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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: MegP on Saturday 04 December 04 08:13 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to establish whether the family story that my great grandmother, Rachel White (?nee Orr) was a descendant of William Orr is true. She appears to have been married and probably was born in New South Wales. She does not seem to be related to Hugh Harrison Orr who was a solicitor in Sydney and definitely an Orr relative. Does anyone know of others interested in this tree?
Cheers
Megan in Sydney, Australia
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Please excuse the possessive apostrophe in the subject line; not sure what "possessed me" to put that in. William Orr of Farranshane, County Antrim, was hung at Carrickfergus on 14 October 1797 for breach of the Insurrection Act.
Regards
Megan
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Megan - not this William Orr? I know the one who was executed had 5 children by the way but this one is a very colourful Orr.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080517034202/http://www.island.net/~rjbw/OrrPapers.html
Moderator Comment: Link updated 2014
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Although this relative of the William Orr who was hung passed through Australia I don't believe he had any children here. He and his wife, Ellen Killeen, didn't have any any children. I have the book by Robert Foy mentioned in this article, but still can't make the connection to my own family.
Yes, I mean the William Orr who had five children at the time of his death, and a sixth born postumously.
Regards
Megan
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Hi Megan, Just a little bit of information for you on William Orr of Farranshane.My husband lived in William's house Farranshane during the war 1940-1945.His father's uncle was married to William's great grandaughter Martha.We went home for a holiday a couple of years ago and visited William's grave at Templepatrick.We then went to see Faranshane.My husband showed me the entrance to the underground cave that they used for their get away to Donegore in those days.The old man who is the owner remembered my husband as a boy.
Actually William Orr's sword is in Australia.
Regards Jena
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Dear Jena
How wonderful to have been able to see that bit of history at Farranshane! I haven't seen any photographs of the buildings in recent years. I now have my great grandmother's death certificate and have confirmed that her mother was a Jane Orr. I am waiting on her death certificate to see if that assists. Do you know where in Australia Willim Orr's sword is held?
Regards
Megan
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Megan, if you send me your e-mail address by PM I will forward you on photographs of William's grave. His old house,(Farranshane) that my husband lived in during the war. Also the new home that was built, and the entrance to the cave.
Regards Jena
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Got your e-mail address Megan,will look the photographs out and send them soon.
Jena
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Megan
My name is Gillian Stewart. I have just started to research my tree on
My fathers side to be told that my G Grandma came from Ireland But
which part is unknown. All my grandfather can tell us is that she came
abt 1918 but talking which given her B/day according to my grandfather
was either the 12 or 24 Nov 1901. which would have made her 17/18
yrs old, but according to my uncle (dads older bro) she was 15yrs old
when arrived in Scotland. Her name is Mary Orr she Married a William
Stewart from Lanarkshire Scotland If this rings any bells with your Orr's
Could you let me Know.
Thanks for your time on reading this
Gillian Stewart & family
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Hi guys my names Michelle and Im from NSW Australia.
Im desperately trying to find out if Im a relation to William Remember Orr. My nans maiden name was Orr...her first names were Isabella Wilson Campbell and she was born in Belfast 1911.
The reason I think we may have a good chance of being related is I have found a printed book that was nans about William Orr and also have an original photo of his sword. I also spoke to dad the other night and he said that he remembers his grandfather, Samuel Orr, having the sword in his possesion and then passed it on to his son John(my great uncle), but has no idea where it went after that!
So im thinking....if we had it in the family then theres a very good chance he was a direct relative!
I would love love to know a) if we are related and b) where the sword is.
If anyone can help with any info it would be much appreciated!
Michelle :)
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Welcome to Rootschat. To find a connection you'll need to trace your Orr family back quite a bit further.
The 1901 and 1911 census are online- since your grandmother was born in 1911 I'm not sure if she'll be found in the census (taken Apr.1911) but if you know her parents' names you might find them listed in both census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search
There are other online resources but probably best to start with the census and then work back with your great-grandparents' marriage, etc.
We will probably be able to help you with some details once you find the family in census records but it may not be able to trace your Orr family far enough back to make a connection with this William Orr.
