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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: imt on Tuesday 03 July 07 09:29 BST (UK)
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Dear Rootschatters
Is anyone out there researching the BATHE family from Wroughton/Elcombe? If so I would love to hear from them.
My grandmother was Martha Bathe b Wroughton 1870 d Westbury on Trym, Bristol in 1930. I believe her father to have been William b Elcombe 1834 and her mother Sarah BATHE (possibly a cousin or maybe the widow of A N Other Bathe) b Wroughton 1836.
As with many families at this time, christian names were repeated through the generations and the relatives all lived in close proximity, making it very difficult to untangle the various families.
I would be happy to share the information I have. Any help would be much appreciated.
imt
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Hi
Not sure if this will connect to your family , but I have a Caroline Bath who married Thomas Skuse in Compton Greenfield in 1841 giving her address as Henbury. Henbury is next to Westbury on Trym. Her father was named as William on the marriage cert.
This is much earlier than the details you gave and I dont have much more info on the Bath line so not sure if it is the same family.
Nashua
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Hello Nashua
Thanks for your reply. I haven't come across a Caroline Bath(e) in my searches as yet. It's possible there may be a link but as you say 1841 is early for any of my Bathes to have moved to the Bristol area. My researches so far show my grandmother to be the first of the line to have moved away from Wiltshire into Bristol. But who knows, I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong!
Do you have a dob for Caroline from the marriage cert and I'll see if I can find her in Wilts as I have fiches for some bmds there? Meanwhile I'll keep your info in the "pending" file.
Thanks again.
imt
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Hi IMT
My Caroline was married 03 October 1841 aged 19. although the age varies a couple of years each way in subsequent census records. The only other clue is the witnesses to the wedding were Mary Bath & Jane Dinnen?
She was a servant on the marriage cert. Her husband Thomas was born Charlton Wilts, but her birth place on the census is shown as various places in Glos.
Not sure if this will help?
Nashua
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Hi Nashua
Every little clue helps. The Wilts connection is interesting. If I'm confined indoors by the weather tomorrow, I shall be on the case.
Thanks again.
imt
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Hi IMT,
Thanks for the offer to check. If you need anything checked at Bristol Record Office let me know. I am hoping to go there on Thursday.
Nashua
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Hi Nashua
I've looked on the fiches I have but have found no trace of a baptism for a Caroline Bath or Bathe born abt 1822. I've tried unsuccessfully on FreeReg, IGI and Ancestry for you too.
Happy hunting at Bristol RO. I shall be visiting there in August so won't trouble you with searches for me.
Best wishes.
imt
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Hi IMT
Thanks for searching for me. I will keep your details on file in case the families eventually link.
Good luck
Nashua
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Hi IMT
I've just read your message about the Bathe family from Elcombe. I used to live there as a lad and went to school with a Patsy Bathe and the Bathe family from Elcombe featured in the history of our hamlet Basset Down which was about 3 miles west of Wroughton, just beyond Elcombe. I'll dig out some more info if you are still interested.
Regards
Tantan
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Tantan you are an absolute star! I'd be grateful for any help you may be able to give me. :)
Here are my main links to the Bathes:
My grandmother was Martha Bathe, b 24 Feb 1870 in Wroughton. My research leads me to believe that her parents were: William Bathe bapt 1834 in Elcombe and Sarah. The only Sarah I can trace marrying a William Bathe at about the appropriate time was Sarah Bathe in 1862 reg Highworth Dec qtr. I wonder if they were cousins? If my research is correct, Sarah Bathe was the daughter of Mary Bathe b abt 1811 an unmarried ag lab who also had a son Robert b abt 1828. These three were living in Wroughton in the 1841 census. In the 1851 I believe the same Sarah was a pauper in the Highworth and Swindon Workhouse. In the 1861 census she was a servant in High Street Swindon which would tie in with her marrying in the Highworth reg district.
I believe William Bathe's father to have been Joseph Bathe bpt 1799 in Wroughton and his mother to have been Mary Buckland b abt 1806.
I am unfamiliar with Wroughton/Elcombe and surrounds and have been confused by my ancestors who seemed to swap nearby parishes in the BMDs and censuses. The Bathes seem to have moved into the surrounding area but each generation kept naming their children after grandparents. It's been a nightmare to untangle and I have to admit I had decided to give them a rest. Perhaps a fresh eye will help unscramble the families. I am also inclined to believe there were two main branches of the Bathes; one wealthy and the other not. I'm descended from the latter!
