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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Selkirkshire => Topic started by: JustinL on Thursday 31 May 07 08:29 BST (UK)

Title: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 31 May 07 08:29 BST (UK)
Does anybody know anything about the Associate Synod (the Burgher half of the Secession Church) in Selkirk, and specifically whether baptisms of dissenter families were recorded in the parish registers of the established church or wa there a separate register?

I know that Dr. George Lawson was the professor of divinity at the Divinity Hall (training college for ministers) in Selkirk from about 1782 till his death in 1820. The Statistical Accounts of Scotland for 1791-99 state, ‘There is in Selkirk, a meeting of Burgher Seceders, the only one in the country.’

The census of Selkirk conducted in 1817 recorded Dr. Lawson in Water Row with five others. They were presumably his wife and children, yet there are no baptisms in the OPRs.

Justin
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 31 May 07 20:53 BST (UK)
Hi Justin

Nothing relating to your question sadly  ::) just wanted to check whether you had seen this entry in the wills & testament section on SP which may be connected:

Lawson   George   04/12/1851   Revd, minister of United Presbyterian Church in Selkirk, spouse of Jeanie MacCallum   Inventory; Contract of Marriage;    Selkirk Sheriff Court   SC63/34/5

Regards.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 31 May 07 21:16 BST (UK)
Thankyou Monica for taking some interest.

The UP church was a sort of descendent of the Associate Synod, so the George you found is probably related.

In a way I've answered my own question this evening. The parish records contain numerous entries ending with 'baptized by Rev. Geo. Lawson, Minister of the Associate Congregation.'

Still can't find my family though....  ???

Justin
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: Alexandrina on Tuesday 07 August 07 03:37 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

My family were also members of this congregation. Most of the children are not mentioned in the parish registers though; many of the marriages are. 

In 1854 in preparation for the onset of civil registration from 1855 many folk were asked to add any marriages etc to the parish register. Accordingly many many were squeezed in wherever there was white space left in the register, even as far back as the 1780's. These were all added in 1854. The Selkirk registers are a dreadful mess and almost impossible to read in places.

I have the information about Georges marriages, he married twice, and births of his children. All of these were mentioned in the Church of Scotland registers even although George was the leader of the dissenting Associate Session. HIS children are all listed, yet the children of his parish members were all left off. Talk about elitism , working well here wasn't it!

My family were the MURRAYS of Selkirk. I have been working on finding these missing children for about 25 years now. No easy task from Sydney Australia. The National Archives of Scotland are said to hold registers of the dissenting parishes, however last time I looked for George's registers there, I couldn't find them.

Given that he was so famous and influential the registers must be somewhere, there is a group on the web researching these dissenting ministers, I left a message asking them if they knew where registers were, no reply yet. Called St Georges...

Google search on "George Lawson" + Selkirk will find them.

I have many of his sermons preached in Selkirk during the days of our ancestors, they would have listened to these, so quite a nice feeling to know that we can read the  exact sermons they listened to hundreds of years ago.

Georges son John Lawson, also another George.

What is your family surname by the way?


Sandie
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JAP on Tuesday 07 August 07 05:32 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

No doubt you've seen the following diagram - which is a convenient reference (if incomplete?) to the schisms in the Church of Scotland - at:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html

Alexandrina says that George's children are in the OPRs - are these the right ones (from the IGI)?  They are the only LAWSON/LASSON entries in the relevant batch (C117785, Selkirk, 1766-1819)
All Selkirk.
Parents George LASSON & Agnes ROGER (possibly George's first wife)
*Agness Roger LASSON 1780
Which leads to the following marriage:
- George LASSON and Agness ROGER, 1779, Selkirk
Parents George LASSON & Margaret MOORE/MOIR
*Agness 1784
*George 1786
*Margaret 1787
Parents George LAWSON & Margaret MOIR
*Margaret 1789
*Andrew & Charlot 1792
*John 1794
*Jessy 1795
*Jean 1797
If these are correct, then it seems to lead to the following marriage:
- George LAWSON and Margaret MOIR or DICKSON, 1783, St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, MLN
and to Margaret's previous marriage:
- Margaret MOIR (father Andrew) and Alexander DICKSON, 1780, St Cuthberts, Edinburgh

Apologies if you've considered and dismissed all of the above.