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Michelle,
In the 1911 census the family may be living at Spencer Street in Dock Ward Co. Antrim. There is a John Campbell Orr living with his parents Samuel and Mary Elizabeth. Should this be correct there is a marriage on 12 Dec 1904 of a Samuel Ward to a Mary E.G. Campbell in Macrory Presbyterian Church, Shankill, Belfast, Co. Antrim. Fathers were John Orr and Thomas Campbell.
Regards
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Wow thank guys this is amazing!
Yes thats definately them...Ive found the same info in the 1911 Census as well but couldnt then manage to find a marriage certificate.
Do you have a link to the marriage certicate details? Id love to see it.
Yeah I realise I may not be able to find a direct link but Im sure going to try and as I said, having the sword in the family has to be promising :)
Thanks again guys :)
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Michelle,
Speculating a little further I have found a marriege of Thomas Campbell and Mary Eliza Wilson on 12 Jul 1877 in Argyle Place Presbyterian Church, Shankill, Belfast. Of their many children two were Mary Eliza Campbell b 6 Apr 1878 and Isabella Wilson Campbell b 5 May 1885 both in Carnmoney Co Antrim. (Carnmoney is just to the north of Belfast)
Isabella died on 17 May 1910 and I wondered if your Isabella might have been named for her.
All records are available on the old family search web site www.familysearch.org
Records
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Oh wow thankyou! You have been so helpful! Yep I reckon thats them and yes i would say that nanny was named after her aunty.
You must have a knack for this type of thing because I checked out that website and could only find Sams birth details.
I need to find John Orrs parents now so I can get closer to finding a link.
Such a big challange though.
Thanks so much for your help again :)
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Although I just realised that the Mary is Mary Eliza instead of Elizabeth so either its not them or maybe we have the details wrong in our records???
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I'm a bit slow off the mark, and probably this is no use to you, but you mentioned Hugh Harrison Orr of Pymble.
Is he not in Bob Foy's book? 4th son of William Orr, attorney, of 'Hugomont' near Ballymena, and his wife Mary dau. of Robert Harrison. b. 1850; d. at Chatswood, NSW, 1916. He m. Margaret Moore at St Leonard's, Sydney, in 1892. Known issue, b. at St Leonard's:
1. Mary; b. 1895.
2. George; b. 1896
3. Philip Richardson Orr; b. 1898. Served in the last year of the Great War as a gunner with the 19th Aus. Inf. Bn, Field Artillery Brigade. m. at Chatswood 1927 Una, youngest dau. of John P.E. Meyninck and his wife Susan née Crane. She was b. at Moree, NSW, 1900.
Rather scant detail, I'm afraid. If you can fill in any more, please go ahead!
William was not a descendant of 'Remember' Orr, but from the same family.
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Hi Everyone, I'm going to try to find William Orr's house in Farranshane. Can someone give me the address? He was my grandfather, five generations back. Also, the name of the church where he and Isabella Greer were married in Antrim. Are his things on display anywhere in Northern Ireland. I'm very excited about this trip.
Tara Stoker, California
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Oh wow Tara how exciting!!!!!!
Im currently trying to find out if Im definately related to him or not. My nans last name was Orr and her ancestors are from Ireland. We also had Williams sword and sheath in the famliy at one point and think its still in Australia somewhere. Im on a quest to find it!!!
If you can wait til the weekend I can give you the details of the church and few more details about him as I have a book that was nans thats all about him.
So how does your connection work? Did one of his sons come out to America???
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I have the Remember Orr book. My grandfather, William Orr Mulligan, came to Canada with his siblings from Belfast Ireland. They disbursed the children throughout Canada because conditions were so bad in Ireland. I'm going to Ireland next Thursday so whatever information you could give me will be appreciated :)
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Hi, I just picked up a book (on New Testament Greek) that has the signature of William Orr Mulligan, Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada, Edinburgh August 1919. It's not a valuable book, but if it's your family member and you'd like to have it I'd be happy to send it to you for cost of the postage. Let me know.
