RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Westmorland => Topic started by: Jeffrey on Tuesday 19 June 07 13:20 BST (UK)
-
Hello,
Is any one out there researching 'JACKSON' of Bampton?
I have a Mary JACKSON who married John DENT of Kings Meaburn in 1776 at Temple Sowerby.
The only birth on the IGI which fits in is Mary Jackson born Bampton in 1753. It lists her father as John and mother as Mary.
Has any one any information on Jacksons of Bampton please.
Judy
-
Judy
I am not researching this family at all ...
BUT
there is a Jackson family in CR headed by a Simon Jackson and Elinor Dent. Simon was the miller (switching between CR and MM mills). In 1754 Simon was accused of rape and later absconded from gaol. (The then constable and the alleged victim were related I think.)
It seems that life in CR may have become untenable for his numerous family. I think at least two of his sons left CR. I haven't traced all the family but there was also a daughter Mary christened in 1744.
Most likely there is no connection with your Bampton Jacksons - Dent and Jackson being common names and all that. Just thought I would mention it.
regards
Deborah
-
Very interesting! I do have Dents around Crosby Ravensworth and an Elinor or two. Can you give me any more information about them and any more dates? How is it your know about that?
Also what does MM stand for?
Thanks
Judy
-
I'm doing a one-place study of CR and so Simon and Elinor get included for that.
MM = Maulds Meaburn.
Simon and Elinor's marriage takes place on 16 Jan 1735/6 at CR. Children John, Margaret, Elinor, Anthony, Mary, Simon, Robert, Elinor, Sarah are christened between 1736 and 1752.
I don't have Simon's parentage. There were Jacksons in CR and Orton. The bondsmen for his appearance at sessions were Henry Jackson of Lodge (I assume a relative - cousin?) and Anthony Dent (I assume his brother-in-law).
I have 2 possible contenders for Elinor but favour the Elinor christened in 1708 to Anthony Dent of Trainlands and Margaret [John or Simp]son. She receives a couple of bequests in wills. Her cousin is the other contender.
Simon was renting Crosby Mill between 1733 and 1746 (possibly beyond) but also seems to have rented the Meaburn Mill between 1736 and 1739.
The stuff about the rape is available from a2a. There may be more information than the references give.
regards
Deborah
-
Thanks for the information. Fascinating!
Don't know how I didn't remember MM being Maulds Meaburn.
Just something coming to mind - was there a Henry Dent living at Meaburn Mill in the 1800's or was that Kings Meaburn.
Looking at my Dents although some say born Meaburn I am sure it is Kings Meaburn which comes under Morland. However they are so close that they could be related.
I have an Eleanor born 1768 to a Matthew & Thamar. Names often follow in families so will have to try and get around to tracing this family further back. There are so many Dents!
If you should come across anything interesting on Kersey, Hanson, Nicholson, Wilkinson or Hodgson in you CR or Orton study I would be grateful if you would let me know.
Just a long shot I don't suppose you have anything on Abraham Hersey (Kersey) of Woodfoot Householder poor bur 1749 Feb 6
I am stuck with these Kersey's.
Thanks for all your help.
Judy
-
Judy
I don't have anything in my database about a Henry Dent around the time you mentioned. I think a reference to Meaburn usually refers to Kings Meaburn not MM. I think the conjunction of surnames is just a coincidence.
I also don't have any Kersey Hersey Hansen entries in the database. (I haven't got every one yet and I only go upto the early 1800s. It takes a long time to cover a single surname and only a few are complete.) On the other hand Nicholson, Wilkinson and Hodgson are very common names!
regards
Deborah
-
Hi Judy
Probably not on your IGI entry but John & Mary Jackson where "of Stanegarth" not sure if this would be a farm.
I have just added some Salkeld - CR & MM Parish Register Baptisms 1813 - 1884 nearly 70 entries to my rootschat website fruits of a good day out at Kendal Records Office last week
Hope the above helps
Regards
Graham
-
Hi Graham,
Thanks for the information.