I have forebears who were members of an Associate Session congregation (in Stirlingshire) and it seems to have been very random indeed whether or not (more often not) their marriages and baptisms were recorded in the relevant OPR.  The established Church of Scotland ministers pretty obviously wanted all events to be recorded in their Register - but the Seceders do not seem to have been co-operative  ;)  Some of the entries in the OPR say something like - against an entry re Proclamation of Banns -  'married by Mr France at Buchlyvie'; and it is only by knowing that Mr France was an Associate Session minister that one can tell.  Others say - against a birth/baptism entry - something like 'Baptized by a Seceder'!

This particular Associate Session church was at Buchlyvie in the established Church parish of Kippen.  Some of the records of the Associate Session church have survived and are held at the Stirling Archives.  Unfortunately, the volume which is of most interest to me is missing - one can only hope that, one day, it will be found mouldering (not too badly!) in an attic ...

Regards,

JAP     
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JustinL on Tuesday 07 August 07 08:20 BST (UK)
Hello Sandie and JAP,

Thank you very much for your responses. I had given up hope that there was anybody out there interested in the subject.

Sandie - I'm looking for William WALKER, b. 1797/98, whose father was possibly called Andrew (William named his eldest son Andrew). The 1817 census records three WALKER households, two of which were Seceders, i.e. at least some of the children of the household were baptized by Dr. Lawson.

Which one of three Murray households do you descend from? Have you made much headway with the children? I have been in touch with the new archive centre in Hawick, but they were unable to help me – much as they tried.

Your comments about the retrospective entries in the OPRs are interesting. My recollection of the baptism register is that it was more legible than many others that I have seen, and that there were several baptisms conducted by ministers of the AS. But maybe these represent a tiny proportion of the Seceder births. I shall have another scan through them this evening. Were the baptisms of George’s children entered in the correct years or much later?

It would be fascinating to read through a sermon or two. Do you by any chance have any typed up that you could email to me? Do you know whether George was an Old or New Licht Burgher?

JAP – thank you for taking the time to investigate George Lawson’s spouses and children. It will be interesting to see where these entries appear in the register.

The diagram you refer to is invaluable in making some sense out of the numerous schisms.

Have you found any of your Seceder forebearers in the Buchlyvie records?

I think I’ll be hoping for that chance find in the attic too.

Justin
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JAP on Tuesday 07 August 07 09:21 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

Yes, I do have (courtesy of a very kind Australian lady who visited the Stirling Archives) records of some of my forebears (or at least relatives) from the Buchlyvie records.  But some that I really would like to have (including my Ggggma's birth/baptism) are, of course, in the missing volume and are not recorded in the Kippen OPR ...

The 1834-45 Statistical Account for the Parish of Kippen says that the Parish church at Kippen has room for 800 sitters, and that the United Secession meeting house at Buchlyvie (built 1751) has room for 400-500 sitters - so there were certainly plenty of Seceders!  And feelings ran high!

I've quoted the following before but will do so again; it is an extract from:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/scottish_life8.htm
' A worthy old Seceder used to ride from Gargunnock to Buchlyvie every Sabbath to attend the Burgher kirk. One day as he rode past the parish kirk of Kippen, the elder at the plate accosted him, "I’m sure, John, it’s no’ like the thing to see you ridin’ in sic a doonpour o’ rain sac far by to thae Seceders. Ye ken the mercifu’ man is mercifu’ to his beast. Could ye no’ step in by?" "Weel," said John, "I wadna care sae muckle about stablin’ my beast inside, but it’s anither thing mysel’ gain’ in." '

Best of luck,

JAP
PS: Googling seems to find lots about George LAWSON including an extract in Google Books.  He seems to have been rather idiosyncratic with many stories about him e.g. a) one day he took a hat from the hatrack, placed it on his head, and stepped out the front door - fortunately he was noticed before he proceeded down the street as he had donned a lady's bonnet, and b) the housekeeper coming to him in great panic and telling him the chimney was on fire to which his response was to dismiss her saying sternly that she should know that household matters were solely the responsibility of Mrs Lawson.   
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: Alexandrina on Wednesday 08 August 07 09:37 BST (UK)
Hi Justin and Jap,

Here is the link to information on the discussion group regarding George Lawson at Selkirk.

http://freestgeorges.blogspot.com/2006/09/george-lawson-of-selkirk-ix-gathered.html

Here is a sermon:

http://www.sounddoctrine.net/Classic_Sermons/George%20Lawson/GOD_agency_in_War.htm

http://freestgeorges.blogspot.com/2006/09/george-lawson-of-selkirk-ix-gathered.html

Here is a sermon:

http://www.sounddoctrine.net/Classic_Sermons/George%20Lawson/GOD_agency_in_War.htm

A review of book:

THE HISTORY OF JOSEPH
46 Expository Lectures on the Life of the Patriarch
George Lawson

GEORGE LAWSON (1749-1820) was an especially gifted writer of biblical narrative, and he is at his very best in this large volume on the life of Joseph.

