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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: grammatj8 on Tuesday 15 May 07 21:33 BST (UK)

Title: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Tuesday 15 May 07 21:33 BST (UK)
Does anyone know if there is a rootschat for the Ukraine and Russian area.  Just a question.  Because you guys are all so helpful. 
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Tuesday 15 May 07 21:45 BST (UK)
Hi,

I don't know if there is a site anything like RootsChat anywhere else in the world, if you are thinking about the friendliness and helpfullness here.

There are forums for Eastern Europe, but we also have a board on RootsChat for Europe (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,135.0.html), where we are building up quite a lot of useful links, information and general expertise.

Have a look  :) :)

Maybe you'll find you can ask your questions there.

Good luck,
Bob
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Tuesday 15 May 07 22:42 BST (UK)
No I don't think that is what I want.  What I meant was lookups etc in the Ukraine, possible places where they left from.  Marriages, like for example I am looking for my grandfather and grandmothers marriage.  I have figured out they really didn't get married in Fort William, Ontario, canada.  So they must have got married in the Ukraine, only thing is I don't know what town.  That was why I thought people like these guys are very helpful. 
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: KarenM on Wednesday 16 May 07 00:38 BST (UK)
Hi gram,

Do you know when they came to Canada?  Maybe there is a clue on a passenger list?

Karen

PS  How's your son in law, heard he went into the wall.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 12:23 BST (UK)
news travels, apparently he is a little stiff so I have been told but otherwise okay.  He is supposedly going to try again this weekend at Sauble we will see.

As for do I know when they came to Canada.  It was roughly around 1910 - 1914 those parameters, because we know the oldest was born in 1914 in Fort William, They had a fire at the house so no personal records were left.  I am beginning to think maybe they got married in the Ukraine, as his brother did,  His brother became naturalized in 1920 then went back and married in 1921.  As for the ships, I have tried but I haven't come up with anything.  Mom thinks they may have landed in Quebec because Papa worked in the northern Quebec for a very short time.  So that is the history.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 16 May 07 12:40 BST (UK)
Hi grammatj8,

I will watch this thread with interest. That is a question I was also going to ask.

If you type "russian genealogy" into google, a few sites pop up. I have not yet investigated thoroughly, but so far all I have found is general information, and nothing like rootschat. So far I am confused. It seems you can pay for researchers but I'm afraid I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

There is a site for Russian surnames where people with the same name can post looking for relatives. I'll try to find the link for you.

PS> I think it might help if you speak Russian ....
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 16 May 07 12:52 BST (UK)
Some of my family were Volga Germans and there are records available. Do you know where the family might have lived? Also, it's possible the marriage took place on the way to Canada or even wherever they first landed.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 12:57 BST (UK)
not speaking the language doesn't help.  I have been told if I write a letter in Ukrainian I might get some kind of response, so I have the alphabet to do that with.  The town they came from I don't know  however a second cousin says she remembers her grandparents mentioning a name that sounded like Chernootzie.  However I also have found out there are many small towns around an area that could ?? be there. 
You make a valid point, marriage on the boat or when first landed.  It could be anything.  This side of the family is short on knowing anything about their family.  Mom didn't know her Dad had a sister and brother but again this is a second cousin that says she thought her Dad mentioned this.  Anyhow I'll stop rambling. 
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:10 BST (UK)
Sorry grammat, I could not find what I was looking for, however I did find this:
www.genforum.genealogy.com/russia/
- don't know if it be of any help.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:14 BST (UK)
thanks I will check it out. 
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: KarenM on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:17 BST (UK)
Hi gram,

Do you have them on the 1911 in Canada?  I know it's a little expensive, but you could order the 1940 National Reg. if you know where they were living.  

Karen

PS.  Glad he's ok, that wall is not forgiving.  We didn't do to good Saturday, fuel leak, when his foot was getting cold he thought he better come off the track, my eyes, nose and throat were burning frm the methanol holding the flashlight trying to find the darn leak.  ::)  
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: toni* on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:19 BST (UK)
What I meant was lookups etc in the Ukraine, possible places where they left from.  Marriages

if you find a site for this please let me know my grandfather was Ukrainian he came to the UK in WW2, i have an address for the records office in Kiev and i also have a form to complete to send of for his details but before he died he said that Germans (in the war obvs.) destroyed most of the information so i am not sure if they will have the details also you do have to pay for this service.

I haven't sent for his records yet as i don't have the money at present.

the form is in Ukrainian but i have managed to translate it using the Ukrainian / English online dictionary. i only have one small problem and that is the name part i have to translate his surname the English spelling into the Ukrainian spelling, i know the first 3 / 4 letters but it has 14 letters in his name. My Nan has a book of his with his name written in in Ukrainian but can she find it , no! i have asked my aunts / uncles too but they can only remember the first 4 letters also!

Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:21 BST (UK)
Karen, what is the national registry?  You see I can't find them in Fort William in 1911.  So maybe they weren't here then, When does the next census come out.  1914 first child born in Fort William.  

