expanding your family lines here! Elizabeth and Robert Officer's family have been researched before, a number of additional submitted info and actual extracts on IGI for their children. Sadly, lots of early deaths for some of their children:
1. JAMES OFFICER Birth: 09 MAR 1875 Motherwell, Lanark, Scotland...Death: 24 MAY 1882
2. ALEXANDER OFFICER Birth: 30 JAN 1872 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
3. MARTHA OFFICER Birth: 06 AUG 1873 Govan, Lanark, Scotland...Death: 21 SEP 1962
4. HENRY OFFICER Birth: 30 JUN 1879 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland...Death: 26 JUL 1880
5. MARGARET OFFICER Birth: 1877 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland... Death: 01 AUG 1883
6. ROBERT OFFICER Birth: 09 MAY 1876 Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland...Death: 24 MAY 1881
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no robert officer on the 1861 census, born ireland.
only irish family is living in govan
12, victoria street
david...age 45..lab
agnes...age 39
samuel...age 18
andrew...age 12
mary...age 10
Joe
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Mary Ferguson Rogan's death, also sadly too young:
1893 ROGAN MARY FERGUSON 29 BLACKFRIARS GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 0283
Father James is still showing as alive.
Monica
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Ruth
I think the next stage you should probably take up on your next visit to NRH. Tooo many James Fergusons (particularly in the Glasgow area) to do anything else.
Firstly you have marriages between James and a Jane (she could be a Jean/Janet/Jessie etc. on the cert.) between 1871-1881. The marriage could be either in Glasgow or Edinbugh area.
Secondly, re deaths, we know it was at least after 1893. James's birth year anywhere between 1828-1834 or thereabouts! In respect of areas, I can't see anything that fits in Edinburgh. Glasgow would be the next place to look. Then again if he was widowed again, he might have ended up near to his daughters. Elizabeth looks to have ended up in the Dunbarton area. I think Robert Officer died there in the 1920s (strangely no sign of Elizabeth on the death searches). You also have Catherine's details which will help as well.
Off to bed now!
Regards.
Monica :)
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Thank you so much Joe and Monica! You've given me so much more information to work from, your efforts are really appreciated. I'll keep posting with updates.
Best regards
Ruth