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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Ceeoh on Wednesday 04 April 07 21:40 BST (UK)
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I have recently received an 1871 census image which shows my g-grandparents in Lower Feversham Street Middlesbrough had lodgers who were "perfoming singers".
Does anyone know of a music hall or theatre in that era? Is there any way of finding old programmes or records (written) of performers?
Ceeoh
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Could well be the Empire Theatre in Corporation Road - still exists as a night club I think; I imagine the Middlesbrough Archives service has programmes and so forth
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Thanks RuthieB, yes I think the Empire does still exist, sadly no longer a theatre, however, I have received today from a relative researching the same family, copy of part of an old map of Middlesbrough, showing the Oxford Music Hall in Lower Feversham Street - literally next door to our ancestors. New one on me, never knew there was a music hall in Old Middlesbrough.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try the archive for programmes.
Regards
Ceeoh
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Hi Ceeoh,
There was also a Prince of Wales Music Hall in Middlesbrough
in 1876:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ej/
Kind regards,
Pels
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Hi Pels
Very many thanks - what a great site. Led me off in all directions to various places visited in the past.
I wonder where the Prince of Wales Music Hall was? Must also have been in Old Middlesbrough somewhere.
From an entry on the census this has started me on a new road altogether.
Definitely deserves a query at Teesside Archive!
Regards
Ceeoh
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Hi
Just had a quick look and found this
George Hearse. Came to Middlesbrough from South Wales in 1850 to work at Bolckow and Vaughan. Built a pub, became landlord and then later owned The Prince of Wales Music Hall and several farms. He was landlord owner of 17 pubs including the Cannon, Palmerston and Gladstone. He died in 1909
I think it may have been in Lord Street the music hall? :-\
Jane
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Many thanks Jane, old time music hall and public houses - conjures quite a picture in one's mind.
There were at one time, 61 public houses in old Middlesbrough. Bridge Street West/East to the river.
Will have a look on the map for Lord Street, the Prince of Wales Music Hall may be shown.
Regards
Ceeoh
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The Oxford Palace of Vaireites was in Rostock Terrace, Lower Feversham Street, St. Hilda's, Middlesbrough. The owner was Cllr Richard Weighell a Mayor of the town and also breeder of racehorses.
Images of the music hall outside and inside are on a display panel at the Dorman Museum in Middlesbrough. want to know any more drop me a line
Ian
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Hi Ian
Very many thanks for extra info. You are the first person who has been able to pinpoint Rostock Terrace for me!!
The Gendle side of the family (and I think the Hall family) lived in Lower East Street, Feversham Street, Lower Feversham Street, and Rostock Terrace and until now no-one could tell me where Rostock Terrace was. It doesn't appear on any maps I have and M'bro Archive couldn't help.
I wonder if the Dorman Museum would have any pictures from the display panel (music hall images)?
My g-granparents Edward and Margaret (nee Hall) Gendle had the "performing singers" lodging with them 1871.
Delighted to have your mail. Many thanks
Margaret
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Hi Ian
Should have asked you - do you know if the Dorman Museum has an e mail and/or website? I'm not in the U.K. so cannot go there myself.
Regards
Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
I think the Oxford eventually became the Joe Walton' boys club after it moved from the original two cottages. (Prior to general demolition of the area and relocation of the remaining residents.)
One of my ancestors had a lodging house at number 44 Lower Feversham Street (1881) She took in 'Theatricals' according to my Grandmother.
I have a photo somewhere in my collection of the Oxford building. I will look it up.
Try "Googling" "Live search maps" (Microsoft) One of the original buildings seems to remain, although I am not sure which one it is.
George
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Hi George
That's very interesting - something I didn't know, although I knew about the Joe Walton's Boys Club.
Unfortunately the 1871 doesn't give the number in Lower Feversham Street where the Gendle family lived
Thanks for the tip "Live search maps", last time I visited "old" Middlesbrough the place was in ruins, just a plaque where St Hilda's had been with the inscription scratched off - by vandals no doubt!
If Ian (above) is still following this thread - after I replied to you I googled the Dorman Musem and found some very interesting information and contact details.
Thanks George, love to see the picture if you still have it.
Many thanks for your input
Regards
Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
Godfrey map 1913 shows The Oxford opposite the end of Tyne St.
The surviving building on Live search map is most likely the Oxford with a newer facade. There was no building of that size in the near vacinity..
Here is the photo anyway.
George
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Fantastic - many thanks George.
Regards
Margaret
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Dorman has a website
www.dormanmuseum.co.uk
If you email the museum from the website and mark the e-mail for my attention I can send the images of the exterior and interior to you, I will also try and add low resolution versions here next week,
regards,
Ian Stubbs
Assistant Curator
Dorman Museum
Middlesbrough
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Many thanks Ian, will contact you.
