RootsChat.Com

General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: PabloC on Tuesday 05 June 07 00:05 BST (UK)

Title: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: PabloC on Tuesday 05 June 07 00:05 BST (UK)
Evening,

I'm trying to obtain info on two of my great-grandfathers who fought in WW1. I have obtained copies of their Medal Cards via the National Archive, but I was wondering just how much I can find out about them, given the information that I have?

Name: Cuddy, Enoch
Corps: Loyal North Lancs Reg   Rank: Corporal Regtl No. 17979
Corps: Labour Corps   Rank: Private Regtl No. 261778
Victory Roll LC/101 B93 Page 9396
British Roll LC/101 B93 Page 9396
15 Star Roll LC/47 (10c69 Page 106/9
Theatre France
Date of Entry 25-09-15
Remarks CL-Z 27-4-19

and...

Name: Jordan, Luke
Corps: RFA   Rank: Driver Regtl No. 171677
Victory Roll RFA/276 BPage 35202
British Roll RFA/276 BPage 35202

How do I make the most out of this info?! Is the information contained within the Roll available online anywhere? Any pointers would be appreciated!!



Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: bernard_lewis on Tuesday 05 June 07 10:46 BST (UK)
Not an expert in this area but the rolls are not on line. If you go to Kew and track the entries down I think they can sometimes give a little more info (e.g. maybe a battalion number).

If you get a battalion number (for the infantry man) you would be able to get a copy of the unit war diary from Kew (fee) - they are in WO95 records and you'd need to track down the one you need from the NA website (not the most user friendly). The diary would give a day by day account of what the unit did/where it went. Unlikely to name your man.

There is a chance that the men's service records survive (60+% destroyed by bombing in WW2). For what that might show see the examples on my site under Butler and Billington (on the front page, but these chaps never got overseas).

I suspect that the first chap served with the infantry and was then wounded or injured and so transferred to the Labour Corps.

Others will know more than me!

Bernard

http://swanseabattalion.net/
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 05 June 07 11:05 BST (UK)
PabloC
Ill have a go at the MICs
Enoch Cuddy 17979 Loyal North Lancs
261778 Labour Corps
Entitled to British War Medal,Victory Medal and 1915 Star

Entered France 25-9-15
Looks like he survived and was demobbed to Class Z reserves(liable to recall if Armistice went pear shaped) on 27-4-19

You will probably find his entry to theatre date will tie him to particular division and Batt(possibly 25th Div 8th  or 9th Batt which deployed to France between 25th-30th Sept
1915)

They were formed at Preston 1914.
As Bernard suggests possibly injured so transferred away from frontline duties to Labour Corps.
Is there an x next to One of the Regiments this normally denotes Reg that was stamped on his medals.

Luke Jordan.
Driver Royal Field Artillery 171677
Entitled to Victory and British War Medal so it looks like he was a post 1916 conscript or at least didnt gon overseas until 1916 or later as no 1915 Star awarded.

Bernard has given you the info on the Rolls they do (Usually!!) contain info such as the Battalion or Battery so worth viewing or getting someone to view and photo.

Hope this helps.

Ady
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: PabloC on Tuesday 05 June 07 13:13 BST (UK)
Cheers for the advice.

As regards my Great-grandfather Enoch....it's quite strange....

I found this Index Card just by chance whilst searching for the Luke Jordan one. As you can imagine, Enoch Cuddy is not the most common of names at all, and the only two entries I've found on Ancestry or in the BMD to date are for Enoch Cuddy (1880 - 1927), verified as my Great-grandfather, and his son Enoch, my grandfather.

No one in my family was even aware that he fought in the war, let alone might have been injured. Might he have been transferred to the Labour Corps given that he was relatively older?

Oh, just a quick question for Bernard.....

Was there such a Welsh regiment as the Swansea Border Regiment? My Grandfather always used to say that his father Joseph Bennett (born in Pontadawe, from what I can tell, around 1895, although could be 1893, given conflicting census/birth data) fought with them during WW1 ??

Paul

Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 05 June 07 13:46 BST (UK)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3djoseph%7clast_name%3dbennett%7ccorpname%3dsouth%20wales%20borderers&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*


Could be South Wales Borderers on link above.

