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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Suz73 on Tuesday 27 March 07 00:00 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Wondering if some one can tell me what happenned to these boys:
Parents: Robert & Elizabeth (maiden name unknown) Topham
John Topham
abt 30 April 1801
Robert Topham
abt 6 August 1805
Samuel Cragg Topham
20 June 1812
Did they marry? When did thet die?
Thanks
Suzanne!
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Hi Suzanne
I have had a bit of a look on the UK Census for your "boys" and found this :-
1841 Census England Lincolnshire Deeping Fen
HO107/606/14/7
TOPHAM
Robert 70 Farmer Born in County
Elizabeth 70 Born in County
Camberwell 25 Born in County
Robert 35 Farmer Born in County
Elizabeth 25 Born in County
John 3 Born in County
William 9mths Born in County
This was a lucky find as it obviously has two generations of the family in the one house - just hope that they are yours. Unfortunately this is the only census that I could find Robert the younger and his family on.
1851 Census England Lincolnshire Spalding
HO107/2096/511/37
London Road
TOPHAM
Robert Head Marr 80 Gentleman Lincoln Mosthroop ??
Mary Wife Marr 32 Lincoln Baston
Samuel Son Unmarr 38 Not in Business Lincoln Deeping
Eliza WALTON Serv Unmarr 20 Housemaid Lincoln Mouton
Looks like Robert sen got married again.
This is a tricky family to trace as they appear and then disappear just as quickly. I will keep looking and hope that they show up again.
Karenlee
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Pretty sure now that the Camberwell should read Samuel - really messy writing on this page.
1841 Census England Lincolnshire Deeping Fen
HO107/617/2/3
TOPHAM
John 35 Farmer Born in County
George LADD 15 Male Servant Not born in County
Elizabeth MADDOX 15 Female Servant Born in County
1851 Census England Lincolnshire Deeping Fen
HO107/2095/774/15
W? of Elloe
TOPHAM
John Head Marr 49 Farmer 220 Acres 6 Labourers Lincoln Deeping Fen
Ann Wife Marr 36 Licoln Spalding
Ann ALLEN Serv Unmarr 18 House Servant Lincoln Spalding
James PINCHBECK Serv Unmarr 17 Farmers Boy Lincoln Spaling Common
1861 shows John and Ann still in Deeping, still no children, but they have a niece Harriet Emma SMITH aged 17, born Norfolk Upwell, with them. John has 219 Acres and employs 3 labourers and 1 boy.
1871 Census England Lincolnshire Deeping St Nicholas
RG10/3325/17/4
Turnpike Road
TOPHAM
John Cragg Head Marr 69 Farmer 219 Acres Employing 5 Men Lincoln Deeping Fen
Mary Ann Wife Marr 55 Lincon Spalding
Elizabeth FREEMAN Sister in Law Wid 54 Lincoln Spalding
Harriet Emma SIMTH Niece Unmarr 24 Norfolk Upwell
Mary MELLON Nurse Wid 60 Rutland Carlby
Sarah E BOOTHBY Serv Unmarr 20 Gen Serv Lincoln Pinchbeck
Cassandra MERRIKIN Sister in Law Marr 39 Lincoln Spalding
1881 Census England Lincolnshire Spalding
RG11/3204/79/19
19 London Road
TOPHAM
John Cragg Head Wid 80 Retired Farmer Lincoln Deeping Fen
Harriet Emma SMITH Niece Unmarr 36 Norfolk Upwell
Martha BROWN Serv Unmarr 21 Gen Serv Lincoln Deeping Fen
1891 Census Lincolnshire Spalding
RG12/2563/58/9
19 London Road
TOPHAM
John Cragg Head Wid 88 Retired Farmer Lincoln Deeping Fen
Harriet Emma SMITH Niece Unmarr 43 Housekeeper Norfolk Upwell
Fanny Elizabeth BATTERTON Serv Unmarr 21 Gen Servant Lincoln Cowbit
Karenlee
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Hi Karenlee,
You have filled in some blanks for me, and for that I thank you very much!!
Samuel just doesn't want to be found! (I wonder what happened to him???)
Robert Snr is a sneeky old buggar! ( adds a but of fun to the family tree though)
Thanks again for the effort
Suzanne!!!
