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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Hutchin_Graham on Saturday 05 May 07 18:00 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am researching the family of my 5 x Great Grandmother, Catherine Graham 1754-1838. She was the only daughter of Dr. Robert Graham DD, of Netherby. Any and all info would be of great help in fleshing out the bones of my ancestors.
I am already obliged to Bob Graham for some info, but I guess I'm just greedy and incredibly fascinated by my illustrious forebears.
Hope someone can help :-)
Bye for now,
HG
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Hi Hutchin,
Are you named after one of "Lang Wills" sons?
Is the Catherine that you are descended from the one that had brothers, Charles, James, William & Fergus? The children of Robert Graham and his wife Frances Graham, born Wath, Yorkshire, 17th May, 1731?
I have quite a lot of information on the family from Nertherby and other Graham's related to them who are scattered along the Esk and other parts of Arthuret Parish.
Regards, Bruce (in New Zealand)
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Hi Bruce,
Yes I am descended from that Catherine b.1754-1838.
She married Sir Thomas Garforth of Steeton Hall, Yorkshire and had a daughter, Olivia b.1790-1847(my 4 x Great Grandmother).
I am descended from Olivia's marriage to Lister Ellis b.1778-1828
No, Hutchin is just a username that I always use on Forums. ;)
I am, in fact an Ellis.
Hutchin Graham was a Border Reiver, who is credited with being the first person to use the term "Blackmail", in describing one of his activities.
Bye for now,
Hutchin ;D
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... the one that had brothers, Charles, James, William & Fergus? The children of Robert Graham and his wife Frances Graham, born Wath, Yorkshire, 17th May, 1731?
Hi Bruce, I am interested in her brother William ... I am looking for Capt William Graham of the 65th Regt of Foot whose monument is still standing in the church St. Mary on Paddington Green, London. He died 24 Nov 1792 aged 28 years, leaving his only surviving child, Robert Charles, and his widow, Lavinia Sally Anne. For several reasons I strongly suspect him to be of the Graham of Netherby. His widow is my ancestor Lavinia Sally Ann, née Harffy. Do you have more information about this couple, especially place and date of marriage? They had a daughter Lavinia Frances, born 1791.
Wish you a wonderful time in Cumbria - I went there in 2001 and loved it.
Regards, Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
Captain William Graham's will does name Sir James Graham and the Rev Fergus Graham of Netherby as his brothers, you can find it on documentsonline:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline
William baptised at Arthuret (from the Arthuret BTs)
June 8 1764 Bapt. GRAHAM Willm. son of the Revd. Mr Graham of Netherby
cheers
Bridget
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Thank you Bridget, you helped me a lot!
:) :) :)
Elizabeth, from Germany
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Hi Elizabeth,
if, after getting Capt. William Graham's Will, you feel the need to get his Father Rev.Robert Graham DD.'s Will (dated 1781), I already have it and If you are not very good at 18th Century Paleography, I am almost finished transcribing it and can send you the transcription via Email
I also have Robert's widow Frances Graham's Will (dated 1801) and Robert's Grandfather Sir George Graham's Will (dated 1657), if you want those transcriptions (havn't quite finished them yet). Anyway, let me know if you want them, after all we must be Cousins ;D
Regards,
Hutchin.
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Hi Hutchin,
Thank you very much. I received and transcribed a download of Capt. Wm. Graham's will last night ;D
I don't think we are cousins, because William Graham was not my ancestor, so neither was Robert or Frances. The story is a bit more complicated. William Graham was married to Lavinia Sally Ann (née Harffy) whom I have been trying to trace for years now. After his death she married Lt. Robert Cooper of the Royal Engineers who died in Quebec, Canada, in Jan. 1799. Their daughter Catherine Johanna Louisa Cooper was baptized in Arthuret, September 1799. In 1811 Lavinia Sally Ann married Francis Dubourdieu, also of the RE, and went with her third husband and her daughter to Germany (Stade, Hanover) where her daughter married a Hanoverian officer of old nobility and thus became my ancestor. Lavinia Sally Ann died in 1853 in Germany, aged 80, 2 years after her daughter.
