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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Lady constance on Saturday 14 April 07 08:22 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
Just a quick question, i found a really awsome site online that has the map showing areas of poverty and wealth in and around london. the problem is it doesn't go up as far as West Ham, Plaistow area.
Lots of my relatives moved to this area in the 1880 era. Was wondering what kind of area it was?
just wondering:-)
any musing or suggestions greatfully contemplated:-)
Constance
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Good morning my Lady-
Plaistow - pronounced Plarsto by the locals and Playstow by BBC radio presenters.
It is close to where the docks used to be so I guess most people in that area had work related to the docks/warehousing/transport etc.
I would say that most of the streets were made up of fairly close-packed terraced houses occupied by working-class people. The area suffered a lot of bombing in WW2 and a lot of the housing was replaced by high-rise flats in 1960s.
I suspect that most of the streets are as they were in 1880s in outline but a lot of the buildings would be relatively modern. If you want to be more specific I'll try to add further detail.
Well before 1880s it would have had a railway which now forms part of the London Underground District Line
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Thanks so much for your reply,
i have the following street names if they will help you at all... i have found some modern images from these areas, but i don't have a time machine. (one object that i would dearly love to own.... ;D)
Katherine street West Ham... many years spent there.
Peter St West Ham
Beckton road West ham
Crofton Road, Plaistow (my granddad was born at no 94. :-)
any further ideas?
love to know
kind regards,
Constance
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Thanks so much for your reply,
i have the following street names if they will help you at all... i have found some modern images from these areas, but i don't have a time machine. (one object that i would dearly love to own.... ;D)
Katherine street West Ham... many years spent there.
Peter St West Ham
Beckton road West ham
Crofton Road, Plaistow (my granddad was born at no 94. :-)
any further ideas?
love to know
kind regards,
Constance
My family have lived for over 150 years in West Ham. Sorry a small point is its Katherine Road, my father during the war, sneaked home, parked his army lorry in the grounds of Katherine House and it was bombed over night, I wounder how it got out of that one. On the corner of Katherine Road and Milton Avenue Dame Vera Lynn lived in a huge house which is still standing. I lived in Milton Avenue as a kid and can remember my best friend and I found a small bomb and proudly took it to the police station and asked if we could keep it, the policeman told us to *** off! Also of course West Ham was in Essex and therefore may not be listed as in London. Clincher is quite right it was terraced housing in the main and the docks played a huge part of daily life. My family were seamen my wife's watermen, tugmasters and dock labourers. There were very rich areas of West Ham in the Romford Road area. Holy Trinity is the main church for the Plaistow Parish
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Oh wow, :-)
my nana and her family moved from there in the early 20's to New Zealand so escaped the bobming of the area. except that all her siblings (including herself) went as served during the war overseas. She was a nurse in Egypt!
but they lived there between the 1880 - 1901 that i can tell....don't know after that till the census comes out.
Nice to here from you
Constance
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Hi Constance,
I've got ancestors living in West Ham from the 1830s - 1880s and then another lot in 1881-about 1890.
The first lot were farmers and market gardeners from Kent, who moved to Essex for some reason in the mid 1830s, and continued market gardening in West Ham (Whalebone Lane) for several decades.
The second lot were a newly married couple who ran a private tuition institution for a short time in a new area of West Ham. It looks like new suburban subdivisions were being put in around that time (1880) and you can see evidence of this on one of the old maps on this site: http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
Just put the following coordinates into the search box at top left, and choose "coordinates" and click search: 539826,183951
You will get a choice of maps, choose the top one (Essex). Then, when you see the map, click the "show enlarged view" option and you will get a nice big ordnance survey map to look at. Look over at the far right and you will see some new roads sketched in, just above the London-Tilbury Railway. These are the new subdivisions.
