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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: rhoda53 on Friday 18 May 07 17:15 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help?
I am looking for a great, great, great uncle who I have lost after the 1861 census.
He is Henry Sharp b.approx. 1822 in Wrangle, Lincolnshire. He is the son of John and Mary Sharp.
He married an Eliza Ann Stray in 1853 and had two children, Ann and Henry.
Maybe they emmigrated to Australia but I don't know where to start looking so any help or advice would be gratefully received.
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hello there
now with sharp being a common name
can you please tell us what Eliza parents names are, that will help us find her death in Oz
will check on their deaths
regards jenn
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Assisted British Immigration
Index to Registers of Assisted British Immigrants 1839-1871
Family Name Given Name Age Month Year Ship Book Page
SHARP ELIZA A 27 JUL 1862 BOANERGES 14 127
SHARP HANNAH 6 JUL 1862 BOANERGES 14 127
SHARP HENRY 8 JUL 1862 BOANERGES 14 127
SHARP HENRY 35 JUL 1862 BOANERGES 14 127
there is the arrival of this family of assisted immigrants the ages are a little out but that is not uncommon
now there is an interesting marriage in victoria
Henry Barton Stray SHARP born Boston
maried Mary Agnes DWYER born Geelong in 1877 reg no 2689
this could be Boston, America or Boston Lincolnshire!!
regards jenn
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I think you are on to something there Jenn.
The township of Wrangle looks to be about 10 kilometres from Boston Lincolnshie.
Wonder if Henry [senior's ] mother was named Barton.
As a couple, Henry and Eliza are quite young and one would expect more children born to them after their arrival.
Sue
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As a couple, Henry and Eliza are quite young and one would expect more children born to them after their arrival.
Sue
yes Sue checked that out could not find any further births and as yet no luck finding any deaths
regards jenn
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Hello Jenn,
as far as I know Eliza's parents were John and Harriet Sharp.
Thank you for your help. Patricia
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sorry Jenn, I meant to print Stray not Sharp as Eliza's parents.(I think I was getting over excited.)
Patricia.
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no problems
do you think henry barton stray sharp might be yours?
regards jenn
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Hi
Assisted shipping information as follows:-
"Boanerges" sailed from Southhampton March 17th 1862 arrived in Melbourne July 9th 1862. The Captain was James C Dunn.
The Sharp family were from Lincolnshire. Henry was a Labourer, he could read & write. His wife and son could only read, daughter Hanah could do neither. The religion was stated as CofE.
They were employed by H J Chambers of Toorak. Wage was 70pound and term was for either 1 year or 1 month.
Hannah Ann McKAY died Hawthorn aged 72 in 1928 Reg: 10389
Parents listed as Henry Doughty SHARP & Eliza Ann STRAY
Hannah Dunn SHARP (born Eng) married Jospeh McKAY (born: Templestowe) 1883 Reg: 4694
Children:-
Henry Joseph born Lilydale 1886 Reg:11556
Samuel born Lilydale 1887 Reg: 29676 died Mooroolbark 1888 aged 5days Reg: 2263
Eliza Ann Mary born Lilydale 1889 Reg: 13880
Annie Holly born Lilydale 1891 Reg: 4610
Harriet born Lilydale 1893 Reg: 5322
Sam born Lilydale 1894 Reg: 30746
Arthur Bartram born Lilydale 1900 Reg: 27786
Regards
Genni
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IGI shows a marriage of interest.
John Sharp to Mary Doughty in 1809 at Wrangle, Lincoln
Sue
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Hi
Eliza SHARP died aged 69 in Lilydale 1905 Reg: 5932
parents: John STRAY & Harriet HAND
Henry Barton SHARP died aged 54 in Melbourne East 1916 Reg: 11300
Parents: Unknown
There is also
Henry SHARP died aged 89 in Camperdown 1911 Reg: 4199
parents: John SHARP & unkown
Genni
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Hi Genni and All,
Now that you have found the death of Eliza Genni, I can see Eliza A. Sharp and Henry B. Sharp at Lilydale Cemetery, interred together . Not much more detail available on the site, but I am sure more is available through direct contact.
Sue
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Sorry forgot this bit
Link
http://mapsearch.lilydalecemetery.com.au/PubMapping/
[I hope... it is a bit temperamental]
There also some McKay interments with your family first names of -
Joseph, Samuel and with them closely also one named ..Mary Ann??