In fact I have just looked "Stanegarth" up on streetmap and it still exists. It looks to be nothing in the middle of nowhere so I think it will be a farm too.
You said about some entries on your rootschat website - how would I go about opening your website?
Judy
-
Judy
I am pleased you have found Stanegarth on the map
To access a persons rootschat website bottom left next to your profile details a globe for anybody with a website try clicking on this or http://salkeld.rootschat.net/
I have quite a bit of Salkeld Crosby Ravensworth & Maulds Meaburn info on here in the Parish Section
Graham
-
Deborah, very interested in what you say about Simon Jackson of Crosby. His wife was definitely Eleanor Dent (daughter of Anthony Dent, born 1680, son of Robert Dent of Trainlands, Maulds Meaburn, my direct ancestor - my father still owns Trainlands). Anthony's sister Isabel Salkeld mentions her niece EleanorJackson in her will. Can you tell me more about Simon Jackson and what you have found of his family? What does a2a mean? Tell me more about your study of Crosby, I may be able to help.
Nick Dent
-
Hi Nick,
As Trainlands is still in your family, do you know of any Ellwood tenants that lived there?
Gillian
-
Nick
I've given pretty much all the information I have.
a2a is 'access to archives'. www.a2a.org.uk. The Cumbria Record Offices provide very good notes on their records. Most of the information I have on Simon Jackson is just pulled from this website. I would love to look at the original sources but I'm a long way from Cumbria and it would cost me a fortune to request copies of everything!
I also have the rental payments for the mills. Simon was paying £8 a year for Crosby Mill, then £11 a year for Meaburn Mill and then back to £8 a year on Crosby again. I don't have any information on him after 1754 when he escaped from custody (on 30 March).
His eldest son John was involved in an altercation at CR just after this. I think another of his sons (Simon) ends up working as a miller in Newby, Morland. He also had a son called Anthony. I have found 2 references to Anthony Jacksons working as millers but I haven't confirmed they are one and the same. His daughter Sarah may marry in CR in 1777 but she also seems to move away
Let me know if there is something particular that you want to know. I assume that you are more interested in the Dents than the Jacksons however.
There are two Elinor Dents: the daughter of Anthony christened on 9 Mar 1708; the daughter of William of Trainlands christened on 24 Oct 1716. I think Anthony and William are brothers. I came to the conclusion that Anthony's daughter married Simon Jackson and William's daughter married George Whitehead. It sounds as if you know this to be a fact. I would appreciate any information you have.
You mention the will of Isabel Salkeld (nee Dent). I asssume you have seen the Dent wills but have you also seen the will of Agnes Burra? She was the mother of Elinor Burra who married Robert Dent of Trainlands. Her daughter Elinor married Robert Dent. Agnes leaves quite a few bequests. In particular she leaves money to her grandchild Anthony Dent and in the next sentence leaves money to Elinor and Margaret the children of Anthony Dent.
Agnes was a Salkeld as well. She lived to the age of 88 and seems to have been living with her daughter Elinor at Trainlands when she died.
My husband is descended from one branch of CR Salkelds. I started off researching his family history but then I got hooked on CR generally. I have been doing a one place study of CR (upto the 1800s only) over the last 2-3 years. When my children are a bit older, I hope to spend a few days in CR to get the feel of it.
So I would love any information that you have on your family or CR that I can't glean from the normal family history sources. I have lots of wills, some estate records, land tax records, records of marriage licence.
In particular, what do you know about Elizabeth Winter (and her family) who married Robert Dent in 1616?
regards
Deborah
-
Deborah, very interesting and apologies for not responding as quickly as you did: work + 3 and 1 year olds intervened...
I am more interested in Dents than Jacksons but I have a long-term project of having a family tree of all descendants in all lines of my earliest Dent ancestor so would want to trace the Jackson line as well ideally. So your info is great to have.
I can tell you as much as you like about Crosby and Maulds Meaburn - difficult to know where to start. As my family lived in Meaburn from 1616 then numerous houses/farms in both villages have some kind of family connection.
