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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 11 April 07 18:08 BST (UK)
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Can anyone identify & date the car in this photo please. The man standing by the car is my grandfather,1895- 1966.
Many thanks,
jane
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Jane.
It could be a 'Crossley':
http://www.crossley-motors.org.uk/history/1930.html
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It does look very similar, Pegasuss, but there are some differences. The radiator grill is a different shape. The car in my photo doesn't look as long as the Crossley car and the door handles are set in different places.
Thanks for the link,
jane
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It does look very similar, Pegasuss, but there are some differences. The radiator grill is a different shape. The car in my photo doesn't look as long as the Crossley car and the door handles are set in different places.
Thanks for the link,
jane
And the Wing Mirror is in a Different place! ::)
Anyway, you asked for a Date! How about 1946-1954 ;)
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My Granddad had a car that looked like that in the fifties when i was little.I will have a look in my Car book.
Celia
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I think you're about right with the date Pegasuss. The younger guy in the car is my Dad & he married in late 1948. If it had been after that date I think my Mum would be in evidence. There are other photo's obviously taken on the same holiday or outing & she's not in them either.
Didn't notice the wing mirror, nicely spotted ;)
Thanks Celia for doing a look-up in your car book, hope you find something.
jane
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I just noticed i put the fifties on my post i have a photo of me on a day out and it was the forties.Anyway i have looked in the book,but it is a worlds Classic cars book 1900 to date which was 1982.So it isn't in there.The reason i remember that car so well is,I liked the back door it was easy to get into for me plus the big dashboard for my little legs because i was little and six.That was the day granddad stopped suddenly got out of the car.Ages later he came back with something wrapped in a blanket and gave it to mum in the back who then put on the floor by me.Because my feet didn't reach it ;D.She wouldn't let me peek inside. A few years later when we looking at the photo's my mum said "Oh yes that was the day your granddad ran over a dog" :o :o ;D
Celia
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A few years later when we looking at the photo's my mum said "Oh yes that was the day your granddad ran over a dog" :o :o ;D
Celia
Celia......what a great story.......sorry about the dog....but I did laugh!...LOLOLOL
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Indi
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I think it's an Austin 10...me Dad had one...
The flat windscreen looks very similar
What do you think?
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Another Austin 10
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Yes, it does look like the Austin 10 :D & what a funny story, Celia...poor doggie :'(
I know my father had a fondness for Austin cars so that's where it might have begun & his first car was an Austin A40 (as was mine :))
Nice work guys ;)
jane
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Not sure it's an Austin 10. The back wheel arch on the A10 is wider, there are also trafficators which are missing from Jane's car. The mirror is not in the same place - but that could have been an optional extra. You also cannot see the bars that the windscreen has for when the screen is raised up.
However the vents on the side are the same on the black A10 as they are on Jane's car. So I would say that Jane's car is the same period as the A10 and maybe an Austin or perhaps possibly a Ford.
What a pity Jane's grandfather has his leg in front of the wheel hub because I reckon if we could have seen it clearly it would have identified the car.
Jean
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I'll ask him to move it Jean ;D
jane
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Have you tried looking on the back of the photo ;D ;D ;D
Sorry Scouse humour ::)
Jean
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A very similar Morris 10/4 is at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1933Morris10-4ii.jpg
(see image below)
And a Standard 10 at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1933.standard.10.arp.jpg
but the door handles are differently placed and the vents are different.
Is that a spare wheel attached to the back of Jane's car in the first photo?
JAP
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Jean, Scouse humour rocks ;D
JAP, yes, it does look like a spare wheel!
jane
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I know a man who could tell you what it is where it was built etc...
What this guy does not know about cars, would fit on the back of a stamp.
I will pin him down in front of this picture later
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It is an Austin 12 built approx 1936.
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fleabag, It would be interesting to know what were the identifying features which brought him to that conclusion - rather than the Austin 10, or a similar car from another maker.