Margaret
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Hi
Just had a quick look and found this
George Hearse. Came to Middlesbrough from South Wales in 1850 to work at Bolckow and Vaughan. Built a pub, became landlord and then later owned The Prince of Wales Music Hall and several farms. He was landlord owner of 17 pubs including the Cannon, Palmerston and Gladstone. He died in 1909
I think it may have been in Lord Street the music hall? :-\
Jane
I have just found this site so apologies for this rather late reply. I am a relative of George Hearse and am keen to find more about him, namely details of the pubs he had of the 17 or so mentioned. I have traced his family so am well up of them all, but would like info on his business. Any ideas
SS
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Hello George
Your mail was addressed to Jane, not sure if she will still be following this thread.
I became interested in the music halls simply because my great grandparents had "singing performers" lodging with them, and the reply re George Hearse was pertinent to my query.
Sorry I don't know anything about George Hearse, but (somewhere) I have a list of the public houses in old Middlesbrough - would this be of interest to you?
Regards
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Hi
Coming in late on this chat, however my ancestor Matthew Hall (Merry Matt Hall) was born in Batley 1851c but came to Middlesbrough to live as a child with the rest of the family. I know he ended up as a stage manager at Lincoln Theatre but also did live comic acts in the North including Middlesbrough. Any information on this man would be appreciated.
John Hall
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I've just read this thread as it related to Middlesbrough, I'd just like to say how very kind I think Ian Stubbs has been to join the site specifically to help out on this query. Nice one Bolckow, and I love the monicker!
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Hi, yes Ian's help is most appreciated - I am in the U.K. at present and hope to visit the museum before the end of May :)
Regards
Margaret
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You should let us know when you are going to be in Middlesbrough and we could meet you for lunch or dinner or coffee, there are quite a few of us in the are
Have a great time
Jane
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Hi Jane
That would be great. Am in the country until end of May so not sure yet when I will be travelling north, will certainly be in touch. Probably be staying in Guisborough or Redcar so Middlesbrough not a problem for a visit to the Dorman Museum and a cuppa.
Regards
Margaret
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Hello, did anyone receive my message re Middlesbrough visit?
Regards
Ceeoh
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Hi
Coming in late on this chat, however my ancestor Matthew Hall (Merry Matt Hall) was born in Batley 1851c but came to Middlesbrough to live as a child with the rest of the family. I know he ended up as a stage manager at Lincoln Theatre but also did live comic acts in the North including Middlesbrough. Any information on this man would be appreciated.
John Hall
John,
Coming in even later on this thread, but I am also descended from Matthew Hall, through his youngest daughter Mabel. I've been a bit nosy at some of your other posts, and it seems you've got quite a bit further back than me on his line. Perhaps we could swap notes? Coincidentally after all the moving around my family are now based in Wakefield, so I might be able to help with some local knowledge too!
Look forward to hearing from you,
Lauren
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Hello Lauren
Nice to hear from you.
I have sent you a personal message
Hope we can swap notes
John Hall
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John, it's not a good idea to put your email address on the forum. The Mods usually point this out, must not have spotted it yet. Better to send it on a PM.
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I've asked one of the mods to remove it, in case John isn't quite sure how to.
Pels.
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Hi John,
Thanks for your message. I will get back to you shortly. i actually found your post on here by googling, and i did have a log in some time ago but I'd forgotten what email I'd used etc, so then I had to rejoin, so I'm still 1 post short before I'm allowed to send a message!
Lauren!
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Hi All
I am new to Roots so apologies if I haven't posted correctly.
I am desperately trying to find some information on my great grandparents, specifically my great grandmother whose name was Elizabeth Yeadon (nee Jackson). She and my great grandfather were both Music Hall Artistes in the early 1900's and as they lived in Middlesborough I assume this is where they performed. According to my grandmothers birth certificate they were performing in 1915 (the year my grandmother was born) but I am not sure how long their careers spanned - into the 20's at least I think). My grandfather whose real name was James Arthur Yeadon went under the stage name of Frank Mckay or McKye so my mother recalls and we think was a comedian. My great grandmothers stage name is Lila.... but we are unsure of the surname - we think she was a singer but unsure. I have seen on the National Archives website that there is a photo of a music hall artiste called Lila Dolores held at the Greater Manchester County Record Office and wonder if there is any link. I live in Worcestershire so unless I could go there and get a copy of the photo to show to my mother (to see if she recognises her) I dont know how I could solve this puzzle. It seems a long way to go for such a long shot.
I am fascinated by my great grandparents rather colourful life in the music hall and would be so grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction of how I could start piecing together the clues. I would love to be able to find out more about them, especially about my great grandmother as she was quite a lady! So many mysteries I dont know where to start. :-)
Any help would be gratefully received!
:D
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Hello
I think that this census entry probably shows the lady who married Arthur James Yeadon in the third quarter of 1911 ....