Hope that helps :)
Prue
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I think it is accurate to say that West Ham was (still is?) the Registration District covering all those streets and those streets are in localities such as:
Katherine Street runs from edge of Forest Gate in north to Upton Park, East Ham in south. Solid terrace houses on main road. Nice place to live in before the car was invented. Most houses from 1880s still there I suspect but open to correction. Lots of houses converted to shops
Peter St - can't find that on modern map.
Beckton Road - closer to Canning Town than Plaistow -I remember working briefly at huge gasworks and coking-plant in 1950s which dated from 1880s if not before. This area massively re-developed. Gasworks may have disappeared by now.
Crofton Road - co-incidentally I drove down Prince Regent Lane past the end of this road recently. Off the main road and possibly intact from Victorian times.
I've just read Indaloman's message - many of the houses in Romford Road are still there. Basements for the servants to live and 2 or 3 storeys on top of that. Went into multi-occupation by WW2 and area declined rapidly but now being partly 'gentrified'
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It really makes a difference knowing that these places are in some way "real" when researching the people that lived in them.
living in Australia it make it very difficult to place people in an environment. If you know what i mean.
thanks so much for your comments they really do help.
this is the family that comes from that area...
http://ketleyfamilytree.rootschat.net/ketleyphotopage.htm
the big photo with about 14 people in is an riot of very "interesting people" i have nicknamed them with very nastly names im afraid to say... i have never seen so strange people together..
thanks for the tip about the map i will look that up. i tried old maps earlier but i just got a black screen. I'll give it another go now..
thanks again
Constance
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Hi Lady Constance :)
I know what you mean - I live in Australia too! ;)
I hope you can get Old Maps to work, it's such a great site. West Ham is very different today from back when it must have been open fields, small farms and not much else!
Prue
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I sometimes find estate agents' websites useful for finding images of houses. If you google 'Spicer McColl' and search their website for Crofton Road you'll see an image (a bit gloomy and not necessaily your number!) which tends to confirm that it that street is pretty old and if you take the virtual tour (limited) you'll see how the living rooms look (after they have been knocked through into one)
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I have done that!!!! ;D ;D ;D
My other little hobby is house design... so i have done every tour in the area i can find.
you are right very helpful. Will try that agent though....never know..
:-)
Constance
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These websites give a little info about the history of the area,
http://www.eolfhs.org.uk/parish/west_ham.htm
http://www.newham.gov.uk/AboutNewham/History/History.htm
http://www.newham.com/About+Newham/NewhamsPast/..... (http://www.newham.com/About+Newham/NewhamsPast/From+backwater+to+industrial+heartland.htm)
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And this is a good website for Docklands area:
http://www.parishregister.com/
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I have quite a few ancestors who lived in West Ham and the surrounding area. I think it would be safe to say that since none of my ancestors was remotely well off as far as I know, the area wasn't affluent although it may have been "nicer" than it is now.
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Our understanding of our past can sometimes be way off target. Obviously, I cannot say that this is so in your case but I couldn't resist googling one of the names in your list of family names: Lister.
If you google 'Joseph Lister' you'll get a hit for a Quaker, born in 1827 in Upton, Essex (which was and is part of West Ham but more familiarly known as Upton Park which is where West Ham United play). His father was a wine merchant and, presumably, being near the docks was handy for that trade and I reckon wine merchants aren't short of dosh. Now whether the family remained in West Ham until later in 1800s/1900s and remained prosperous I can't say but you might have been millionaires ;).
A school in West Ham was named after him (Lister Tech). And I know of at least one road with that name a few miles away. The area has certainly changed since those times but some gems remain, if you know where to look
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oh the might have beens....
the thing that gets me is that they SOLD the properties.... if they could only have passed them on to MEEEEE...
bugger...ancestors selling property. My grandparents sold their TWO houses in the 1950's one in central Sydney now worth a lifelime of savings, one in central london worth two lifetime savings, and here is the biggie..... the other side of the family owned a massive penthouse appartement on the Gold Coast of aussie worth god knows how much... and it got sold when Gdad died....sigh....
don't get me started on the trashy furniture that they thew out which in today's market...well..... you know what they say about Trash & Treasure..
sigh....
had to vent
::) ::) ::)
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My dad's parents lived in Canningtown, West Ham from the start of the 1900's till WW2...all their children were born there.