Eleanor Whitehead being the daughter of William Dent comes from a 19th century family tree of ours, which I am pretty sure is right - not least because the social hierarchies were very rigid there and then and the William Dents and the Whiteheads were both prosperous yeoman families on the way up and Anthony Dent's family was not thanks to Anthony's fecklessness or worse.
Yes, I have seen Agnes Salkeld/Burra of Trainlands' will. V impressed with the level of detail you have on all this.
Which of the branches of Crosby Salkelds is your one? I was given about 10 years ago by a gentleman called Robert Salkeld (who had carried out a one-name study of Salkelds) some very good family trees: do you have these? My copies are currently deposited in the Crosby parish archives which was set up a couple of years ago. One branch lived at a cottage now called Fern Cottage in Crosby, which now belongs to myself and my brother and sister. Another branch lived a few doors up in a house now owned by Mr and Mrs Risk, who are leading lights in the Local History Society and have researched the history of their house.
On Robert Dent/Elizabeth Winter, what is your particular interest? Elizabeth was the daughter of Anthony Winter of Trainlands, ie the Dents first acquired Trainlands by marriage. Back then it was only 20 acres or so though and is now about 300 so there has been steady accretion over the years. We have a couple of early deeds (deposited in Kendal archives; my notes of which are in Crosby parish archive...!) mentioning him and I have his will I think. There were lots of Winters in Meaburn in the 17th c., probably related to each other but not in any way now traceable (I have tried). Elizabeth's death is not recorded in the parish registers - they are a bit patchy because the vicar was first thrown out during teh Commonwealth and then decrepit.
Here is something I wrote a while back as the first section of a family history (still in progress...): "The first definite ancestor of our family is Robert Dent, who was married at Crosby Ravensworth Church on 8th December 1616 to Elizabeth Winter. In the following year their first child was born, and her baptism in Crosby parish register gives her as daughter of Robert Dent of Trainlands. This is the first mention of Trainlands in the parish registers, but Robert's father-in-law Anthony Winter is called "of Maulds Meaburn late of Trainlands" in his will of 1627, and simply of Trainlands in the inventory. It seems likely that he was previously owner of Trainlands and transferred it to his daughter and son-in-law at some stage. (The significance of this gift was marked by Robert and Elizabeth calling their eldest son Anthony in 1624, departing from the normal tradition of naming the eldest son after the paternal grandfather.) In 1626 a list of landowners in the manorial records shows Anthony Winter as one of the few freeholders in Meaburn, and no Dent is listed for either freehold or customary land. The central core of Trainlands was freehold. Certainly he sold some other land near Trainlands to Robert in 16[ ], at which time he had already moved to Meaburn. In his will he leaves nothing to Elizabeth, although Robert is his executor, which suggests that he had already made provision for her. That provision remains in the family, just short of 400 years later."
Gillian, on your question about Ellwoods, yes the first tenants of Trainlands after the orphaned Dent children went to live with their uncle in London c 1803 were Ellwoods. The parish registers to 1812 show 3 mentions of Ellwoods of Trainlands and I have a feeling that they were there until 1820s.
Will try to respond more quickly next time.
-
Hi Nick,
What an interesting reply! I love anything to do with the history of Crosby Ravensworth. You probably know Teddy Relph of CR who has a wealth of CR local history knowledge.
As far as I know, Ellwoods lived at Trainlands from at least 1803 until 1826. There were two families:
1) John senior & wife Mary and then 2nd wife Sarah Armstrong + son John junior & wife Mary Ruddock (1803 - 1812).
2) Mark Ellwood & wife Isabel Bird (1815 - 1826).
I do not know if the two families are connected. I don't know where John Ellwood senior/junior or Mark Ellwood were born. A lot of WES Ellwoods originated from Dufton. Maybe these ones did too. Does anyone have any information?
Regards,
Gillian
-
Gillian, Yes I know Ted very well, spoke to him this week in fact. Thanks for your information about the Ellwoods.
