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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: pampow on Wednesday 25 April 07 20:00 BST (UK)

Title: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: pampow on Wednesday 25 April 07 20:00 BST (UK)
Does any one know of a house called Sunlaws in Roxburghshire, I believe it is near Kelso but not certain
Family word has it my gg grandmother lived/worked there and it was listed as her residence on her marriage certificate in 1907

thanks pam
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: hume on Wednesday 25 April 07 20:02 BST (UK)
Now known as The Roxburghe House Hotel, it was built in the early 1800s. Read more about it here (http://www.roxburghe.net/about_us/).  :)
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: pampow on Wednesday 25 April 07 20:20 BST (UK)
thank you for the reply at least I can now find it
What I now need is to find out is who lived in it before it was turned into a hotel was it a big family home, what was the family and did they have servants?

thanks in advance
Pam
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Robert_S-K on Thursday 29 September 11 15:28 BST (UK)
Hi, just happened to be browsing looking for information on Sunlaws when I came across your post asking about the owners/inhabitants of Sunlaws. My family owned and inhabited Sunlaws from when it was built in early times. Andrew Kerr (distant relative) purchased lands of Sunlaws  in 1647. Brig-General Robert Scott-Kerr was possibly living there in the early 1900s. If you are interested I have a short history of Sunlaws.
regards Robert
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: pampow on Thursday 29 September 11 19:49 BST (UK)
Hi Robert

Thanks for getting in touch, I would love to hear any details about Sunlaws, family and estate as my great grandmother worked there and my Mum has vague memories of being taken there as a child. It must have made a big impression as she named her house Sunlaws.
Her family was born and bred around the Kelso area, and there may have been more of them that worked there ? So yes I would love to know more
Regards
Pam
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Robert_S-K on Friday 30 September 11 09:41 BST (UK)
Hello Pam, thanks for our interest in Sunlaws. I have a Word file that is maybe too large to send as text. I hope the file is attached and that you cacn read it. I have no info on those who may have worked at Sunlaws but you will see from the detail on Sunlaws that there must have been many extending over the years!
regards
Robert
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Robert_S-K on Monday 03 October 11 10:44 BST (UK)
Hello Pam, thanks for our interest in Sunlaws. I have a Word file that is maybe too large to send as text. I hope the file is attached and that you cacn read it. I have no info on those who may have worked at Sunlaws but you will see from the detail on Sunlaws that there must have been many extending over the years!
regards
Robert
Hello Pam, I wondered if you have been able to look at the history of Sunlaws that I sent with my last post and whether any of it was of interest re- your great grandmother.
Regards, Robert
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: pampow on Wednesday 05 October 11 22:42 BST (UK)
Hi Robert
Yes I have managed to read it, thank you so much for posting this,it was very interesting and with your permission I would like to keep a copy with my family tree. I know my Mum will love to read the history of Sunlaws when I see her. Unfortunately it doesn't help with finding out about the servants or their lives so my quest their continues.
Thank you once again for your help
Kindest Regards
Pam
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Robert_S-K on Thursday 06 October 11 11:37 BST (UK)
Hi Pam. Thanks for letting me now that you were able to read the history of Sunlaws.

Do please use the history detail. Sorry it doesn't help regarding the servants or their lives. I don't know how one goes about finding this out. The only thing of any relevance is perhaps who was actually living in Sunlaws at a particular time. From the history you will see that when the house was rebuilt in 1888/90, the family in residence at the time of the fire in 1885 then consisted of William Scott-Kerr, his daughter Mary by his first wife, Lady Scott Douglas of Springwood and nine children by his second wife Frances Louisa Fennessy, who died in 1884.
All the best with your enquiries. Let me know if you find anything out,
best wishes, Robert
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Thursday 06 October 11 13:57 BST (UK)
Hi Pam

The Heritage Hub in Hawick has transcribed and put online a diary of Robert's relative Hannah Charlotte Douglas, step-daughter (or was she the daughter?- see the diary!) of William Scott-Kerr. The diary dates from the late 1850s and considerable parts of it were written at Sunlaws. There are only occasional mentions of servants, but the lifestyle of the family probably didn't change substantially by the time your g-g-grandmother worked there. See:

http://www.voyageofthevampire.org.uk/mysister

Regards,

Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Robert_S-K on Thursday 06 October 11 14:19 BST (UK)
Hi Leslie,

Just thought you may be interested to know that Hannah-Charlotte Scott Douglas (1834-1921) was the youngest child of Sir John James Douglas and Hannah Charlotte Scott of Belford. Her father died when she was very young.