"Dr. Lawson had a fertile mind, and a heart alive both to the human and divine side of truth. He writes with pleasing simplicity of style. One of the highest compliments to this book is found in the fact that a distinguished American scholar issued much of it as his own." - C.H. Spurgeon 'Commenting & Commentaries'
(Think this is the same George Lawson, not confirmed)


http://www.swordofthelord.us/Library/Pink/Booklets/God's-agency-in-war.html

This one is the link that JAP mentioned about George Lawson's personality- I think:

http://www.fullbooks.com/Reminiscences-of-Scottish-Life-and-Character7.html

Google Books link is too long to paste here, however excellent, can send in email.

Just click the Chapters and then the forward arrow to view the pages that they have online.

Amazon sell a hard copy for about $25

The Life and Times of George Lawson With Glimpses of Scottish Character from 1720 to 1820
By John Macfarlane

Would certainly shed light on the Selkirk and our kin folk therein during that specific period.

My Murrays were listed in 1817, there were more there at that time however they were probably tenants in other people's houses.

Mine was Robert Murray who was a Tailer Burgess there, he had an enormous brood of children and married twice. His brother Andrew married Lillie Murray and they also had a lot of children although poor Andrew (who was also a musician and Tailer in Selkirk)  drowned during the storm on his way home from the kirk house in 1799. I suppose it was probably George's Church of seceders however will have to recheck register.

I found the greatest 'mess 'in the parish register to be during 1790's for some reason. You are correct though Justin in saying that there is legibility compared with some others, I also find there was a lot more information about the families too, however the copies I have seen are illegible during certain years , looks like the scribe wrote it with the toes of his feet in parts.

Where are you looking at your copy of the registers Justin?

Do you have a full transcript.?

My Robert Murray- Tailer Burgess had a James Murray who was an  INKLEWEAVER who married Elizabeth Hall in 1817. Elizabeth died in 1823,  they had a number of children who I have traced including Alexander Buchan Murray  b 1818 who married Agness Wylie in 1846 and John Murray b1822 who married Helen Moffat in 1851. I have all of their children and many of their respective marriages right down to our family who came to Australia from Selkirk and Glasgow in  1926 circa.

Many children are lost to us though in those dissenting registers.   They must be somewhere .... probably in LAwson archives....more research needed.

Will check your Walkers Justin.

My Grandmother's family were from Stirling JAP, Falkirk and Polmont. Also Isle of Skye, husband's family from Kippen.

Happy ancestor hunting...will let you know what I find

Cheers
Sandie (Alexandrina) :D
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JAP on Wednesday 08 August 07 10:31 BST (UK)
Hi Sandie,

Fascinating post!

Incidentally, Trystan has devised a way to shrink very long URLs which is specific to RootsChat.  See:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,134417.0.html

My people from Kippen are (with certainty) William MCLAUSE & Jean VASSIE.  The MCLAUSE name has turned into a sort-of one name study for me - I have nearly 100 variant spellings so far!

All the best,

JAP
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: Alexandrina on Wednesday 08 August 07 16:57 BST (UK)
Hello again Justin & Jap

Thank you for that JAP,

Also we have Paisley people as well, so will have to have another look now that we are looking for the Walkers. I know some of ours are Guthries.

I looked for the Walkers Justin, and found some possible leads.

Firstly did you consider that William Walker may have married twice?

I found William Walker aged 15-18 in 1818 in Selkirk.  He married Helen Inglis in 1818 around the same era that my Murrays were married in Selkirk.  Helen also known as Helen Ingles.

They had four children then I think she may have possibly died. Children may not have survived however we find

Robert 1819
Robert 1820
Alexander 1820
and James Walker 1822

William and Helen were married Banns read in both Selkirk and Melrose, which is quite close. Family seem to be from Bowden which is within walking distance of Selkirk just over the common I think. Perhaps some may contradict this, I looked on maps ages ago and Bowden was much closer to Selkirk town than many Selkirk districts were to each other.  You might find graves at Melrose Abbey or Old Kirk Yard Selkirk where Wallace declared for Scotland. Its in Scott's Place near Market Square if you live over there.

Marriage was 12/1/1818 in Melrose and  16/1/1818 in Selkirk

If Helen died then William may have married again to Margaret Cross. That was quite common as so many mums died in childbirth. I have Murrays marrying 3 times after death of wives etc.

