RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: bridgy on Monday 12 March 07 04:16 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Have just found out that the info I had for the family of my German g grandfather is wrong, his mother and father that is. ??? :-X Have had a search of the internet- google, IGI - and as usual a waste of time. About the only time I get a result is on this site so can you pls tell me where I can post a message looking for German rellies.
Much appreciated.
Regards
Jan
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If it's an uncommon name try searching telephone directory for that surname in the area.
If they lived in a village or small town try writing a letter. I found my relatives that way- they still lived in the same village- and I sent a letter to ___ Family, ___[village] near ___ [city].
P.S. maybe this topic should be moved to Immigrants topic?
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If you don't have any good clues from naturalisation records or census as to where exactly they came from, I suggest you read some books on the subject. It's not easy to find these people, and while people here could give some ideas, I think you would do well to read up on the various possibilities so that you can be systematic about it.
I don't know any particular place you can post except I think ancestry or rootsweb, but I haven't used them for a while. You may not get anything, so you may need to pursue it on your own. There are sites in German, if you know German; I don't.
You could try the Hamburg emigration records, available on ancestry or findmypast. I don't know where you or your ancestor lived.
Peter Towey has some books on this subject that are worth looking at, available from most libraries, or from the Anglo-German Family History Society.
Germany telephone directory found here:
http://www.infobel.com/teldir/result.asp?url=http://www.dastelefonbuch.de/
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Jan.
As allready stated, one of the Best sources of Info (re: German Immigrants to Britain) Is the Anglo-German FHS!
Read about It Here:
http://feefhs.org/uk/agfhs-bk.html
P.S.
There is a Link at the Bottom of the page for their Home page! ;)
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Pegasuss, aghadowey and loo
Have already typed out a reply to ag and loo when your reply was posted Pegasuss. Don't think I posted my first reply but anyway, to you three, a big thank you for your trouble in helping out. The family name is RICHTER by the way. Should have included it in my first post. It's a common name but there's a site I know of giving lots of info on the German settlement around Brisbane, Queensland. Will check that one out again. Plus your suggestion Pegasuss.
Once again, thank you all for your help.
Regards
Jan from Oz
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Jan.
No Problem!
I would have been Buried under a Ton of Brickwalls in My Research If Others Had'nt Helped Me!
P.S.
I was taught as a child that 'Helping Others' was What We where Put Here For! ::) ;) (If More in the World Thought this way, What a Better Place it Would Be!) ::)
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:D :D
Amen to that thought, Pegasuss!! Keep it 'out there'. the world today needs good vibes from people like you than ever before.
Jan
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You're very welcome.
I don't suppose he was one of the hairdressing Richters, was he?
If so, there is a book about German hairdressers in London published by the Anglo-German Family History Society which you might find interesting. I have a copy, as my German ancestors were hairdressers.
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;)
Hi Loo
I wish!! As far as I know my Richters were farmers and my g grandfather was a train driver - a long way from the hair dressing salon, eh!!
Thanks any way. If I have time tomorrow will check out a few web sites and see what I can find.
Regards to all
Jan
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There are some tips here that you could try:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.0/topicseen.html
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Hi guys
Have not been idle though should not be spending so much time on family history!!
Think I have found the ship that my Richters came to Australia on. All names and time lines seem to fit. I think they came to Queensland on the 'Susanne Godeffroy' - left Hamberg 6/5/1865, arriving in Brisbane 8/9/1865.
So that's a start. Now at least can investigate siblings etc in Australia.
Thanks again for your help. If I need anything else, will definately contact.
Bless you all
Jan
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Hi Jan,
I just had a thought - if your Richter's died in Australia, their death certificates should/might contain information about parents etc etc (you are most probably aware of this already).
Do you have information about their naturalisation in Australia? Have you looked on the National Archives site? www.naa.gov.au/
Can't remember how, but I found a couple of "foreign" rellies on there ages ago. They have files on some/all of them. Some files are 'open' some files are 'closed', but you can request them anyhow I think.
If you post a request on the Australia/Qld board there are several people who have the appropriate bmd disks who may help you look up your Richter family.
Good luck.
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Hi Ruskie
Thank you so much for these suggestions but am afraid they won't do me any good.
You see the information on the NAA site only starts from 1901 - the year Australia became a nation and my rello came to Aust in 1865 I think and then there was no need to be naturalised. Also I believe he died in the Dunwich Benevolent Asylum in Brisbane, Qld and those files are not easy to get at. Will take up your suggestion of posting on the Qld board.
Many thanks again
Regards
Jan
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Oh, that's a shame. I didn't think to look up dates of NAA records sorry.
If you need anything specific looked up at the Qld State Archives, I can do that for you.
I'm not sure if they have what you're looking for, but let me know if I can help.
