RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: WoodElf on Wednesday 06 June 07 10:07 BST (UK)
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Hiya, ;)
My stepfather is having trouble finding information on his paternal grandfather, Arthur Pannell (seeing as he is computer illiterate :P). All we know is his death on the 8th Sep. 1968 in Naracoorte, South Australia and his wife, Florence Bridget (maiden name unknown). The insurmountable difficulty is that we do not know his birth date and his parents name.
I think that there may be an added factor to not being able to find information. When Florence died in 1941 after childbirth, she was Catholic and her husband, Arthur was not. In her will she expressly stated that her children be put in an orphanage and become wards of the state because Arthur was not Catholic and "could not look after the children". I don't know if that stops you from finding information, because with the whole adoption privacy thing.
Ciao!!
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Hi
This could be Arthur's birth reg
PANNELL Arthur 31.12.1891
Father Arthur James PANNELL
Mother Bridget Mary WHITE
at Mt Gambier Ref: Gre 492/142
Cheers
cando
edit- This could be your step gt grandfather's birth - too many Arthur PANNELL's ;)
What was Arthur's age at in 1968 when he died?
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Nope... I don't reckon that's helpful!
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Hi
Here is another birth of another Arthur
PANNELL Arthur William 30 July 1916
Father Arthur James
Mother Mary Florence NOOLAN
at Mt Gambier Ref Gre 983/366
cheers
cando
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That would not fit the time frame
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Deleted - posted before completion of data ???
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Hope its successful!!
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I have checked the death in 1968 and he was 70 - and this is the only birth that fits the time frame.
PANNELL Arthur 22.3.1898
Father George
Mother Annie HAASE
as Penola Ref Gre 619/322
It would have been helpful if you had provided the age at the date of death in 1968 - it was slightly misleading mentioning a wife's death in 1941 with chn;D
cando
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Thank you very much. Sorry for being misleading.. I makes sense now!
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Now if that is the correct one I have found a lot more chn born to this couple - including Annie's full name Annie Caroline Bertha HAASSE - the other spellings are HAASE.
Would you like the other chn's details.
cando
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Thank you.. Yes I would love to know the other children's name
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Well we got there eventually ;D
Chn of George PANNELL and Annie Caroline Bertha HAASSE - all at Penola also HAASE
PANNELL George Frederick 29 Aug 1886 Gre 382/179
PANNELL Garnet Wolsley 25 Feb 1890 Gre454/244
PANNELL Florence 17 Nov 1892 Gre 512/42
PANNELL Frank Edward 26 Jun 1895 Gre 567/276
PANNELL Johanna May 19 May 1901 Gre677/261
Here is their marriage - entered in the index as CANNELL - bit of a search :(
PANNELL George 26 yrs Single Father James 30 Dec 1885
=
HAASE Annie 21 yrs Single Father Frederick
at Residence of A J Pannell, Mt Gambier
Gre 145/354
Cheers
cando
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Thank you for your time and efforts.. ;D
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Well done finding this marriage Cando, ;D
It does take a fair bit of time and effort especially if you have to troll through the indexs. Folks don't often realize whats involved in helping them find the relo's
regards jenn
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Nope... I don't reckon that's helpful!
Oh and meant to say thats this sort of comment often turns people off helping search for relationship
Regards Jenn
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Sorry, it wasn't intended that way.. ???
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How would you be able to get hold of South Australian birth, deaths and marriages indexes?
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hello there
they are not on line but a number of us have them also some local library depending on where you are
regards jenn
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How would you be able to get hold of South Australian birth, deaths and marriages indexes?
If you are interested in buying any of them, you can do so through the South Australian Genealogy and Heraldy Society. You can find more information on their website .... www.saghs.org.au/
.......dee
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Can you access it through LDS centres?
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Sorry - no. Only through SAGHS at their library in Unley, South Australia, other libraries that have the Indexes in Australia, and from the published indexes on CDs, books or microfiche.
.....dee
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Oh well... Thanks
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Annie Caroline Bertha Pannell buried at Penola in 1956 aged 91
Garnett also. 1961
Arthur appears to be at Naracoorte
Florence Bridget Pannell 1941 at Murray Bricge aged 38
Sue
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think that there may be an added factor to not being able to find information. When Florence died in 1941 after childbirth, she was Catholic and her husband, Arthur was not. In her will she expressly stated that her children be put in an orphanage and become wards of the state because Arthur was not Catholic and "could not look after the children". I don't know if that stops you from finding information, because with the whole adoption privacy thing]
were the children put into homes? didn't arthur have any rights as the father?
regards jenn
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Hi
I have re-read the post and wondering what info you are looking for -
I think you may want details of Arthur's and Florence Bridget's marriage as you aren't aware of her surname.
MARRIAGE
PANNELL Arthur 33 S 7 Jul 1937 Father George PANNELL
=
McCABE Florence Bridget 28 S Father John Joseph McCABE
at Catholic Presbytery, Murray Bridge Ref: Pin 328/54
Now this is a bit interesting
PANNELL Frank Edward 32 S 12 Dec 1927 Father George PANNELL
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McCABE Elizabeth May 26 S Father John Joseph McCABE
at St Pauls Presbytery, Mount Gambier Ref Gre 313/874
Two brothers married two sisters.