Jane, Google as I may, I can't find a similar car with an exposed spare wheel - perhaps they'd removed the boot cover ;)
JAP
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Hi Jane, I have studied this picture for a while now and with 30 years of vintage car experience, I think it will be a family member who remembers the make for you to find out what it is. There were 100's of British car makers in the 1920s and '30s.
http://www.krbaker.demon.co.uk/britcars/makes.html
The roof line indicates late '20s rather than late '30s. I'm not convinced it is an Austin 12 yet ;) because a few of the identifiable items don't appear to fit Austin.
1. the rectangular opening front windscreen, flat on the bottom. Austins were curved slightly.
2. the short front cowl (before the bonnet) is very short and flat with no moulding. Austins had a "D" mould in the body work of some shape around where the windscreen meets the body.
3. the front mudguard is flat, no curve, and the corner is a right angle fold not a rounded corner. Austins had a rounded corner.
4. many cars had the spare wheel mounted on the back up until around 1936 when they were hidden in the boot/trunk. Some models continued to mount the spare on the back into the 1940s.
5. the spoke wheels and centre hub cap look very much like Austin, but also like many other British cars of the time.
6. the running board is a bit primative compared to what Austin had on their cars.
There is one Web Site where I think you will get an answer though. http://www.prewarcar.com
If you post your pictures there and ask if the car could be identified. They have a weekly competition there for just such questions.
Cheers, Red
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You just beat me Red. I had noted 5 of your observations plus one you didn't note.
Namely that the roof looks like it has a vynyl top, which of course is too early, however I think this indicates that the roof rolls back to make the car opened topped.
Then there is the rear bumper which you can just see the edge of.
Jane
I am wondering if the car isn't an English make. Perhaps American? Was your grandfather abroad at any time?
I have been trawling through the pictures on motorbase.com - took me a long time as I started going down memory lane as I hadn't realised how many different cars I have driven since I passed my test in 1968.
Jean
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Hi Red, What a very thoughtful post! Though I think it is very likely early to mid-30s from Googled images.
I'm no vintage car freak - though I did once, in my dim and distant youth, own a 1928 (or 1929?) Austin 7 tourer (would that I had it today!).
All the images that have been found seem to have the spare covered by a boot - which is why I mentioned it.
Though models within a particular year and make did tend to differ.
Jean, I'd been looking for an image with the particular shape just behind the front of the roof which appears on Jane's image - but no luck.
Also for what seem to be, in Jane's picture, the grooves for movement of the windscreen up and down (unless someone can suggest something else for those features).
Incidentally, I also thought that Jane's picture was likely a smaller car (like a 10) rather than the larger 12.
Let's hope that a definitive answer will be forthcoming.
Regards,
JAP
PS: I'm appalled that I hadn't noticed the curved/straight bottom of the windscreen - though Indiapaleale's Austin 10 seems to have a straight bottomed windscreen.
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Taking another closer look at the picture you can see that the car has three windows each side. This would make it what would have been a 'posher' car in the early days. Not sure if it would have been called a limosine or not. More reason to suppose it's not a British car I would have thought.
I do hope someone can finally identify it as I'm sure Jane does. :)
Jean
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;D I'm totally out my depth here & I bow to all these car-buff's superior knowledge, you really are down to the fine details ;)
Jean, no, Grandad was never in the States. He was a Railway Station Supervisor on the Southern Line, so he wasn't that flush with money!
My Dad, who's sitting in the car was born 1927 & he looks to be in his early twenties & probably this photo was taken around 1947/48 just before he married my Mum (late 1948) Obviously that doesn't mean the car is of the same date.
Red, unfortunately there are no family members around who might remember the car :(
Glad everyone's having such fun with it, I'm so surprised it's proving so difficult to pin down!
jane
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Jean,
If you look at photos on various websites and of various cars already mentioned, 3 windows each side were a feature. For example, the Wikipedia description of the Austin 10 says: 'A new body style was added in 1936 with the six light (three windows down each side, with one behind the rear door) "Sherbourne" '.