He could have moved to Labour Corps if he was "older" many men transferred as they were unfit for frontline duties through wounds or sickness later on in war Battalions were disbanded and men supplied to other Regiments/Corps.

Ady
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: bernard_lewis on Tuesday 05 June 07 16:37 BST (UK)
Agree with Ady; South Wales Borderers as there is no Swansea Border Regiment. There was a Swansea Battalion (Welsh Regiment) but he's not on my (incomplete) nominal roll.

Bernard

http://swanseabattalion.net/
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: PabloC on Tuesday 05 June 07 20:39 BST (UK)
Evening,

Actually, something's just come back to me...

My Grandad used to tell me that his dad served with the 'same regiment who fought at Rorke's Drift'.

This would appear to be the South Wales Borderers.

Paul
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: bernard_lewis on Tuesday 05 June 07 22:33 BST (UK)
The regimental museum is at Brecon. You can probably turn it up on Google.

Bernard
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: PabloC on Wednesday 06 June 07 21:04 BST (UK)
Cheers for the the National Archive link 'mmm45'.

I think I may have a potential match. I took a look and there were four entries: 3 Ranks of Private, and one of Acting Warrant Officer Second Class. Decided to see if I could gain any more info from my family, however small, and my mum recalled that she seemed to remember that he wrote of 'men under his command' in a diary that my uncle still has. My great aunt then commented that she seemed to remember that he was a Sergeant Major.

Just hoping that there might be a record of his Regimental No. somewhere in this diary or on the back of a photo he apparently kept, to be sent to his wife, which is still around somewhere, should he not return.

Fingers crossed. Ha ha. Cheers for the pointers and advice!

Paul
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: PabloC on Wednesday 06 June 07 22:40 BST (UK)
Evening,

Just found out a little more! My great aunt called saying she'd found a photo/postcard with her father and two other soldiers on it addressed to a friend in Swansea, which had the following written on it:

'3rd SW Borderers'

On the strength of this I ordered the MIC I thought might be his, which contains the following:


Name: Bennett, Joseph
Corps: South Wales Borderers   Rank: Private Regtl No. 11053
Corps: South Wales Borderers   Rank: *a/WO.Cl 2 Regtl No. 11053
Victory Roll *g/1/101 B3 Page 297
British  Roll   - do -          - do -
14 Star Roll g/1/6 Page 15
Theatre
Date of Entry 01-10-14

Am I right in thinking that the 'B3' within the roll section relates to a battalion or brigade, and from this I can find out where they were posted via regimental history sites etc? What could the asterisk mean?

Also, I'm told that for whatever reason, he never received a pension after the War, even though he suffered from gas poisoning and it's continued effects. From this, I presume there will be discharge papers????

Sorry for all the questions, just new to this and really keen to find out as much as I can!!

Paul





Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: bernard_lewis on Thursday 07 June 07 12:50 BST (UK)
B3 is a reference to the medal rolls - at Kew you use this to translate which roll your man appears on.

The Battalion is the 3rd Battalion of the South Wales Borderers - I'm saying 3rd as that is what is on the postcard (3rd SWB) - I think it unlikely that the man who wrote the card got that wrong.

Pension records for the letter B are now on Ancestry web site - there might be a free offer for a limited period or maybe someone with access can look it up for you (your local library might have it). I don't think all records survived.

For a glimpse of what MIGHT be found see the front page of my site and look at the options Butler and Billington - 2 good records sets for men who never even got overseas!

Not a medal expert but 'date of entry' is the date he went abroad - October 1914 so I think he was a regular; or a territorial soldier who was called up - brand new volunters took longer than 2 months to train.

I'm not sure of which brigade but goto:

1914-1918.net (not sure if this will work but if you google it it should pop up).

and you can look it up - follow the British Army and then infantry etc. links. Fairly easy.

Bernard

http://swanseabattalion.net/
Title: Re: Trying to obtain info on my Great-grandfathers
Post by: PabloC on Thursday 07 June 07 16:10 BST (UK)
Cheers for the help Bernard.

I'm actually subscribed up to Ancestry, but have, so far been unable to find a likely pension/discharge record.

Nevermind, I'll keep looking!! My great-aunt seems to think that my uncle actually has his medals, so that might help me out lots,

Regards

Paul