Kind regards
Nick
-
Hi Nick,
My mum says another branch of our family, the Johnsons, from Crosby Ravensworth rented Tenter Row from the Dent family. Tenter Row was eventually bought by the Johnsons. It has now been sold on.
Gillian
-
Tommy Johnson (whom my father remembers well) and his father (Richard?) as you say rented Tenter Row from us and my grandfather sold it in 1959. Tommy and his father were I think blacksmiths and smallholders. It's a nice house from the outside (I've never been in) and was up for sale for a fairly chunky amount, fortunately I forget the tiny amount my grandfather sold it for....
Moderator Comment: Modified to remove details of living person.
-
Hi Nick,
My great uncle Tom lived at Tenter Row along with his family and my great grandma Margaret Johnson nee Ellwood. Margaret's husband Richard Johnson was a blacksmith at the smithy which was the postoffice when I was a child and is now the CR archive. There were two more Johnson generations of blacksmiths at CR, Richard's father Thomas (who also was landlord of the Butcher's Arms) and his father Richard who I believe came from Hilton outside Appleby.
Uncle Tom's sister was my gran Mary Ellwood nee Johnson. She lived at Lyvennet. My grandparents had the house built.
Regards,
Gillian
Moderator Comment: Modified (a bit late!) to remove details of living person
-
Hi all
Have been reading this thread with great interest - I'm also trying to sort out a bunch of Meaburn DENTs (sorry - no JACKSONs). I was interested to read about Meaburn Hill Mill. Deborah - in your research, did you happen across a Robert DENT who at his death in 1710 was listed as living at Meaburn Hill Mill? His wife's name was Isabell.
Robert was baptised 1678 in Lowther, son of Richard DENT. His brother was Myles DENT, baptised 1681 in Lowther. I don't know their mother's name.
I think Richard was baptised 1639 in Kings Meaburn, son of Richard DENT and Elisabeth WILSON. His siblings included Elizabeth (1636), John (1639-1640), Jane (1641-1647), Rowland (1643), Thomas (1646-1647), Ann (1646-1648), Margret (1651-1652) and Robert (1651-1651), all baptised at Morland.
I'd love to hear if anyone has any info on this DENT branch.
Cheers, Leah
-
Flass,
I am wondering if you know anything of the name Agen or Agin in the Dent family. My great-great grandfather was Thomas Agen Dent, and it seems to have been a family name.
-
This thread gets better ..... I know I should start another thread but I can't resist butting to ask if anyone has any information on Christian Woof (1775) who married Jonathan Rigg in 1797 ... their daughter Ann Rigg married my William Ellwood in 1820 in CR.
A few years ago I did look round the church graveyard in CR and there's quite a few 'Riggs' and 'Wooffs' (strange name) but none that I was looking for at the time.
My William Ellwood was christened at Whitber, CR, ...was this an area or a building?
Jean
-
Hi Jean,
Whitber is a farm in Maulds Meaburn.
Regards,
Gillian
-
Thanks Gillian, so kind ....... you've helped me so much in the past with my Ellwoods. Do you know if the farm is still there?
When you don't know an area, it's so confusing ....... When William Ellwood was baptised it was at Whitber, Crosby Ravensworth when he married he came from Morland ...... when his son was baptised he came from Low Whitber, Crosby Ravensworth...... would MM come under CR in the parish register.
Jean
-
Hi Jean,
Yes MM is in the parish of CR so all people living MM would be baptised, married & buried at Lawrence's church in CR.
Whitber was there in 1901 according to the census. Whitber is located next to Roans & near Crabstack & Lankaber.
Regards,
Gillian
PS Am always interested when Ellwoods are involved!!
-
Hi Jean,
According to a friend of CR, Whitber farm is still there. If you look at the map it is between Littlebeck and the Lyvennet. It is known also as High Whitber because there was another Whitber to the North of Kings Meaburn, but it is just a barn now. Present farmer at High Whitber is Moderator Comment: Modified to remove details of living person. Please send such information by personal message.