Sounds like you guys didn't fair so good either did you find the leak before or after you were high.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:24 BST (UK)
toni, I will check what I have and let you know.  You  have the same problem I have what is the name translated back into their language. 
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: toni* on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:29 BST (UK)
Thanks Gramm,
apparently if they were of Jewish Religion you can contact the Jewish Society and they may be able to help with records but my grandfather was of Greek Orthodox Religion!
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: KarenM on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:34 BST (UK)
The 1940 National Reg. was like a census, there was a form for woman and men.  I'll find the link and you can check it out.

Have you found the brothers naturlization papers?

What are your grandparents names?

Karen

Gram, before, but I think I still have a headache LOL, but the beer came out shortly after  ;D
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:35 BST (UK)
so was mine.  Maybe check with the Greek Orthodox head office church.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: KarenM on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:36 BST (UK)
Info about the 1940 National Reg.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,97590.0.html

Karen
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:42 BST (UK)
thanks Karen, yes I found Johan Kotchan naturalization in the government thingy.  However I can't find George who is my grandfather, nor Marie or Mary Medved, or Medwid, or spelling is the problem, and I didn't look for Iftimia Johan's wife to see when she got naturalized. Her maiden name was Wiksyck.
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 16 May 07 13:50 BST (UK)
So Karen, from reading about it, does it name the wife and children or just the number.  I am going to get the information where they lived in Simcoe Ontario at that time and then I might just pay the money to find out what I can.  Thanks again.  I also need to take a picture of the tombstone so that I can verify that he passed away back in 1977.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Wednesday 16 May 07 16:42 BST (UK)
Hi grammatj8,

I've "moved" you to the Canada board, to attract the attention of our Canada experts.

Good luck :)


grammatj8 and KarenM,

I've deleted the last two posts, as they concern living people.
Please use the private Personal Message (PM) system for any private information.

thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: kaja on Wednesday 16 May 07 21:41 BST (UK)
Does anyone know if there is a rootschat for the Ukraine and Russian area.  Just a question.  Because you guys are all so helpful. 

Don't forget that western Ukraine was once part of Poland. Some of your answers might be found there.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Thursday 17 May 07 04:18 BST (UK)
Hopefully these links will be useful.

Ukrainian Genealogy
http://www.infoukes.com/genealogy/

Ukrainian Genealogical Society
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukrgs/index.htm

Ukraine Genealogy Links
http://www.genealogylinks.net/europe/ukraine/index.html

Toronto Ukrainian Genealogy Group
http://www.torugg.org/

Ukrainian Web - Genealogy Research
http://www.ukrainianweb.com/genealogy_ukraine.htm

Ukraine Genealogy Family Search Service
http://www.rjstours.shawbiz.ca/family.htm

Ukrainian Genealogical & Historical Society of Canada
http://feefhs.org/ca/frgughsc.html

"Romanyk" Family - (Some good links)
http://www.romanyk.com/

Cyndi's List - Eastern Europe Genealogy
http://www.cyndislist.com/easteuro.htm

Janice
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: toni* on Thursday 17 May 07 10:19 BST (UK)
thanks for those links i will def. check them out. Ukraine was a country in its own right when my Gradnfather lived there, not sure about Gramms rellies tho'
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Thursday 17 May 07 12:05 BST (UK)
Yes, Janice, thank you so much for those links.  Maybe something will turn up.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Gene-ee-us on Saturday 27 September 08 18:55 BST (UK)
Have you tried the passenger lists leaving Britain for Canada? My grandparents came from the Ukraine (Russia then). Their port of departure was Hamburg, but they came to Halifax, Nova Scotia, via Liverpool. For some reason, it was much cheaper than going directly to Halifax or New York from Germany and many Eastern Europeans came to "Amerika" this way.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: jeffster on Sunday 28 September 08 07:58 BST (UK)
Here are a couple for Doukhobor relatives that I use:

http://www.doukhobor.org/

ONe half of my relatives came from Chortiza (which is in the Ukraine south of Kiev) there are some passengers list that pertain to that...once I find the link I'll hopefully remember to post it.  Another suggestion is most Mennonite (German ancestoral from Prussia/Ukraine/Russia) relatives are listed somewhat in what's called the G.R.A.M.A (??) you could possibly check your local Mennonite church to help that way.

Jeff
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Lisaw on Sunday 28 September 08 17:21 BST (UK)
Hi there,

Have you tried random acts of genealogical kindness? There is volunteers from all over the world. I didn't have any luck in getting the Russian volunteer to respond to me, but your luck might be better. There is also a lady who volunteers for Saskatchewan in the Yorkton area who has done alot of research into her family & now teaches about how to research your family from some of the areas mentioned in this forum.  I believe she has access to Doukhbor ship lists also. She is very knowledgeable.