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Robert Snr is a sneeky old buggar! ( adds a but of fun to the family tree though)
He didn't quite sneak into the 1861 census - buried 26 July 1860 aged 96 (Deeping St Nicholas)
Re his birthplace ... the IGI has a Robert TOPHAM bap 1770 Saleby ... about a mile from Saleby is Thoresthorpe. The image looks like Thosthorp to me.
http://tinyurl.com/29b653
John Cragg TOPHAM buried at DStN 3 Nov 1898 age 97
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Hi Geoff E,
Poor Robert Snr having a very young wife didn't see him sneaking into 1861!!
Thank you for that information!!!
Samuel Cragg still doesn't want to be found!!!
Just wish I knew where he was hiding!
Suzanne!!
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This would seem to be old Robert's marriage (and possibly reinforces the 1770 baptism theory)
27 Jan 1849 at Spalding
Robert TOPHAM (son of Robert) to Mary Horden HILL (dau of William)
Looks like they may not have been blessed with the gift of children
1861
London Rd, Spalding
Mary TOPHAM (wid) 43 Fundholder, Baston
Ann MAUGHAM 12 House Serv, Spalding
Possible burial of first wife ... 2 July 1845 Spalding.
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Thanks Geoff E!!!
Old Robert had one daughter & three sons already!!
At 79 I think he be a bit past being Daddy material!!
Suz!!!
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Sorry, Elizabeth was aged 72.
I don't know who this was but I'll give him anyway
1861
37 Bartholomew St, Exeter, Devon
John Saml TOPHAM 30 Drug Comml Traveller, Deeping
Lucy 34 Islington
Mary Eliza HALL (niece) 8 Stamford
Caroline E (niece) 5 Stamford
Elizabeth NORMAN 29 Dom Serv, Devon
EDIT: IGI has him as son of Sam and Liz.
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Haven't come across him!! Have no idea who he is either!! ???
Suz!!
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Hi Suzanne,
I've just come across this thread about the Tophams of Deeping and I think I can add a little to it.
The Robert Topham born in 1805 married Elizabeth Burbidge 18 January 1837 at Market Deeping. They had 4 children, 2 of whom lived to adulthood (John Robert Topham and Robert William King Topham). The family manage to appear twice on the 1841 census, once with Robert's Dad in Deeping Fen and once at Algarkirk (where I think they were actually living). Robert died at Algarkirk (died 24 August 1844, buried there 27 August). Elizabeth died in 1848.
The two surviving children were brought up by their Great Uncle and Aunt James and Elizabeth Haynes at Wensor Castle Farm in Deeping Fen.
John Robert Topham changed his name to John Robert Topham Haynes following his uncle's death (as a condition of the will). His children were James Topham Haynes, Elizabeth Ann Haynes and John Topham Haynes and appear in the will of John Cragg Topham.
Robert William King Topham had 16 children, one of whom was my Great Grandmother Lizzie. Some of these children were also beneficiaries of the will of John Cragg Topham.
I have dates for most of these people if you wish, but it will make a very long message!
I've been searching for ages for old Robert's first marriage and for his baptism. I've noticed that baptism in Saleby in 1770 but I don't know if that's definitely him?
Hope this is helpful,
Peter
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A visit to www.old-maps.co.uk will show that the parish was called Saleby with Thoresthorpe (and that the church was at Saleby). I figure from that that someone born in Thoresthorpe would be bap at Saleby. Genuki describes Thoresthorpe as a "hamlet in Saleby" http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/parishes.html
I have tried to attach below the birthplace of Robert TOPHAM as given in 1851 - Thosthrorp?
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Hi Geoff E,
Thanks very much.
It certainly does look like Thosthrop. I've looked at this entry a few times and never been sure what it said. I did think it might be Northorp (near Bourne), but now I follow your spelling I think you must have it. I've certainly not found any other good candidates for this Robert's baptism. There seem to have been a few Tophams around the Saleby area in the 1700s - I think I'd like to research them a bit more. It'd be really nice to find a record of Robert's first marriage particularly.
Is this intriguing fellow in your family tree as well?