This Lady has always been very mysterious ... having had three husbands, three christian names, but no maiden name, no parents ... When I began researching, she was known by the name of Dubourdieu; Rumour had it that she was a "Lady Graham"; her second husband must have been a Mr. Cooper as that was his daughter's name; and that was about all. Only recently I learnt that her will can be found in a German archive; in this her maiden name is mentioned as Harffy. I still haven't seen it as it can not be obtained on the internet. And I still do not know where and when she married Wm. Graham or where she came from.
As the young widow (born about 1772) had her daughter from the 2nd marriage baptized in Arthuret in 1799, I think that 7 years after William's death there were still (probably fairly good) relations between her and her first husband's family, the Graham of Netherby (as only now confirmed through Bridget's help :)) For this reason I should be really glad if you could have a look at the 1801 will of Frances Graham. Every hint to William, his widow and son will be of great interest. Rev. Robert Graham's will might shed a light on Capt. Wm. Graham's situation, too. (He must have been really well off. A thousand pounds in case of remarriage looks like an awful lot of money. So does a hundred pounds for mourning.)
Although we may not be cousins, your informations might be interesting for me, too. E-mail me at e_roeder(at)web.de. Of course, I can send you my transcription as well.
On Saturday we are leaving for our holiday in England. Although not Cumbria, this time.
Cheers
Elisabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
If you search in google books
http://www.google.co.uk/books
for Harffy, there is a full view book of the Adventures and Recollections of Colonel Landman.
This includes a page about the death of a Mr Cooper of the Royal Engineers, and a reference to his widows parents "Dr and Mrs Harffy of Amherstburgh in Upper Canada"
Sounds like the same lady, though i couldn't see a date mentioned, and i don't know how accurate the Colonel's recollections were!
cheers
Bridget
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Bingo! That's her!!!
Lavinia Sally Ann Harffy, at the age of twenty widow of Capt. William Graham, 7 years later widow of Lt. Robert Cooper, going back to Cumbria (while pregnant), most probably to see her Child, little Robert Charles Graham ... from Canada to England to Canada to England, from there to Hanover - what a life she has had :o
The year is 1799 (p. 61 in the book). I knew from the History of the Corps of Royal Engineers that my Lt. Robert Cooper died in Quebec in Jan. 1799; and now we have an eyewitness and a friend who confirms some of my theories ... and the poor woman now has parents, and the game goes on ... puzzle pieces falling into place :)
I have a cousin - no, not you, Hutchin ;) - who is very ill and whose greatest joy is doing some armchair genealogy. He has been hoping to learn about Lavinia Sally Anne for years. Tomorrow I shall make him happy for a while and give him things to ponder over while we stroll through the south of England ;D
Bridget, you made my day! Thank you for your invaluable help!
yours
Elisabeth
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Hi Hutchin,
I have just this night started research on a Catherine Tobin, nee Ellis, wife of Sir Thomas Tobin of liverpool who lived at Ballincollig, Cork Ireland from 1835 died 9/1/1881 and is buried nearby.
Now Catherine Tobin, according to the Dod book on peerages, was the daughter of Lister Ellis of Crofthead, Cumberland and the granddaughter of the late (1855) Thomas Baines Garforth of Steeton Hall Yorkshire.
That Thomas Baines Garforth according to your research and others, seems to have married Catherine Graham, had a daughter Olivia who married Lister Ellis whose daughter Catherine married Thomas Tobin. They had one son Arthur Lionel born in Ballincollig 7/8/1837. he died at war.
Catherine Tobin nee Ellis was a prolific travel writer and illustrator. If you have anything by her sell it. It reaches prices of £600 stg.
It would seem that you as an Ellis is descended from the same line.
Thomas Tobin was owner / manager of the Ballincollig Royal Gunpowder mills from 1835 onwards. I was involved in writing and publishing a history of same and thought that Catherine was a lot more educated etc and much more interesting.
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Hi Clonagh,
thanks for the update, good hunting with your research.
If you get any interesting stuff on Lister and Olivia or their Daughter, or Olivia's parents, I would love to hear about it ;)
Bye for now,
Hutchin.
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Many years ago I lived in a house called Netherby and so took an interest in Sir Walter Scott's poem
= O young Lochinvar is come out of the west
Through all the wide border his steed was the best etc.
The relevance of this poem is its later reference to the Grahams of Netherby Hall!
It's a good poem.
