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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: nicwnacw on Saturday 28 April 07 21:03 BST (UK)
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having received a great deal of help with the Fenn side of the family I am hoping for some on the Honeywell side. So far have my G father Ernest Claude Honeywell b 1902 m to Winifred Henrietta Fenn, his father was Alfred b 1869 and mother Laura Pitt b 1871. Ernest had sisters Lydia b 1904 and Josephine b 1906. Family lore has it that Josephine was institutionalised in the 30's somewhere in south london (possibly Dulwich) an aunt and my G father used to visit her there. Also supposed to be some children from Lydia.
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Hi Nicwnacw,
I don't know if you have the 1901 census for Alfred or not but this is the only Alfred Honeywell I could find in Hampshire, his wife's name may be an error but it is very clearly Louisa on the sheet
5 Art Mery Terr, Portsmouth, Southhampton, Hants
Alfred Honeywell Head M 31yrs Carter on farm b. Portsmouth, Hants
Louisa Honeywell Wife M 30yrs b. Portsmouth, Hants
Eva Honeywell Dau 3yrs b. Portsmouth, Hants
Do you think this is them?
Jenny
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looks life Alfred may have been a soldier in his 20's
1891 census - Barracks, Ipswich, Suffolk
Alfred Honeywell Soldier S 24yrs Driver b. Portsmouth, Hants
and your Laura Pitt appears to be a servant in Portsea
1891 census - 1 Herbert Terr Welch, Portsea, Portsmouth, Hampshire
John Egremont + family
Laura Pitt Serv 20yrs S General Domestic Servant b. Portsmouth, Hants
Hope this helps :)
Jenny
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And with his family in 1881:
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Laura is boarding though, probably with her brother:
You probably already have these but just in case ;)
Jenny
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Sounds like them but on Ernests Birth Cert parents are Laura nee Pitt and Alfred E, have found other children
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Thanks for all that I am confused by the Louisa, I have Laura Haneywell nee Pitt remarrying an Ashcroft, maybe they divorced and he re married to someone called Louisa/e
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Also I think the address is Artillery Terrace as that is what is on birth cert for Ernest
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The census definately reads Louisa but maybe the enumerator wrote it down wrongly? The address is probably Artillery Terrace as it was very light.
I couldn't find a Louisa Pitt on the earlier census returns so it probably is Laura mistranscribed as Lousia. Do you have Alfred and Laura's marriage cert? and also when do you have her remarrying?
Do you need the earlier census returns for Alfred's family or Laura's?
Jenny
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Divorce was very expensive and very uncommon amongst people like Laura and Alfred. A private Act of Parliament was needed. I see a death for an Alfred E Honeywell in Portsmouth in 1911 aged 41. Laura apparently remarried in 1914 - kosher then!
Nell
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Marriages Jun 1914
Honeywell Laura Ashcroft Portsmouth 2b 915
Marriages Sep 1918
Honeywell Laura E A Redmon Portsmouth 2b 1396
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We have had contact with a family called Redman and their family names seem very similar to the Honeywell line Laura, Josephine and Lydia all run through the family, could just be that they were common names at the time but one of the Redmans was married to a Honeywell
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Must be a mistranscription on the census then as it appears they married as below:
Marriages Jun 1893
Honeywell Alfred Ernest Portsea 2b 851
Pitt Laura Portsea 2b 851
Jenny
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The second Laura is probably Alfred and Laura's daughter born in 1898.
Nell
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oh, I see
Births Mar 1898
HONEYWELL Laura Eveline A Portsea 2b 501
That explains the daughter Eva on the 1901 census!
Jenny
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Laura Honeywell daughter to Ernest and Laura b 1898 married a George Redman. I am not sure which marriage from BMD belongs to Laura Pitt - maybe she was very unlucky and married Ashcroft and got widowed again then married Redmon/Redman
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Of course I should have thought of that - duh!
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Can anyone go back on Alfreds dad we have his mum Ann on the census as head of household dad presumably dead or working away?