Do you have the appropriate death certificte/s?
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Hello Ruskie :)
thank you for your kind offer and I will certainly accept help. If you go to the Qld state Archives can you pls look for a death and the reason my G grandfather was put into the asylum in the first place?
Details are
Herman Charles Ernst RICHTER d. 15/10/1924 (that's the date I was given by relations). Herman lived in Ayr, Nth Qld with wife Elizabeth, was a train driver and died in the Dunwich Benevolent Asylum in Brisbane. His story has a mystery about it because when his daughter Margaret (my grandmother) married in 1913, her marriage certificate was signed by her mother, not as Elizabeth Richter but as Elizabeth Roberts (her maiden name). I've been wondering why and naturally making up lots of stories but would really love to discover the right one. Have a second cousin who has done all the family history but she is one of these people who won't share - not like the members of this forum!!
Anyway, if you can look this up for me - at your leisure, pls don't make a special trip - I will be truly grateful.
Didn't realise you were another Queenslander. We are everywhere aren't we? ;D
Regards
Jan
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Hi Jan,
I'll see what I can dig up for you.
Not sure when I'll get to the archives but early next week is a possibility at the moment.
Do you have any further information about the asylum? Do you have Herman's death certificate?
What an interesting story. It all sounds very puzzling!
Yes, there are a lot of Aussies on rootschat!
PS. Just found some info about the Asylum - it appears that their records are at the Archives, so here's hoping!
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Hi,
You look as though you are posting from Australia. If you search this website you will find there are some Richeters - most went to America but I did see one family that went to Australia.
I didn't search the full 17 pages of Richers so you need to do a full search for yourself. Each emigrant/auswanderer has an archive reference :-
http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de/
1. Richter, Julius
3. Bergmann
7. Australien
10. wird am 24. 02. 1861 Pate von Richter, Karl Georg
Julius Adolf, geb. 25. 01. 1861, Sohn der Eheleute
Richter, Karl Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm und
Richter, Johanne Christiane Augustine, geb. Zeuner
in Clausthal zusammen mit Richter, Karl, ebenfalls dort
good luck,
Rena in England
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National Archives Australia website lists:
Herman Carl Richter born Redsburg, Germany in WWI records (12 pages in file). Is he any connection? If so, this might give a place in Germany to search further.
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Herman Carl Richter / Herman Charles Richter .... not a bad match!
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Thanks, Rena, for that link. It enabled me to access a record that I had known about, thanks to another rootschatter, but been unable to view previously.
Wondering if anyone has ever received one of these Auswanderer files from Niedersachsen, and, if so, did it tell you anything that isn't in the index? The index info on mine is relatively scant, so don't want to invest if I won't be any further ahead, as it's expensive to hire someone to do lookups there.
Also, another q related to this record: Under the person's name there are various points of information, which are numbered. In the RICHTER case above, they are #1,3,7,10. On my record of interest, they are 1,5,7,8. Is there somewhere where it tells us what these numbers refer to precisely? #7 seems to refer to destination.
(Hopefully the answer to this will be of interest to bridgy.)
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Hi guys
I believe my Herman Charles was born in Bernau, Prussia.
Don't believe he was in WW1 . He would have been too old - born in 1855. His son did serve though.
Do not have a death cert unfortunately.
Thank you all so much for your leads. Rina just had a quick look at your site but it's in German and can't see where to convert it to English. thanks anyway.
Ruskie, if you can find out anything from the Qld Archives I'll send you a big hug and kiss - via a post that is. Thank you so much for trying.
To you all you are the best. Why belong to any other than RootChat?
Regards
Jan
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Hi again Jan,
A few questions for you if you don't mind:
What makes you think Herman was born in Prussia? Do you have additional information?
What is Herman's sons name? (the one who served in WW1) - do you know where and when he died?
There are many sites which you can use to translate from one language to another - I think if you just type something like "online translator" into google, many will come up. You usually can only translate a certain number of words at a time, but you can do this in batches. Some translators seem to be better than others, so you might like to have a fiddle around to find one which suits.
If you know Herman's date of death you should be able to buy his death cert - it might be worthwhile ... if he was in the asylum he probably didn't have a will, but I will check when I go to the archives (death certificates are often included with wills, which is fantastic!) - I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you though.
Have you googled Dunwich Benevolent Asylum? There's a fair bit of information about it. Quite interesting.
Do you know when Herman's wife Elizabeth died? Perhaps she left a will? If you can give me a date and place I will look for you.
Looking forward to finding more about Herman!
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I have always found Babelfish to be Ok at Translating:
http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/babelfish/tr
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Hi again Ruskie
What makes you think Herman was born in Prussia? Do you have additional information?