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Hi Michelle
I am researching John Campbell Orr who was living with his father Samuel Orr and (I presume) his sister Isabel Wilson Campbell Orr in Burwood NSW Australia in 1933. Have you come across John in your research and is he the one listed in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 on Family Search as being born in the June qtr of 1905 in Antrim Ireland? John married Nancy Eames Weller in 1937 and later died in 1966.
Anne-Marie
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Hi Anne Marie,
Sorry the late reply :-\
John Campbell Orr was my great uncle because Isabella was my nan. Are you related to John? Im guessing that would be the same John you are talking about because they definitely lived in Burwood at one stage and yes I'm sure John married a nancy who died suddenly of a stoke??? he then later married or moved in with another lady...Elsie or something along those lines. Id love to see any info you have on John and the family and Im more than happy to share my information :)
Michelle :)
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Hi again,
I'm presuming you havent been on for awhile Anne-Marie??
So after a bit more research I have been able to obtain a transcript for John Campbell Orr born 1905 and died in Burwood in 1966 on the 31st July from myocardial infarction. He was 61 years old.
They immigrated to Australia in 1920 after his mum died on the 19th July 1916. His dad was Samuel James Orr and his mother Mary Elizabeth Gough Orr nee Campbell. His dad, Sam, was a fitter and turner and worked on the propellers for the Titanic. It was due to Marys death/sickness that he missed the maiden voyage and was spared his life.
They lived in Sydney for a bit with Sams mum Amelia who they apparently didn't get on with very well before Sam and Nanny(Isabel - Johns sister) moved to Goondah NSW, so Sam could work on the trains that took men to the Burrinjuck Dam while it was being built in the 1920s. I dont think John went with them though as their is no record of him living with them there.
He then married Nancy Eames Weller in 1937 in Rockdale. They had 3 children...Caroline who died from a stroke, Robert and Bruce. The boys would be in their late 60s/early 70's now if still alive??
John moved in with a lady called Irene Pauline Cranney after he divorced and was there until his death in 1966.
I would love to know how you are related to him or why you are in search of him so I hope you check this soon!!!
I also have quite a few pics of him and the family so would love to share with you if you are interested. Just send me your email and I can send them through.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Michelle :)
Hi Michelle
I am researching John Campbell Orr who was living with his father Samuel Orr and (I presume) his sister Isabel Wilson Campbell Orr in Burwood NSW Australia in 1933. Have you come across John in your research and is he the one listed in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 on Family Search as being born in the June qtr of 1905 in Antrim Ireland? John married Nancy Eames Weller in 1937 and later died in 1966.
Anne-Marie
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Hi Michelle,
Is MichelleS2 and Michelles the same person ???
I am getting bounced emails fro MichelleS
Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi Sarah,
Yes sorry that is me. I had to create a new profile because my previous email was no longer working.
I can send you my new email if you can't access it???
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Hi Michelle,
Ah ha ;D got you ! Not to worry, I will merge your two profiles into one.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Ok no worries, thanks Sarah :)
Have you been trying to send me something??
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Hello All,
I currently live at Farranshane and have seen an old sketch in a book about William Orr of his house before it was destroyed. I cannot see where the house would have been sited, but I see in this link Jena's husband used to live there, and provided some old photographs of the house. My great Uncle Sydney Mongomery moved to the farm circa 1953 (I am guessing after previous Orr's moved to Australia??) I would love someone to provide a photo of the old house so I can establish where it was sited. Can anyone help?
I cannot confirm if the old house was demolished to make way for the new one or it is actually one of the old farm outbuildings converted into a barn?
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Just to those looking for possible connections to William Orr there's a good Worldconnect project by Ted Marr worth checking out:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tedmarr&id=I20471
As has already been mentioned, William Orr had a cousin of the same name who was accused of rebel offences and sent off to Australia. He eventually made it back and married Ellen Killen. I am descended from two of Ellen's siblings: Edward and Jane.
