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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: masterplumber on Tuesday 10 April 07 22:12 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Looking for any information about the CLUBBs from Airth. Managed to get back as far as Alexander CLUBB who married Margaret McLARIN on 02/02/1781. Am now well and truly stuck. I think Alexander might be the son/nephew/grandson of the James Club of Westfield who built Club's Tomb (the spelling of the Clubb name differs greatly with Club, Clubs, Clubbs, Clube, Clubb all variants). Can't establish that as a fact, though. Also can't find any more information from anywhere and am looking for some ideas. Can anyone suggest an alternative route for me to explore?
Apart from the Alexander mentioned above, there's another one around the same time - possibly slightly earlier - in Airth who married Janet NEILSON or NILLSON. As far as I can see, he they had 4 children (that I've been able to find) - john b1751, James b1745, Janet b1761 and Elizabeth b1748. Again, I have no info on birth/marriage/death but I suspect it's a branch of the same family given the surname and location.
Any help greatly appreciated.
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Hello Masterplumber,
Welcome to Rootschat!
The following Memorial Inscriptions are taken from the pre-1855 East Stirlingshire Book for Airth Churchyard. (The MI's are abbreviated and it's sometimes quite difficult to figure out what exactly the inscription might say)
Here goes . . .
(No. 68)
30.01.1830;
John Clubb died Grangemouth 28.2.1859 aged 75
Jean McNellan died Grangemouth 4.4.1855 aged 74
(No. 69)
30.1.1830
Erected by John Clubb and Jean McNellan to Janet Murray Clubb who died 22.7.1889 aged 69.
I'll have a wee look at the British Vital Records CD's and see if I can find anything else.
Anne
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I can't find anything earlier than the births for the above couple's children who are all listed as born in Falkirk.
If you want the details, let me know.
Anne
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Thanks. The info on John and Jean was interesting.
John was one of 9 children (that I've found so far) that Alexander and Margaret McLarin had. He and Jean in turn had 10 children as far as I can see.
Perhaps you can help me understand one part though.
(No. 68)
30.01.1830;
John Clubb died Grangemouth 28.2.1859 aged 75
Jean McNellan died Grangemouth 4.4.1855 aged 74
(No. 69)
30.1.1830
Erected by John Clubb and Jean McNellan to Janet Murray Clubb who died 22.7.1889 aged 69.
I can't see how these dates make sense. What do the first dates - 30/01/1830 - refer to? Is that the date of entry into the book? If so, how can these dates pre-date the dates of death or erection of memorial? You can tell I'm new to all of this...
I'd love the birth dates of John and Jean's children too. I think I've dientified aobut 10 so it would be useful to cross check.
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One of life's little mysteries I'm afraid!!
Unless you could get a hold of the Churchyard Burial Records and from that try and ascertain if this was the date the lairs/plots were purchased . . . . . or perhaps the date of death of one of their children? Who knows. It was quite common for people to buy lairs beforehand so the date might have no relevance whatsoever. (It will be inscribed on the stone, hence the reason for it being listed in the MI book) They probably purchased two, one for themselves and one for their children.
I had a quick look at both Falkirk & Stirling's Archives web-sites but there's no sign of them having any sort of burial records for Airth. Stirling had the Kirk Sessions but that seems to be it.
The only other place to try would be the Cemetery Records Office. http://www.stirling.gov.uk/cemetries
It might be worthwhile writing/phoning to ask if they have anything - even if was to find out if anyone else was buried in either of the plots.
The numbers 68 and 69 are only reference numbers to the inscriptions - they don't have any bearing on what the actual lair number would be, that you would get from the Records Office also.
If you live locally, it would be worthwhile going for a wee look. The Churchyard isn't very big and providing the stones are still standing and legible, it wouldn't take you very long to find them. If however, you don't live locally, I'm not too far from Airth so I could go and have a look for you.
In the meantime, here's a wee piccy of the Church taken from the Cemetery.
Anne
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Sorry, forgot to add the births of the children!
(I've listed other Club(b)s also in case they're of any use to you.)