Sue
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Hi
Eliza SHARP died aged 69 in Lilydale 1905 Reg: 5932
parents: John STRAY & Harriet HAND
Henry Barton SHARP died aged 54 in Melbourne East 1916 Reg: 11300
Parents: Unknown
There is also
Henry SHARP died aged 89 in Camperdown 1911 Reg: 4199
parents: John SHARP & unkown
Genni
Oh well done girls looks like we have found the family
It is interesting to note that henry bar on sharp age is given as 54 which would appear to be a bit out but it does say parents unknown so the informant may not have been sure of his age either which is a bit odd given the fact that his father lived a long life and only died 5 years before him perhaps he was estranged from his family?
now a couple of births to add to the tree
MYLES HENRY DWYER SHARP born 1881 reg no 14306 at Box Hill parents
Henry Barton S Sharp and Mary Dwyer
Annie Mary Eliza Sharp born 1884 BoX Hill reg no 679 parents
Henry Barton S Sharp and Mary Dwyer
death of
Agnes Mary Sharp died 1912 at
Richmond aged 63 reg no 7479
father Daniel Dwyer mother Eleanor Canty
regrds jenn
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by the death indexs there is another son
Francis Neil Sharp died in 1945 aged 66 at Prahran reg no 9987
father Henry Barton Shay Sharp
mother Mary Dwyer
now he married
Victoria Blanche Bishop in Carlton in 1912 reg no 3512
they had the following children
Neil Woodruff Sharp born 1913 reg no 7629 at South Yarra
Vi Agnes born 1914 reg no 7830
Constance Sharp born 1918 reg no 31022
He (francis Neil Sharp)
was in WW1 you can see his war record on the NAA
now I can't find a marriage for Myles only his death
Myles Henry Sharp died in 1926 aged 44 reg no 6620
father henry barton Sharp mother Mary Dwyer
Annie SCHRAMM
in 1934 aged 50 at Box Hill reg no8500
father Henry Sharp mother Agnes Dwyer
she married Victor Phiip SCHRAMM in 1904 reg no 3901 at Doncaster
the following children
Walter Max Von Schramm born 1904 reg no 28470 at Richmond died 1904 18616
Gladys Ruby Schramm born 1906 reg no 1648 at Carlton
Constance Nina Schramm borm 1908 reg no 18729 at Doncaster
Allen Myls VON SCHRAMM born 1910 reg no 10559 at Doncaster
Walter Phillip Schramm born 1916 reg no 26936 at Box Hill
were born to Victor Philip Schramm or von Schramm
and Annie Mary Sharp
regards jenn
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Hi all
Myles Henry SHARP (born: Vic) married Elsie Ann WIFFIN/WIFFEN (born: Vic) 1901 Reg: 3886
Children:-
Francis Henry born1902 Richmond Reg: 5539 died Bentleigh 1967 Reg: 7992
Doris Emily born 1904 Carlton Reg: 24371
Ruby May born 1908 Carlton Reg: 1567 died 1980 Maidstone (married name STONE) Reg: 28662
Muriel Annie born 1910 Richmond Reg: 14229 died 1985 Apollo Bay (married name McPHERSON) Reg: 23196
Alma Elsie born 1914 Carlton Reg: 29550 died Hawthorn 1916 Reg: 2025
Edward Miles born 1917 Carlton Cent Reg: 10375 died 1983 Apollo Bay Reg: 12142
regards
Genni
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Hello to you all,
THANK YOU all so very much for all the information, it has been far more than I ever expected. Absolutely wonderful, thank you again. Patricia ( my mother was Rhoda Sharp!)
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I would love to find some living descendants of Henry, any ideas ?
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Have you seen this post about the Sharp family, Wrangles, Lincolnshire?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=234079.new#new
I have linked the message from linden.
Cheers
cando
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Hello Cando,
Yes, I have seen Linden,s message. We are already in contact but thank you so much for the message.
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http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/initResSearch.do
A Suggestion would be to try the WhitePages Online Try the Schramm side of the family there are only 14 listed in Victoria rather than Sharp
regards jenn
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I had heard that the Australian census returns have been destroyed .
Is this true ? If so , how do you know what work your ancestors did ?
Linden
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hello there
yes that is true most census records have been destroyed
I do know that death certificates (if the informant knows )records occupations there are a few Post office directories about , very few, and of course electoral rolls
regards jenn
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Thanks Jenn
What a great shame . Is there an online petition that can be signed ?
It must make it quite difficult to know what your earlier ancestors were doing , unless the stories have been passed through the family .
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no Linden
I don't think there is a petition because it is covered by an act of parliment ( I think thats right If not I have no doubt Iwill be corrected and the correct information will be supplied)
the records have been destroyed but the last two census there has been a box you can tick that will enable your records to be available in 100 years
regards jenn
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http://www.aigs.org.au/savingcensus.htm#Shred
have a read of this Linden it will explain more than I can
regards Jenn
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Would just like to add that what Aust. lacks in census records is often more than compensated for by many other rich and detailed sources which are the envy of other nationalities doing research.
The top of this board is a great directory to some of these.
Sue
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You are certainly right ! I can't believe the amount of information that you've been offering .