Before marrying she lived chiefly at Sunlaws the home of her step-father William Scott-Kerr. She married Edward Octavious Douglas though I don't know when.

regards, Robert
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Thursday 06 October 11 15:46 BST (UK)
Thank you, Robert.

William Scott-Kerr had spoken to Charlotte when she was 15 and implied that she was in fact not his step-daughter, but his daughter. When in 1856, aged 21, Charlotte is contemplating giving up her share of the Douglas inheritance to her older sisters (presumably because she feels she is not entitled to it), William Scott-Kerr retracts his earlier statement, saying that it was just gossip.
Charlotte doesn't know what to believe. She says: " I began the year believing myself to be a
K(err), spent part in doubt, and ended it a D(ouglas). I hope the latter is right."

Charlotte married her cousin Edward Octavius Douglas on 3rd November 1859, and they lived at Killiechassie, Dunkeld (now owned by J.K. Rowling)

Regards,

Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Robert_S-K on Thursday 06 October 11 16:55 BST (UK)
Thanks for the info Leslie. I have been updating the family tree and found that I didn't have that detail.

Did you read the history of Sunlaws that I sent Pam?
regards, R
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Friday 07 October 11 08:37 BST (UK)
Robert-

I have sent you a personal message.

Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: cockney rebel on Wednesday 26 October 11 13:29 BST (UK)
Hi there,

sorry to somewhat hijack this thread,but it looks like somebody following it  might be more than capable of answering my question.

My ancestor was born at Sunlaws in 1781...but I can't decipher the word following it.
Perhaps someone with local knowledge or even an old map can help me here ?

many thanks
rebel

Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Wednesday 26 October 11 16:05 BST (UK)
Hi Rebel

The word is 'Miln' Scots/archaic word for mill.

The ruins of Sunlaws Mill are still standing.

Regards,

Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: cockney rebel on Wednesday 26 October 11 19:45 BST (UK)
Hello Lesley

Mill was what I was hoping for..it fits in perfectly with the life of my ancestor,..the word Miln simply didn't occur to me and although I identified the capital "M" the rest looked like scribble !

Thankyou so much for your interpretation and help

Rebel

Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Wednesday 26 October 11 21:15 BST (UK)
Hi rebel

There is a modern photo of Sunlaws Mill at:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/104332

Regards,

Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Brisgirl on Friday 03 August 18 12:54 BST (UK)
Hi Robert et al,

Thanks so much for posting about the history of the Sunlaws estate. My great-great-grandfather William Lillico worked as a gardener, apparently in later life the head gardener, at Sunlaws from the 1870s till the 1890s. He and his wife Margaret died at "Sunlaws East Lodge" in 1898 and 1896 respectively. It was very interesting to read about the property's history.

Regards,

Rachel
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Friday 03 August 18 16:28 BST (UK)
Hi Rachel

Sadly, the Heritage Hub appears no longer to fund the Voyage of the Vampire website, but in the accompanying diaries of Hannah Charlotte Scott Douglas, there is a mention of the Lillicos in December 1856:

24th Mr Kerr went to shoot at Mountteviot, Saw Mrs Lillico in distress at having to leave her present comf: abode, & go back to the tumble down cottage in Heiton. The baby is thriving; I hope the change will not harm her; poor little thing.
25th Christmas-day. Dull & snowy looking; a sprinkling on this ground. I fear this has been anything but a merry Xmas to many. The poor Lillicos went back to their bare, cold and comfortless dwelling this morning at daybreak.