I should be grateful for a contact address for your school friend if you have one so that I can write direct to her. I have absolutely no information about my grandmother and her family. She was dead before I was born and my father never talked of his parents. Unfortunately I only have one living cousin from this side of my family and she is unable to provide any information.
Thank you for taking the trouble to post a message for me. I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes.
imt
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Hi IMT
I should have said I lived NEAR there as a lad!!
From what you have said I guess that you have found Joseph & Mary Bathe on the census in 1841 and onwards. Their son William is aged 7 at that census. Two of their children Anne & Esther Bathe feature in a book about Basset Down where I grew up. The book is titled "Basset Down an old Country House, by Mary Arnold- Forster and it was published by Country Life in about 1950. I have a copy but have also seen copies in old bookshops. You would almost certainly find it interesting, although they only crop up at the back of the book on a couple of pages.
I can't put you in touch immediately with Patsy because she lives in Australia, but I hope to have contact details for you shortly. I don't know if there is a connection from her to the Elcombe family, but seeing that Elcombe is only about 2 miles away chances are good.
From what I can see there were Bathe families in many of the surrounding villages, including Broad Town. Will be in touch when I have more info.
Regards
Tantan
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imt
Why not get your grandmother Martha Bathes birth cert?
That would confirm who her parents are (your post sounds as if you are not 100% sure) and would also confirm her mum's maiden name (would make confirmmig the Sarah Bathe/William Bathe marriage easier)
Maybe I have missed something, but I would have thought this was mandatory before even trying to go back a generation!
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the details are:
JAn/Feb/Mar 1870 Martha Bathe Highwoth reg District ref 5a 23
There must have been at least 3 families producing children in the same reg district at the same time, as in 1870 there are also:
Jan/Feb/MAr Sarah Jane ref 5a 27
Jul/Aug/Sep Frederick William 5a 12
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I guess you have her, age 11, in 1881with her parents William and Sarah, and her siblings Robert 15 Thomas 15 Fred 13 Mary Ann 8 and George 5
If you just key in Bathe and Wroughton, or Highworth, on the 1881 you can piece together other families in the area.
I guess they all link up a generation or two (or three... or four....) back!
I think your trip to the records ofice will be great fun!
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Thanks Tantan. I am delighted that I may soon be able to write to a ? distant relation. The book sounds interesting too. I've been in touch with Wroughton Local History Group and purchased one of their books which mentions various Bathe family members. It gives me a good insight into the lives of my predecessors (some of whom incidentally lived in an area called Sodom!) and perhaps the reason my grandmother left to seek work in Bristol.
Thanks also, Lizdb. Point taken - I agree that I must send off for a certificate to confirm my findings re my grandmother's parents. Unfortunately visiting the Wilts RO is not possible and I have to do most of my research on the net. I have access to Ancestry and have printed off all the Bathes mentioned in the 1841-1901 censuses inc who were born/living in Wiltshire. I have linked up as many as I can into family groups and I'm hoping to progress from there.
I appreciate the assistance give by both of you.
Best wishes.
imt
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.....sorry, I thought you mentioned you were going to visit a records office! But, looking back that was Bristol you mentioned. I (wrongly?) assumed that was where the parish records for that neck of the woods were.
The Bathe/Bathe marriage cert would also be useful. If Martha's birth cert gives her mum's maiden name as other than Bathe, then it could be that Sarah was married twice, firstly to an 'X' Bathe and then to William who more likely than not was related to first hubby.
If that were the case, of course, children if any of her first marriage (step children to William ) would also be Bathes.
Just surmising at this point - but I would definitely recommend getting some certs to establish the facts before going back a generation.
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Hello again
Thanks again for your suggestions. I'll be on the case shortly.
imt
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Hi IMT
I'm afraid that there is no interest from my Bathe schoolfriend in Australia, but she does have a brother here who I may get to here from - she has passed my address to him. I will get back to you if I get anything more.
Best Wishes
Tantan
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Thank you for your trouble, Tantan. I fully understand that not everyone is as interested in family history as Rootschatters!
I've just received my Bathe ggrandparents' marriage certificate which proves my findings so far and takes me back a generation. I'm about to go away on a fortnight's holiday but on return I shall review the Wroughton BMD fiches and see if I can progress from there.
Thanks again.
imt
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OK IMT I would be interested to hear what you find.
