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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Terie on Tuesday 13 March 07 02:39 GMT (UK)
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Researching the surname Burns in Hawick,
William Burns son of Alexander Burns and Agnes Jeffrey,married Agnes Crawford in 1836 at Lilliesleaf and had a tailors business at 30 High St,Hawick,
family living in Hawick from 1841 onward,
children,
Agnes born 1837 married Thomas Robison,1864.
Alexander born 1838,
James born 1841.
Helen born 1845 married John Mackenzie,1863.
Catherine Bunyan Burns born 1846 died 1919.
John born 1849.married Catherine Blackwood Couper 1873.
Margaret born 1851 married Alexander Glen,1883.
William born 1853,
Thomas born 1855 married Jane Bruce,1893,
Walter born 1857,married Isabella Hendry Drummond,1881.
Robert born 1860,married Margaret Clark Ker,1884.
George born 1863,died infancy.
Georgina Jeffrey Burns born 1865.
William Burns died 1887 age 73yrs,
Agnes Burns,ms Crawford died 1891 age 71yrs.
Both at 30 High St,Hawick
I have census entries,
Does anyone have a Burns from Hawick in their family tree?
Amanda.
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Hi i have a burns born minto is that the same place?
gilbert
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Hi Gilbert,
Minto is just a few miles from Hawick,
Walter and Isabella Burns lived at Denholm around 1900 which is very close to Minto,
what were the names you have?
Amanda.
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Hi Amanda william burn dr, rev, of minto till he died 9 dec 1826 & is buried next to the golf couse in the old grave yard, He was born 1745 in northumberland & married margaret ogle in edinburgh on 3 june 1771 his family were ann 1772 all born minto george piercy 1773 margaret 1775 isabella 1776 anna maria 1778 john 1781 robert 1783. Anna maria married my archibald elliot about? there first child was born 1806 in jedburgh.
gilbert
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Hi Amanda,
Just browsing, your query caught my eye.....guess what ????
I believe Alexander and Agnes had another son John,d.1899 age 84. John was married to a Janet Rae. Their son Alexander married Margaret Bell in 1872. They had a son,Thomas Bell Burns in 1880. Thomas married Agnes Maxwell in 1905 and my grandfather Alexander was born in March 1907. I have loads of info, as well as census and certificates.
Regards Hawickborn
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Hi There,
Yes you're correct, Alexander and Agnes Burns had a son John married to Janet Rae, after Janet died John remarried, on the 22nd May 1866 at Victoria Rd,Wilton, to Betsy Swanston,father George Swanston,mother Grace Swanston,ms Burns,both dec.
according to the marriage cert, John Burns and Betsy Swanston were cousins, so at this point I believe Grace Burns and Alexander Burns were siblings, I have been in touch with someone who has researched the Swanston family but unfortunately Grace died before 1855 and there are no records for her.
I have John Burns death as 1889 age 84yrs,not 1899
I have John and Janet Burns living at Ancrum in 1841 and at Wilton in 1851.
There is a Will available for John Burns died 1889,do you have that? from Scotlands People,
Will send you a PM.
Amanda.
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Hi folks
Forgive me for cutting in here, but, I think that your John Burns who I have down as being born 16th Oct 1806, (lilliesleaf) who married Janet Rea bn 4th Jan 1809 (Wilton), was my 3rd Great Grandfather
By my research John and Janet also had a Agnes born 1836 (Lilliesleaf)as well as an Alexander 1841, a Margaret 1839 and a Christian ?
Agnes went on to marry Thomas Rutherford
Let me know if this fits I think it might
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
thanks for your reply,
yes I have Agnes Burns age 5yrs living with John and Janet near Ancrum in 1841, siblings Christian,Margaret and Alexander,
do you have the census entries for Alexander and Nancy/Agnes Burns, in 1841 at Shankendshiels,Cavers, and 1851 at Sunnyside,Cavers?
in the 1851 entry there is a Margaret age 6yrs,grandau,born Wilton,any idea who this is?
Amanda.
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Hi Andrew and Sandra, quick follow up,
I have Alexander Burns died at Whitacres,Cavers June 22nd 1862 age 84yrs,
father John Burns,shepherd,
mother? ms Brown,unable to read her first name,
informant Alexander Burns,son,
his wife Agnes Burns ms Jeffrey died 1867 age 83yrs Cavers Parish, haven't looked at that certificate.
still looking for 2 sons of William and Agnes Burns, John born 1849 and William born 1853,
Amanda.