Even back in the 1800s people seemed to be proud of a connection. Several of Ellen Killen's nieces and nephews were given the Orr name:
Orr McCausland
William Orr Wilson (who inherited Newgrove from his namesake)
two Ellen Orr Killens (one of whom was my gg grandmother)
By the way, where is Farranshane? I live near Ballyclare, so probably not a million miles away from wherever it is.
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By the way, where is Farranshane?
A townland in the civil parish of Antrim.
Just eastnortheast of Antrim town in this extract from the 1837 - 1842 6" mapping series:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,717398,887723,5,7
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Aha, thanks. That's just 4 townlands away from my Ferguson ancestors.
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Sorry to bump this old thread but I have been trying to do some research on William Orr also. I'm from Belfast and My mum always told me her family was related to William Orr I'm not sure how much it's been researched though. My Mother's surname is Crawford and My Mother's Grandmother's maiden name was Orr (Margaret I believe her first name was but will need to double check), she was Grandmother (My great Grandmother) from my Mum's Father's side.
That's all I know at the moment I'll need to ask my Mother about it more.
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^ Let us know when you find out a few more names and dates.
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His daughter Jane asked to be buried with her mother.....where is Williams wife buried? is it Templepatrick.
Also his daughter Isabella and family, does anyone know where they are buried please.
Regards Steve
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Found this marriage notice...
[Freeman's Journal, 6 Jan 1820]
On the 27th ult. in the Parish Church of Antrim, John Orr, Esq., of Harp-hall, to Wilhelmina, youngest daughter of the late William Orr, Esq., of Hurtetoot-house, in the county of Antrim.
Hurtetoot House is new to me, but I see looking at the map that "Hurtletoot" townland is next to Farranshane. So does this refer to William Orr the 'Rebel'? What's known about Harp Hall?
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I am searching for relatives to my gt-gt-gt Grandfather, Joseph Orr and his daughter Jane. I have no idea where Joseph was born but family legend has it that he was a relative (brother, cousin, it's not clear) of William Orr, so Co.Antrim is the most likely place. Following William's execution in 1797 he moved south to the area around Roscrea, Co. Tipperary. Roscrea is just miles from both Kings County (Co. Laois) and Queens County (County Offaly so his domicile could have been in either of 3 counties), his daughter Jane married Matthew Coughlan (or Coghlan) not once but twice, first in St. Cronan's C of I and the following day in St. Cronan's R.C. church. Their daughter Anne Coughlan was born around 1825. Can anyone help me with my search, please??
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If you are interested in Orrs in Co. Antrim I can recommend Donald Harman Akenson & W.H. Crawford "Local Poets and Social History: James Orr, Bard of Ballycarry", published in 1977 by PRONI.
James Orr was born in 1770 at Broad Island, Co. Antrim, and was a United Irishman as well as a folk-poet, writing his poems in broad Ulster Scots dialect. After the events of 1798 he escaped to America but returned to Ireland after an amnesty was declared. He settled at Ballycarry in Templecorran parish, Co. Antrim, and devoted the rest of his short life to writing poetry and drinking.
It's thought that Orr's parents were David Orr and Jane Catherwood of Broad Island, and if that's the case, James Orr fits into the Orr Pedigrees, a massive handwritten MS of Orr family-trees, mainly in Co. Down but also Antrim, which is kept in the Linen Hall library in Belfast. The MS was turned into a privately printed book by an American genealogist called Ray A. Jones and I have a copy.
James Orr of Ballycarry looks like a 4th cousin of my 3 x great-grandfather Archibald Petticrew, an Orr descendant who became a joiner in Belfast.
I don't know if William Orr who is the subject of this thread fits into the above-mentioned extended Orr family-tree, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't.
Harry
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Joe,
The 1821 census returns for the area still exists, Joseph is a steward living at Dungar Park with his wife Eliza and their children including Jane, the age given puts his birthdate around 1779. Matthew's family can also be found on the census returns, living at Killavilla (not sure if this is the correct spelling). Jane and Matthew married twice presumably because she was protestant and he was catholic. Under the reign of George II catholic marriage ceremonies were not recognised as legal for protestants, thus to legalise Jane's marriage and legitimise her subsequent children it was necessary for a protestant church service first. I have not been able to find anymore about the Orrs, though I did come across a Constable Joseph Orr around Clonmel, who was sentenced to 3 months hard labour for common assault in March 1840 (reported in the newspapers). Its unclear if this is the same person, I have not as yet come across a death for him, so I am not sure whether he stayed in the area or returned to the north. Hope this is of some help.