CLUBS, Janet, born 7 Feb 1814, christened 22 Feb 1814
Father: James CLUBS Mother: Agnes MITCHELL
CLUB, Alexander, born 11 May 1818, christened 17 May 1818
Father: John CLUB Mother: Jean MACNELLEN
CLUB, John Mcnellen, born 16 Oct 1819, christened 1 Nov 1819
Father: John CLUB Mother: Jean MCNELLEN
CLUBS, Margaret Hamilton, born 5 May 1822, christened 19 May 1822
Father: John CLUBS Mother: Jean MCNELLAN
CLUB, Alexander, born 3 Oct 1824, christened 17 Oct 1824
Father: John CLUB Mother: Jean MCNELLEN
CLUB, Elizabeth, born 14 Feb 1849
Father: Alexander CLUB Mother: Janet MURRAY
CLUB, John, born 4 Mar 1851
Father: Alexander CLUB Mother: Janet MURRAY
CLUB, James born 26 Jul 1853
Father: Alexander CLUB Mother: Janet MURRAY
Anne
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Anne,
Thanks very much. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for me.
I do stay locally so will be heading out to Airth when I get the time for a wee look.
I emailed both Stirling and Falkirk archives this afternoon and will go out to see them when I get a chance. I also want to go and see Club(b)'s Tomb but I need to check a few things with Falkirk first.
I thought that researching a name like Clubb would be relatively straightforward and found it quite easy I suppose to get back to the marriage of Alexander ad Margaret McLarin in 1781. But before that it is all a bit of a blank just now.
From what I can gather there was, within Scotland, only really a branch of the Clubbs in Airth and another in Aberdeenshire. The Aberdeenshire lot seems to be better documented - perhaps the Aberdonian churchmen were a bit more resolute in record keeping - but I have yet to make the connection between the two branches. ultimately, of course, I would like to know where the family originates from but that is much further down the line.
In the 80s I worked on a project in Stirling to index the local paper (Stirling Observer). This involved reading through every single issue and recording salient local facts in a card index. I remember indexing the marriage of Archibald Clubs in 1863 (I know more about life in Stirling in 1863 than is probably healthy). It was only last week that I found out that he was my great-great-grandfather. Obviously, one of the reasons for contacting Stirling archives is to see if they kept that index - I'm fairly sure it was handed over to them when our project folded due to lack of money - and hopefully I can ascertain that next week some time.
Thanks again for your help.
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Went out yesterday to have a wee look and found the gravestones fairly quickly (despite my 4-yr old running aobut like a daftie).
They are exactly as you say.
The 2 stones sit next to each other and are the same size. At the top of each stone is inscribed the date 30 January 1830. Then underneath are the inscriptions as you have described. I don't understand how this can work. Were the stones perhaps put up in 1830 when the plot was procured? and then inscribed at time of death? Seems odd that the inscription dates at the top predate the dates of death.
Also had a quick look at club's Tomb and am going back on sunday for a proper look about.
I'm well and truly stuck at the moment although I have still to get soem information from Stirling council archives. Managed to find another Archibald - who I think was one of Alexander's sons - who was an ironmonger in Doune. There are two or three stories related to him on the old Stirling Observer which I am tracking. In one of them his wife was accidentally poisoned...
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The significance of 30th January 1830 - perhaps you'll never know!
I would go with the theory that the date would be inscibed, maybe not exactly when the plots were purchased, but when the stones were erected.
Hopefully somewhere along the line you'll get a wee snippet to link in with this date. I must admit that it is slightly unusual in the fact that it gives the date and month rather than just the year which is far more common.
It's a pity there don't seem to be any burial records for the churchyard, but If you get a chance to read through the Kirk Sessions for 1830, well, you never know what'll turn up. Maybe they had a 'buy one, get one free' day!
Anne
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hi im bill i have just joined roots chat .my grandmother was elizabeth clubbs born in sunderland in 1887.my ancestors spent some time in Cumberland .my ancestor moved to cumberland from airth, james clubbs born 6/4/1794 ,one of 9 children .dad alexander clubbs and mum margaret mclaren.
after not finding a birth for alexander or a marriage or kids for john c 28/4/1751 i think they are the same people say john alexander .dad alexander clubb and mum janet nillson or neilson .i think this alexander was born in pitsligo aberdeenshire 26/6/1725 dad alexander and mum margaret pirie .also andrew 1723 ,william 1727 ,james 1732 .
any way the clubbs name comes from aberdeenshire .
with regard to john clubbs b1784 and jean mcnellan .i have seen the tombstones in airth as i live only a few miles away .jean was born in1781 .cant find jean but there was a margaret mcnellan born 14/10/1781 in stirling dad archibald mum janet robertson
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Masterplumber
Since your original message was posted almost 2 years ago you may already have this info. There are references to 11 Club/Clubbs in the Airth Parish Burials (pre-1855) which Central Scotland Family History Society transcribed from the OPRs several years ago. These aren't the same as the Mitchells' Monumental Inscriptions. If you'd like the info let me know, although if you're local you'll be able to see them in the library in Stirling. The newspaper indexes are also there. No Clubs in the 'People' section of the 'Stirling Journal and Advertiser' index but a couple in the 'Stirling Observer People Index 1836 - 1856'. In the General Reference part Archibald Clubbs of Doune, ironmonger, gets 2 mentions in 1851, one of which also mentions his wife who seems to have been accidentally poisoned!