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I have now found John Burns born 1849 Hawick living in Dunfermline in 1881,a grocer and wine merchant,
he married Catherine Blackwood Couper in 1873 and had at least one son William born approx 1887,
will post on Fife board,
Amanda.
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Terie
I've found a magaret that possibly may be who your looking for
In a grave at Ancrum, see attached pic
It says died aged 73, 13 Oct 1915 he was married to Hugh Harvey and someone called Nellie have a look and see
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
according to the 1881 census, Hugh Harvey was the stationmaster at Belses close to Ancrum,
his wife Margaret Burns gave her birthplace as Innerleithen,
Amanda.
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Hi-I have just come across your forum,and I am a Burns from Hawick(b.1935) being the son of Thomas Bell(b.1907)who was the middle child of nine of Alexander(1879) & Lizzie(Borthwick).He was the grandson of John(1806)who was the son of Alexander(1778) and the grandson of John & Peggy(brown)-no dates.
My informant has named the eldest child of John & Janet as Christina(1834-1892)who married Alex Richardson.
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Hi Mondeo
Welcome to Rootschat
My connection to the Burns is via Agnes Burns, who is my gggrandmother and if I am correct your Christina could be her sister the 'Christian' that myself and 'Terie' have down as, who I have no records of, other than a 1841 census entry, and that gives very little information, such as birth place
I don't know if 'terie' has as she is more up on the Burns than I am, I have been concentrating on the Rutherford side and getting nowhere, and just really getting into Burns's and Rea's. The way I see it is if Agnes is the younger sister of Christian/Christina then she would be the Sister in Law of Thomas Rutherford (blacksmith) of Bonchester Bridge
Please don't tell me she is buried at Wilton and I after two round trips to Hawick and two days searching (got a speeding ticket) I have somehow missed her ;D ::)
I hope it is as this would go back to the mid 1700's
AR
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Hi everybody
My jaw is dropping here....
I have a Christina Burns in my tree b1833/4 Hawick/wilton (depending on census) She married Alexander Richardson b1833 Hawick in 1853 Wilton. Their son John Burns Richardson was my Gt Grandad. I am guessing her father was John Burns as this name was passed on by their son James Murray Richardson to my father John Burns Richardson.
Is there any link here? my fingers are crossed.
I havent done much research in this direction yet, as I am constantly being side tracked up different branches!!!!!!!!
Happy Hunting
Carolyn :)
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Hi Carolyn,great to hear from you,according to Mondeo the eldest child of John and Janet Burns-Christina/Christian married Alexander Richardson, I have found the family on the 1881 Census in Hawick,Christina is recorded as a widow, do you have this info?
Will check my notes to see if I have Christina's death certificate.
bye for now,
Amanda.
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Hi again Carolyn,
I have checked the death cert of Christina Murray Richardson,she died Nov 2nd 1892 age 58yrs,her father was John Burns,gardener,dec,and mother Janet Burns,ms Rae,dec.
informant was her son Andrew Richardson.
Alexander and Christina Richardson had known children,
Janet Richardson married Walter Hill.
Andrew Richardson,
John B Richardson,
Margaret P Richardson,
Walter Hill and Janet Richardson had children Helen,Alexander,Christina and David,may be more.
will keep checking for you,Amanda.
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Hi Amanda
Thanks for your info. It appears to be the same family link up. Brill. I have the 1881 census that has Christina as a widow, running a Greengrocer & Confectioner shop. She is also on the 1891 census as a shop keeper, living at 18 Beaconsfield terrace, hawick, she had her daughter Margaret Richardson b1869 Hawick living with her and two grandsons, named Thomas Foley b1889 Hawick and Alexander Richardson b1884 Hawick, at this point I have no idea who their parents are.
However I have had a little look into Christina's parents, and have got a John Burns married to a Janet, I assumed her surname was Murray, you have her as Rae, However, in the 1851 scots census, John and Janet Burns, with two of thier kids, Margaret and Alexander, had staying with them, a Walter Rae b1821 Wilton (woolen framework knitter) as a brother in law and a Christina Murray b1778 Yarrow, Selkirkshire, pauper (house servant) as his mother in law.
In my branch of the tree, we seem to hand down the family name of John Burns Richardson,James Murray Richardson(my grandad) then John Burns Richardson(my dad), James Murray Richardson(my brother). Have always wondered where the names all started from.