JAP
PS: I mentioned earlier that I owned a 1928 Austin 7. Given comments above I'd better stress that I certainly wasn't alive in 1928 ::)
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Just found these other photo's of the same car, the grill is surely a Morris?
jane
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Oh Jane, Surely not the same car! Look at the straight bottom of the windscreen on the early picture of Dad in car, and the curved bottom of the windscreen on newest picture :o
Not to mention position of door handle!! And two doors vs four doors. And two windows each side vs three windows.
I think that the newest photos must be of the family's next car!!
JAP
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Oh blimey, you're right. Obviously cars are not my thing :-[
jane
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True! But they are all still lovely cars, aren't they. :D
JAP
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Undoubtedly great looking cars. They don't make them like they used to ;D
jane
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Jane
Now you have really confused me with the second car. The grill does look like an early Morris but the badge looks like a Wolseley or maybe a Sunbeam.
Are you able to see a bit more of the badge or wheel hubs using a magnifying glass. The hubs sometimes have a logo or letter on them.
JAP
I didn't look at the number of windows on the A10. I was looking at the windscreens mainly, I just assumed the number of windows would indicate a larger model.
Jean
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Forget the second car JAP. I thought it was the same as the first car :-[
jane
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Hi All
Could it possibly be 1932 Morris Major 4-Door Saloon as found on http://www.britishmm.co.uk/history.asp?id=634
Mary :)
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Hi
Forget the color, You may notice the way the door handles are located and the way that the fairings are straight running down to the footboards. an unusual design for the time as other manufacturers had a full curve.
Jay (Mary's other half) ;)
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Hi, could I put in a vote for Morris as well. From the side, it looks just like a Morris ten-Four, but the curved windscreen-bottom is wrong, so I wonder if it could be a 1931 Morris Cowley. There is a pic of one at http://www.vintagewedding-cars.co.uk/wedding_car_hire_services.htm
and then click on 1931 Burgundy Morris Cowley.
Therse seem to have the 3 door hinges, the rectangular screen and the row of closely spaced bonnet louvres. Also the bonnet is rather square-edged. The running boards on these Morrises look similar too. :)
Fred (trying to find a better side view ::) )
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When taking a photo of relatives by their car please make sure you take three.;D One standing by the side of the front of it so as not to obstruct the view ;D. one from the back,then the side.Then in then in fifty years time when the grandkids finds a photo of granddad they wont have this problem ;) ;D ;D
Celia
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Very good "Stockman Fred" the closest thing so far is the 1931 Morris Cowley, ;D square windscreen frame, three windows down the side, door handles, door hinges, bonnet louvers all being the same. The things that do not match are the rear mounted spare and I still think the front mudguard on the cowley is curved with rounded edges.
However the one feature that would remain the same is the "very" short front cowl (between the door and the bonnet) it is way too short for the Morris cowley.
My bet is still on an obscure British (it is not American) Manufacturer, not very well known, producing low volume sales and not surviving after WW11.
The second set of photos is a British Ford Y, built between 1933-1937, 4-cylinder, Side Valve - 933cc - 22hp engine. A total of 157,668 built
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/pfordgb.htm
Cheers, Red
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check out the 1933 BSA 10HP saloon almost at the bottom of this page:
http://www.vintagecarconnection.com/recent_appraisals.htm
it looks pretty similar to me, although obviously not in such good condition
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Oh...Dudley......I do believe!
Gets my vote.....and...who would have thunk it!
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It does look like it doesn't it, but does the screen look curved at the bottom? Maybe it just means it's a year or two older before they updated them?
Some of the makes look so similar, I wonder if they all bought their body pressings from the same factory. :)
Fred
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Can you identify the registration from any of your photographs?
It may be possible to track down the first owner and further details including make via local Record Office. The registration letters would give an indication as to where it was registered.