Tantan
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I have a Bath family in my tree but they seem to originate in Box
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Hello Pips
I suspect that this is a branch of the Bathe family but I have not linked the Baths with the Bathes as yet. There were huge numbers of the Bath/Bathes in Wiltshire going back to the 1600s and even further back.
imt
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Hi, it looks in 1851 as if William Bathe was living in Swindon with his sister Martha and her husband
HO107/1833/f422/033, Swindon, High Street
John Leighfield, h, m, 29, coachman, WIL Lydiard
Martha Leighfield, w, m, 24, WIL Elcombe
Robert Lieghfield, s, 5, WIL Elcombe
George Leighfield, s, 3, WIL Wroughton
Mark Leighfield, s, 10m, WIL Wroughton
William Bathe, BL, u, 17, ag lab, WIL Elcombe
I take it you have Joseph Bathe in 1851 in Elcombe. Also in Elcombe in 1851 is James Bathe age 58.
Elcombe is a hamlet about 2 miles west of Wroughton which is about 2.5 miles south of Swindon.
Happy New Year, Dave
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Thank you Davierj for your message and apologies for the delay in responding. I have been away over Christmas and New Year with my son and his family.
I had found William Bathe on the 1851 census and have followed him right through to, and including, the 1901 census. Once I get all the laundry and household chores done I'm back on to ancestor chasing.
Happy New Year.
imt
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Hi IMT
I am still interested in your Bathe family also, because of their connection with Basset Down (see above). John Leighfield and his family identified by Dave on 30th Dec was married to Martha Bathe in Sep Q 1845 and he was the Coachman for the Story Maskelyne family who lived at Basset Down house for many years. He is referred to a few times in the book about Basset Down by Mary Arnold-Forster (a descendant of the Story Maskelynes). Martha Leighfield died aged 41 in Jun Q 1867 and John Leighfield married again. Hope this is of some interest.
Regards
Tantan
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Happy New Year imt.
Dave
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Hi imt.
If you are like myself you will be recording anything to do with your own family name [ BATHE in your case ] on the assumption that one day , what is currently uninteresting, may help to prove a family link. If you are then here is a bit more.
COLESHILL, Berks. ( walking distance from Wroughton)
Marriage. 8 June 1811, William Titchener & Hannah Bathe. botp.
Regards, Toby.
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Thanks, Toby. You are right I have been saving any stray Bathe info that I come across. I can live in hope that someday I shall find missing pieces in the jigsaw which will link these "odd bods" together. Unfortunately my husband has just come out of hospital so I'm not currently able to spend time on research.
Thanks again.
imt
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Hi "imt"
Your last post on this thread said your husband was just out of hospital - I hope he is now fully recovered
But back to your first post - researching the Bathe family of the Wroughton/Elcombe area ... well, I'm a Bathe whose GGGrandfather came from Wroughton in 1840 to become a Metropolitan policeman. He married and had his family in south east London. However two of his sons returned to Wroughton/Swindon area to work as engineers (probably with GWR).
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find out too much about the Wiltshire side of the family before the move to London. My GGGrandfather was William Bathe born about 1817 in Wroughton, and his father was also William who was a gardener according to his son's wedding certificate. Who his mother was is not clear but IGI suggests her name was Patience.
Do let me know if you are still researching this family and perhaps we can exchange some more info
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Thank you Siegebatteries
Sorry for the delay in replying. My husband is indeed well again but unfortunately I've been confined to bed for the last 3 and a half weeks with a virus which turned into pneumonia and pleurisy. As you can imagine, I'm not up to much at the moment but will be in touch. From memory we may be distantly related but I need to look closely at my tree and other info before giving you any info.
Happy Christmas.
imt
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Hello again siegebatteries.
I'm now fully recovered from the lurgy and back to spending some time on family research. I should not have relied on my memory, however! We probably are very vaguely related but I can't find a link as yet. I'm not sure where you are based but my husband and I did visit Wroughton last year - during a period when we were both in good health. Have to say that I was disappointed as the original village has been swamped by commuterland housing estates. I did manage to find the area in which my ancestors lived in both Wroughton and Elcombe (a hamlet closeby). I saw a number of Bathe gravestones in the churchyard but none that I could link up to my direct family. You may have gathered there were the "haves" and "have nots" in the Bathe family and of course mine were in the latter category.
I have come across a Patience and William Bathe in my searches but can't link them with my direct line. Not sure how much research you have done on your branch, but mine all used and reused the same christian names down each twig of the family which makes it almost impossible to be certain who belonged to whom.
Happy to give you any help I can if you would like to send me a pm. I've got the Wroughton parish registers on fiche but it's still difficult linking the families together.
imt
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Happy New Year!
