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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: fleck on Friday 15 June 07 17:11 BST (UK)
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Hi:
I am looking for George Affleck b. abt 1855 (Father's Name George)
I have much US documentation. His Naturalization Papers say he immigrated in 1873 Port of New York. His census records indicate immigration in 1869 and 1870.
I have been unable to find him in 1869 port arrivals.
I have been unable to find an 1871 Scottish Census record.
I have been unable to find an 1870 US Census record.
I am starting to think he left home in 1869 and arrived in NY in 1870 and PA in 1873.
If so, there would not be an 1871 Census record in Scotland and there might not be an 1870 census record in the US if he was at sea while the census records were recorded.
Could someone look in the 1861 Census index for Affleck and see if there is a child George son of George approximately 5 - 6 years old? I think he was born in Jun or July of 1855.
None of his records indicate a town of origin.
Rumor has it that the family came from the Edinburgh area, however, my Scottish Geography is quite poor and the rumor is so removed from the original ancestor that I do not put much faith in it.
I found a reference in an 1861 Census Index to:
George Affleck abt 1834 Roxburghshire
George Affleck abt 1854 Roxburghshire
I am wondering if they are Father and Son and I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how I might confirm a link if one exists.
Can someone pull this record and provide the details for me including the source info in case I want to pull the original? I would really appreciate it. This person is my GG Grandfather and my only link to the old world within my actual Family Name. He is the key to my Affleck Roots.
Thanks.
Mark Affleck 1969 Philadelphia PA USA
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Hi,
There are 2 Georges that I can see in the 1861 with George as a father.
First one
George Affleck...head..age 44..brn Parton Kirkcudbright...Ag Servant
Annie Affleck.wife..age 31..brn Kirkgunzeon, Kirkcudbright
Agnes Affleck..daur..age 13...brn Troqueer, Kirkcudbright
George Affleck..son..age 11..brn Troqueer, Kirkcudbright
Marion Affleck..daur..age 4..brn Troqueer
William Affleck..son..age 3..brn Troqueer
Living at Back Casslehill, Kirkcudbrightshire
Second one
George Affleck...head..age 27..brn Hawick ,, Roxburghshire...Woolen stockingmaker
Helen Affleck..wife..age 39..brn Jedburgh, Roxburgh...housewife
George Affleck..son..age 7..brn Hawick
Joseph Affleck..son..age 2..brn Hawick
There was also a Helen Maxwell (37), Helen Messer (15) and a David Murray (7) living with them as boarders at 6 Kirkgate Hawick.
Susan
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;D
Thank you so much.
The Roxburgshire record seems closer to his listed age.
I am wondering how close to Edinburg these two locations are. I did a google and it looked as though Roxburgshire was relatively close.
Any idea on how to link this record to the new world?
I suppose a birth record will simply confirm the Scottish census record. Maybe I can tie a sibling back?
This is great help. Very kind of you.
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There is a Joseph Affleck naturalized in Philadelphia in 1880 just two months from George Affleck's Naturalization in Philadelphia. They are both listed as minors upon arrival.
This is another nice clue.
George's In Laws were stocking sewers.
George is listed as working in Worley's Mill.
Maybe a textile mill? Philadelphia had a leading textile industry at the time.
This is looking good.
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Hi Fleck
Also on the positive side for the Hawick family is that there is no death of a Helen Affleck/Brokie showing on Scotlands People, the official pay to view BMD site. It;s easier to search for married women as you can use both married and maiden surnames.
There is an entry for the marriage/banns for George and Helen Brockie on 10 DEC 1852 Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland
I can see George Jnr and wife in the 1880 census with two young sons. Do you know the names of all his children and whether the name Helen (Ellen etc.) may have been one of them?
Regards.
Monica
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Actually, that 1880 census says woolen mill not Worley si=o he was in textile afterall.
I did see the Dec 10 1852 marriage record.
Apparently there is a Helen Affleck Widow burried here in Germantown PA. I wonder if there is a death record of her husband in Scotland?
George Married Elizabeth in 1876 on the Centennial.