Lisa
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 29 September 08 01:23 BST (UK)
What year was he thought to be born? any occupation known for the early years... when he first came to Canada

Quote
a second cousin says she remembers her grandparents mentioning a name that sounded like Chernootzie.
perhaps "Chernivtsi city"-  ( now in county of Chernivtsi Oblast, Ukraine / formerly N. Bukovina)

My ancestors started out as Italian...then they migrated to a German logging community in Bukowina,
( then was Austrian/Hungary occupied...I found a few "Austrian" & Galacian Medveds online)  ;D
where they all learned to speak German... in the 1920's it became split between Romania/Ukraine.
....after ww2 Romania was forced give up the northern part Bukovina to the USSR
It was like a football, it kept changing hands!


Here is a good explanation of why this might turn out to be the city they may have been from...see some
versions of the name...
Some of the names of the city: Chernivtsi in Ukrainian, Czernowitz or Tschernowitz in German, Cerna~uti in Romanian, Chernovcy or Chernovicy in Russian, Czerniowce in Polish, Csernovic in Hungarian, Tshernevits or Tshernovits in jiddis.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 29 September 08 01:29 BST (UK)
J.J. I will check on that, as my Great Uncle suggested they came from Ukraine, Davidivsee, Bokavina, Romania. Are they one and the same.  It was my cousin that suggested chervisti.  I also had found out that the Ukraine changed hands as often as we change underwear.  Not an easy thing to find out.  I certainly wished my grandparents had told me more and also told their children.  As my Mom knows less than me.  SHe is amazed at what I have found out which is not much.  Thanks J.J.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 29 September 08 01:37 BST (UK)
Have you found this site re: Medved?
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.medved/2.5.6/mb.ashx
also when searching for George the name may be  Yegor  Yuriy   Jerzy
( my inlaws always said "Yurko" was Ukrainian for George...but as they
weren't Ukranian I wouldn't take that to the bank....
With the ethnic diversity of the area, I am sure there are many more.... :P
(  ;D austro-hungarian-bukvinian)


