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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: liznel on Monday 28 May 07 21:26 BST (UK)
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Looking for John Telfer and Janet Davidson their son william was born 1844 lockerbie Dumfries and died 1902 in Castle douglas. William married Hellen Kerr from torthorwald. Thry lived in Kelton. Their son Thomas Kerr telfer married susan Jardine Johnstone.
Thanks Liz
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i wonder if this is the same john telfer and janet davidson who married 6th december 1840 in dryfesdale, dumfries, if so they had children:
agnes c: 7/1/1841
mary: 29/1/1846
jean davidson: 22/3/1848
janet little: 1853
john: 18/1/1856
TWINS> james & joseph little murray: 14/5/1858
thomas: 28/7/1863
Joe
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Hello Liz :)
The births that Joe has found are very likely the same family. Here they are in 1851:
Parish 820 ED 7 Page 19
Townhead, Lockerbie (Dryfesdale)
John Telfer, hd, 31, labourer, b. Dryfesdale
Janet, wife, 29, b. Canonbie
William, s, 8, scholar, b. Dryfesdale
Mary, d, 5, b. Dryfesdale
Jean, d, 3, b. Dryfesdale
Agnes, d, 5 months, b. Dryfesdale
Regards
Gadget
PS I see that you are looking for 3 generations. It's probably best to do one at a time. I'll see what I can find on this generation. first!
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John Telfer died 17 April 1893, Longhill Cottage, St Mungo, Dumfries, aged 74.
General labourer, married to Janet Davidson. His parents were John Telfer, labourer, dec. and Mary, m.s. Brown, dec.
Gadget
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Janet Telfer died 24 January 1900, Longhill Cottage, St Mungo, Dumfries, aged 74
Widow of John Telfer, labourer. Her parents were Richard Davidson, shepherd, dec. and Janet, unknown m.s., dec.
Gadget
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according to the igi's (which you can confirm on scotlandspeople's website)
william married helen on the 26th feb 1864 at lochmaben, dumfries
children from the marriage
john: 12/7/1864 torthorwald
william: 25/7/1866 irongray kirkcudbright
william: 18/11/1867 irongray
robert: 3/11/1869 kelton kirkcudbright
robert: 14/12/1870 kelton
agnes: 14/1/1873 kelton
a wee look at the 1881 census will tell you what children survived as it looks like that helen lost 2 babies.
Joe
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great stuff gadget, on freecen for the 1841 census i found
1841- high street, lockerbie
janet davidson- age 20- ag labourer
agnes telfer- age 4 months
can you confirm this pal?
Joe
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Interesting, Joe. I'll have a look.
Any chance of finding the telfer and davidson parents on the 1841 - Richard and Janet Davidson and John and Mary Telfer?
Gadget
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1841: Parish 820, ED 7
High Street, Lockerbie, Dryfesdale
Janet Davidson, 20-24, ag labourer, b County
Agnes Telfer, 4 months, b. County
As there was a tendency to go by maiden names, we don't really know if Janet and John were married by this time - or common law, etc.
I'll check for John :)
Gadget
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Very strange - no obvious sightings of any of the other Telfers on the 1841 ???
Gadget
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very strange gadget pal, i have looked for john and mary(parents of john) in the 1841 on freecen and can find nothing, the same for richard and janet(parents of janet).
a wee bit of dectective work throws up a marriage of mary to james leith, guess what? they also have a daughter born in irongray kirkcudbright, they also have an agnes, agnes seems to be a popular name with the telfer's.
wonder what the link to kirkcudbright is?
Joe
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Is it the correct Mary though, Joe?
Agnes was pretty popular around there then. I have some.
I'll have a look on the 1851 but they could have all died :-\
Gadget
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IGI throws up two baptisms for Telfers in Dryfesdale: beofre John and Janet
23 Sept 1810 - mary
25 Oct 1812 - Jean
Both have father named as John. The 1810 one has a Mary Room as mother.
I'll see my other sources.
Gadget
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Think it's the same family and maybe, just maybe, Mary Room and Mary Brown have got mixed up in the memories:
1810 - Mary
1812 - Jean
1815 - William
1817 - John
all Dryfesdale, all father John Telfer, only Mary has mother mentioned - Mary Room!
Gadget
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hi pal, i am also looking along the lines that janet davidson was born 20/7/1819 canobie, but she was the daughter of james? and agnes carruthers?