An address I have for them in 1910 was 7 Kerry St, Tidal Basin, Canningtown.
I know they moved to Berkshire (to daughter's place) away from the bombing, so the place was probably flattened.
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Our understanding of our past can sometimes be way off target. Obviously, I cannot say that this is so in your case but I couldn't resist googling one of the names in your list of family names: Lister.
If you google 'Joseph Lister' you'll get a hit for a Quaker, born in 1827 in Upton, Essex (which was and is part of West Ham but more familiarly known as Upton Park which is where West Ham United play). His father was a wine merchant and, presumably, being near the docks was handy for that trade and I reckon wine merchants aren't short of dosh. Now whether the family remained in West Ham until later in 1800s/1900s and remained prosperous I can't say but you might have been millionaires ;).
A school in West Ham was named after him (Lister Tech). And I know of at least one road with that name a few miles away. The area has certainly changed since those times but some gems remain, if you know where to look
Lord Lister lived in Lister House, a huge beautiful house next door to St Anthony's Infant School. It had a massive sweeping oak staircase with oak panelled walls. It remained closed for many years and was finally demolished and a block of flats was erected on the site. I was a policeman at Forest Gate and used to nip into the gardens when the house still stood and pick fresh figs for my breakfast.
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'Allo, Allo, Allo, scrumping eh. Not giving a fig about taking the figs :D
Don't let MrsLizzy catch up wiv yer
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You help yourself, love! ;D My Listers never went near West Ham. They started off in Marylebone in the 1820s - 1840s and gradually moved towards Bethnal Green and Mile End where they stayed. My Thomas Lister married Emma Catherine Maltby - they were both born in Marylebone of Marylebone families. I am sure Emma had loads of nieces and nephews - she was living with one towards the end of her life in the 1901 census after Thomas' death.
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Does anyone have any information about Paul Street, West Ham during the 1800's. I've looked on Multimap.co.uk and i can see that Paul Street still exists but i don't know what sort of housing it is or whether it would have been a poor area during the 1800's. Any help gratefully appreciated! thanks
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Paul Street was/is small terraced housing for the working class. The more wealthy would have lived in Forest Gate.
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I came across this marriage at Essex RO:
Essex Marriage Registers T/R 203/86 pp5459
1804 Aug 12 GABRIELLE Vincent the younger of St Michael, Cornhill, London married MALTBY Margaret by Licence
In a lightning search I also saw that they had at least 2 GABRIELLE baptisms at West Ham, All Saints
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Paul Street was/is small terraced housing for the working class. The more wealthy would have lived in Forest Gate.
Thanks, do you know if there are any pictures of Paul Street (new or old) on the internet anywhere?
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Hi Clincher, sadly my Listers didn't live in West Ham - but some of my Wades did. My Edward Lister was a solicitors clerk.
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Hi,
I started a new site to cash in on the Olympics, so started with Stratford, then West Ham, and now a whole host of other areas - just history, Trade Directories and the like, and forgot about the olympics completely. Some are quite repetitive, but the names and addresses in the Directories can be useful, plus these give you a feel for how an area grows over time.
See http://romford-hornchurch.co.uk/index.shtml for all the areas covered.
Best
Kevan
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Hi Indaloman. In your post to Re: What kind of area was WEST HAM??« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 April 07 09:45 BST (UK) » you corrected Constance that Katherine Street was in fact Katherine Road. It is Katherine Road now but on my Great Uncle's birth certificate it shows he was born at 5 Katherine Street, Plaistow, West Ham on 22March 1888. They must have then moved as his brother is shown as being born at 59 Leyes Road, which is nearer to the docks. Their father was a chemical labourer. There were 12 Chemical factories & 4 Chemical manure works in West Ham.