so no idea around what year of birth we are looking for under immigration & if early enough, census ?

`````````````````````````````

Have you this marriage from later in the century?   25 February 1942-page 11  - Kotchan / Wooley
http://www.elginogs.ca/newsindexes/timesjournal/sttj1942janthrufeb.htm
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 29 September 08 01:41 BST (UK)
George Kotchan   Born February 19, 1888   Died March 6, 1978
George Kotchan married Mary Medwed       1913 approximately
Mary Medwed      Born June 5, 1895      Died March 6, 1966

They lived in Fort William until l928.  Then moved to Simcoe.
I can't find out for sure if they married in Fort William or not.  The church burnt down and the Friar didn't think he would be able to help.  My grandfather came over from the Ukraine with his brother, and we now that his brother went back and married his wife and brought her here.  I am thinking maybe George did the same. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 29 September 08 01:59 BST (UK)
Interesting Peter was my Mom's brother.  And I had the date I didn't have the place. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 02 October 08 06:52 BST (UK)
Well this may be a clue as to the place they worked, and might even be a brother...
so am posting it...as George may have named his son after a brother...
 
A Pete "Kuochan" or "Kutchan"... in Port Arthur ...hard to decipher the handwriting on the 1911 census...
but he was born 1881 / Austria / Polish / R.C.  / immigrated in 1907...works in a freight shed? with
many male immigrants from same....( This was very likely a Railway job )
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=56427
also a Medwid although not your family...but he works at the same place
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=56412
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Wednesday 15 October 08 06:09 BST (UK)
Here is a book in OurRoots. It mentions a Theodore "Kochan"

Ukrainians in Ontario
http://www.ourroots.ca/e/toc.aspx?id=9233

OurRoots
(lots of books about Alberta / Saskatchewan with the name of "Kochan")
http://www.ourroots.ca/

Janice
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Wednesday 15 October 08 06:21 BST (UK)
I know this is a tedious way to do things,  :P but you could check the surnames in that area

There are also listings for "Medwid"

Thunder Bay and Rainy River
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test3.jsp?did=123

Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Wednesday 15 October 08 06:36 BST (UK)
Thunder Bay GenWeb
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onthunde/index.html

Ontario Genealogical Society
http://my.tbaytel.net/tbayogs/

Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: waiteohman on Friday 17 October 08 01:39 BST (UK)
Hello

Possible relations found in Fort William.

There is a transcribed marriage in Fort William with mother of the bride Madgalline Medwid (relation to Mary??) with spouse born Bukovina and grooms father born Bukovina also.

Northern District, 1924 Part 3 - 19283-24 Mike FEDORUK, 26, laborer, Bukovina Roumania, Fort William, s/o Stefan FEDORUK (b. Bukovina) & Anastasia WIKSICZ, married Mary HRYHIRCZUK, 16, Bukovina Roumania, Fort William, d/o George HRYHIRCZUK (b. Bukovina) & Magdalline MEDWID, witn: Nicholas HOXTEPUP & Marylyne HUPCHUK, both of West Fort William, 29 Aril 1924 at Fort William
As the bride was 16, there is added note transcribed on this
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/north24p3.htm

The original records are accessible on Ancestry or microfilm, if you have access.

There is a Charles Kchlin on 1911 census immigrated 1903 from Hungary living in Fort William. Occupation given as labourer C.P.R.<S....>. Wife Mary immigrated 1908 from Hungary. Two children, daughter Cecilia born Hungary, son born Ontario.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=56134

Lodger on Line 43 - name looks interesting possible consideration:
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=56298

Linda

Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Friday 17 October 08 03:11 BST (UK)
Found this death.

George Oktaba
Death: 07 May 1931
Age: 1 month 15 days
Father: George Oktaba
Mother: Catherine Kotchan
Place of Death: Fort William, Thunder Bay, Ontario


Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Friday 17 October 08 03:53 BST (UK)
You can find alot of articles in the newspaper the "Simcoe Reformer". The site Paper of Record is free to join and download. You can search up to 5 years at a time.  (All I did was type in the last name, and came up with several articles.)

The Paper of Record
http://www.paperofrecord.com/

It looks like they lived in Atherton for a time and moved to Townsend Township.

They had a son named Victor who died at the age of 14, in 1942.

Janice
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Friday 17 October 08 04:10 BST (UK)
This article is small enough to post.

John Kotchan
(Death in Minnesota - 1948)
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Friday 17 October 08 04:59 BST (UK)
I found the death of George's wife Mary

This article was too big to post here.

April 19th, 1966
Mrs. George Kotchan R.R. #4 Simcoe died today at the Norfolk General Hospital. She was 70.

She was married in Fort William in 1913 to George Kotchan and is the former Mary Medwed. She had lived in the Simcoe district since 1928.

Surviving besides her husband are two sons; Peter of Brantford and James Kotchan of R.R. #4, Simcoe; three daughters Mrs George (Mellie) Culver R.R. #5, Simcoe; Mrs. Jack (Stella) Cunningham of Islington; Mrs. James (Irene) Mitchell R.R. #1, Jarvis; and one brother William Medwed of Edmonton.

Interment Oakwood Cemetery
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Friday 17 October 08 05:01 BST (UK)
Oh, good one, janice! ;D phooey where is that marriage...
were they R.C. by chance?
say, I think I found a James Koutchan, perhaps another brother....but didn't keep it...

Does this say Ketchen  Mrs. ?  ;D line 30... (altho line 3 caught my eye as well...)
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=56985
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Friday 17 October 08 05:52 BST (UK)
Good find J.J.

I think your right about that one. Looks like "Ketchen" to me.

Janice
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Janice M on Friday 17 October 08 06:18 BST (UK)