Then he could have had another James if 1st James etc died then the other children.

As I said I found a family of Walkers in Bowden that could be them. Zillions of Walkers in Galashiels as it was centre of Manufacturing industry etc.

William Walker 1796 to Robert Walker and Elizabeth Stenhouse in Melrose.

Interestingly:  James Walker married Elizabeth or Eliza Lawson in 1855 8 December Old Church St Pancras London,

Only child on IGI is William Renny Walker, their 1st born  15/11/1856 Arbroath Angus. Perhaps she also died and James Walker married again too.

Also you will need to always look in Roxburghshire registers if you research in Selkirk as there is much tooing and froing and much overlapping of districts such as Lilliesleaf, Melrose Ladhope and Bowden just to name a few. I am no expert however after researching this area for 25 years I do know that Roxburghshire registers hold much valuable information for Selkirk researchers.
Could you let me know the names you have ...who was James' wife married in 1855, was it Elizabeth Lawson?

Did you look on NAS for Galloway and Walker Manufacturing?

Will keeo hunting..please send more info

Cheers
Sandie ;)
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 August 07 18:35 BST (UK)
Sandie,

You're incredible!

What is your source for his age in 1818?

The two attached files give you a pretty complete picture of what I know of my Walkers and William's wife's family. Well done for cross-checking some of my other posts.

I had not considered the possibility of William being previously married. But you're right it was very common. However, William was in Paisley no later than March 1822 (his first daughter with Margaret being born in December).

I can view the microfilm of the complete OPRs at the Mitchell Library. I assume that there are no other more complete versions.

The Melrose link is particularly interesting; I found this entry in the Melrose register - James Walker and Janet Sclater, had a son, William, baptised on 9 Jun 1797 in Melrose.

While looking through the baptism register yesterday, I noticed that George Lawson's predecessor, Rev. Andrew Moir, was very popular. A good third to a half of all baptisms in the 1760s were performed by him. Interestingly, he had his children baptised by AS ministers from Stow and Jedburgh.

I reallly appreciate your help and value your knowledge.

Justin

Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: Alexandrina on Friday 10 August 07 10:17 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

Have sent email and personal message yesterday as well as this tonight.

Shall check James Walker and Janet Sclater, I have lots of Murrays baptised at that Jedburgh Associate Session, always wondered if many came from Selkirkshire, looks like Rev Moir didn't mind the travelling, I wonder how long it took by carriage from Selkirk to Jedburgh & return.

Now back to William Walker. There should be information on him in the NAS if he was a manufacturer and the partners should have registered the business and done all the usual things legally. Much information can be gleaned that way if there is indeed archival material.

Also he would have been an apprentice originally or trained by his own father in that trade, so possibly Robert Walker in Melrose if this is them, may have also had a similar business.  You need to look for all Walkers in that trade in business at that time as sons often followed fathers into a similar trade/occupation /business etc.

Also their books journals and archives could be held in archives in NAS as well and you could also look in Renfrewshire archives in library there. Have you found the addresses of the factory etc?

Shall research more. Did you notice that William and Helen's children are not on IGI ?  This makes it more likely that they didn't register them with Church of Scotland, and that they are also dissenters and more likely to be related to your Walkers!

Shall read your PDF material Justin, thanks for sending all.
Cheers for now
Sandie
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: ibi on Saturday 25 August 07 11:03 BST (UK)
Does anybody know anything about the Associate Synod (the Burgher half of the Secession Church) in Selkirk, and specifically whether baptisms of dissenter families were recorded in the parish registers of the established church or wa there a separate register?

I know that Dr. George Lawson was the professor of divinity at the Divinity Hall (training college for ministers) in Selkirk from about 1782 till his death in 1820. The Statistical Accounts of Scotland for 1791-99 state, ‘There is in Selkirk, a meeting of Burgher Seceders, the only one in the country.’

The census of Selkirk conducted in 1817 recorded Dr. Lawson in Water Row with five others. They were presumably his wife and children, yet there are no baptisms in the OPRs.

Justin


It wasn't unkown for members of dissenting congregations to have an entry also made in the established church register, more so, in my experience, in the border counties compared to elsewhere.

See also the article in the August edition of the UK Your Family Tree.

It's near certain that this congregation kept their own register, but whether that has survived is a moot point.

Try a look at the LDS Catalogue, and also the on-line catalogue of the National Archives of Scotland, but just because there isn't an entry doesn't mean that the register hasn't survived, perhaps in private hands.