Joe
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The only Davidsons that I can find with father Richard are:
1810 - Anna to Richard and Elizabeth Davidson (Canonbie)
18120 - David to Richard D and Betty Johnston (Applegarth)
Betty and Elizxabeth could well be the same person but it's usual to put mother's maiden name. Otherwise, I have in Canonbie:
1819 - Jane to John Davidson and Elizabeth Underwood
18122 - Jane Beattie to James Davidson and Elizabeth Telfer or Charters
nothing for a Janet!
Gadget
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Janet seems to be fairly consistent with her age - except when someone informed on her death cert!
1891 - last time John and Janet were enumerated:
Longhill Cottage, St Mungo, Dumfriesshire
Reg District 847 ED 2 page 7
John Telfer, 71, general labourer. B. Dryfesdale
Janet, 70, b. Corrie
Janet, d, 37, b. Dryfesdale
John, s, 35, general labourer, b. Dryfesdale
James, 26, general labourer, b. Dryfesdale
John, grd s, 15, scholar, b. St Mungo
Janet, grd d, 10, scholar, b. St Mungo
Jane, grd d, 10, scholar, b. St Mungo
Gadget
Added - the Little and Murray surname must have come from somewhere:
children- info we have:
1841 Agnes
1843 - William
1846 - Mary
1848 - Jean Davidson
1850 - Agnes (on 1861)
1853 - Janet Little ( on 1861)
1856 - John (on 1861)
1857 - Elizabeth (on 1861)
1858 James and Joseph Little Murray (James on 1861)
1863 - Thomas
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1881 - slight age discrepancy here but not significant
Reg District 847 ED 2 page 6
Longhill Cottage, St Mungo
John, 56, ag Lab, b. Dryfesdale
Janet, 55, b. Corrie
Agnes, 28, farm serv, b. Dryfesdale
Janet, 26, farm serv, b. Dryfesdale
John, 24, railway surfaceman, b. Dryfesdale
James, 21, Garden lab, b. Dryfesdale
Thomas, 17, gamekeeper, b. Dryfesdale
John, grd s, 6, b. St Mungo
Janet, grd d, 5 months, b. St Mungo
Jane, grd d, 1 month, b. St Mungo
I can't find them on the 1871 :(
Gadget
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well done pal, would you believe that john telfer turns up on the igi's
john born 20th jan 1874, st mungo, mother agnes telfer
Joe
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There seem to be quite a few grandchildren that might be worth investigating. In addition to John, there's Janet and Jane - 1880-1 born 4 months apart at St Mungo.
Gadget
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hi pal, nae credit left for scottishpeople, guess what? there is a marriage showing up for all parishes between 1/1/1839 and 31/12/1841 for john telfer married to a davidson? what do you think?
joe
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My broadband is playing up :(
Jane was Feb 1881, illegitimate, Longhill Cottage, mother Agnes Telfer.
Gadget
Where's the marriage, Joe?
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gadget pal, who took over longhill cottage in 1901?
Joe
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i went to scottishpeople gadget.
Joe
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Janet Margaret Telfer, born October 1880, Longhill Cottage. Mother Janet Telfer.
Informant in both case was janet Telfer, grandmother.
Not sure if I can find the 1901 ownership out easily, Joe. I'll see.
Gadget
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John Telfer and Janet Davidson marriage/banns, Dryfesdale, 6 December 1840.
So where was John on the 1841 ??? ??? ???
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my goodness pal, that confirms my first post to this thread!!!
Joe
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1901 Longhill Cottage, St Mungo Dist 847 ED 2 page 8
James Telfer, hd, 42, gardener's labourer
Agnes,sis, 49, Housekeeper
John, brother (?), 28, labourer
Jean, sister (?), 20, outdoor worker
birthplaces as before
Gadget
I confirmed your first post in my first post Joe ;D
The births that Joe has found are very likely the same family. Here they are in 1851:
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Now we have the Hel(l)en Kerr, Torthowald and Susan Jardine Johnstone to trace.
I'll check in later and see what I can find that's not been found by then!
Gadget
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best i can do for helen is from the igi's
helen kerr born 9/5/1845 dryfesdale, daughter of william and margaret irvine.
Joe
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- Joe, she was born Torthorwald - see first post!
Gadget
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William Telfer and Hellen Kerr married, Lochmaben, 1864. Her parents were John Kerr, farmer and Agnes m.s. Johnstone.