Perhaps one of the libraries will have the marriage information?

http://my.tbaytel.net/tbayogs/services.html


http://my.tbaytel.net/bmartin/m.htm

Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 20 October 08 00:28 BST (UK)
You 2 are great.  They are my grandparents  What I can't find is when they were married.  I have tried everything, I am beginning to believe they might have been married in the Ukraine.  Bokivina, now that is a town that my great Uncle mentioned.  Also John Kotchan dieing in Minnesota I didn't know that.  I thought I had went throught the Simcoe Reformer pretty good.  I guess I missed that one.  The Kotchan family  is a family that fizzles out quite quickly.  George's brother and that side, the siblings have decided not to have children.  And It looks like my grandparents side with the Kotchan name is also dwindling.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 20 October 08 00:52 BST (UK)
 ;) I don't remember you answering if they were catholic or not?
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 20 October 08 00:54 BST (UK)
sorry, they were Urkranian Greek  Orthodox.  I do believe. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Lexi on Monday 20 October 08 01:20 BST (UK)
Hi Gram,

Just noticed your question.  I have a few pages from an old magazine on "Start tracing your ancestors from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania with a step by step guide."  Give me a shout and I'll scan & e-mail a copy to you or anyone else that's interested.  Drop me a pm with your e-mail address.  Here's a few sites to have a look over

Russia

A dictionary of Russian Period Names
www.sca.org/heraldry/paul>

GenTree.Chat.Ru
gentree.chat.ru/eng/eng.htm

Online English-Russian-English Dictionary
www.freedict.com/onldict/rus.html

Researching Russian Roots
www.mtu-net.ru/rrr

Russia Message Boards
boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/an/localities.asia.russia


Ukraine

InfoUkes
www.infoukes.com

Ukraine Message Boards
boards.ancestry.com.mbexec/board/anlocalities.eeurope.ukraine

Ukraine WorldGenWeb
www.rootsweb.com/ukrwgi

Ukraine Linguistic Resources
www.lingresua.tripod.com/online

Lexi
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Lexi on Monday 20 October 08 01:32 BST (UK)
Hi Gram,

I received the pm with your address.  Give me a few minutes to scan the pages over to you.

Lexi

Update

check your e-mail box
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 20 October 08 03:26 BST (UK)
Not sure if you had said you had asked for information here ...some great reading as well:
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary built the year of the census...
http://www.thunderbay.ca/docs/hac/5503.doc.
Now seems to be called St. Mary’s Ukrainian Orthodox Church
as the address is still 716 Pacific Avenue

or even here since the other church may not have been built yet when they arrived...
http://www.slovak.com/st_peters/

ah, was looking for the address when I saw where they had a fire, & remember something about fire and records lost...awe that's rough...same thing happened here to many churches...and many of my husband's ancestral records as well.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: mrbloggins on Thursday 24 December 09 12:00 GMT (UK)
Hello grammatj8 - I noticed in one of your posts you were asking about Zynovia Kotchan.  She is a daughter of Johan and Iftimia Kotchan and should be one of the three little girls sitting on the bottom left side of the Kotchan family photo you posted, though I couldn't tell you which one.  Here is a copy of her obituary from the St Catherines Standard:

CIMPRICH, Zynovia (Zita) - Peacefully at home, on Saturday July 11, 2009 in her 87th year. Zita Cimprich (nee Kotchan) is the beloved wife of John who predeceased her in 2002. Loving mother of Arlene and Alan and dear sister to Mary Lariviere, Anne Tonkin. Mike Kotchan and George Kotchan. Fondly remembered by many nieces and nephews. Special thanks to Dr. Walser-Jebb and the many healthcare workers and agencies that provided compassionate care over the years. A graveside service will be held at Pleasantview Memorial Gardens 2250 Hwy 20 (at the 406 Hwy) Fonthill on Tuesday July 14, 2009 at 1:30 p.m. If desired, donations may be made to Mainstream Services 263 Pelham Rd., St. Catharines L2S 1X7.

At the moment I am researching the Cimprich family, trying to find a link between the families of a Frank Cimprich who married Matilda Jeselnik and a John Cimprich who married Louise Janez.  Both raised families in Port Arthur (Thunder Bay) in the 30's.  I suspect they were brothers.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Friday 25 December 09 22:42 GMT (UK)
There are some new records available online since your original posts in 2008. In case you don't have this, there is a Form 30 for John Kotchan who was returning to Canada after visiting family. It's dated 9 Aug 1921 and he was returning with his wife Isteria. It says his original arrival in Canada was on 15 Jun 1909 at the port of Quebec. His address listed is in Fort William, Ontario. He lists his father as Peter Kotchan, Dawidestic, P.O. Stauczon, Bukowina. He also says he was born in Dawidestic, was 36 and his occupation was track foreman (likely for the CPR as their main line runs there).

His wife, Isteria was 19 and was born in Dawidestic as well. Her father's name was Gorg Wiksyck of Dawidestic. They must have married when John/Johan was on this trip as she says she's never been to Canada before.

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Saturday 26 December 09 01:35 GMT (UK)
Where did you find this.  It looks like the information that I have been looking for.  Now to find the sister to Johan and George.  This is wonderful.  It matches to when Johan got married.  the year I mean.  Thanks a million. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Saturday 26 December 09 01:48 GMT (UK)
Davideşti, Romania  Do you think this is the place that they are talking about.  If it is I am going to see where to write to get more information on my family . Your thoughts please. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Saturday 26 December 09 02:09 GMT (UK)
The Form 30 did say they were of Romanian descent. A lot of the forms do have spellings of place names that are more phonetic and not even close to the actual spellings.  :P