NAS have an ongoing project to list all such known register and kirk session material, established, secession, and non-conformist.  This will be part of their listing of all douments linked to a place, i.e. the main index will be by place, then will follow a listing of known material and its location.  Timescale is a year or three away.........

ibi

PS

A brief history of the presbyterian church in Scotland..........

And it is brief !!, - it takes a book to go into full detail.

Between the Reformation in 1559/60 and 1690 the control of the church changed hands on several occasions between the presbyterians and episcopalians

On the final and permanent restoration of presbyterianism in Scotland in 1690, the Episcopalians and the Cameronians (aka the Reformed Presbyterian Church - most of whom joined the Free Kirk in 1876) both chose to remain outside the Established Church of Scotland.

In 1733 the First Secession Church (aka "Associate Presbytery") broke away from the Established Church of Scotland.

In 1820 parts of subsequent schisms of the First Secession Church joined together as the United Secession Church ....... put that on one side for the moment

In 1761, the second major breakaway from the Established Church of Scotland was the Relief Church.

In 1847, the United Secession and Relief Churches came together to form the United Presbyterian Church, often referred to by the shorthand "UP".

Put that on one side for the moment

In 1843 there was the third major, and largest secession from the Established Church of Scotland resulting in the Free Church or Kirk of Scotland (properly and originally referred to as the Free Protesting Church of Scotland).

In 1900 the Free Church, except for the Free Presbyterians who'd broken away in 1892, and approx 150 Highland congregations whose chose to remain outside, united with the United Presbyterian Church to form the United Free Church.

In 1929 the United Free Church, all but those who remained outside as the United Free Continuing Church, rejoined the "Auld Kirk", i.e. the Established Church of Scotland

The SP OPR index is essentially an index of the Established Church records only.

The IGI contains a number of non-established church records, where LDS have been given access to the records.

For the sake of completeness, of the other two major schisms from the First Secession Church, one - the Burghers Auld Lichts rejoined the Auld Kirk in 1839, and most of the others - the Anti-Burgher Auld Lichts - joined the Free Kirk in 1852, with remainder continuing as the Original Secession Church, - there were approx 3,000 members in 1960.

There were also many, many other small secessions where a congregation or part thereof differed on a point of interpretation to the point where they went off and started their own congregation, sometimes linked to another secession church, but sometimes not.

The whole situation is also littered with a succession of "bear traps" in the sense of the day-to-day name used for a particular congregation differing from its full, formal name, e.g. "The Lifters" who had several congregations in Ayrshire and Lanarkshire, -

See http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html for a chart of the above, with due acknowedgement to this website.

ibi
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: ibi on Saturday 25 August 07 11:38 BST (UK)
A bit more about the Lifters...........

This relating to Kilmaurs "...dissension arose in the congregation about what seemed to them a matter of great importance, namely, whether the communion elements should be taken up by the presiding minister, before what is called the consecration prayer. They were divided into two parties denominated the lifters and the non-lifters; the latter contending that the elements should not be taken up in the hands of the minister, till he was about to distribute the bread and the wine set apart by prayer. The contention was so sharp, that Mr Smytane (the minister) renounced his connection with the Synod." There was also a Lifters congregation in Dalry.

And this from a couple of local histories.

"The Secessionists were those who had split in the 18th century from the established Presbyterian church. David Smyton or Smeaton had been 'called' to Kilmaurs, however he developed the belief that in the dispensation of the Sacrament, it was essential that the bread must be first lifted before being blessed. Such a small point was not taken very seriously by Smeaton and he fought hard for in his view Divine Authority would accept no latitude in this matter. The Weston Tavern was formetly Smyton's manse, built in 1740, however it was disposed of in 1789 upon his death. The 'Non-lifter' congregation built a meeting house and manse at Holland Green on the Fenwick Road. Tradition has it that Smyton forgot to 'lift the bread' at his first service following his victory in maintaining the possession of the Secession church in Kilmaurs. Robert Burns must have heard him preach and commented in a letter to Margaret Chalmers in 1787 that "The whining cant of love, except in real passion, and by a masterly hand, is to me as insufferable as the preaching cant of Old Smeaton, Whig minister at Kilmaurs."


ibi


Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JAP on Saturday 25 August 07 17:02 BST (UK)
...  See http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html for a chart of the above ... 