I know my husband was able to do that via Suffolk Record Office a year or three back when researching old cars :)
SM ...
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Dudley, great find, you are on the right track ...... a more obsure British Make. It is definitely closer than the Morris Cowley and does have a short front cowl.
But I'm still not convinced.
As Fred observes the 1933 BSA still has the curved windscreen, and I think the front mudguard is extended to fill the wheel gap and the running board edge is rounded, the brake drum is a different casting and the hub cap is smaller.
Check out: http://www.bsafwdc.co.uk/page11s.php
I know these things changed from year to year so it still may be a BSA from earlier.
Red
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That's it Dudley i am positive, even the wheels are the same.I don't know what half circle is on the inside corner of the front window but your photo has one as well.
Celia
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1933 10 H.P saloon
http://www.bsafwdc.co.uk/page50s.php
Celia
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But that has a curved bottom of the windscreen.
JAP
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::) ;D I'm just sitting here chuckling away to myself. This is getting like 'Topsy', just growing & growing ;D I just thought that a car date might help me get a closer date for the photo...but as long as you're all having fun ;D
Got a few motorcycles if you're interested ;) ;)
jane
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Red
I think you're right by saying it's an obscure pre-war model. A lot of smaller companies either sold out or went got bombed out.
Jane
You have given me hours of fun trawling through old books and internet car sites. Made quite a change from looking for boring old ancestors. ;D
Celia
I think you have hit the nail on the head by saying take 3 photo's. The only problem there is keeping them all together for the grandkids. ;D Mind you if Jane's granddad had written on the back of the photo we wouldn't have had so much fun.
Jean
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;D Glad I brightened up a few of your days Jean, it's certainly brought a smile to my face everytime I've opened Rootschat to see how you've all gone at it!
jane
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Hi all, I have had fun with this topic, it has keep me amused for a couple of days. ;D
I now know what it is.
It's a 1932 model Morris Minor 4-door saloon, side-valve, "Family Eight"
I contacted the BSA Club and the President (no less) told me that it wasn't a BSA but a pre war Morris Minor. A google search found this photo.
I think Jap got it first "similar to a Morris 10/4"
Cheers Red
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Ohh Red..well done!
You spoke to the President ...Wow I am impressed!
My first job, at age 15, was at the BSA in Small Heath...so I was hoping for a Beezer connection!
But a Morris looks good too.......
Cheers
Indi
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Hi Red,
Congratulations!!
It even has that odd moulding on the roof just behind the windscreen like Jane's car. Brilliant.
I had not the slightest idea that Morris Minors had actually existed prior to the curvy little Morris Minor which came in at the end of the 1940s.
Thank you for solving the puzzle.
JAP
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Well done Red. Now I can sleep at night ;D ;D ;D
Right now who's got the next puzzle??
Jean
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Applause, applause ;) Well done Red :D
Motor cycles are still on offer if you fancy that Jean :P
jane
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After the fun we had with the old car the other day, I thought I might add a couple of pics I took this morning.
I was driving past the church while going to check the cows when I spied a familiar looking car in the lane. I couldn't resist a couple of pics, and was able to pronounce knowledgably "I do believe that is a 1931 Morris Cowley, notice the slightly longer cowl than the '32 Minor." :) ;D
How to impress people with Rootschat!
Fred
ps I jumbled the number plate to avoid offending the owner.
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Good one Fred.
But not to mention that, short cowls or long cowls (or milch? cows being visited) aside, even in a comparison with the original photo on this thread, it doesn't have wire wheels and doesn't have the weird moulding on the roof just behind the windscreen ...
But it does indeed have the straight bottom to the windscreen ...
I will look at the vehicles in the next Bay to Birdwood Vintage Run (Sep 2008, Adelaide) with a different perspective.
JAP
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Looks like a nice sunny day down there in the New Forest, Fred ;) Hope the cows were in fine fettle when you eventually got round to them ;)
jane