Many thanks,
Peter
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The 1770 Saleby bap may be from the Robert Topham - Elizabeth Foster marriage at Alford 26/9/1765....the only one in Calcewaithe deanery that fits...and Thoresthorpe is close to Alford.
There's nothing in Calcewaithe or Bolinbroke deaneries for the c 1740 mar of Robert and Avarillida.
John
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Hi Peter
Robert Topham 1770 - July 1860 & Elizabeth 1771 -2 July 1845 daughter
Bridget Topham Born Sept 1799
is my Great *3 Grandmother, the downside is her daughter Emma Dales just had to go and marry a Smith.
But more information and dates on the Tophams would be fantastic!!
Do you know if there is a connection with the Aintree Tophams???
Thanks to the help from the wonderful people on Rootschat this is what Ive managed to piece together -
Robert Topham born 1770 Saleby (Thoresthorpe) - buried 26/7/1860 D St N Married Elizabeth born 1771 - died 2/7/1845 Spalding
Children
Bridget Topham born abt 18/9/1799 D St J Married Charles Dales born abt 1826 South Thoresby, Lincoln Had 7 children
John Cragg Topham born abt 30/4/1801 D St J - 30/10/1898 Married (1851 census) Anne (Mary Ann) Topham born abt 12/7/1801
Your Robert Topham 6/8/1805
Samuel Cragg Topham 20/6/1812
Robert Topham 1770 married again 27/1/1849 Spalding Mary Horden Hill born abt 1818 Lincoln Baston
Suzanne
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Hi,
Thanks JohninAus for that likely marriage.
Suzanne,
Sorry I've never heard of any connection with Aintree.
The main thing I have to add about Robert (the one who died in 1860) is that he did leave a will which is of some interest. I haven't got a copy, but I took notes from it some years ago - I really should go back to Lincoln Archives and get a copy, as I looked at it when I was first starting out researching family history and wouldn't now be too confident of the accuracy of my note taking.
The will was made 11 September 1855 and he was living in the parish of St Lawrence Island, Jersey. By the time he made a codicil on 29 August 1859 however he was back living at London Rd., Spalding. The beneficiaries were his wife Mary, son John, daughter Bridget and the children of Bridget and his, by now deceased son Robert. Samuel isn't mentioned (perhaps he died without children by this time?). The curious thing is that the legacies suggest a reasonably wealthy man and seem to amount to much more than the £100 the estate was assessed at when proved at Lincoln on 11 September 1860. There is mention of £300 placed "without bond or acknowledgement in the hands of James Grant of Baston for the purpose of investment in my name" and also title deeds and documents in the care of this James Grant.
I don't know if there is a connection, but in a letter of 1867 written to Robert W K Topham (one of the potential beneficiaries) there is mention of a case in chancery, with the prospect of a payout.
Do you (or anyone) know whether or not an estate could end up in chancery even after probate had been granted?
Moving on to Robert (1805-44) the relevant dates for the family are -
Robert Topham - I think you have these earlier in the thread - he is described in his will and a directory as a farmer. Note the family appear twice on the 1841 census - in Deeping Fen with Robert's father, as noted earlier, but in Algarkirk as well!
married Elizabeth Burbidge (spinster of Deeping Fen)
Children
John Robert bp 10/7/1838 Spalding
William King bp 6/12/1840 Algarkirk bu 1/5/1843 Algarkirk
Charles bp 26/2/1843 Algarkirk bu 17/3/1843 Algarkirk
Robert William King bp 22/9/1844 Algarkirk
More about the two children who lived:
John Robert Topham
married 25/10/1864 Market Deeping to Louisa Perkins spinster of Market Deeping
They had 3 children Elizabeth Ann b.11/8/1865, John Robert b.29/10/1867 and James Topham b. circa 1869. I think that by the time James was born the surname had been changed from Topham to Haynes in accordance with the will of James Haynes.
Both parents died young.
Louisa died in an accident 19/2/1870, and John Robert was buried 24/8/1871 (Market Deeping). They lived at Wensor Castle Farm in Deeping Fen.
Robert William King Topham
married 25/9/1865 at the Congregational Chapel, Peterborough to Isabella West (according to oral family history - he married the cook and ran away to America).