BGB
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Hi Hutchin
I was hoping you would be able to help. I am researching my family tree and came across this discussion through google.
I have found that I am related to Rev Robert Graham.
I was hoping you would have more info on this tree.
A brief description of my tree. Catherine Graham's daughter Olivia Garforth married an Ellis and I am further down that tree.
Many Thanks
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Hi,
Which of the Ellises are you descended from?
I am a direct descendant of Olivia's Husband Lister Ellis.
Hutchin is just a username that I always use on Forums.
I am, in fact an Ellis. If you could supply me with an Email address,
I could send you all kinds of stuff on both the Ellises back to abt. 1650 AD, the Grahams back to about 1550 AD
and the Garforths, back to about 1400 AD
Catherine Graham is what's known as a " Gateway Ancestor". Through her tree,
you are related to Kings of Scotland, England, Ireland, Wales, and nearly
all of the crowned heads of Europe. With an Email address, I can send you
a Gedcom of nearly 2,000 people. Chiefs of Scottish Clans, Infamous Border Reivers, thieves, murderers, all sorts.
Bye for now,
Hutchin
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Hi
I am descended from Lister Ellis born 1813 son of Olivia Garforth and Lister Ellis.
My email address is steab84ATyahoo.co.uk, that sounds like a lot of very interesting info there!
Would be very grateful if you could send it on
Thanks!
Moderator comment - Email amended to show AT not @ in accordance with rootschat policy
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Hi Hutchin and everyone,
There is a story in my family that Harriet, or Harriot, Graham (b. abt. 1780 d. before 1826 at Hoare Abby, Cashel, Ireland) was the daughter of Major Graham the cadet in the family of Grahams of Netherby Hall who must have moved to Ireland(Convamore Castle).
Cork Examiner, Monday Evening, November 26, 1855, page 3:
On the 19th inst, at Hoare Abbey, near Cashel, the residence of her son, in the 76th year of her age, Harriet, relict of the late Joseph Reali, Esq., of Ballyclough, Fermoy, and daughter of the late Major James Graham, formerly of Kilmore, in this county.
That Index of marriage license bonds for Cork and Ross shows Joseph Reali married Harriott Graham in 1796.
Apparently Major Graham was the youngest son of Sir Graham of Netherby Hall in Cumberland, England. Major Graham of Convamore Castle, Co Cork, was a cadet of the Netherby Grahams.
Can anyone verify this information and/or add to it? I am hoping to be able to find the link to Sir Graham and who exactly he was.
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Hello Reali-Graham,
Harriet ( of the Cork Examiner death notice)was my Gt-Gt-Gt-Grandmother. I have copies of notes that contain some of the details re Convamore Castle etc. that you mention. This may be a circular thread as for all I know the info came from you originally!! I am definitely descended from Harriet though. Would love to chat with you further. I have a copy of Joseph Reali's will which has some intriguing references to an amount of money loaned by Honourable Somebody - can't quite decipher. So maybe we can clear some things up.
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Hi
Very interested in Harriot Graham and Reali as my family Alexander Macnab married with Eliza Reali in Ireland in 1821.
Please contact me.
Trish
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Hi there.
I am very VERY interested in this Reali / Graham information. I am currently trying to trace my ancestors back like many of you. I have a Reali family bible that has been passed down through the generations. Here is a piece of writing from this family bible, written by a descendant at the late end of the 1800 Century. He talks about the first Reali that left Italy for Ireland.
" The first Reali of the Irish branch was born in Italy; when quite a young man, he was converted and became a Protestant. One of his Uncles was a Roman Catholic Bishop and he was very indignant. Young Reali’s Estate was confiscated, and he feared being tried by the Inquisition, therefore obtained a post as tutor to a youth whose parents wished to travel. They went first to Paris, where Reali met an Irish gentleman who invited him and his pupil on a visit to his home in Co. Limerick. Reali made friends and through their influence became Land Agent to Mr. Oliver of Castle Oliver, Co. Limerick. Reali married a Miss Graham. Their son became Land Agent for the Barry family of Ballyclaugh, Kilworth, Co. Cork, and also leased a farm at Ballyclaugh, the date of Lease being 1747. (Date supplied by R. Reali, son of Joseph Reali.) "
I have managed to put a Reali family tree together and have records of various Reali's from 1806 onwards so not sure which R. Reali supplied the date above, as I have records of many R Reali's!!