Would it still be the same part of the tree as yours still?
Happy Hunting
Carolyn :)
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Researching the surname Burns in Hawick,
William Burns son of Alexander Burns and Agnes Jeffrey,married Agnes Crawford in 1836 at Lilliesleaf and had a tailors business at 30 High St,Hawick,
family living in Hawick from 1841 onward,
children,
Agnes born 1837 married Thomas Robison,1864.
Alexander born 1838,
James born 1841.
Helen born 1845 married John Mackenzie,1863.
Catherine Bunyan Burns born 1846 died 1919.
John born 1849.married Catherine Blackwood Couper 1873.
Margaret born 1851 married Alexander Glen,1883.
William born 1853,
Thomas born 1855 married Jane Bruce,1893,
Walter born 1857,married Isabella Hendry Drummond,1881.
Robert born 1860,married Margaret Clark Ker,1884.
George born 1863,died infancy.
Georgina Jeffrey Burns born 1865.
William Burns died 1887 age 73yrs,
Agnes Burns,ms Crawford died 1891 age 71yrs.
Both at 30 High St,Hawick
I have census entries,
Does anyone have a Burns from Hawick in their family tree?
Amanda.
This was really exciting to come across as this family tree is my great grandparents. My grandparents were Walter and Isabella Hendry Drummond. He died in 1923 and she died in 1945. They have only two grandchildren left, my sister and me, a male cousin died in May of this year in Canada. It would be interesting to know if there are any other descendants of Walter and Isabella alive apart from my 2 children, a niece and my cousin's son in Canada.
Walter, at one point was a farmer in Denholm and was known locally as 'The Prince of Wales' as he was a snappy dresser.
I have a few family photos.
Apparently the family can be traced back to Sir Walter Scott through the Drummond family.
Thank you for all the dates, these I didn't have.
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Hi Bingy, great to hear from you, exciting that you have relatives in Canada as that is where I live, my connection to the Burns family is through Agnes Crawford who married William Burns at Lilliesleaf in 1836,
I will look through my Burns file and see what else I can send you, which of Walter & Isabella's Burns children are you descended from?
Cheers
Amanda.
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Burns headstone in Wellogate Cemetery, Hawick,Scotland.
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Hi Amanda
My cousin lived in Guelph but sadly I never mer him. He has a widow and a son of about 21 years of age.
His father was Walter Burns, my father was Alexander. They were both sons of Walter and Isabella. I think there were about 13 siblings though not all grew up. One was a doctor who died in Mesopotamia in the first World War from TB. The last one to die was Rober who died in the Isle of Man in about 1973. He was unmarried. I knew none of them.
Good to hear from you, we are obviously some kind of cousin 96 removed!!!
Hi Bingy, great to hear from you, exciting that you have relatives in Canada as that is where I live, my connection to the Burns family is through Agnes Crawford who married William Burns at Lilliesleaf in 1836,
I will look through my Burns file and see what else I can send you, which of Walter & Isabella's Burns children are you descended from?
Cheers
Amanda.
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Hi Bingy,
Guelph is approx 1.5 hours from my home, do you know when Walter came to Canada?
At the moment I have 11 children for Walter and Isabella, could be more, do you have their 1911 Census entry?
Dau, Annie Hamilton Burns born 1882,
Dau, Agnes Crawford Burns born 1883 died 1888,
Son ,William born 1885 died 1887,
Dau, Isabella Hendry Burns born 1887 died infancy,
Son, George Drummond Burns born 1888,died 1891,
Dau, Isabella Hendry Drummond Burns born 1890,married Reginald Hunter 1916,died 1936.
Son, Walter Glendinning Burns born 1893,
Son, John Crawford Burns born 1895 died 1929,
Son Archibald Hamilton Burns born 1898,married Olive Marion Roxburgh,died 1947.
Son Alexander Burns born 1901,
Son Robert Burns born approx 1903
I am not sure which son died WW1, John was a doctor,he died in Aberdeen in Feb 1929,his usual address was in Inverness, the informant was his brother Alexander Burns,
Also in my Hislop tree I have Jessie Hamilton Drummond married to William Hislop of Lilliesleaf, I believe Jessie is a sister of your Isabella, Jessie was a witness at their wedding,
Do you know when the family moved from Denholm Mill?