This reference has already been given - see response #4 dated 7 August.
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: alan14578 on Wednesday 18 June 08 20:58 BST (UK)
All the Dr LAWSON familes and Moirs are buried in the Auld Kirkyard Selkirk which I transcribed last year. It is now on CD with photographs of each headstone  and available from www.bordersfhs.org.uk for £10 plus p and p.
This burial ground is also the place where all the Murrays of Philiphaugh and Falahill have an ailse outlining their family history from AD 1280 to 1939 on various plaques.
It also includes the Murrays who were the maternal parents of Franklin d Rosseveldt .
One particular headstone is "To the memory of John Murray .He suffered great persecution for his opposition to episcopacy and to his strong attachments to the covenanting cause.He was a gentleman of singular piety and was chased from his house and heritage by the --- --oppression had all his goods driven to ye Mercat Cross and there sold."!!
   We look after them north of the border!!    alan
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: aricandec on Sunday 23 August 09 23:20 BST (UK)
All this talk of Dissenters may explain why I can't find the marriage of Andrew Haddon and Christian Ruecastle which should have happened at the end of 1771 (she dumped a Hawick man after the banns were called in Sepr.1771) and went off and presumably married as the subsequent children (1772 onward) were to the lawfully wedded...! and born in Selkirk, Edinburgh and Paisley.
Enid
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: ibi on Wednesday 26 August 09 14:37 BST (UK)
All this talk of Dissenters may explain why I can't find the marriage of Andrew Haddon and Christian Ruecastle which should have happened at the end of 1771 (she dumped a Hawick man after the banns were called in Sepr.1771) and went off and presumably married as the subsequent children (1772 onward) were to the lawfully wedded...! and born in Selkirk, Edinburgh and Paisley.
Enid

Enid

While it's certainly possible that your ancestor was a dissenter it's also possible that the record just hasn't survived.

Have a look at the OPR section on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk .  Go into the Help section and you will find a listing of the dates for which Established CoS records exist for the parishes of interest.

ibi
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: aricandec on Wednesday 26 August 09 16:21 BST (UK)
Don't really think that family group were Dissenters as all their children were christened in the CoS church.  I think - as you suggest - that the registers were deficient OR just as possible, they were married OK but refused to pay to have their names entered.  That apparently was very common practice around that period as the church /govenrment were (once again) trying to raise money by taxing necessary items and their subjects were registering their displeasure by not paying up.  I may say, that I can't locate his mother's second marriage either to John Dunn between 1747 and 1750, but again the subsequent children all appear in the register!
Enid
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: ibi on Wednesday 26 August 09 16:25 BST (UK)
Don't really think that family group were Dissenters as all their children were christened in the CoS church.  I think - as you suggest - that the registers were deficient OR just as possible, they were married OK but refused to pay to have their names entered.  That apparently was very common practice around that period as the church /govenrment were (once again) trying to raise money by taxing necessary items and their subjects were registering their displeasure by not paying up.  I may say, that I can't locate his mother's second marriage either to John Dunn between 1747 and 1750, but again the subsequent children all appear in the register!
Enid

Enid

Have a search here on RC for one of the several threads dealing with the subject of irregular marriages.

ibi
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JennyMK on Thursday 12 March 15 14:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Justin

I am trying to get in contact with a childhood friend (from the Wedekind family), whom you have referenced in your Walker and Cross document. I have tried various social media sites to no avail.

I am aware that you are not able to give out personal details for any living people on RootsChat and this is also quite a long-shot but am wondering wether you do actually have any contact details for this family.

If you did - could you perhaps pass my details on to them ?

Thanks
Jenny


Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JustinL on Friday 13 March 15 09:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenny,

I sent you two private messages. The second one did not go through as your inbox is full apparently.

In that second message I said that Mike Wedekind (my late Dad's cousin) has a public family tree on ancestry. He logged in last month! If you have a subscription you can send him a message directly.

Take care, Justin

PS I'll still ask my mum about Val.
Title: Re: Selkirk Dissenters / the Associate Synod / Dr. George Lawson
Post by: JennyMK on Friday 13 March 15 12:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Justin

Wow - it was so good to see your reply!   I was good friends with Jane at Junior school - they lived next door but one to us when they were in England. I visited Jane once as teenager after they returned to Calgary but lost touch after that. My brother was a friend of Scott's.

I am going to Banff on Holiday at Easter (flying to Calgary) which is why I thought of trying to look them up again now.

If you can get any contact details for Val that would be fantastic, I will also try Ancestry for Mike as you suggest. (nb. I have deleted the 1 message in my inbox which was using up all the space - so you should be able to message me again now.)

Thank-you!

Cheers
Jenny