Michaela
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Hi everyone. I live in Antrim and have photos of William Orrs grave. There is an Alley Orr and a Frank Orr Mulligan on the headstone along with a William Orr plaque. Alley Orr died 1791, Frank died 1962.
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Hi All,
My g-g-g grandmother was Jane Orr, daughter of Joseph Orr who was (we have always believed) a son, a brother or at least a 1st cousin of William Orr, United Irishman hanged. She comes into my family history when she married my g-g-g-grandfather Martin Coughlan, of Roscrea in County Tipperary, Ireland. I have a copy of their marriage certificates, plural not singular because they married twice on successive days, first in the St. Cronan's Anglican church and the following day in St. Cronan's RC church. We have been told that Jane (and possibly her father) left Antrim after the execution of William. If anyone can shed any light on Joseph and his relationship to Joseph I would be very grateful. I understand Jane is buried near Roscrea and hope to identify a the graveyard and maybe even find a headstone over the next few weeks.
Gantly, Dublin, Ireland.
P.S. I never knew the origin of the name ORR: is it true that the English outlawed the name McGregor and many of those of that clan changed their names to Orr. Difficult and independently-minded lot those Scots Presbyterians...thank God! "Remember Orr!"
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Hi all,
One of my ancestors was Joseph Orr. He emigrated to Australia in 1840. This emigration record states that he was from Roscrea in Tipperary. I cannot find any information about Joseph and his family in Roscrea, so I thought I'd check here.
Has anyone come across this Joseph Orr in their research? He was probably born around 1817. He married a Priscilla (not sure of maiden name) prior to leaving for Australia in 1840.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers
Justin Orr
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Hi all,
One of my ancestors was Joseph Orr. He immigrated to Australia in 1840. This immigration record states that he was from Roscrea in Tipperary. I cannot find any information about Joseph and his family in Roscrea, so I thought I'd check here.
Has anyone come across this Joseph Orr in their research? He was probably born around 1817. He married a Priscilla (not sure of maiden name – perhaps Wail?) prior to leaving for Australia in 1840.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers
Justin Orr
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Hi Justin Orr, from your brief message, I'm fairly sure we are related. My father's family is from Roscrea, Co. Tipperary, both his parents were born there My grandfather, Joseph Gantly was a grandson of Jane Orr, daughter of Joseph Orr. There were not to many 'Jane Orrs, daughter of Joseph Orr' in Roscrea. Jane Married my G-G-grandfather Matthew Coughlan in 1829, he was born approx 1803. I spent some time last year looking for their graves in Dungar which is the townland associated with Joseph. There was also a Jane Orr living in Roscrea in 1901, may have been the same lady but she was unusually elderly if it is the same Jane. (*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
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. I look forward to hearing from you. Joe Gantly
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Samuel Orr, William Orr’s brother, is my 5th GG father.
Growing up, I was never especially attached to my Irish Ancestry. It’s been only in adulthood and loss that alive taken up an active interest in genealogy, especially my families after the passing of all the grandparents and great aunts and uncles. It’s been a fascinating trip into the past!
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Hi LRL,
What do you know about Samuel Orr? Who died he marry, where did he end up?
Gilby
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Hi LRL,
What do you know about Samuel Orr? Who died he marry, where did he end up?
Gilby
Do mean Samuel Orr, Williams father? Or Samuel, Williams brother? Samuel Sr died in Ireland. Williams brother Samuel left Ireland with his family (wife Mary Redmond) and immigrated to Canada, which is where he remained until death. His children split between Canada and the United States. Some of them went back and fourth in residence, it looks like.