July 3, 1876 in Philadelphia
His children:
Henry 1877
George 10-12-1879
*Joseph 9-24-1883*
Fannie May-1881
Samuel Aug-1895
Is Fannie a real name or a nickname?
We don't hear of to many Fannie's nowadays!!!
Henry was probably named for Elizabeth's Father Henry Rickard
George was probably named for his grandfather.
Joseph was probably named for the 2 year old on the 1861 census.
Samuel was named for Samuel Harmer Rickard. Elizabeth's brother. (He was witness on the Naturalization Paperwork).
They must have been tight.
I found a marriage record for Joseph Affleck in 1880.
He married Fannie Scherwood. So now we know where the name Fannie came from.
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Mark
Fannie/y can be a pet name for Frances, Euphemia, Stephanie. Do you know the name of Elizabeth's, wife of George, mother?
The only possible entry I could see on Castle Garden would be potentially George Affleck Snr. crossing alone (maybe he went out first and family followed?):
George Afleck Stock Raiser / Maker (I wondered whether this was some mistranscription of his 1861 occupation - Woolen Stocking maker)age 29 Arrived: 28 Mar 1864 Origin: Scotland Ship: Escort
....However, just thought to check the 1871 Census and found the family still here (either George Snr. went and came back before the whole family went over, or they didn't leave until after this date):
George Afflick 37, Weaver (stockrigh), b. Hawick
Helen Afflick 40, b. Jedburgh, Rox
George Afflick 16, Stocking Weaver, b. Hawick
Joseph Affleck 12
Address: North Side Of Village Townfoot, Ancrum, Rox
Maybe you could try posting on the emigrants board here on RootsChat to see whether anyone with access to other databases could find the family's crossing to the US, see www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,164.0.html
Regards.
Monica
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Just checked 1881 and 1891 - no sign of the family in Scotland. Also no obvious deaths for George and Joseph, children, (in their age ranges) showing at any time.
Looking good :)
Regards.
Monica
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This is excellent news.
Firstly, the cencus record in 1871 shows that the 1861 age of Helen incorrectly transcribed. The 39 should be 29.
That makes more sense.
Now I can search for and obit. on Helen in Germantown.
Also, the immigration year for George was recorded as 1866, 1869 and 1873 in different places. We just ruled out 1866 and 1869.
So I need a Castle Garden record from 1873.
I think I will post a request as you suggested.
By the way, Elizabth's mother was Mary Ann Harmer,
Thanks greatly for the followup.
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I can see a George Alfeck, a weaver, arriving at Castle Garden in 1873, but again can't see any family with him. As before, the age would match the previous census age (in 1871):
George Alfeck Weaver 39 M 7 Feb 1873 Scotland Siberia
Let's see if something comes back from your new post on the emigrants' board.
I think I found Helen and George Snr. before their marriage in earlier censuses last night when I was searching around. Take care with Helen, I think her age might be closer to the 1851 entry. I'll go back and find the earlier entries for them and post. If it all pieces together, then you will have their census entries in hand.
Regards.
Monica
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Interesting that the same record is on Castle Garden and Boston records.
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This looks like a likely entry for George, with father George in 1841. The spelling transcription is questionable:
George Affbert 35, W S M J (at a guess Woolen/Weaver Stocking maker Journeyman?) b. Scotland
George Affbert 7, b. in the county
Address: Hawick Westport, Hawick Rox
In 1851, George is lodging in a mixed household:
George Affleck 16, Woollen Framer Work Knitter, b. Hawick
Address: Slitrig Crescent Foot, Hawick Rox
For Helen Brockie, these were the possibilities I could see for her in 1841/51:
1841:
Helen Brockie, house servant, 20*, b. in the County
Address: Greatridgehall, Makerstoun, Roxburghshire
* Ages in the 1841 census are supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 yrs for everyone over 15. So, Helen could have been anywhere from 20-24
And the nearest I could see in 1851:
Ellen Brockie 38, house servant, b. Jedburgh
Address: Earlston, Berwickshire
Mark, George's age is more consistent across all censuses. As for Helen, it's up and down ::)
Regards.