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The second marriage is her daughter:
Marriages Sep 1918
Redman George Honeywell Portsmouth 2b 1396
Stock Elizabeth E Goddard Portsmouth 2b 1396
the 1914 marriage is the mother Laura
Marriages Jun 1914
Ashcroft Edward S Honeywell Portsmouth 2b 915
Honeywell Laura Ashcroft Portsmouth 2b 915
Jenny
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I'll have a look now
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Mum is particularly interested in her Aunt Lydia she is convinced she had a daughter Josie (Josephine?) and a son all living in London in the 1930's
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1871 census - 8 Stamshaw Lane, Portsea, Portsmouth
Thomas Honeywell Head M 43yrs Labourer Gen b. Downton, Wilts
Ann Honeywell Wife M 37yrs b. Downton, Wilts
Sarah Honeywell Dau U 17yrs Servant out of work b. Downton, Wilts
William Honeywell Son 15yrs Labourer out of work b. Rexo Jonion Island BS
Harriet Honeywell Dau 8yrs Scholar b. Portsea, Hants
Frederick Honeywell Son 6yrs b. Portsea, Hants
Richard Honeywell Son 3yrs b. Portsea, Hants
Alfred E Honeywell Son 1yr b. Portsea, Hants
Jenny
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The birthplace for son William had BS (british Subject) after it but it was difficult to read, must be over seas somewhere??
Jenny
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Father is recorded in the workhouse in 1881:
Union Workhouse Portsea Island, Hampshire
Thomas Honeywell Married Pauper 54yrs General Labourer b. Downton, Wiltshire
Jenny
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According to Mum her dad said his family were of Romany stock, her mother claims he father was an admiral but I think we discovered that he was AB RN (Fenn/Honeywell posts). I think the link with the Redmans is a valid one. Any help on mums aunt Lydia?
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OK thanks can I have a history lesson then? didn't the whole family go to the workhouse? or would he have volunteered to go to cut down expenses?
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I have found an Onion Island on Google, it appears to be a small island off the coast of Canada in Barclay Sound seems a bit improbable ould the child be a nephew?
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The sound was explored and named in 1787 by Captain Charles William Barkley of the Imperial Eagle, a British Trading vessel sailing under Austrian colours. Barkley was accompanied by his 17-year-old bride, Frances, the first white woman to see British Columbia.
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Don't know about workhouse rules, but maybe someone else will be able to help :-\
This is the family in 1861 though
Stamshaw Common, Portsea, Portsmouth
Thomas Honeywell Head M 33yrs Labourer b. Downton, Wilts
Ann Honeywell Wife M 27yrs b. Downton, Wilts
James Honeywell Son 9yrs Scholar b. Downton, Wilts
Sarah Honeywell Dau 7yrs Scholar b. Downton, Wilts
William Honeywell Son 5yrs b. Louisa Island
John Honeywell Son 3yrs b. Portsea, Hants
Thomas Honeywell Son 10mths b. Landport, Hants
Don't know about Romany stock but they did move around a bit and had lots of kids ;)
Jenny
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It was a bit clearer this time, definately a son but Louisa Island??
Better google that!
Jenny
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Louisa Island off the coast of Canada doesn't seem to have been time to go there have a baby and get back in time to have the next one in England?
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Long Island (NY) also used to be called Louisa Island so seems to be somewhere in the Americas
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Hey found Thomas on the 1851 census:
Borough, Downton, Wiltshire
Samuel Newman + family
Thomas Honeywell lodger U 22yrs Seaman Royal Navy b. Downton, Wilts
There you go!
Jenny
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There is something written after Louisa Island on the 1861 census, ancestry have it as Paxo, does that link in with either USA or Canada?
Maybe he was still into shipping then and hadn't settled into a Labourers life ;)
Jenny
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Brilliant I have found a really good web site re workhouses - has the rolls of staff and 'inmates' broken down by county. Plus all the law rules etc
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
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Good on you ;)
Paxo by the way is an island in the Mediterranean, so a bit closer to home maybe?
Jenny
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There were 7 years between William and his nearest sibling so maybe Mum dad and eldest child went off to louisa Island and then came back later
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He has a sibling 2 years either side of him, one in Wiltshire one in Portsea, so maybe not :-\
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Royal Navy attacked Paxos (nr Corfu) in 1814, so maybe we still held it in the later 1800's if he was still a sailor I suppose it's possible he went off (Thomas) and brought back a child? Seems unlikely to me but different times - who knows? Or it could be a relations child that he has taken in?
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Got Thomas with I suspect his father and sister in 1841
Downton, Wiltshire
James Honeywell 45yrs Chair? Maker Not of county??
Thomas Honeywell 10yrs of this county
Sarah Honeywell 10yrs of this county
The younger siblings in 1861 may have died before 1871 I suspect. Definately says son...maybe his wife travelled with him, maybe he was stationed there?