Regards,
Gillian
-
Thanks so much Gillian ...... I have been looking at High Whitber on my Ordinance Survey Map and wondering if that could be the place ...... you've now confirmed that.
Thanks again for taking the time
Jean
-
Hello. My apologies for joining this thread, since I have nothing to add on the Jacksons in Bampton. However, I would like very much to contact Nick Dent (user name Flass) about some of the Dent families that he mentioned earlier. I also have some Dent ancestors in Morland in the early 1700s, and hope that we might be able to link our families together. I would be happy to correspond by regular email, since this is my first post ever in RootsChat, but I think I can make this work too, if you prefer that :-)
Regards to all, and happy researching!
Tom
-
Hello again,
I see that (except for me) nobody has replied to this thread for over a year. Is there anyone still watching here, who might be able to connect me with Nick Dent (user name Flass). As I noted earlier, I hope he and I might be able to connect our ancestral families together. Thanks very much.
Tom
-
Hi Tom,
Try sending Nick a personnel message.
Gillian
-
Hi Gillian,
Thanks for the suggestion; I would like to send him a personal message. However, the RootsChat rules say I can't do that until I have posted public messages 3 times.
Fortunately, this reply to you is now my third posting. :-) So I'll attempt to send Nick a personal message right after this. If that doesn't work for some reason, would you mind if I post here again and ask you to send him a message for me, since he doesn't seem to be watching here any more?
Thanks for your help.
Tom
-
Hi Tom,
If he doesn't reply, maybe he has changed his email address & has not updated his Rootschat account.
G
-
Just come across this thread, whilst looking for something totally different (as one does!).
Somewhat irrelevant in a way, but my ancestors had Maulds Meaburn Mill from 1780s for almost a century - namely John and Mary (CLARK) ROBINSON, then one of their sons Robert Robinson.
I'm also trying to find the location of Crosby Ravensworth mill - any information?
Andy
(Stuck here in France, so 'on the ground' research is difficult!)
-
Well this has been a long going thread, I thought I would try my luck and see if anyone can help.
Firstly this is really a question about the Crosby Ravensworth archives I did ask on another thread how you can find out when it is open.
I am related to the Rigg/Ellwood families. I wondered if Gigi could let me know if we are connected. My 2x gt gd father is John Ellwood b 1826. He marries Elizabeth Hastwell (connection here possibly to the Faraday family) but there is also a connection between the Hastwells and Dents in Kirkby Stephen area don't know if there is some link with these Dents.
Hope someone can help
regards
Helene
-
Hi Helene,
Do you have any more info about your John Ellwood, place of birth, parents.....
Regards,
Gillian
-
His father was William Ellwood b1795 Crosby Ravensworth and Ann Rigg b1801.
John b1826 was a lead miner in 1861 and 1871, then moved to Butterknowle in 1881 and finally he was a farmer living in Priory Building Cockerton, he lived with his sister in law Isabella Hastwell as his wife Elizabeth had died in 1868. Is this enough info
-
Helene
Crosby Ravensworth archives I turned up at the door towards the end last year we had been for a weekend over the lakes and popped into CR on our way home. A notice on the archive door has three or four numbers you can ring for group members a gentleman came and opened up for me to look round I think the group only meet once a week. It is worth a visit if you get the chance pretty impressive village archive. One word of warning it is hard to get in a mobile phone signal in CR I had to walk back up the hill to get reception.
Graham
-
By coincidence I was yesterday re-organizing my notes (or rather, trying to!) and came across the following which may or may not be of relevance:
From the National Archives site - 21 March 1792 Inquest on Richard Ellwood of Park [a small collection of farms and houses to the NE of Orton]
From Kendal Records Office, ref WQ/SA/521/5: 13 August 1793 Recognizance: Thos. Elwood late of Orton Shoemaker, Thos. Farmer of Gaisgill, Orton husbandman, John Chamberlain of Orton shoemaker and Thos. Bland of Ormside miller for appearance of Thos. Ellwood alleged father of bastard child of Margaret Atkinson of Orton singlewoman
Andy
-
Hi Helene,
From my Ellwood notes I have:
William Ellwood bap 15/6/1769 of Whitber Crosby Ravensworth married Elizabeth Mattison 6/5/1792 CR. At the time of their marriage, William was living in Morland. They had a son William bap 15/3/1795 CR of Low Whitber (your William). The father William died before the son William b1795 was baptised.
