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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tarnee on Wednesday 23 May 07 05:38 BST (UK)
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Could someone kindly look up Frances Edith Chatfield for me please, she was born June qtr 1878 Milton Kent.
Could possibly go under Frances, Fanny or Edith.
That is all l have on her so hoping someone can help.
Many thanks
Jean
in Australia
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Kent Tunbridge Wells 1891
George Chatfield 45 leather cutters assistant Sussex
Mary 45
Edith 13
Edwin 12
Lallie(?) 10
george 9
Gordon 5
Cecil 4
Mum and children all born Tunbridge wells kent.
Fizzy
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In 1901 she was a servant in Tunbridge Wells.
Fizzy
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Hi Fizzy,
Many thanks for both lots of info much appreciated. Did both census have address for her
Jean
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Hi Jean & Fizzy
I wouldn't have thought that was her as Tonbridge Wells is the opposite end of the county. The Milton registration district includes the following:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/milton.html
There is also Milton, Gravesend :-\
Is the source http://freebmd.rootsweb.com ? If so, I don't think that is correct as there is no Frances Edith CHATFIELD on the image June quarter 1878 Milton 2a 159 - the nearest is Florence Ruth CHATFIELD Alton RD 2c 159. I wonder if it is a bad transcribing error or if she should appear in a different quarter/year? It's not a common name in the Milton area :-\
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
From my mother in law l got the name Fanny Chatfield born 1878 Milton Kent. I found the ref that l gave at Freebmd, so now l am at a loss do l assume that it is not her that Fizzy gave me. l did look up 1881 and got same parents as 1891.
Jean
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Hi Jean
All I can say is that neither Milton (near Gravesend or near Sittingbourne) is anywhere near Tonbridge or Tunbridge Wells. Do you know the source of your mother in law's information?
What about Dorothy - did she die post 1969 (England or Wales) so that you can track her exact date and place of birth from death certificate or something ???
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,201059.msg1013041.html#msg1013041
Casalguidi :-\
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some guys with full access can get an address for you. unfortuanltey i do not have full access!
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Hi Casalguidi,
Many thanks for your help, glad you put up my other post. Seems as far as we know Frances (fanny) died around 1920 by then she is married. Dorothy disappeared no word to the family. Mother in law is now 93 although pretty good she says" that rings a bell" when given places and names. l really have to try things she says to see if it leads anywhere. Its a bit hard when she is in UK and me in Australia, but much appreciate your input.
Hi Toni,
Not to worry, by the looks of things its not the right person. Maybe somethings will always remain a mystery.
Jean
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Hi Jean
Do you happen to know where Fanny died c1920 or at least where the family were probably living at that time?
Fanny E WALL death registered June quarter 1920 Greenwich registration district age 53 ref. 1d 924 (she born c1866/1867)
Fanny E WALL death registered December quarter 1920 Stroud registration district age 49 ref. 6a 393 (she born c1870/1871)
When/where does her husband next turn up after the 1913 birth/baptism of their child in Chatham?
Casalguidi
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Does the name WESTCOTT ring any bells? I only ask because there is a marriage for a Fanny CHATFIELD to a Christopher Manger WESTCOTT in the parish registers of St Barnabus, Gillingham (next to Chatham) 15 Sep 1897.
Fanny CHATFIELD 23 spinster of Marsh Villa, Nelson Road, New Brompton dau of Thomas James CHATFIELD civic clerk of works
Christopher Manger WESTCOTT 21 bachelor grocer of 17 Duncan? Road, New Brompton son of Christopher WESTCOTT deceased of the (?) 29th foot.
Witnesses Frank CAIL?, Thomas James CHATFIELD, Rose H....?
..........................
This Christopher & Fanny had twin daughters baptised 15 April 1901 St Mark, New Brompton, Gillingham .................. Annie Frances & Sylvia Louisa (she appears to have died in infancy) of 17 Jeyes? Road, Christopher a clerk.
..................................
Fanny appears to be aged 26 born Hounslow, Middlesex in the 1901 census of Gillingham.