John and his wife sailed from Bucharest on the Scandanavian.

The Form 30 documents were in use from 1919-1924 and a database of the forms is a fairly recent addition to Ancestry.ca.

I'm going to send you a PM.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Saturday 26 December 09 02:13 GMT (UK)
Did the sister come to Canada as well? I looked through this thread and don't recall seeing her name although I may have missed it.

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 28 December 09 02:26 GMT (UK)

Forgive me, as I am too busy right now to reread the thread for duplication, so am posting this anyway:
OBITUARIES For People  in Oakwood Cemetery 1930-1976 Simcoe, Ontario
http://www.norfolklore.com/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=239&Itemid=48

Kotchan, John, 6 or 4 Sep. 1948, 63 yrs., pod. Roseau Minnesota, pob. Romania, s. Iftimia
Wiekeych?, sons David G., Michael R., daugs. Zita, Mary, Ann, bro. George Kotchan (sr-9
Sep. 1948 pg. 4)
Kotchan, (Medwed) Mary, 19 Apr. 1966, 70 yr., res. RR. Simcoe, pod. Simcoe, s. George
Kotchan, sons Peter, James, daugs. Mellie Culver, Stella Cunningham, Irerne Mitchell, bro.
William Medwed (sr-19 Apr. 1966 pg. 8 )
Kotchan, Victor Dennis, 25 Sep. 1942, 14 yr., res. Townsend, pod. Townsend, s/o George
Kotchan, bros. Peter, James, sis. Mrs. George Culver, Stella, Irene (sr-28 Sep. 1942 pg. 1)

Not sure if this is your entry searching for same family...
http://www.uocc.ca/pdf/visnyk/visnyk-2009-07-1-15.pdf




Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 28 December 09 02:58 GMT (UK)
There's a list of village names
( German Pronunciation) Dawidestie  (Romanian Pron.) Davidest... district Kotzmann ( map below has Davidesti)

Note that   Bukovina is also sometimes pronounced Bukowina... the "w" said as a "v"...
The "e" may have been closed and mistaken for a "c"...No such reasoning for the district, tho  :)

The next closest  may be ( Ger.) Dawideny  (Rom)Davideni     ...district Storozynetz

Info found here... http://www.bukovinasociety.org/Bukovina-Village-Name-List.html#Danila

here is the map I like to refer to as it was from around when our ancestors left there:
http://www.bukovinasociety.org/map1910.html
Surname as Kochan is in their database, so there may be someone with more information...although it may be from the North American side http://www.bukovinasociety.org/bukovina-genealogy-surnames-1.html
also..You must become a member to view....
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 28 December 09 12:23 GMT (UK)
J.J. do you think it would be worth it to join?  I know I am asking a silly question, but it you think there would be enough reason, I would do it.  Thanks for any input.  I am getting closer than I have been in a long time to finding information that I am looking for. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 28 December 09 12:29 GMT (UK)
J.J.  Yes, that is me trying to find lost relatives.  Thanks for sending it over.  I was never sure if it made the paper.  Although I  have never got a response.  That is why I now know where they came from, I can maybe find out if there is a brother or sister involved.  Thans again for sending it over.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Monday 28 December 09 22:55 GMT (UK)
I have no idea how much it is to join, as I am not a member....ask them for yourself how much it is, then make that decision yourself. If you have the means, it won't sound expensive. Just don't expect too much and then perhaps you'll be happier with the results...
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Monday 28 December 09 23:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: SurnameIndex on Monday 01 March 10 18:54 GMT (UK)
www.SurnameIndex.info - site geared toward Russian Empire ancestry (that doesn't just mean Russians, but any of the former Soviet republics, Finland, Poland and any country from which or to which immigration happened (Germany, Scotland, England, France, Italy, Greece, Serbia, etc, etc)).

Many transcribed books and resources that I can do look ups for. Check for latest additions at http://surnameindex.info/news/

Good luck in your genealogical research!
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Hannia on Saturday 25 September 10 21:21 BST (UK)
grammatj8,

Your Immigrant Ancestors were from what is TODAY selo/village Davydivtsi (Давидівці in Ukrainian)> Kitsmanskij (Kitsman) raion/district > Chernivetska (Chernivtsi) oblast/region > Ukraine, latest zip code 59309. Population today 1,100.

This region was/is still referred to as the Historic Region of Northern Bukowyna/Bukovyna, the LAND OF BEECH TREES, in the Carpathian Mountains.

GEOPOLITICAL HISTORY:

From late 18th century to 1919 Dawisdestie > Kotzman county > Czernowice region > Historic Bukowyna Province > Austro-Hungarian Empire.  During the Interwar Period (between the two major wars - 1919-1939), Davidisti > Cernauti > Romania. Post WW2 thie region became a part of SSR Ukraine under Soviet domain until it became independent in 1991.
____________________________________________________________

The surname Kotchan (Кочан ) would indicate that they were  very likely Hutsul, a micro-ethnic Ruthenian/Ukrainian group.  Your family was Christian Orthodox and LDS has filmed Orthodox Church Registers for Davydivtsi.

Title
Metrical books, 1840-1909

Authors
Orthodox Church. Dawidestie (Bukowina) (Main Author)

Notes
Microreproduction of originals at the Chernivtsi State Archive.
Civil transcripts of Orthodox Church records (births, deaths) for Dawidestie, Bukowina, Austria; later Davideşti, Cern&#259;uţi, Romania; now , Davydivt︠s︡i, Kit︠s︡man′, Chernivt︠s︡i, Ukraine. Headings in German and Romanian, text in Romanian written with old Cyrillic script before 1874, changed to Roman script sometime in the following decade.
Chernivtsi State Archive: Fond 1245, opis 1, no. 385-386, opis 2, no. 17.

Subjects
Austria, Bukowina, Dawidestie - Church records
Romania, Cern&#259;uţi, Davideşti - Church records
Україна, Чернівці, Кіцмань, Давидівці - Метричні книги
Ukraine, Chernivt︠s︡i, Kit︠s︡man′, Davydivt︠s︡i - Church records

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Romanian
German
Russian

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 2002-2003

Physical
on 3 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]
Volume 1245-1/385 Births 1840-1889 -  VAULT INTL Film [ 2349404 Item 2 ]