Gadget
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Thomas Telfer (son of William and Hellen) married Susan Johnston in November 1897 in Corniehill (?), Borgue. Her parents were George Johnstone, dairyman, and Isabella, m.s. Black.
Thomas was 21 and Susan was 24.
Gadget :)
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i wil try aand rectify gadget, sorry
john kerr married agnes johnstone march 1823 lochmaben
children
janet: 28/8/1824 lochmaben
william: 1/3/1826 lochmaben
david: 1828 lochmaben
John: 1831 lochmaben
isabel: 1834 lochmaben
thomas: 1835 lochmaben
jean: 17/2/1839 torthorwald
agnes: 1840 lochmaben
agnes: 23/4/1843 torthorwald
mary: 1847 torthorwald
no sign of helen?
1841 census- raemoor, tortorwald
john-45-farmer
agnes-35
david-13
john-11
thomas-6
isabella-3
jean-2
agnes-1 month
also according to igi's john was born dalton 1796 and agnes was born lochmaben 1806.
hope this is the correct family
Joe
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Hi Joe :)
When she married William in 1864 she was down as aged 21, which would make her born circa 1843. William is also down as 21. Maybe they just said that they were 'of full age' or whatever. There was no requirement of proof.
Could she be Agnes renamed or was there a birth between Agnes and Mary that's missing :-\
I've not looked on the censuses and I'm off for a while now.
Gadget
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george johnstone married isabella black on the 6th december 1872 in new cumnock, ayr.
their daughter susan jardine johnstone was born on the 7th october 1873 in new cumnock, ayr.
Joe
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night pal, see ye efter
Joe
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Night Joe. I'll try to see what I can find but I ain't up to much at the moment :-\
Gadget
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another piece of info from the igi's it looks like our isabella black was born 24/7/1845, penninghame, wigtown.
father peter black
mother susan jardine
Joe
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there is not a lot more info i can add gadget, as all we need now is the children of thomas and susan.
hopefully liz has them on the 1901 census and can follow on from there.
happy hunting
Joe
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I think it'sprobably best to wait for Liz now. To see what bits she hasn't got. It's pointless repeating things that she already knows.
Well done, Joe :)
Gadget
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Hi
You have done alot of work, Some of the main info I have already however I did not have much on their families. I have John Telfer married to a Mary Rome ? where , their son John married Janet Davidson. I would like to find out where the Telfers originated from. There seems to be a large family of them in the Kirkcudbright area.
I am decended from Annie Murray Johnston Telfer daughter of Thomas Telfer and Susan J Johnston.
Thanks again for all the work you have done
Best wishes Liz
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Thomas Telfer (son of William and Hellen) married Susan Johnston in November 1897 in Corniehill (?), Borgue. Her parents were George Johnstone, dairyman, and Isabella, m.s. Black.
Thomas was 21 and Susan was 24.
Gadget :)
Hi everyone, think it might be Cairniehill, Borgue as I've never come across a Corniehill round here- could it be Gadget?
Can (try!) to post a picture...... I live here/ there, oh you know what I mean ::)
Woodydog
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Hi Woody :)
It would be lovely if you could post a picture :) The writing on the cert was very bad :-\
Gadget
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Here goes (attempt 3!)
Taken in February 2006 (would go out and take another but it's a bit overcast!)
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trying again with 2nd pic taken in the 1970's (I think) before modern cow sheds went up....
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Hi Liz,
Two pics (more if needed) taken at the old (now inactive) churchyard of St Mungo of your John Telfer and Janet Davidson.
Jak.
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Hi Guys
Just back for holidays. Great pictures and info. Keep up the good work, this is all adding to my family history.
Best wishes to all
Liz
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children of James Davidson and Agnes Carruthers are James bn 24/10/1797 (m)
Mary Blacklock 1835. William bn 12/11/1799 (m) Janet Douglas1832. Mary bn 04/07/1802. Robert bn 10/01/1805. John bn 18/03/1807 (m) Jane Davidson 1833. Walter bn 29/03/1809 (m) Isabella Bell 1842 and (m) Jane Bell 1874.
Richard bn 24/01/1811 (m) Elizabeth Boyes. Hugh bn 03/01/1814. Janet bn 20/07/1819 (m) John Telfer 06/12/1840 in Dryfesdale.
Sheila and myself family tree come's from John Davidson he married Jane Davidson, ( another Davidson branch ).
Shirley
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Hi, Found them in the 1871 census under Telford.