I have Walter & Isabella's marriage cert if you need it,
yes we are very distant cousins, haven't worked it out yet, there are also Burns descendants in Australia, are you in Scotland?
Amanda.
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Hi Burns cousins
I've been looking into what happened to the siblings of my great-grandfather Alexander Burns born 1879(son of Alexander born 1840 Ancrum).
I have found that his oldest brother John B B and wife died in 1919 (maybe flu?) and wondered what happened to their children. Second brother James and family emigrated to Iowa. Sister Margaret drowned age 4. Can anyone confirm or add to this info? Also I don't know much about his younger brother Thomas B.
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Hi there, will check my notes this week for your branch,
Regards
Amanda.
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Hi Burns cousins
I've been looking into what happened to the siblings of my great-grandfather Alexander Burns born 1879(son of Alexander born 1840 Ancrum).
I have found that his oldest brother John B B and wife died in 1919 (maybe flu?) and wondered what happened to their children. Second brother James and family emigrated to Iowa. Sister Margaret drowned age 4. Can anyone confirm or add to this info? Also I don't know much about his younger brother Thomas B.
Will try to sort all these Burns out;
John B Burns born 1873 married Margaret Swanston 1905,living in Hawick in 1911 with dau Margaret born 1905,& twin boys Alexander and John born 1909, John Burns died Nov 1919,widower of Margaret Swanston, I didn't find a death for Margaret in Hawick,cause of death for John was cancer of neck, informant Thomas B Burns,brother,
more later.
Sandra on this thread is connected to this branch.
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You mentioned brother James going to Iowa,
I didn't find his marriage yet but is this James living in Hawick in 1911 with his wife Betsy,children-Alexander,Lily & Marjorie?
do you know which year he left Hawick?
noticed my mistake, Sandra(Hawickborn) is connected to the branch of Thomas Bell Burns born 1880 married to Agnes Maxwell,they also had a son Alexander born 1907.
you already mentioned Margaret died age 4yrs,
Can you help with the family of Alexander Burns and Lizzie Borthwick,where were they living in 1911,I don't see them in Hawick.
Did you notice earlier in the thread the post from Mondeo who is connected to their son Thomas Bell Burns born 1907,
not sure which of these may be Alexander & Lizzie's children, Alexander born 1900, James Borthwick Burns born 1901, Bessie Bell Burns born 1906, Lizzie Borthwick Burns born 1908, I know their is William Bruce Burns born app 1911,married Jane P Bouglas,
thanks for anything you can add,
Regards,
Amanda.
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Hi, I'm new to this! Here's what I hope may be a useful contribution. Isabella Hendry Drummond Burns was my great aunt. Her brother, George Ovens Drummond of Hawick, was my grandfather. I've been exploring the Drummond sides of my family, looking for longlost cousins, since I think there was some kind of major rift in the Drummonds of Hawick around 1908. George died in a mental institution, and his widow Alexandra took her three boys (including my father James) to London. In my childhood we were never in touch with the Hawick family, so it's good to see that Isabella had children who - if I understand this right - moved to Canada. More information please!!
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Hi ddjohn
I haven't been on this site for a while as I have had other commitments but have found it very useful. There's a smashing girl who knows a lot.
My grandmother was Isabella and was married to Walter Burns. My father, Alexander was their second last child and son. my father died in Sierra Leone in 1949 when I was a baby.
Walter was in the First World War and after moved to Guelph where he married Sadie and they had a son who died in May of last year. He then had a son also named Walter but as far as I know there are no other Burns from this family over there.
If my working outs are right, we should be second cousins??
I will get back to this site as I have so much I want to find out.
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Hi Bingy,
Yes, second cousins we are: you in Canada and I in New Zealand! My researches have got me this far about our common generational siblings:
There were eleven children in our grandparents’ generation, the children of George Drummond (1832-1884) and Annie nee Hamilton (died 1919). George and Annie lived at 3 Sandbed, Hawick, Roxburghshire, Scotland. George was a corn merchant. Two of the children died in early childhood. Of the remaining nine, three were girls: Isabella Hendry (1860-1945), Jessie Hamilton (1866-1916), Annie Hamilton (1874-?), and six were boys: Archibald Hamilton (1868-1915), George Ovens (1870-1908), John William (1872-1899, who died of pneumonia), Robert Thomas (1876-1951), David Ovens (1878-1945), James Scott (1880-1899).