Arthur's sisters' marriages
PANNELL Florence 27 S 10 Feb 1920 Father George PANNELL
=
CAIN William Anthony 25 S Father Alfred John CAIN
at St Pauls Church, Mount Gambier Ref Gre 282/420
PANNELL Johanna May 24 S 2 Jan 1926 Father George PANNELL
=
PATTERSON Charles Stewart 29 S Father James PATTERSON
at St Andrews Presbyterian Church, Penola Ref Gre 304/19
Are you aware that births are only available to 1928, marriages to 1937 and deaths to 1972. Now bearing that in mind what other lookups can we do for you?
We can often track deaths through burial records that are available online on various sites.
Hope this info is of some help.
Cheers for now
Cando
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Hi
Heres a bit more from
http://www.saghs.org.au
Surname: PANNELL, Frank Edward. Personal Notice in Advertiser 1982.
There are a number of Pannell's on the death and burial indexes on this site. Your step father may recognise some of the names.
Cheers
Cando
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Golly gosh, thanks! ;D
Arthur had no rights to looking after the children. He would often go to the orphanage trying to catch a glimpse of them but was denied access. After many years of searching he found two sons, George and Brian. Recently another sister was found, Claire, she lives in England with her husband and son. Another daughter died in 1964 of a car accident, I cannot remember the name. Florence, gave birth to a boy called Denis before she died but he was adopted as a baby. The other children grew up in the orphanage, Denis was the only child adopted out. If I remember rightly there was also another sister.
I appreciate your offer Cando. I was wondering if you could access any records relating to the father of George, James and his mother. For example: Births, marriages, deaths or if he immigrated to Australia and when. Also if there is more information on Annie's parents, Frederick etc.
All of you in this forum have really helped to fill in a blank in my stepfather's side of the family. My stepfather is extremely happy with the information. Thanks for all your generous help! :)
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Hi -
From http://www.familysearch.org/
PANNELL James Grier
Birth: 18 Nov 1830
Baptism : 12 Dec 1830 Mint Lane-Wesleyan Methodist, Exeter, Devon, ENG
Parents: William PANNELL Ann GRIER
From BISA [Not always 100% accurate]
PANNELL Jas Grier b: 1831 d: 1.3.1863 Mt Gambier SA
occ: Joiner res: Mt Gambier
m: Unknown ch: Florence Louisa [1861-1864]
MARRIAGE
PANNELL James Grier FL S [Parents unrecorded]
=
TAYLOR Mary FL S [Parents unrecorded]
at Wesleyan Chapel, Adelaide Ref Ade 16/234
BIRTHS to James Grier PANNELL and Mary Louisa TAYLOR
PANNELL Frank 2.1.1856 at North Adelaide Ref Ade 5/269
PANNELL Arthur James 20.9.1857 at North Adelaide Ref Ade11/148
PANNELL George 11.10.1859 at North Adelaide Ref Ade 15/214
PANNELL Florence Louisa 6.11.1861 at North Adelaide Ref Ade 20/224
You have details of George's marriage to Annie HAASE
From BISA
HAASE Frederick b: c1839 Prussia? d:after 1870 Penola SA arr: 1859 HELENE occ: Tinsmith, Coppersmith res: Angaston, Penola
m: Joannah Helene nee SAUER Par: J. Fried and Anna Elis nee STEIN b.1836 arr: 1858 SOPHIE
ch: Agnes Bertha Ja HEMMINGS [1860-1944]
BIRTHS to Frederick HAASE and Johanne SAUER
HAASE Agnes Bertha Johanna 9.7.1860 at Adelaide Ref Ade 15/401
HAASE Gustev Theodore 26.3.1862 at Adelaide Ref Ade 20/329
HAASE Caroline Bertha Anna 9.8.1864 at Mt Gambier Ref Gre 45/277
HAASE Johanne Charlotte 20.9.1868 at Mt Gambier Ref Gre 67/486
That should keep you going for a while. ;D
Cheers
Cando
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Here is James with parents on the 1841 census
Residing at St Paul Street, Exeter, Devon
PANNELL William 50 Carpenter
PANNELL, Ann 50
PANNELL William 15
PANNELL Sarah 15
PANNELL James 10
All born in county.
Ref: HO107/267/10 Folio 6/Pge 25
Cheers
Cando
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That's great! Yes, this is gonna keep me going!!
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http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi
Looking here you will see more information from another researcher about James Grier [senior & junior] and further marriage and sibling information.
It is only as reliable as the contributor and his/her sources, but may build on what Cando & others have found.
You may be able to make contact with the submitters.
Sue
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Hey Sparrett,
Thanks for the site. There are a lot of Pannell's in the Mount Gambier region. I guess my stepfather may be related to all of them!
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Hello I have just registered to this side looking for information on my mums side and stumbled on this. Your stepfather would be my uncle and born late September 1941; he was the youngest of 6 children. His siblings would have been George my father. Born January 1932. Brian. Joyce. Kathryn or Kathleen and Claire. His mother is buried at Murray Bridge and I have her lease.
I maybe too late with this information but would like to know more.
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Hi Joyce :)
Welcome to rootschat :)
WoodElf has been logged in since your post so hopefully she will respond.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks. Sorry thought it was about the adopted bother but you may be able to help. The jolly family are having a huge family book written next year and needed some dates the date I needed was when terry married his first wife.
Would be interested to know more about the pannell though.
Cheers
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Joyce I am not a family member but a forum member who tries to help others with their research. We are not permitted to name or post any research about a living or possibly living person. Is Terry living?
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
I've PM'ed Joyce.
Thanks,
Sarah
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:) :)