Monica
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Father George (hopefully grandfather to your George) in 1851, with a bit more info about him (the 1841 census is limited in terms of detail, later censuses have more personal info):
George Affleck, Lodger, Widower, 49, Wlln Framework Knttr, b. Glasgow Lanarkshire.
Address: 10 Teviot Crescent, Hawick
Can't trace him after 1851 - I wonder if he died between 1851 and 1855 the start of official registration in Scotland. Pity if he did, it will be harder to find confirmation of his wife's name.
Regards.
Monica
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Excellent.
Sounds like Helen was a little sensative to the age issue.
Maybe she didn;t know her age.
I guess it is time to look at death records and tombstone / burial data.
I can't thank you all enough.
In the meantime, I am going to keep trying to find the rest of the immigration data.
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You said "Fannie can be a nickname for Euphemia"...
I found Euphemia Brockie in Castle Garden
First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Origin Ship
Euphemia Brockie Spinster 19 F 17 Jun 1872 Scotland Parthia
Helen's niece? Very interesting.
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Euphemia could well be a niece - well found! This is a possibility for her in the 1861 census:
James Brockie 40, Farm Steward, b. Jedburgh
Euphemia Brockie 40, b. Jedburgh
Joseph Brockie 17, b, Kelso
William Brockie 15, b. Jedburgh
James Brockie 13, Jedburgh
Richard Brockie 10, Makerstoun
Euphemia Brockie 8, b. Makerstoun
Address: Sandyknowe, Smailholm, Rox
Three ticks in my box ;) Father James also from Jedburgh; first born called Joseph like Helen's so looking likely that was the name of their father and Euphemia daughter fitting in age at the time of her travel to the US :)
Assuming parents' remained in Scotland, you hopefully will be able to find parents names (for Helen) from his death cert.
Monica
Added: James and wife Euphemia are still in Smailholm in 1881, so you should be able to find their deaths in Scotland - Brockie not that common a surname.
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This is the only child I can see showing on IGI for the parents of James Brockie:
MARGARET BROOKIE Christening: 27 APR 1828 Associate Congregation Or Free Church, Jedburgh, Roxburgh, Scotland
Parents:JOSEPH BROOKIE and ISABEL LAIDLAW
Given the family don't look to be Established Church of Scotland (Presbyterian), it will be hard to find Old Parish Register entries for them on SP.
Death entry for James:
1894 BROCKIE JAMES 73 KELSO /ROXBURGH 793/00 0050
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That's fabulous. Now I just need to get some death records.
If I had to guess I would say they are going to be non-conformist Church Baptists.
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You will need to find some death details your side to be able to verify this info...
Mark, I don't now think that Castle Garden entry for an Euphemia Brockie is the one that showed in the census with parents James and Euphemia in Roxburghshire.
On that 17 Jun 1872 sailing from Scotland on the ship Parthia were also the following BROCKIES:
Robert, 57 labourer
Mary, 58, matron
Ann, 32, Spinster
Charlotte, 27, Spinster
Margaret, 25, Spinster
Euphemia, 19, Spinster
Margaret, 6, Child, Youngster
But you know what, life is full of co-incidences, sometimes leading to lucky breaks. So whilst not a niece to Helen, it has led to another Euphemia and potentially Helen's brother and names for her parents :)
Life is strange sometimes ::)
Regards.
Monica
PS: When searching on Castle Garden, if you want to see if anybody with the same surname was also on the same sailing, take off the first name leaving just the surname. Then with the info from the crossing, chose the same options on the left hand side (date/place of origin/ship) and up should come anybody with the same surname on the manifest for that individual crossing.
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Ohhh what a tangled web !
Euphemia has turned up again.
I found the following 1851 record which shows Euphemia Affleck. Take a look at the occupation. We've seen that before.
George is 16 in another house. No wonder. With all those people in the house, I guess the oldest got a job and moved out.