Now the family bible draws a complete blank, from the time the first Reali came to Ireland (estimated around the early 1700's, up untill 100 years or so after.
We don't know the Christian name of the first Reali that came to Ireland. We don't know the Christian name of Miss Graham. We don't know when or where they got married. We don't know what children or grandchildren any of these people had.
I'd be very interested to see ANY information relating to this Reali/Graham thread. Please please contact me at ..
Moderator Comment: Email address removed to avoid spamming etc. Please use our personal message system. New members need at least two posts to avail themselves of this facility so click reply and add another one and it should work.
I'd also be able to supply any information if needed.
Thanks,
Ross Harrington
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Hi there Ross,
the info in that family bible of yours matches with my family! Joseph Reali (a copy of whose will I have) and Harriet Graham's youngest daughter Catherine came to Australia in 1840's and it is from her that I am descended.
The info in the bible just may have some generation details skipping a bit. I think Gaetano Reali may be the earliest fellow to Ireland. There are records of possibly him marrying first a Christiana McCarter in second half 1700's , then Elizabeth Riordan.
This Elizabeth I believe is buried with other family members including Joseph . My sister took photos of their graves and those of some other family members. All the details are packed in boxes at the moment.
Have just moved house, am new to rootschat and don't quite know how to use it, so I apologise for the slowness of reply. Trish, if you're reading this, Hello! we have communicated in the past but again slowness to reply on my part - due sadly to a number of losses amongst family and friends.
Would love to share all this Reali-Graham stuff but not sure how - let me know!
Mary Ann
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Hi Mary - Ann,
I did put my email address in the last post, but it appears someone took it out :-s.. apparantly there is a way I can message you through this site somehow.
Ross
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Hi
You click on the green scroll under Mary-Ann's name and follow instructions to send a personal message. It is our policy not to put any details of living people on rootschat as anything posted on here is in the public domain and can be found on internet search engines. Easy for spammers to pick it up and also clues for possible identity theft.
Regards
Andrea
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Found in the will of Rev John Brown 1766
I leave to Mrs Graham of Netherby in Cumberland, daughter of the late Lady Graham, who was the wife of my deceased Cousin Col; Brown, my diamond ring, being a large Rose Diamond, set round with Brilliants; in consideration of it having been the gift of Lady Graham to Me.
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Hello Ross,
I've just registered with RootsChat and am also interested in the Reali/Graham family. I am descended from Eliza Reali, daughter of Joseph Reali and Harriet Graham, and I believe that Eliza's grandfather was Gaetano Reali. I would be interested in any information you have about the Reali or Graham families and am willing to share information that I have collected. Recently I've returned from Italy where I was able to uncover some information about a Bishop Reali, born 1695 at Rome, who must have been Gaetano Reali's uncle. Look forward to your reply.
Mary
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Hi Ross and Mary
I just surfed in here while researching the Reali family of Lismount House, Co. Cork, Ireland.
I am writing an article on Lismount House - my interest is in the lost estate houses of Ireland.
You've added some interesting facts to my research so I thought I'd share what little info I have
Joesph Reali, below is presumably the son of Joseph Reali and Harriet Graham ???
Harriet Reali (GRAHAM) died, age 75, 26 November 1855 at Hoare Abbey, Cashel
Joesph Reali, a land agent, built Lismount House in Kilworth around 1850
(Land Agent for the Barry family of Ballyclaugh, Kilworth, Co. Cork?? )
He apparently built the house for his wife who suffered asthma and was advised to live on high, dry ground
Joesph Reali was formerly of Hoar Abbey, Cashel, he died on the 9th July 1885, and is buried at St Mary the Virgin's, Gloucestershire
(Hoar/Hore Abbey by the way is a huge abbey that appears to have been in ruins for centuries)
Redmond Reali, who had been born at Lismount on the 20th January 1859 inherited his fathers estate.
He is recorded on the 1901 and 1911 Census of Ireland
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000575193/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001932137/
Redmond Reali's only child, Vivian inherited the Lismount estate. She apparently emigrated to Scotland where she married Mr Paisley, a flour miller
Vivian Reali sold the Lismount estate in 1921 for £5550.