The bit about Bernau, Prussia came from the Bethania web site - address
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wouter.busnach/familypages/index.htm#TOC
However, it was on there that had the wrong mother so maybe the birthplace was wrong. But on his marriage cert it gives his birthplace as Bonner (sp?), Berlin, Prussia so it looks as if he was born somewhere in Prussia.
What is Herman's sons name? (the one who served in WW1) - do you know where and when he died?
Son # 1 - Robert Gustave b. 1888 (Ravenswood) d. 1947 (B'Bane). Info on death from Qld BDM.
Son # 2 - Edward Thomas b. 1895 (Ravenswood), d. 1954 (Ayr). Info QLD BDM. Edward (Ted) served in the 11th Light Horse.
There was a third son b 1904 who only lived 4 months but it is thought that this child was his eldest daughters not his.
If you know Herman's date of death you should be able to buy his death cert. Have just got around to affording his marriage cert. This is next on the list.
Have you googled Dunwich Benevolent Asylum? There's a fair bit of information about it. Quite interesting. Yes, and yes it is very interesting.
Do you know when Herman's wife Elizabeth died? Perhaps she left a will? If you can give me a date and place I will look for you. Elizabeth Caroline RICHTER (nee Roberts) died 9/10/1913 in Ayr, Nth Qld. Was buried in the Ayr Cemetery – grave # 233 – as Richter, contrary to what I told you about her signing my grandmothers marriage cert as Roberts. Leads me to believe that she and Herman were not divorced but one never knows with my family!! Don't know about the will. Sorry.
Looking forward to finding more about Herman! You and me both!!
Can't thank you enough for your help in this.
Pegasuss,
Thanks for this. Will give it a go.
Regards to you both
Jan
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Thanks for the info Jan - I'll see if I can find any wills or intestacies.
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Went back to Australian National Archives site.
Herman Carl Richter born Redsburg Germany age 27 in 1915 enlisted 2 Aug.1915 and discharged 16th Aug.1915- reason for discharge- Enemy Nationality (had said on enlistment form that he was naturalised). The reason I'd mentioned him before was that I thought he might have been related.
However, did find Robert Murray Richter, service #QX21561, born 11 Oct.1920 Ayr Qld, enlisted (WWII) Brisbane.
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However, did find Robert Murray Richter, service #QX21561, born 11 Oct.1920 Ayr Qld, enlisted (WWII) Brisbane.
:D
Hello aghadowey
Thank you so much for this. He should be one of mine you would think but have to investigate further. Thank you so much for your help.
Will get back to you later.
Regards
Jan
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Hi Jan,
I reckon all the Richters I found in the Qld BMD's are yours (only half joking). There are quite a lot of them though!
Righty ho, here goes:
from the Assisted Immigration book 1848 - May 1884
RICHTER
Hermann age 9 (I think this might be your Herman)
Johann 50
Louise 11
Pauline 9
Wilhelm 13
Gustav 3
Ernst 40 (I think this might be his father)
Ernst 6
Caroline 39 (I think this might be his mother)
Carl 5
Anna 46
Anna 8
Auguste 16 (female)
all on the ship Susanne Godeffroy
arr Brisbane 6 Sept 1865
IMM/113 p 62 Z 1957
(the arrival date and reference information appears to be incorrect as I could not find this family or this ship on this film).
However there IS a Passenger List Book for the ship Susanne Godeffroy which departed Hamburg 6 May 1865 and arrived Brisbane 8 September 1865, and your family are listed on there too.
In the Passenger book is also listed where they were from. All were from Bernau Prussia as you thought, except for Johann age 50, Anna aged 46 and Anna aged 8. They were from Weddingstedt, Holstein. Now with all those Richters on the same ship at the same time, it looks like two related families.
I had a look for Herman's death and found that he died 15 Oct 1824 and his parents are Ernest Richter and Caroline Koch.
In the Dunwich Asylum book I'm afraid there was very little information. Two films were listed by his name - I looked at both of them, but they gave little information either. Unfortunately there was no date or reason for admission. This is all I found in their register of deaths:
Year no: 133
Register no: 88/24
Age: 69
Date of Death: 15-10-24
Cause of Death: Senility
No of grave: 680
I did not find a will for Herman or Elizabeth. I found an intestacy on film for Anna Auguste Richter (maiden name Wisseman) d 31-10-1914 which gave very little info except that she had no children.
I found another intestacy on film for George Richter, "selector", late of North Rockhampton, died intestate, lawful eldest son George Ernest Richter, another son John, married daughter Maria Magdelina Werner.