The Orr men very much liked passing their names down to their sons. It gets confusing with so many Samuel’s (and later, Hugh and Gaylord, repeated several times). Much easier if you can look at it in tree format so you can follow the lines. Whew!
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If you've got information on them both then I'm interested both! How do you know Samuel Orr who married Mary Redmond was the brother of William "Remember" Orr?
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Hello All,
I currently live at Farranshane and have seen an old sketch in a book about William Orr of his house before it was destroyed. I cannot see where the house would have been sited, but I see in this link Jena's husband used to live there, and provided some old photographs of the house. My great Uncle Sydney Mongomery moved to the farm circa 1953 (I am guessing after previous Orr's moved to Australia??) I would love someone to provide a photo of the old house so I can establish where it was sited. Can anyone help?
I cannot confirm if the old house was demolished to make way for the new one or it is actually one of the old farm outbuildings converted into a barn?
R. H. Foy's book Remembering All the Orrs has a photo of your house with the caption, "Farranshane 1999. William Orr's old home survives only as part of an out-house behind the present-day home of Sydney Montgomery."
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I don't think anyone has posted the extract from William Fee McKinney's notebooks (T1013/2B p347) before so here it is:
Alley Orr d. 26 Jan 1791 aged 51
William Orr born 1766 died 14 Oct 1797
Isabella Greer born 1768
married August 1788
Samuel Orr born 2 Jun 1789, married Martha Wilson, died 19 Jul 1824
Jane Orr born 17 Mar 1791, married George Sloan
John Orr born 16 Feb 1793, married Eliza Jolevery, died in Longford
Allice Orr born 2 Jun 1794
Isabella Orr born 1 Aug 1796, married William Wilson
Wilmina Orr born 17 Apr 1798, married John Orr
The birth dates may infact be baptism dates. He goes on to mention:
Here lieth the body of Alley Orr who departed this life January 26, 1791 aged 51 years.
Names of John's 4 children: Eliz: Ctn [?], Wm, Edwd, Isabel: & John.
Sam's 3: James, Alicia Isa: & Wm.
I think William (Remember) Orr's father is recorded somewhere as Samuel Orr. Is "Alley" a possible nickname for Samuel, or is it his mother's name?
At the bottom of the page McKinney records the family of John Orr who married Wilhelmina Orr (the daughter of William Orr born after he was hanged):
Samuel Orr died 31 Mar 1807
married Ellen Harper
Fanny Orr married Henry McAnally
Ellen Orr married Matthew White ... to America
John Orr married Wilhelmina Orr
Mary Jane Orr married Thos. Craig
Margaret Orr born 1 AUg 1798
Alexander Orr born Aug 1803 died 28 Feb 1807
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Remembering all the Orrs :
the story of the Orr families of Antrim and their involvement in the 1798 Rebellion /
R.H. Foy.
ISBN: 090190595X
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I have from my ancestor Mary Ann Allen nee Orr a letter that mentions connection to William Orr, Samuel Orr, Daniel Orr and a Joseph Orr. Mary Ann Orr was the daughter of John Wesley? Orr (1798-?). Im trying to also found how my John Orr got over here to North America, as I am unable to locate a grave, census, birth, immigration or marriage record. He is however listed in the genealogy of John Walden Meyers, a famous UEL loyalist and spy as he married his granddaughter Catherine Bleeker (1801-1893). He is however listed on the marriage and birth records of his children and is listed as either Scottish or Irish and from Ireland or Scotland.
Here is the letter, that I found and which was not put up by me, not sure how my ancestors letter got here!
http://orrnamestudy.com/maryallen.htm
It might also give some insight to those seeking answers on a Hugh, Samuel, James, Joseph and Daniel Orr that are hard to locate without dates from the letter and also if you have any insight toward my John that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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That’s an interesting letter! Thanks for posting.
There seems to be some conflicting views on whether Samuel Orr who married Miss Redmond was a brother or nephew of William “Remember” Orr. Mary Ann Allen seemed sure her grandfather was a nephew, but the dates (and LRL20’s post above) might fit better with him having been a brother?
I think there are other researchers who know much more about this family – I’m just a curious onlooker.