Cheers,
Tarquin
www.AbandonedIreland.com
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Hi Tarquin,
Thanks for your message and information about your project.
In my research I've found that Redmond Reali, son of Joseph Reali and Harriet Reali (nee Graham), had two sons Joseph Reali (c1828) and Redmond Reali (c1830), who appear to have lived around Lismount from perhaps the mid 1850's. Joseph Reali, son of Redmond Reali Snr., had three sons Joseph Reali (1852), Matthew (1853) and Redmond (20 Jan 1856). I believe that Joseph Reali (1852) is the one who died in Gloucestershire and that Vivien was the daughter of Redmond Reali (1856). For a time this Reali family also had interests in part of Hoare Abbey Estate near Cashel. They seemed to move between that property and properties around Fermoy where Redmond Reali Snr. was a Nurseryman of Ballyarthur and Land Agent to Capt. Barry (Slaters Dir. 1846). Hope this is helpful. I don't know anything about the history of Lismount House. Good luck with your ongoing research.
Mary.
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Hi relative,
I'm also descended from Catherine Graham's marriage to Rev Robert Graham (IF ancestry.co.uk is right and their daughter Olivia Garforth married Lister Ellis). I'm puzzled that Burke's peerage doesn't list Catherine as one of Rev Robert's and Frances Graham's children). Have you had any responses to your post?
Thanks,
Jo Welch (nee Ellis)
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Hi Hutchin Graham,
I'm also an Ellis (though married now) descended from Lister Ellis so we may well be cousins. Do you know for certain that Catherine was the daughter of Rev Robert Graham and Frances Graham? My little girls would LOVE to be descended from royalty - and she's my only chance!
Thanks,
Jo
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Hi Ross and Mary
I just surfed in here while researching the Reali family of Lismount House, Co. Cork, Ireland.
I am writing an article on Lismount House - my interest is in the lost estate houses of Ireland.
You've added some interesting facts to my research so I thought I'd share what little info I have
Joesph Reali, below is presumably the son of Joseph Reali and Harriet Graham ???
Harriet Reali (GRAHAM) died, age 75, 26 November 1855 at Hoare Abbey, Cashel
Joesph Reali, a land agent, built Lismount House in Kilworth around 1850
(Land Agent for the Barry family of Ballyclaugh, Kilworth, Co. Cork?? )
He apparently built the house for his wife who suffered asthma and was advised to live on high, dry ground
Joesph Reali was formerly of Hoar Abbey, Cashel, he died on the 9th July 1885, and is buried at St Mary the Virgin's, Gloucestershire
(Hoar/Hore Abbey by the way is a huge abbey that appears to have been in ruins for centuries)
Redmond Reali, who had been born at Lismount on the 20th January 1859 inherited his fathers estate.
He is recorded on the 1901 and 1911 Census of Ireland
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000575193/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001932137/
Redmond Reali's only child, Vivian inherited the Lismount estate. She apparently emigrated to Scotland where she married Mr Paisley, a flour miller
Vivian Reali sold the Lismount estate in 1921 for £5550.
Cheers,
Tarquin
www.AbandonedIreland.com
Hi Tarquin,
I loved your first book.
Hoar Abbey refers to Hoar Abbey farm, not the abbey itself. The Reali family in Tipperary also had Clonbonane House which was knocked down a few years ago and I am researching this house.
I wonder did the Reali family work for the Smith-Barry who had estates in Cork and Tipperary.
Vivienne Noel West Reali daughter of Redmond of Lidmount and Evelyn Maud West was an only child and she lost both parents in 1919 (mother died in January, father in may). She had married the previous year. I wonder if the Joseph who build Lidmount for his wife as you mention was Joseph Reali married to Frances Givens, daughter of Matthew Given of Clonbeg, Tipperary rather than the Joseph Reali (grandfather of same) who was married to Harriet Graham mentioned in this thread.
I would love to exchange information if you're willing. I am a researcher based in Tipperary.
Regards,
Cecile Mulcahy
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Hi there - just wondering if the folks who have the info about the Graham-Reali family, are still active, or can be reached? I believe Harriet Graham and Joseph Reali to be my 4x-great-grandparents, and am keen to get further information.
Best wishes,
GPH