They had the following children - William James (b.11/6/1866 Sugartown, New York State), Albert (b 3/1/1869 Market Deeping), Lizzie (b.28/12/1870 bp29/1/1871), John Robert (b.4/12/1872 bp. 25/12/1872) George Henry (b.11/10/1874 bp.6/11/1874)(this is the child blind from birth refered to in John Cragg Topham's will), Arthur Edward (b.25/10/1876), Sarah Ann (b.29/5/1878), Amy (b.6/9/1879). Robert (b.2/7/1881), Matthew (b.11/3/1883), Isabella(b.6/6/1884), Herbert (b.13/11/1885), Annie (b.27/9/1887). The preceding birthdates were taken from a family bible. All the children except the first two were born at Deeping St James. Isabella died 28/10/1889 at Deeping St James. Robert then remarried to Susanna Elizabeth Toynton 26/12/1890 at Deeping St James. They had 3 children - Harold, Lily and Percy Toynton (b.2/4/1893). Susanna died 16/5/1895 at Deeping St James. Robert died 17/5/1910 at Helpston buried 21/5/1910 at Deeping St James.
OK so this post seems to have dragged on a bit - is there a length limit on these things? Maybe I should have done these dates as an attachment.
Anyway - hope this is of some interest.
By the way, going back to Bridget - her son Charles emigrated to the USA in 1850 and had family there. I have a little more on this if you want.
Peter
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Hi,
Peter you are amazing!!!
Thank you so much for the family history, it is so interesting to read.
Further information would be great.
The info I have on Bridget and family:
Bridget bpt ?18/9/1799 married Charles Dales bpt 12/7/1801 South Thoresby
Children
Charles born abt 1826
Robert b abt 1828
Frances b abt 1831
Elizabeth b abt 1832
Mary b abt 1833
George b abt 1839
Emma b abt 1840 (dates worked out from census)
Emma Dales 1840 Married Dec 1863 Camberwell, London Thomas Smith 4/10/1839 Longbenton, Northumberland
(Thomas is the Captain Thomas Smith in J C Tophams will. Thomas Smith No: 8544 was with the Merchant Navy and his last discharge record is dated 1877 ( not sure of the month). We don't have a date for his death as he died at sea (Boltic??) and being in Australia can't get to Kew to find records.)
Children
Bridget Emily Topham Smith born 12/10/1864 18 Queens Terrace, Poplar, Middbury
Thomas Edgar Topham Smith b 9/3/1866 2 James Place Rotherhithe Surry
My Greatgrand father:
John Henry Dixon Smith b 14/5/1896 address as above - 1956 Culcairn, NSW Australia address as above married 1900 Parkvale, Illabo NSW,Aust Catherine Harris
Margaret Anne Topham Smith 27/1/1873 64 Adam Street, Rotherhithe died March 1873
Percy Topham Smith 31/1/1876 28 Swaton Road, Bronley died abt 1880
There are other Smiths in J C Tophams will and a niece that pops up in census but haven't found any connection yet!
Thanks again
Suz!!!
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Hi Suzanne,
Thank you for all that information on the Smiths.
I've been looking again at my copy of John Cragg Topham's will.
There seem to be three separate sets of Smiths!
There is your Thomas and Emma.
Then there is Emma Smith, otherwise called Harriet Emma Smith - "the niece of my late wife" and her brother Edward or Edwin Willoughby Smith. This is surely the Harriet Emma Smith shown living with John in the censuses from 1861 onwards.
Thirdly there is William Topham Smith, one of the executors and various of his family. I was interested enough in William to get a copy of his birth certificate some time ago - he was born 12/9/1850 in Deeping Fen the son of William Smith, farmer and Lucy, formerly Topham. I haven't managed to establish what relationship Lucy was to John. I'm not sure if I've ever looked for a baptism for her.
Do you know anything about Elizabeth the wife of William Allen and Mary Jane the wife of William Bryan, mentioned in the will? I'm guessing that Elizabeth and Mary Jane are two of Bridget Dales' daughters?
It's fascinating to see how the will got altered over the years - the last codicils are just before he died. Various people seem to have gone in and out of favour!
I think I may have a few more bits and pieces of interest, but my research notes are always very disorganised.