To find out about the ship's passage for 1862 is amazing ! I'm still trying to find out about my father's journey from England to India just after his birth in 1919 !
Last week I found the pension records of a military ancestor whose regiment spent 14 years in Australia and New Zealand . When I went online I immediately found a wonderful Australian site about the regiment .
Regards,
Linden
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Would just like to add that what Aust. lacks in census records is often more than compensated for by many other rich and detailed sources which are the envy of other nationalities doing research.
The top of this board is a great directory to some of these.
Sue
here here Sue
regards jenn 8)
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Hello everyone , I wonder if anyone knows what I need to do .
I went on to google australia , then put in Henry Doughty Sharp . I found a notice from October 2000 from Val Date on the Victoria Rootschat site . She was looking for descendants of Henry and Eliza Ann Sharp . I tried the email address but it doesn't work now .
Does anyone have any ideas about how I could contact Val ?
Linden
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Hi linden
She's from my neck of the woods. In fact, a friend of mine is connected to her. I'll PM some info.
regards
Genni
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hello there Everyone
I had the following PM from Linden
Hello Jenn
I wanted to add this onto Rootschat but couldn't work out how to do it , so I used the email option .
Since you found all the information on Henry Doughty Sharp I've been contacted by one Australian descendant and by other connections in England .
According to the English connection , Henry Sharp's wife , Eliza Ann (Stray) went to Australia with one or more of her siblings on the same ship . They all came from Lincolnshire . He thinks that Mary Stray was on the Boanerges with them and that she later married Richard Ware Gibbens . They are said to have opened a hotel in Geelong , and to have died around 1904 - 1905.
Would your ships list show Mary Stray and any other Stray on board ?
Their brother , George , was said to have arrived 1864-65 on the Forester Rights(?). He married Rebecca Eaton in Australia . They had 5 children and he died in Kilmore in 1903 . My contact says he has a photograph of George and Rebecca .
They must have all lost contact with each other as Mary's effects were sent to a relative in England after her death .
I'd be grateful for any information about the Stray family.
Regards,
Linden
I have found that Mary Straywas on the Boanerges aged 17 and that she did mary Richard Ware Gibbens in 1871 reg no 923 so far no kids in Victoria up to 1889
George Stray did arrive on the Forest Rights and married Rebecca Eaton in 1875 reg no 4535
He did die in 1903 aged 61 reg no 6221 father John Stray mother Harriet HADSLEY at Kilmore
the five children were
Caroline Mary Stray born 1872/2141 at DUCK
Elizabeth born 1873/335 at LITTLE R
Caroline Harriet born 1874/16865 at Little R
John William born 1876/7243 at BR OA
Rebecca born 1880/4383 at PYALONG
Now a spanner in the works here
Richard Ware Gibbens died aged 46 in 1887 at the Prn Alf Hos reg no 7869 father Richard Ware mother Sarah Pyror
but a marriage of Mary Gibbens to Daniel JARRIE in 1897 reg no 5448R she is from england
now a death for
MARY JARVIE died aged 59 at Seymour in 1904 reg no 13936 father John Stray mother Harriet Lily
regards jenn
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Thank you Jenn
I'll pass all this information along to Jim Stray .
I wonder which of Mary's husbands built the hotel in Geelong ...
I'm always amazed at the very young ages of the travellers and their bravery in undertaking such a long voyage to somewhere so different from home . Much as I love travelling I think I would have been very frightened .
Thank you again for your help
All the best, Linden
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Hello Gennig
Unfortunately , I didn't manage to contact Val . I would love to have known what her connection to Henry and Eliza is .
In the meantime I have been in touch with a descendant of Hannah Sharp and Annie McKay , but she wasn't aware of the distant ancestors . It's so good to have this contact .
Thank you all again.
Linden
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Hello Jenn
Last year you gave me and my cousin , Trish , lots of information about Henry Doughty Sharp and his descendants in Victoria .
One of the people you mentioned was Francis Neil Sharp . I've just been contacted by his grandaughter , who still lives in Victoria . She says she has been unable to find any record of his birth . In addition , she was told by a cousin that he was not really a Sharp , but she didn't explain what she meant .
Would you have any comments or ideas ?
Might he be registered to his mother before she married ?
We would be grateful for any insights and explanations .
Thank you ,
Linden
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Hi
There are three DWYER births in 1879 with no father named but none with mother Mary. None in 1878 with mother Mary. Francis died in 1945 aged 66 so b. 1878/1879. Henry and Mary Agnes marriage was in 1877. Perhaps a rellie's child.
Cheers
cando
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Hello again Cando - good to hear from you again .
Is it right that you can't find Francis's birth either ?
If Francis Neil was born to someone else I suppose there's an outside chance that he was still Francis Neil and that's what she needs to look for .