Piece: SCT1851/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 10
Civil Parish: Hawick Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hawick Barony
Folio: 0 Page: 18 Schedule: 59
Address: Greenwynd
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
AFFLECK David Head M M 65 Wlln Framework Knttr Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
AFFLECK Margaret Wife M F 64 Wigtownshire - Wigtown County recorded as Galloway
AFFLECK Margaret Dau U F 33 Wlln Framework Knttr Wigtownshire - Wigtown County recorded as Galloway
AFFLECK Euphemia Dau U F 20 Dresser Wlln Hosiery Midlothian - St Cuthberts
Page: 0/19 AFFLECK Ann Dau U F 18 Dresser Wlln Hosiery Midlothian - St Cuthbert
AFFLECK David Grnson - M 10 Scholar (Pauper) Roxburghshire - Hawick
WALKER Margaret Lodger - F 11 Scholar (Pauper) Midlothian - St Cuthbert
WALKER Jessie Lodger - F 6 Scholar (Pauper) Perth - -
*** Ann shows as a daughter. David shows as grandson.
Piece: SCT1851/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Hawick Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hawick Barony
Folio: 0 Page: 12 Schedule: 52
Address: Slitrig Crescent Foot
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DICK Agnes Wife M F 28 Wlln Yarn Spinner Wife Roxburghshire - Hawick
NIVEN Thomas Brolaw U M 26 Wlln Hosiery Dresser Roxburghshire - Hawick
NIVEN William Brolaw U M 24 Wlln Framework Knttr Roxburghshire - Hawick
BELL Rodger Lodger U M 28 Wlln Framework Knttr Roxburghshire - Roberton
AFFLECK George Lodger U M 16 Wlln Framework Knttr Roxburghshire - Hawick
BEATTIE John Lodger M M 22 Wlln Framework Knttr Roxburghshire - Hawick
Piece: SCT1851/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Hawick Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hawick Barony
Folio: 0 Page: 15 Schedule: 51
Address: 10 Teviot Crescent
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MARCH Mary Head W F 50 Woollen Yarn Winder Fife - Dunfermline
MARCH Ann Dau U F 14 Wlln Factory Worker Midlothian - Edinburgh
MARCH Thomas Son - M 10 Scholar Roxburghshire - Hawick
AFFLECK George Lodger W M 49 Wlln Framework Knttr Lanarkshire - Glasgow
Piece: SCT1851/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 11
Civil Parish: Hawick Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hawick Barony
Folio: 0 Page: 5 Schedule: 17
Address: Loan
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
AFFLECK John Head M M 27 Wlln Framework Knitter Kirkcudbrightshire - New Abbey(Originally: Kirkcudbrightshire - Newabbey)
AFFLECK Jane Wife M F 25 Woollen Seamstress Roxburghshire - Hawick
Piece: SCT1851/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 10
Civil Parish: Hawick Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hawick Barony
Folio: 0 Page: 21 Schedule: 68
Address: Midrow
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MARCHBANK Jane Head W F 54 Wlln Hosiery Smstrss Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
MARCHBANK Samuel Son U M 23 Wlln Framework Knttr Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
MARCHBANK Henrietta Dau U F 18 Feeder Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
MARCHBANK Thomas Son - M 16 Wlln Framework Knttr Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
MARCHBANK David Son - M 14 Wlln Framework Knttr Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
MARCHBANK Margaret Dau - F 11 Scholar Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
MARCHBANK James Lodger U M 22 Wlln Framework Knttr Dumfries-shire - Dumfries
AFFLECK John Lodger U M 19 Wlln Framework Knttr Midlothian - Edinburgh
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This looks like George's Father and Granfather. This is a replay of an earlier record but the name is transcribed closer to the original.
Piece: SCT1841/789 Place: Hawick -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Hawick Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 13
Address: West Port Hawick
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
AFFLECT George M 35 Woollen Stocking Maker Jrnymn Outside Census County (1841)
AFFLECT George M 7 Roxburghshire
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Hello Mark
I have attached an image of the Parish record of the marriage between George's father and mother (George Affleck and Helen Brokie/Brockie).
The Affleck Surname DNA Project has been researching this lineage and is just about to post it on our website at affleckdna.com
I will send through to you the lineage prior to posting. We have a proven DNA result from a male descendant of a Roxburghshire Affleck from the lineage of John Fleckie c. 1665.
I would love to hear from you.
yours
Charles Affleck
Affleck Surname DNA Project