Best wishes,
Peter
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Hi Peter
Mary may be Bridgets Daughter b abt 1833
Elizabeth is Bridgets Daughter.
Sorry Attachments are out of order! should be rec 1-3.
This is all the info I have on Dales / Allen marriage!
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Peter
Talking about J C Topham's Will didn't know if you had a copy of this:
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Having trouble with this half!!
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John Cragg Topham born abt 30/4/1801 D St J - 30/10/1898 Married 1815 Anne (Mary Ann) Topham born abt 12/7/1801
I'm not sure where the 1815 came from ???
A John TOPHAM married a Mary Ann HINDS 3 Aug 1828 at Alford (2 miles from Saleby)
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:-[ Oops!!! :-[
Was meant to read "John Cragg Topham born abt 30/4/1801 D St J - 30/10/1898 Married (1851 census) Anne (Mary Ann) Topham born abt 12/7/1801"
My mistake, thanks for pointing it out!
Thanks also for "A John TOPHAM married a Mary Ann HINDS 3 Aug 1828 at Alford (2 miles from Saleby)" information and the rest of the work you have done on this, you have helped fill in a lot of blanks!!
Suzanne!!
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Sorry - the Alford marriage was 1829 :-[
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Hi,
Thanks Suzanne, all the information on the Allen family was new to me. Also I'd never seen that document. I just have a copy of the will (plus a couple of letters written to my Great Grandmother about her legacy from the lawyer.)
Thanks Geoff for finding that marriage. I have another candidate, which I had thought was possible. I've only seen it in Lincolnshire marriage indexes, I've not been to the original record but a John Topham married a Willoughby at Spalding in 1834. I cant seem to find my original notes at the moment which would tell me if I cross checked for her first name. One of John's wife's relatives mentioned in the will has Willoughby as a middle name, though I suppose that could just be coincidence.
Best wishes,
Peter
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HI,I just joined.
I knew the topham smith who went to live in culcairn in Australia very well as a child.
I am a grandson of Bridget Emily Topham Smith
She Married Rev.Charles William Mowson born 21/8/1864 at Moulton near Lincolnshire who was a missionary at Potchesfroom Sth Africa in 1893 they had three sons and four daughters in Sth Africa,they returned to England in 1904 Emily died in Ludlow Shropshire on 24/8/1920 aged 55 any one wishing further information let me know.
Happy to help... My great Aunt Adeline one of Emily's daughters told me about her relative Squire Topham as she referred to him who owned or was associated with Aintree in the 1800s.
I'd love to know more thanks
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Hi sorry its been so long since I have been on here!! Thomas Dixon Smith and Emma Dales are my Great *3 grandparents! I have loads of Information on the family tree but cant find death dates for either one of them. Would love to share more information with you>
Suzanne!!
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Its a while since I visited, but thought you might be interested in this snippet if its not past its sell-by date:
Researching for my book about Deeping St Nicholas, I discovered that James Haynes, of Wensor Farm, and who figures in the Topham story, donated some of his farmland in Littleworth Drove, Deeping St Nicholas, as the site for a new Methodist chapel built in 1867. The chapel was rebuilt in 1922, so the original is no longer.
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Hello andy14976 I did know about this, though I don't think he was a methodist himself. Am I right in thinking the chapel has been sold recently? I'm also interested interested in other places in Deeping Fen where Haynes and Topham family members lived and farmed. I'm interested to hear more about your book. Peter
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Hi!
Thank you for your reply.
I think the chapel has been sold, but I don't know when. I live 37 miles from Hop Pole, so can't visit often. My last visit to there was 17 April, when I photographed the chapel; there were no estate agent signs outside.
Thank you also for your interest in my book, which is nearly finished. It will certainly be available as a CD. I will have to tout my manuscript around a bit to see if any publisher will accept it, as I can't spare the upfront cash to get a printed version. (I did this for my first book about family pubs in South Holland and it was a significant financial loss.) Please e-mail me direct on and I will put you on my "interested" list. (You'd be the third, so the big time beckons I don't think!!)
Might you be interested in the first book? You can see a picture of it if you google https://www.southhollandlife.com/2017/04/new-book-pubs-south-holland-elsewhere/
With kind regards
Andy