Strangely , my grandfather's eldest brother (a 2nd cousin of Francis) was born 1874 as George Arthur Doolin . His parents married in 1878 but on the 1881 census he's Arthur Joseph Sharp . In subsequent censuses he's George Arthur Sharp . And then his baptism is Arthur Joseph Doolin . We still don't know whether his father was Fred Sharp , and unfortunately we are all female descendants .
If Francis is half as complicated ...
I suppose these are the never to be solved family history questions .
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Hi linden
I cannot see a birth for Francis Neil - there are only 2 births with those names on the Pioneer Index.
I will give DWYER births in 1879 with no father named - Did Mary have a sister Ann, Annie or Margaret? No DWYER births with unknown father in 1878.
DWYER Simon Flaherty
Father Mother Ann DWYER
at Carlton 1879 Reg# 21763
DWYER Thomas Edward Trevor
Father Mother Margaret DWYER
at Melbourne 1879 Reg# 24579
DWYER William John
Father Mother Annie DWYER
at Geelong 1879 Reg#: 9614
Could the cousin be approached again for more information.
Cheers
cando
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Linden is there is a DWYER birth to a Mary Ann DWYER in 1875 with no father named... The year of birth does not tie in with the age at death of Francis Neil... :-\
DWYER James
Father: U Mother Mary Ann DWYER
at Melbourne 1875 Reg# 10475
Have you Francis Neil's marriage certificate?
Bit of a puzzler...if only the cousin would tell...
Cheers
Cando
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I don't think my contact has any living relatives who would know .
I'll ask her re marriage certificates.
The 1875 birth does sound like a possibility . If we could work out why he is called Francis Neil . I haven't come across Francis or Neil in the Sharps . The Francis might be RC , so it might be a Dwyer family name .
His WW1 army records just might help , also the marriage certificate .
If there is a male descendant we could have a look at the DNA ...
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Hello there Linded
I have to confirm the same as the others no I cannot find a birth for Francis Sharp either. Perhaps it wasn't registered.
It is interesting that the marriage was in 1877 and the first child was not born/registered till 1881 (and the next in 1884 ) so it is possible it was an unregistered birth.
the Francis Neil could be from the Dwyer side of the family which may have been Irish ;)
A look at his marriage certificate might give further information one would hope
kind regards Jenn
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Hi guys,
Just read your posts. I dont know how relevant it is to your direct line, but:-
Richard Ware Gibbens (senior) m Sarah Prior. He was a blacksmith. Family lived in Tiverton and arrived (with 5 children) on the Calliope in 1853. Richard Ware (junior) married Mary Stray in 1975. Reg. #4535. An interesting fact: Richard Senior gives his father's name as Thomas Joyce. Perhaps he was raised by a stepfather. I did not know about the hotel. Thanks for the info.
Gale
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Hello Gale
I think I heard about the hotel from an English Stray . If I remember , he said that some of her clothes were sent back to England when she died . Do you think there might be some registration of the hotel ? And I'm not sure whether it might have been with the 2nd husband .
Do letme know if you discover anything else!
Regards
Linden
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I have not been able to find any children, not in victoria anyway. I suspect there were no children and no next of kin here. Richard died fairly early, maybe he drank himself to death on the profits!
There must be something written about the hotel. I'll see what I can dig up.
Gale
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Thank you Gale that would be interesting . Did you find her 2nd marriage ? I'm surprised she wasn't in touch with her brother or his family.
Regards,
Linden
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Hi Linden,
She's not in my direct line so I don't know much about her. Richard's brother was my great-grandfather. Richard died in 1887 and he was only 47 years old. They were blacksmiths and livery people. My guess, its only a guess, is that she opened the hotel with her second husband. I did a bit of hunting and found a tenuous reference to a Jarry and a Golden Point Hotel, which was later re-named the Terminus Hotel, in Mercer Street Geelong.
The hotel is still standing and is heritage listed and I think still operating. I think it was one of the rare, three story buildings in early geelong so the owner must have had a bit of cash! You can see it at: http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/ahdb/search.pl?mode=place_detail;place_id=15782
hope it helps
regards
Gale
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Thank you so much Gale . It's sointeresting to see apicture . I must see if I can find myStray contacts to pass it on .
Thank you
Regards,
Linden
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Many people have helped me in the past. Its my pleasure. :)
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Hi, I too have started researching the Sharp side of my family. Annie Sharp married Victor Von Schramm my Great Grandparents.
Would love to get in touch with the poster to exchange information.
Regards
Sue
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Hi
I am related to Neil Woodruff Sharp, Father(Francis Neil Sharp) Francis was adopted by the Sharp family his mother my GR GR Aunt was Louisa Neil. Louisas Neil brother was my GR Gr grandfather. I have a photo of Louisa. V