Of these, four produced offspring:
- Isabella Hendry who married Walter Burns and had 11 children
- Archibald Hamilton who married Elizabeth Ekron and had 4 children
- George Ovens who married Alexandra Dodds and had 3 children
- David Ovens who married Marion May Oliver Boyd and had at least 1 child
I think it highly likely that we have more cousins from the Archibald Hamilton Drummond and David Ovens Drummond marriages, and I'm trying to track these. I have more information about the previous Drummond generations, and about the offspring generations, which I am happy to share with you if you are interested.
Anything you can share with me about those cousins back in the UK would interest me very much.
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sorry haven't been on this for a while and can never remember how it works!
Alex and lizzie were in Galashiels in 1911 - that is where willaim bruce was born
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Yes please, I would like census entries. I have at last managed to get time to do research into the Burns and Drummond families again and have been drawing the family tree which takes up so much space as there are so many children at a time and so many with long names!
I find it fascinating how unoriginal they were with names considering that they had so many children and what horrifies me is when a subsequent child is born after the death of a sibling it is given the same name
Many thanks.
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Hi Amanda
I would love a copy of the marriage certificate for my grandparents
I don't know where they moved to from Denholm, possibly Edinburgh as my father went to George Heriot's school there and he must have been there in the 19teens.
I lived in Cumbria in the north of England after moving from Edinburgh but am now in France.
I see that there are relatives in New Zealand and in Utah.
Bingy
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Hi ddjohn
I was wondering how you are getting on with the research.
I have been drawing the family tree from all the info given in these pages so it is beginning to make sense.
I have in the past just looked at my paternal grandfather's side and am now looking at the paternal grandmother's.
we could do with the new generations now. it seems to stop fairly early on in the 1900s. That will be a massive job to try and find our cousins etc.
Good luck.
Bingy.
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Hi Bingy,
I came across the following , which suggests that Walter and Isabella Hendry Burns may have had their challenges! The Edinburgh Gazette of 31 January 1911 includes the following:
“A petition having been presented to the Sheriff of Roxburgh, Berwick and Selkirk at Selkirk, at the instance of the South of Scotland Investment Company Limited. . . for Sequestration of the Estates of Mrs Isabella Hendry Drummond or Burns, wife of and residing with Walter Burns, Farmer, Shawmount, Selkirk, the Sheriff-Substitute of this date granted Warrant for citing the said Mrs Isabella Hendry Drummond or Burns and the said Walter Burns for any interest he may have, to appear in Court on the tenth day next after citation, to show cause why Sequestration of the said Mrs Isabella Hendry Drummond or Burns’ Estates should not be awarded; of which Intimation is hereby given.”
Sequestration means that the Burns farm went bankrupt. How and why, we do not know.
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Thank you so much for this notification. I had no idea. That might explain why the family then lived in Edinburgh and why my father went to school there.
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Finally found Robert Burns, born in Hawick Feb 13th 1824, came to Canada 1843 married Elizabeth Richardson, Robert died 10th Sept 1901 age 77yrs and is buried in Brussels Cemetery, Township of Morris, Huron County, Ontario, Robert was one of the sons of Alexander Burns and Agnes Jaffrey(Jeffrey)
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Hi my father was Alexander Burns born in Hawick in 1930. His father was William Bruce Burns born I'm Galashiels. I know we have Borthwick in our family treem
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Hi my father was Alexander Burns born in Hawick in 1930. His father was William Bruce Burns born I'm Galashiels. I know we have Borthwick in our family treem
Hi Don, thanks for your reply, will get out my notes and see where you fit in, I was just doing a bit more research over the summer.
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My name is Janice Elson nee Burns. Alexander Burns is my father. Don is my husband
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Hi Jan, sorry it's been a busy few months, will take a look this week.
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Hi,
Are any ancestors from the Burns family in Hawick on Gedmatch or 23andme?
My great grandmother was called Jane Ann Burns Gray from Hawick. Her mother was Maggie Gray, who went to Canada or America I believe, then onto New Zealand.
Jane was brought up by her granny and grandad in Hawick.
It was a well kept secret, and no one has known who Jane's father was, and my great aunt who was brought up as a neice never knew either. No one knew where the "Burns" came from in Jane's name, so we think this could be the clue to solving the mystery.
Thanks in advance, I look forward to hearing from anyone with any information.