There is a birth registration of a Dorothy Maud E W WESTCOTT in the June quarter of 1910 Medway registration district ref. 2a 762. Maybe I'm just being fanciful here but just wondering if the W could actually stand for WALL ???
Of course it may be nothing :-\
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
Her husband was in the navy, he died 28th March 1949 age 73 Basingstoke,he had remarried around 1935ish, after her death the son( probably around 5/6 years old) went to live with friends of the family until his father retired. l think they stayed around Medway/Kent area due to the husband being in the navy.
l know this is really a hard one and one l have to keep coming back to every so often hoping freebmd have added something else or something will turn up.
l think thats about all l have to go on.
many thanks
Jean
Just seen your next post will print off and study it then ask my mother in law if anything rings a bell.
l really appreciate the time and help you have given me.
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Hi Jean
Am wondering if we've cracked it (or not) :-\
Dorothy Maud Edith dau of Frank & Fanny WALL of 109 Shakespeare? Road, Gillingham (sick berth steward Royal Navy) baptised Luton, Chatham 7 Oct 1910
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ke/
This could match with the Dorothy Maud E W WESTCOTT birth registered 1910 as mentioned above :-\
Perhaps it would be worth a chance on the birth certificate of this Dorothy to see if the mother's maiden name is CHATFIELD?
Don't suppose you know the names of the friends that looked after David in the Medway area?
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
You have cracked it many many thanks.
l don't know when Frank and Fanny married but thats Dorothy and the address is road same but l had 159 but they could have moved from 109 to 159 before David's birth, his cert has mother name Chatfield. Looking at your post before last one could the witness to the marriage Frank Cail? be actually Frank Wall?
David went to live with a family call Ladbrook until Frank finished in the Navy.
l will ask mom about the name Westcott not sure she will know as she had said
there seemed to be a family secret which David never spoke about unfortunately David died in 1978 so cannot ask him.
l really do appreciate all your help and time you have given me.
Jean
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Hi Jean
Looking at your post before last one could the witness to the marriage Frank Cail? be actually Frank Wall?
I couldn't make the witness out to be Frank WALL but here is the original signature on the 1897 marriage document of Fanny CHATFIELD - see what you think:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kn/
And here are the baptism entries for the WESTCOTT twins:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ko/
I checked the full GRO marriage index yesterday and couldn't see any marriage for a Fanny WESTCOTT to a WALL 1910-1920 so perhaps they didn't marry at all :-\
Casalguidi :)
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Hi all :)
Following up on Casalguidi's idea:
1901
RG13/736 53 30
Gillingham, Kent
15 Jeyes? Rd
Christopher M Westcott, head, 25, Clerk Commercial, b. Guernsey Channel Islands
Fanny, wife, 26, b. Mddx Hounslow
Annie F, dau, 3 weeks, b. Kent New Brompton
Sylvia L, dau, 3 weeks, b. do.
Janes Barnes, nurse, wid, 61, monthly nurse, b. Ireland
RG13/737 75 17
Gillingham, Kent
Marsh Villa - Nelson Rd
Thomas J Chatfield, head, 57, Clerk of Works, b. Sussex Cockfield
Thomas Cail, brother in law, mar, 52, Plumber, b. Lincs Marsh Chapel
Francis Cail, sister, mar, 50, b. Durham Frosterly
William Cail, nephew, 10, b. West Brompton
1891
RG12/662 6 8
Gillingam, Kent
Nelson Road - Marsh Villa 52
Thomas J Chatfield, head, 48, Military Foreman of Works, b. Sussex Cockfield
Annie, wife, 48, b. Lincoln Marsh Chapel
Fanny, dau, 16, b. London Hounslow
+ 2 boarders
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Hi Jean
Whilst I have a spare moment, the possible marriage of Fanny CHATFIELD's parents - Thomas James CHATFIELD to Ann WILTSHIRE (widow) nee WILSON at Gillingham 8 April 1872
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kp/
I do hope this is the right family and am not sending you down the garden path ;D
Tati, that's great - I can't see them in 1881 but wonder if that is because Thomas James CHATFIELD was in the army (corporal Royal Engineers looking at the above marriage) :-\
Casalguidi :)
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Hi Casalguidi,
Many thanks for both of those enteries, l wonder if Frank and Fanny lived in sin but at Dorothy's baptism they are both Wall and on David's birth cert she is Chatfield the mystery deepens.