The baby referred to is Elizabeth Lillico- I wonder where the 'comfy abode' was? Had they been temporarily housed in part of the big house for the birth of the baby? This suggests also that William Lillico was already working as a gardener at Sunlaws by 1856.
Regards,
Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Brisgirl on Saturday 04 August 18 00:25 BST (UK)
Hi Lesley,

Oh my goodness, that's amazing! The baby Elizabeth referred to is my great-great-grandmother, born 17 September 1856. It's possible her mother Margaret gave birth to her at Sunlaws. The earliest record I have of the Lillicos actually living on the estate is the 1871 census and it appears they stayed there until William and Margaret's deaths in the 1890s.

It must have been very difficult making a living as a gardener during the winter months. I imagine William would have done general labouring work wherever he could find it. I feel sad thinking of them trying to eke out a life in a miserable little cottage with their four girls. The birth record of their seventh child, William, states he was born at Sunlaws Lodge, so it looks like they were settled there by then.

Colin Cumming of North Berwick in East Lothian, a fellow descendant of William and Margaret Lillico, has told me that his grandmother (Isabella Mather, born 1873, daughter of Jane Mather, nee Lillico) spoke of going on holidays to Sunlaws Estate, where her grandfather (ie William) was head gardener.

I can tell you what became of Elizabeth... she did indeed thrive. In September 1872, at just 16, she married Andrew Dryden, a domestic coachman, in Kelso. In 1883, they migrated to Queensland, Australia, with four of their five children (2-year-old son James died of measles while the ship was quarantined off the coast at Townsville and he was buried on Magnetic Island), arriving in Townsville on 24 October. They settled in Brisbane and had seven more children (poor Elizabeth!) She died on 18 December 1904, aged 48.

Thank you very much for this information, Lesley.

Regards,

Rachel
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Sunlaws on Saturday 04 August 18 08:21 BST (UK)
 Great to know the story had a happy ending! The 'bare, cold and comfortless dwelling' had a slight advantage over many of its neighbours in that in the 1861 census the Lillicos are recorded as having 2 rooms with windows whereas many of the cottages in Heiton had only one. (They could, of course, have moved to better house between 1856 and 1861.) The east lodge was demolished, but the head gardener's house still stands, as does the school in Heiton (now a private house) which your great-great grandmother would have attended.

Regards,
Lesley
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: terianne on Friday 26 October 18 13:38 BST (UK)
Brisgirl (Rachel)

Hello cousin

My Gr Gr Grandmother Agnes Lillico's (born Heiton 1824) family are from the Sunlaws estate area

Her parents were William Lillico and Mary Hardie and grandparents were Thomas Lillico and Jane Robson

Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: Brisgirl on Friday 26 October 18 14:00 BST (UK)
Hi Terianne,

Nice to meet you, cousin :) Your 3 x great William was the younger brother of my 4 x great John. Sunlaws seemed to feature quite prominently in the lives of the Lillicos. It must have been a major employer of people in the local area.

Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: terianne on Friday 26 October 18 22:51 BST (UK)
Since sunlaws estate has been incorporated into the dukes land we don't here much about it especially since the big house became the Roxburgh hotel I visit heiton quite regularly only a few miles from me the Lillico's do appear to have a had a lot on contact within the estate my William was born at crailing parish just along the road from the estate

You probably know this already but Margaret  your William's mother died at sunlawshill and was a housekeeper  both Margaret and John are buried in Roxburgh cemetery  and married at Wilton their children were born in various locations Thomas,Andrew were born at Wilton Jane at Eckford William at Heiton and john at Roxburgh
Title: Re: sunlaws, do you know where?
Post by: MissBrodie on Saturday 28 August 21 20:10 BST (UK)
Hi Terianne et.al

My Great Great Great Grandmother was also Agnes Lillico (born 1824, Heiton).

Thanks everyone for the really interesting and useful posts on Sunlaws.