Regards
Hannah
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Hi Hannah
Been off the case for a while but intend getting back into it all again soon.
Interesting what you say about the newspaper indices in the library. I was (partially) responsible for the Stirling Observer ones as I was supervisor on the project in the early-mid 80s that created those indices in the first place! Good to see they are still around.
I'll check out the Airth Parish burials now that I know they are there.
Hi Bill - interested to talk to you about some of this stuff too perhaps if you're local. I found it relatively easy to get back to the Airth Clubbs (Alexander and Margaret MacLaren) but difficult to get any further back than that. I was at Aberdeen University as a student many years ago - I'm from Stirling originally - and I couldn't believe how many Clubbs were in the Aberdeen telephone directory. So I guessed there was some kind of connection but have never been able to find it. what source do you have for alexander being originally from Pitsligo? also - I seem to remember someone saying many years ago that the Clubb name came from Danish fishermen arriving in the NE of Scotland but obviously I've never been able to make much out of that either.
Also trying to establish where John Club of Club's Tomb 'fame' fits into the picture.
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hi mp
ive got a list of all the lds igi batch numbers fo christenings and marriages and checked for alexander clubb .found b1725 pitsligo C112332 batch ,also andrew b1723,william b1728,james b1732 ,jane 1738 .dad alexander and mum margaret pirie .however records for pitsligo,tyrie and aberdour parishes stopped in 1719 .
i managed to find a marion club marriage in 24/2/1663 in st andrews,orkney to david matches M110252 BATCH .
I live in cumbernauld where some clubbs lived in 1835 BATCH 7312405 .Also a family lived in dunoon 1806 dad andrew clubb wife catherine fletcher .C115104 batch .
my clubbs moved to rockcliffe cumbria from airth in 1880s
bill
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Just to add my name to the list of people descended from John Clubbs and Jean McNellan. Their daughter - Margaret Clubbs (b. 1822), married a gas engineeer, Peter Watson. One of his sons, James Fairley Watson, moved South, working in Wycombe, Buckinghamshire and Essex. Some of his descendants settled in Hampshire.
Thanks to Bill and Masterplumber for their info on this thread.
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Suppose I should add mine too...
My mother, Sarah Woods. Her father, Thomas woods. His mother, Janet Smith. Her father, William Smith. His mother, Janet Ogilvie. Her mother, Euphemia Robertson. Her mother, Janet Clubb. Her parents, Alexander and Margaret were my G. G. G. G. G. G. Grandparents... :D
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Hi guys!
My name is Courtney and I am a Clubbs that migrated to the United states! I have gone as far back as Alexander and Margaret McLaren. Does anyone here have the same relation? I saw Masterplumber did on another thread. We are coming over to Scotland and Ireland in a week and wanted to see if anyone we actually found relation too wanted to meet! Thanks!
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Hi Courtney...
Alexander and Margaret are direct ancestors of mine... Margaret's parents were Duncan MacLaren and Janet (McIndoe). There is other stuff you'll love :D
Anything else gimme a shout.. I'm on Facebook and email is johnsankus@hotmail.co.uk
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hi mp
ive got a list of all the lds igi batch numbers fo christenings and marriages and checked for alexander clubb .found b1725 pitsligo C112332 batch ,also andrew b1723,william b1728,james b1732 ,jane 1738 .dad alexander and mum margaret pirie .however records for pitsligo,tyrie and aberdour parishes stopped in 1719 .
i managed to find a marion club marriage in 24/2/1663 in st andrews,orkney to david matches M110252 BATCH .
I live in cumbernauld where some clubbs lived in 1835 BATCH 7312405 .Also a family lived in dunoon 1806 dad andrew clubb wife catherine fletcher .C115104 batch .
my clubbs moved to rockcliffe cumbria from airth in 1880s
bill
Hi Bill. That would be James Clubb, son of Alexander Clubb and Margaret McLaren, yes?
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I have a 1730 document where James Club is a merchant in Airth. He lends money to William Daling of Berrow.... (Bo'Ness) Signed by William Daling.