As I said there are many Richters on the BMD fiche. I don't know if you already have the following:
Elizabeth Caroline Richter
d 9-10-1913
father: Robert Roberts
mother: Emma Campton
Hermann Charles Ernest Richter married Elizabeth Caroline Roberts 3-3-1884
Children born to Hermann and Elizabeth:
Elizabeth Jane 10-9-1890
Margaret Annie 4-2-1893
William George 2-6-1898
Edward Thomas 4-8-1895
Emma Caroline Margaret 15-8-1884
Louise Pauline Augusta born 6-12-1886 died 26-3-1887
Robert Gustave 26-6-1888
I also found this and wondered if this may be the death of Herman's father Ernst?
Ernst Wilhelm Richter
father: Johann Friedrich
mother: Johanne Christine Adler
After I got home I had a thought - I wonder if Herman can be traced through the electral rolls to give an idea when he went to the Asylum? I think I need to know his address for that though - or a suburb at least.
Let me know if you need more lookups - I'm going away soon but would be happy to help again when I return.
All the best.
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Ruskie
You wonderful, generous person. Spending all this time on my lot!! I appreciate it more than you know. Living in NSW, it's hard for us Queenslanders to get info on our ancestors easily.
Have not cross checked all you sent but yes, I'd say most of these Richters are my family, most particularly
Elizabeth Caroline Richter (my g grandmother)
d 9-10-1913
father: Robert Roberts
mother: Emma Campton
Hermann Charles Ernest Richter (my g grandfather)married Elizabeth Caroline Roberts 3-3-1884
Children born to Hermann and Elizabeth:
Elizabeth Jane 10-9-1890
Margaret Annie 4-2-1893 (my grandmother)
William George 2-6-1898
Edward Thomas 4-8-1895
Emma Caroline Margaret 15-8-1884
Louise Pauline Augusta born 6-12-1886 died 26-3-1887
Robert Gustave 26-6-1888
Don't know if I told you but do have a second cousin who has all this info and she refused to share. Pity she is not like you guys on this forum.
Once again, thank you for all you did. Will follow up your clues later when I have the time. Really must leave FH and do another assignment. One more to go before I graduate but that's another story.
Whereevery you're going have a great time and get in touch when you get back.
Regards and best wishes
Jan
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You're welcome Jan. If you manage to narrow down where the family lived I'll be happy to check the electoral rolls next month some time or whenever you get back to FH. It was a bit disappointing not to find anything about Herman's admission to Dunwich.
All Herman and Elizabeth's kids went on to marry and have kids, so lots to chase up!
Your cousin does sound a real meany.
Good luck with your assignment/s.
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Hi Jan
Hopefully, I have tagged on to the correct link. I am a descendant of Ernst and Caroline Richter. Ernst (Jnr) is my great-grandfather and brother of Hermann. I have some information that may be useful to you as to where Ernst (Snr) lived, worshipped and is buried. Ernst (Snr), Ernst (Jnr), and Wilhelm (another son) are buried in the same place. I would love to hear from you.
Regards
Bethania
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Dear Jan
I am related to Hermann Richter (your ancestor). My grandfather's father was Ernst Richter (Hermann's younger brother). I have been trying to contact relatives of that line of Richter's for some time without any luck. Would love to hear from you if you so desire. My email address is (*).
Thanks
Jean
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Welcome to rootschat Jean. :)
Jan hasn't been online since June last year but you can send her a personal message (PM). Click on her name and you'll be directed to the page to do this.
(You're not allowed to put your personal email address on rootschat ;))
It's wonderful that you've found a new cousin. Please pop back to fill us in on any new details about this interesting family. ;D
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Hi Ruskie
Thanks for your help and advice. As you can see, I am new at this.
Bethania
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Hi Jan
Ruskie has helped me get in touch with you. My great grandfather, Ernst Richter is Hermann's younger brother. I have been trying to get in touch with descendants of Ernst's SNR (my great, great grandfather) for some time with limited success. I would love to hear from you if you so wish. Perhaps we can put the jigsaw puzzle together. Ernst Snr, and Ernst Jnr and Wilhelm (Hermann's brothers) are buried at Bethania, Queensland. As for the rest of the siblings, I have limited history and would be wonderful to fill in the gaps. Obviously, the siblings lived in Bethania for a period of time until they married and went their separate ways. Also buried at Bethania Lutheran Church are Hilda and Magdalene Richter. I'm not sure what branch they fit in.
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Jean, I hope you manage to make contact with Jan. Keep in touch. :)
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Hi Ruskie
Thanks for your reply. Could you let me know how to send a personal message to Jan as I am new at this? It is frustrating to know that I have a lot of information that Jan is seeking.
Bethania
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Hi Bethania,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
There is a help-page here for sending PMs
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
or, another possibility is to click on the member's name to reach their profile,
where you can then click on "Send this RootsChatter a personal message."
or, another possibility is to click on the green scroll under the profile information on the left of each reply. This sends you directly to the PM page
http://www.rootschat.com/help/profile.php
Good luck,
Bob