Just seen both yours and Tati's new posts so will print off and speak to my mother in law in the next couple of weeks and see if she can either confirm or shed more light.
My thanks to you both for the amazing help you have given me, l really have been at a loss to know where to look, without kind people like yourselves some of us would not get anywhere with our family trees, bless you both.
kindest regards
Jean
in Australia
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Hi Jean
I would say that it does look like Frank and Fanny "lived in sin" as you put it ;)
Yes, they are WALL on Dorothy's baptism but it does look like Dorothy's birth was registered as WESTCOTT ie. Fanny's name at the time if my hunch is correct. Perhaps the registrar of births asked for some marriage details or proof of marriage whereas the vicar didn't :-\
Unless your mother in law comes up trumps, probably the only other way to confirm (or otherwise) would be to purchase a copy of Dorothy WESTCOTT's birth certificate to see whether the mother was Fanny CHATFIELD.
It's certainly been a mysterious family to unravel ;)
Best wishes :)
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
Many thanks again for all your great help, the information you have given me certainly gives me leads to follow as before with what info l had could not get anywhere on my own, and now l know more of what questions to ask.
kindest regards
Jean
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Hi Jean
I have just realised something - have you actually seen David's full birth certificate?
He is registered in two names .....................
December quarter 1913 Medway
David T F WESTCOTT (mother's maiden name CHATFIELD) ref. 2a 1562
David T F WALL (mother's maiden name CHATFIELD) ref. 2a 1562
You can check both the registrations out here http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=8964&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0
I think this proves that all the above is correct ie. the correct Fanny CHATFIELD who married Christopher WESTCOTT but didn't actually marry Frank WALL (at least not before David's birth). Perhaps she was still legally wed to Christopher WESTCOTT or maybe even Frank WALL was still legally wed to somebody else :-\
Nevertheless, at least it is the correct family and you should now be able to research further with some confidence ;D
Am so pleased to have been able to help you sort this one out
Casalguidi :)
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Hi Casalguidi,
Many thanks for that last piece of information, l have not seen the actual certificate my mother in law just wrote down his name, date and mothers maiden name she never mentioned the Westcott name only Wall on the certificate, would 2 registered names have 2 certs or is that a silly question to ask, if there are 2 then maybe she only has the Wall one.
You have been such a great help in this family mystery l really cannot express enough my thanks for the time you have spent sorting this lot out. now the family tree is not so lop sided.
Jean
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Hi Jean
I would assume just the one birth certificate (both entries have the same reference number) so I would assume registered at the same time but both names entered into the index.
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
Thats what l thought one birth certificate, but thought l would just check with you, this certainly has been a hard one for me solve, thank heaven for Rootschat and kind people like yourself willing to help.
My thanks and kindest regards
Jean
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Hi Jean
Perhaps, next time you speak to your mother-in-law you could ask her to read out the birth certificate for you word for word - including the date it was issued.
Casalguidi :)
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Hi Casalguidi,
Sorry have not been on for a couple of days have got a rotten cold.
My former husband has just arrived in uk and is going to bring back a copy of the Birth Certificate for me, so this should confirm (hopefully) the information you have given me.
Mant thanks
Jean
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Moderator comment: topics merged
Read conversation from Jean in Australia dated about 2006, about Dorothy Maud Edith Westcott/Wall and her brother David T F Wall both born in Gillingham Kent.
Dorothy was my mother-in-law and I know all about her life from 1931 to her death in 1973 if it is of interest.
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Hi Jean
Have just read your postings of 2007 about Dorothy Maud Edith Westcott/ Wall born in 1910 in Gillingham. Dorothy was my mother-in-law and I have information about her adult life if you are interested.
JAG