Jenny
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Paxos was taken by the British in 1814 and given back in 1864, looking to see if I can find the ships that went etc
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well that fits with the time frame, William would be born abt 1855/56.
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Just for completeness, I checked the 1871 census for Laura Pitt's family....assuming of course that the James Pitt with her in 1881 is her brother ::)
1 Hunsbury St, Portsea, Portsmouth, Hampshire
Harry C Pitt Head M 24yrs Plasterer emp 1 man b. Portsmouth, Hants
Mary A Pitt Wife M 21yrs b. Portsmouth, Hants
Harry C Pitt Son 5yrs b. Portsmouth, Hants
Mary A C Pitt Day 3yrs b. Portsmouth, Hants
James Pitt Son 1yr b. Portsmouth, Hants
Jenny
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Actually revise that, the family shows up in 1881 with James in tact :-[
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I will look again!!
Jenny
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Thank you very much indeed this is without any shadow of doubt the most helpful website I have ever found.
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Glad I can help, everyone here has helped me so much in the past ;)
Having issues with James Pitt though, all the James Pitt's b. abt 1870 are turning up in 1881 with their respective families. I have found one that is 3 in 1871 and can't find any of his family yet in 1881 so possibly him.....will get back to you
Jenny
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Need to find out general historical stuff - did the wives go with the men? I find that a bit unlikely but possible maybe as cooks or similar. Have found the Governor of the Island was Percy Simpson
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Might be best to ask on the Armed Forces pages, they may know what the practice was.
I am giving up on James Pitt I think, can't find hide nor hair of him at the moment and my eyes are needing toothpicks to hold them open!!
Wish you luck with the search :)
Jenny
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Thanks this is very addictive - Mums idea she knows so little about her family and at 72 she wants to know everything. Good night
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Have donw a bit of research on Downton Wilts where Thomas came from, the local parish sent the poor to Canada in the early 1800's. The location was the Great Lakes and Louisa Island was off Lake Huron. So maybe the birth was in Canada and not Paxos.
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Hi nicwnacw....Don't know if this is any use to you but i have a photo of a grave(albeit not very clear) from Kingston Cemetery in Portsmouth of a... A Honeywell,Chief Petty Officer RN 460913(i think)...HMS Victory,27th April 1916?.If you wanna look let me know,but like i said it's not very clear and it may be just coincidence
Steve
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Hi Steve
I do have an A Honeywell and the dates are looking about right can you e mail to me?
Thanks Nicwnacw (sandra)
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Hi Sandra... you'll have to PM me your email address.....don't put ur email on this thread,otherwise i can put it on this thread and maybe some of our wonderful restorers can do something with it ;)
Steve ;)
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Hi everyone
Have had a lot of success with this branch of the family, but I do have a few stragglers if anyone can help I would be grateful:
Edith Honeywell b 1890 m Sep 1909 to either Robert Henry Lee or Henry Francis Waight.
John Honeywell 1858 m 1880 to Sarah J Wilkins from fareham no trace of any children James d 1910 and Sarah in 1912.
Annie E Honeywell b1879 m 1899 to either david James Lawrence or William Shooter
Ellen E Honeywell b 1880 m 1902 William Crocker or Robert Hatton
James Honeywell born Downton 1852 m Annie E from Portsmouth 1881 census, with kids James 5, William 4 Ellen 1 Annie 2 Lottie (lotty) 2 months. in the 1891 census I have the same kids but with dad as Frederick Honeywell (James had a brother Fred) plus Kate 3 and Edith 1. trying to work out if Annie and Fred were married and if so was Fred James' brother?
All help gratefully received. Trying to get a book together on all this for Mum for christmas.
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Hi Sandra..did you get photo?was it any use to you?If not do you want me to put it up for restoration?
Steve :)
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Hello Steve
No I didn't get it - I did send a message at least I thought I did, all this research is frying my brain! Can you put it on the site please I have a couple of likely candidates for who it could be.
Thanks Sandra
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Ok will put it on the restoration page to see if someone can improve it :)
Steve :)
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Hi Sandra..it's now on the photo restoration page,hope it's useful
Steve :)
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;D ;D ;D Brilliant got the piccie. Now got to find out if he was one of my Honeywells
Thank you Sandra
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Hi
I have sorted out the James/Frederick situation and found the family of John and sarah. No luck yet with deciding who married who though
Nicwnacw