William b1795 CR was the 5th child of Joshua Ellwood & Mary Lunson. The other children were: Isabel b1760 Kirkland, Mary b1762 Kirkland, Anne b1765 Kirkland & Margaret b 1767 CR of Whitber. Joshua & Mary were married 14/5/1758 Newton Reigny CUM. Mary died 1785 CR & Joshua 1791 CR both from Whitber.
In 1787 Joshua (Husbandman) is living in Maulds Meaburn (in the parish of CR) with one son & two daughters. Mary the daughter died in 1774 age 12yrs.
This is were the trail runs dry. I do not know where Joshua came from.
Regards,
Gillian
-
Further to my post above, I have now found reference to a William Ellwood of Thorpe in the Will of Matthew Robinson (my 3x gt uncle). The Will is dated 1855, and William is referred to as 'my good friend William Ellwood', being named as one of the Executors. The age of Matthew and the date suggest that this could be the same William - Matthew was born in Maulds Meaburn and baptised at Crosby Ravensworth, so this could be the link.
Andy
-
Hi Graham,
Some very long time ago you sent me this reply relating to my Jackson's of Bampton. Can you remember where you found that they were of 'Stanegarth' as I am unable to find that anywhere.
Also have you a current link to your CR & MM Parish Register Baptisms.
Probably not on your IGI entry but John & Mary Jackson where "of Stanegarth" not sure if this would be a farm.
I have just added some Salkeld - CR & MM Parish Register Baptisms 1813 - 1884 nearly 70 entries to my rootschat website fruits of a good day out at Kendal Records Office last week
Thanks
Judy
-
Judy
"Stanegarth" came from the Bampton Parish Register I have a copy of this on CD.
My Rootschat website that went a long time ago this option is no longer available if you are looking for Salkeld information from Crosby Ravensworth & Maulds Meaburn send me a PM with who you are interested in I will try to help you out.
Graham
-
Thanks - will do.
Judy
-
Dear Flass,
I am a descendant of William Owen Kitchener Dent, who migrated to Australia from Warwickshire (Mancetter?) in 1839/1840. I don't have any firm information on his prior lineage, but was wondering if he was related to your family in Maulds Meaburn/Crosby Ravensworth? I am related to Bgor, with whom you have corresponded previously. My wife and I are travelling through the UK in September 2018 and have arranged to spend a few days in the Carlisle area, with a plan to visiting Maulds Meaburn. I understand from Bgor that there is an archive in the area that might be useful to us. How can I access this archive? I can be contacted by email at lindsay.dent@adelaide.edu.au.
Best wishes,
Lindsay Dent.
-
Hi Lindsay,
Unfortunately I have never heard of William Owen Kitchener Dent from Warwickshire. But do have Dents who emigrated from Westmorland in the 1850's
The Archive which would have been best for Research would have been at Kendal but that is being revamped so the other one which may have some information is in Carlisle.
https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/archivecentres/cac.asp
Have a great time in the UK and hope you will find something out about your Dents.
Judy
-
Dear Judy,
Thanks for your response. It may be of no relevance to you at all, but
JACKSON, James and wife (Mary) Ann (nee McLEASH?) , are listed as passengers on the ship JOHN, departed Gravesend on September 12th, 1839
with Captain Alexander Smith,
arrived Port Adelaide South Australia on February 5th, 1840.
My ancestor WOK Dent is on the same passenger list, but according to Bgor (see RootsChat), there appear to have been transcription errors from the original records and it is probable that WOK Dent arrived a few months later on the ORLEANA. Working on the basis that ships are floating villages and that the members of the village may have known each other prior to boarding, the Jackson-Dent connection may be relevant.
Regards,
Lindsay.