Volume 1245-1/386 Deaths 1841-1882 -  VAULT INTL Film [ 2349404 Item 3 ]
Volume 1245-1/386 (cont.) Deaths 1882-1905 -  VAULT INTL Film [ 2349405 Item 1 ]
Volume 1245-2/17 Births 1890-1909 -  VAULT INTL Film [ 2362993
______________________________________________________

PS> Selo Stavchany (Kitsman raion) is exactly 2.8 miles NNW of selo Davydivtsi.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Sunday 26 September 10 19:15 BST (UK)
Hannia, Thanks for the info.  I know I am dumb as a post, but how would I get information from Latter day saints in this regard.  Thanks
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Hannia on Sunday 26 September 10 21:45 BST (UK)
gram,

Everyone starts out a bit overwhelmed.  Don't even think twice about it.  You will get smarter as you go along.   ;)
___________________________________________________________

There is an exc HOW-TO RESEARCH FILMS TUTORIAL at following link. Pay special attention to details re the Orthodox Records. Take all the time you need to prepare yourself.  The films are not going to disappear. 

You will need your surnames as they would appear using Cyrillic. 

www.halgal.com/

See following link to locate a convenient location.  Order films.  The cost is $7USD  to cover handling and mailing charges and it takes a number of  weeks before the film arrives at your convenient family center.  Then you will  have 30 days to research the contents. If you need more time, you can renew the film, at $7 per renewal, for two more 30 day periods.

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp

MAKE SURE TO BRING A MAGNIFYING GLASS.  These are handwritten church registers and it will come in handy.   

KEEP IN MIND TO ALWAYS WORK BACK, NOT FORWARD.

HAVE FUN!!! 
__________________________________________________

Meanwhile I will see if I can dig up some more village history and photos for u.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Sunday 26 September 10 22:25 BST (UK)
Thanks Hannia.  One quick, question - I'll bet money I have to know how to read ukraine.  Won't I.  If so, we have a small problem.  I can't.
I am going to see the tuturials that you mentioned. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Hannia on Sunday 26 September 10 23:40 BST (UK)
Quote
I'll bet money I have to know how to read ukraine.  Won't I.  If so,
we have a small problem.  I can't.

gram,

You just need to recognize the surname and make copies.  Give it a try.  You may surprise yourself. 

Following is a Ukrainian Alphabet Transliteration (SOUNDS LIKE)  Table.  It will give you a feel for the look and feel of the letters.  It only looks difficult.

http://pages.prodigy.net/l.hodges/translit.htm

After trying the research yourself, you may very well decide to throw up your hands and declare  I can't.  It will have cost you very little money for the effort and then I can always  put u  in contact  w/local help in Ukraine, if you like.

Stressing out over something that is not a problem yet is a waste of time.

BTW you already know one of the most difficult languages to learn, English.  :)
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Sunday 26 September 10 23:50 BST (UK)
I shall give it a try.  I'll give it 110%.  Thanks
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Thursday 25 November 10 00:27 GMT (UK)
Hanna, I know I said I would try, but could you put me in touch with local help in the Ukraine.  I really want to find this information and with me working and not being able to get to a Latter Day Saints building, it would be appreciated.  I want to be able to tell my Mom what I can find out.  Thanks for any help.  It really will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: greeneyesgudge on Wednesday 10 April 13 22:36 BST (UK)
hi my step g granfather was born in ukraine in 1877 but his surname is irish  o connel .im trying to work out why the irish were in ukraine at that time .he later imigrated to canada with his wife and son and then moved to usa .id like to find philip o connels parents .have u had much luck searching in ukraine ? cheers mish
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 11 April 13 17:40 BST (UK)
You are certain the background is Irish as you'll have to make sure it wasn't an anglicized version of their Ukranian surname such as these other variations of the name... Kohnle, Conowal, Konowal, Konio, Kenoal, Kenall
I note in 1930 they say Ukraine, but in 1940 Phillip, Nettie( Nadia) & son Andrew are stated to be from Russia https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K41H-JKD
There is another family /using OConnel but husband born New York, wife from Russia
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VRDN-J9F
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: greeneyesgudge on Thursday 11 April 13 21:47 BST (UK)
Hi jj i am not 100 percent certain as harry is sadly no longer here to confirm ,but my aunty niki said he was part irish .ive looked into the crimean war in 1854 and the irish were in russia as part of the british troops so its possible that philips father was part of that war .
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 11 April 13 22:26 BST (UK)
Son Andrew O'Connell born Kiev, Russia according to 1926 U.S./Canadian border crossing record. May not be actual birth location but name of nearest city.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 11 April 13 23:55 BST (UK)
May be all from different families, but you never know
A Joe O'connell 1883 Russia in 1910 New York https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M5HV-XJJ
A John in 1920 New York of same age  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MJYM-LYD
A Stanley of same age in Michigan https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZ3F-C9K
A Louis b. 1889 Russia in 1910 Mass. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M2JN-CN3

and is this a Russian O'Connell singing a Russian folk song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T0pASWgQ54
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: cosmac on Friday 12 April 13 01:10 BST (UK)
Do you have Phillip's death registration.  There is a late birth registration for son Samuel in the Ontario records filled out by his mother in 1942 from her address in Onaway, Presque Isle, Michigan.  Samuel was born 15 Sep 1913 Cochrane, Ontario, s/o Phillip O'Connell and Nettie Spirka.  The narrative indicates that Phillip was dead by this time.  His death registration might have information about his parents.