1901
Middlesbrough RG13/4585 Folio 104 Page 42
Matthew Jackson Head S 33 Ironstone Miner (Under Ground) Yorks Guisbro
Isabella England Housekeeper M 29 Gen Serv (Domestic) Yorks Guisbro
Elizabeth M Jackson Daur 6 Yorks Guisbro
Henrietta England Daur 4 Yorks Guisbro
Lilian Jackson England Daur 2 Yorks Guisbro
Cottage Back of High Street, Normanby
posteria
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Thank you so much for the info - I hadn't been able to find her in a census so far so that is a great help - she was obviously born slightly later than I had assumed. I have requested a marriage certificate, so slowly piecing together the details. Now all I need to do is try and find out about her music hall career and the reason for her travelling under a different name to Rio de Janeiro with her two children in 1920, when she was suposedly married to James Arthur Yeadon (thanks Posterior - for your kind help with that also!).
Does anyone know how I go about finding Divorce records - I cant seem to find anything on Ancestry for Divorces. I know she remarried in later life but have no idea when she divorced James Arthur Eden.
Another query I have is her son was 'sent' at age 14 (without any family member) to Western Australia in 1927. He sailed on the Vedic with 644 other passengers on 14th october (this I learnt from my mothers cousin who is also researching the Yeadon line. It is unknown why he went on his own - he was so young, maybe he ran away, or was 'sent' but why we dont know. Would a 14 year old boy be able to travel alone? He lost touch with his immediate family until my grandmother (his sister) got the salvation army involved and they tracked him down in Western Australia but his departure remains a mystery. I am unable to view the passenger list of the vedic so I can only assume he travelled alone. If it was in the 1800's I would have assumed he got into some sort of trouble with the law and went on a convict ship but 1927 I believe was too late for this. Any ideas? This line of my family is one mystery after another!
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Hello Sophie
A direct descendant of Eric Yeadon might contact you in the near future from Australia. You might also get a sight of the Vedic Passenger List.
Are you certain that James and Elizabeth divorced ? There seem to be two death registrations that would fit (unless one or both of them is a strange coincidence) ...
Third quarter of 1957 at Blackpool - Elizabeth M Yeadon aged 63 (10b 465)
Second quarter of 1965 at Blackpool - James A Yeadon aged 87 (10b 484)
When your mother and her parents went to Australia in 1955, their address in UK was in Blackpool.
posteria
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Thats great!
Can I just confirm which census year the information kindly provided is from?
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The census information provided in Reply #30 is from 1901.
I think that Isabella was originally called Isabella Learman and she married a William England in 1890. She appears with him on the 1891 census. She then subequently paired up with Matthew Jackson and apparently had three children with him.
On the 1881 census Isabella is quite difficult to find but she is there if you are able to work out all of the clues. Once you know who she is listed as, on the 1881 census, it is reasonably easy to trace her family back.
If you cannot find her (when you have had a good look) please let us know and I (or someone else) will tell you where to look, if you wish to know.
posteria
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Thats amazing - thank you so much!
We have definately found the right information as interestingly I. England was a witness at Elizabeth Jacksons marriage. Isabella must have married Matthew Jackson after 1911. Interestingly (my great grandmother is a total mystery!!) if she was 6 in 1901 according to the census, she would have only been 16 when she married. Her marriage certificate says 21! I'll need to now look for her birth in the indexes to double check which of these records are correct.
Its highly unlikely then that I England was Elizabeth's birth mother and I assume whoever she was died before Elizabeth was 6 (prior to 1901).
Well I know what I will be doing this evening!!
Thank you, you really have been most helpful and so kind! Really appreciate it.
Sophie
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need to now look for her birth in the indexes to double check which of these records are correct.
The birth registration in the third quarter of 1894 at Guisborough with reference 9d 469 is shown under both surnames - Elizabeth Mary Jackson and Elizabeth Mary England.
posteria
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Oh my goodness - well I guess she was born out of wedlock?! Tut tut :-)
Well thats really interesting! So she was 16/17 when she was married and not 21 as her marriage certificate states. I wonder how she got away with that? Unless it was an admin error but I dont know. I dont know whether a birth certificate would have been needed to register a marriage. So James Arthur Yeadon was 16 years her senior.
Thank you - you have been most helpul!
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Nope, I've come across ancestors lying about their ages on marriage certificates as late as the 30s, when you would expect things to have become more regulated, so I imagine that even earlier there would have been no problem!
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Hi, My father and his sister (Joseph and Charlotte Cromack) were both born in Lower Feversham Street in 1905/7. I know there was St. Peters church at one end where they were christened. I have walked down this street a couple of times lately, all buildings have been demolished now. I often think and hope I may be walking in the same footsteps as my late dad did over 100 years ago. The Oxford Music Hall was also on this street which must have made it a busy place at times, as well as being near to the docks and supporting commercial businesses for the steelworks etc, fascinating !