This website indicates that brother Steven was born in Nova Scotia?
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=102298154
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Friday 15 February 19 14:56 GMT (UK)
I know it has been 10 years since I brought this up, That is a long time ago.  I have been looking for the grandparents ancestry a long time.  I took the DNA and it brought up a lot of the grandmothers side, with few from my grandfathers side, although I can't get anyone on his side to do the DNA which sucks.  Anyhow I did get my grandfathers naturalization papers, which was awesome.  And, a believe it or not, a girl just in the next town saw some of my research and found her grandparents came from the same town of Davydiwtsi. She looked up some birth records from that town, and found that my grandfather actually had 7 brothers and sisters.  The last name being spelled Cocean.  We know the oldest stayed in Davydiwtsi and got married and had children there. Where the rest went I don't know.  This friend had her mother write to the old country to see if anyone knew the Cocean's, as it is a small town even now.   

 But the government didn't send any naturalization papers for my grandmother, Im thinking that back then maybe only one really had to do it.  But the papers saw my grandmother came from Yuzhne, Odessa, Ukraine.  Okay, this is 548 km from Davydiwtsi.  So they didn't meet at the local dance hall.  Grandfather came over in 1911.  So I believe it is JJ says she saw grandmothers obit that said she married in 1913.  Which leads me to believe they were married in Fort William.  But hogwash, I still can't find that information.  So after 10 years this is my update so far. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: JDC on Saturday 16 February 19 15:56 GMT (UK)
HI Ruskie,

I live close to Thunder Bay and know there is a genealogy group there. They may be able to help.

JDC
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Saturday 16 February 19 19:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks JDC I think I might have to see if I can get some help from Thunder Bay.  I will give them an much info as I can find and see what they can do for me.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: cosmac on Saturday 16 February 19 19:44 GMT (UK)
deleted
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Saturday 16 February 19 19:54 GMT (UK)
Cosmac, we are referring to the original post of George and Mary Kotchan.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 08 March 19 10:37 GMT (UK)
…  Anyhow I did get my grandfathers naturalization papers, which was awesome.     

 But the government didn't send any naturalization papers for my grandmother, Im thinking that back then maybe only one really had to do it.  ...

Pre- WWI a married woman (in U.S., Britain, etc.) assumed her husband's citizenship upon marriage. I believe this also applied to Canada but perhaps others will be able to confirm this.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Friday 08 March 19 13:56 GMT (UK)
Yes you are correct.  I received an email from our government saying the same thing.  Sucks.  But I'll
still keep looking for my grandmothers town.  Thanks all. 
Title: Re: A question about Rootschat
Post by: Fortwilliam on Friday 21 August 20 21:42 BST (UK)
Hello grammatj8

I recently came across this forum.

I live in Fort William and I am related to Mary HRYHIRCZUK and George HRYHIRCZUK.

If you are interested I would very much be interested in chatting



thanks Karen, yes I found Johan Kotchan naturalization in the government thingy.  However I can't find George who is my grandfather, nor Marie or Mary Medved, or Medwid, or spelling is the problem, and I didn't look for Iftimia Johan's wife to see when she got naturalized. Her maiden name was Wiksyck.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Tuesday 29 December 20 20:21 GMT (UK)
Ive just been going over some of my chats and if I haven't talked to you, I would like to.
I don't recall seeing this before.  We were in Thunder Bay 2 years ago looking for information on my grandparents.  Hope all is well and you are keeping safe.
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: DonM on Wednesday 30 December 20 03:30 GMT (UK)
I just read this and must confess your Subject Line didn't tweak my interest hence I missed it.

The Kotchan farm was a few miles east of Simcoe in Townsend township near the Cockshutt Road if my memory is correct, one or two east of Culver's. 

I knew George Kotchan who was born 1924 he would be found in Tim's having coffee with the boys talking weather, farming and lost neighbors in the 80's and 90's.  He died in 2012.

http://www.smithfuneralchapel.com/smith/death-notices?death_id=657

I also found Mary's obit in the Jarvis Record it says they were married 1913 in Fort William.

https://ja.haldimandcounty.on.ca/1960s/1966/1966_April/1966_04_28_p01.pdf

Another, was a male a longtime member of the Norfolk County Farm Safety Association but I haven't heard his name in recent years so I'm not sure if he is still around or deceased hence my omission of his name.  I believe he lived south of Delhi so he might not be related.

And finally, there is one still living who is minutes north of me in Jarvis.  Her niece (by marriage), is a neighbor.  If you want I can see if she's willing to take a telephone call.

Send me a PM, I can provide you with some names and other information.

Don
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: grammatj8 on Wednesday 30 December 20 14:42 GMT (UK)
Don, Thank you so much.  My Grandfather is George Kotchan.  Albiet the George you are talking about was my Mom's cousin.  Thanks for the info.  Im also thinking the one in Jarvis is my Mom.  Thanks for getting back to me. Who is this niece, Im curious.   It really is a small world.  Thanks again, and have a safe and Happy New Year. 
Title: Re: Ukraine & Russia: A question about Rootschat
Post by: DonM on Wednesday 30 December 20 19:04 GMT (UK)
So do you don't want me to introduce you to your Mother. 

When I saw your interests I thought it has to be one of the family.  I trust your mother is fine, I haven't seen her out for a long time but then I haven't been out much either.

Take care and all the best to you and yours in 2021.

Don