Glad to hear you're both back to health.
We now live in SW France, so access to physical records is a bit difficult. Also we too are on the "have nots" side of the Bathe family so regular return visits are out of the question - and when we do get back to the UK it is to see descendants in Sussex and Yorkshire, not West Country ancestors!
I had a Bathe great uncle who was convinced there was "money in the family" and he wanted to find out where it was, so started doing some family history back in the 1930s. He stopped suddenly because he found a skeleton in the family cupboard - a murder, was the legend - but I have found no evidence to back that one up. However I also found that his grandmother, who did come from a relatively wealthy family (to whom my great uncle paid tribute by giving one of his sons that family name as a second Christian name) had had a daughter three years before she was married - father unknown! That, I suspect, was a much more compelling reason to stop his researches!!!
My Bathe Wiltshire connection is definitely through GGGrandfather William (b Wroughton c1817 - 5 censuses agree on that), son of William, a gardener - that's from GGGrandfather's marriage certificate.
It was my brother-in-law who came up with Patience Chivers as his mother - via IGI, so I'm not that certain about her. Now someone on Ancestry has put his mother as Martha Patience Hawkins - but there are no sources given, so, again, I'm not sure.
If either of these names appear even on the outermost twigs of your tree, it would be very interesting.
Best wishes
Peter
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Hello Peter
Happy New Year to you and yours.
I'm slightly envious of your location! Hope you are enjoying some much warmer weather than us at present. Although I now live in Cornwall and today is cloudless, sunny, and breezy it's only about 3 degrees C but we are better off than the rest of the country I think.
I will look at my fiches for Wroughton to see if I can find the marriage of William Bathe to a Patience and let you know the result. My fiche reader is stored in the garage as it's seldom used so I'll need to get my husband to retrieve it!
Best wishes.
imt
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As I understand it, that's what husbands are for.
Happy new year all,
Toby.
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Hello again Peter
After defrosting the fiche reader here are the results of my searches:
I found a baptism for a William Bathe on 10 Aug 1817 in the Wroughton parish transcripts. He was noted as the son of William and Patience Bathe. Father William was noted as a labourer.
There were also 2 possible baptisms for a William Senior:
(A) 1768 29 April, son of Anthony and Elizabeth. This particular Willliam was buried on 11 June 1799 at Wroughton Church. If this is your man then he was from the moneyed side of the Bathes who lived in Purton and even have memorial stained glass windows in Purton church. Some of this branch moved to Wroughton at a later date.
or
(B) 1783 1st June, son of John and Mary. This William was buried on 4 Feb 1831 at Wroughton Church.
If you choose Option B, then it is likely that we are very distantly related. I have found a marriage for a John Bathe and Mary Green 10 Oct 1778, witnesses Samuel Austin and Mary Rogers (via the Bath/Bathe one name studies records). They were both noted as of the parish of Wroughton. They went on to have 10 children, the ninth of whom was my 2 x g grandfather. Your William bapt 1782 was their second child.
According to the Nimrod Marriage Index (Wilts) William Bathe married Patience on 3 November 1808 (witnesses Robert Bathe and John Austin). Unfortunately I don't have Patience's surname but you could write to the One Name Study for help (17 Escourt Road, Gloucester GL1 3LU, UK). Unfortunately my fiches only have baptisms and burials. Wiltshire FHS don't seem to have transcribed marriages as yet.
Hope all this is of some help. I'd be pleased to have info regarding William and Patience's branch of the family.
imt
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imt
That's marvellous!
Obviously William senior is not from the moneyed side as, although I've heard of fathers with posthumous children, 18 years is a bit much !
But the one who died in 1831 could well be my GGGGrandfather and thus we are very distantly related.
I shall certainly try the One Name Study Group for more.
Your help is much appreciated. Being so far from all sources, I have almost given up going back up the tree and have been putting leaves on all the twigs lower down, such as sort out various great uncles' WW1 service records.
We seem to have had all your cold weather come down here now - snow and temperatures of -5C - but at last the thaw has come
If you need anything from our branch, please let me know
Peter
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I m sure you would already have looked at the National Archives site and found entries of Bathe families from Purton and "Elcombe in Wroughton" and others also.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search/search_results.aspx?st=q&querytext=bathe
Thought I'd mention it, just in case..........
Judith, Canberra, Australia
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Judith
Thanks for posting this site. I had not searched the National Archives although I have spent a day researching at the local Record Office. I've had a look at all the NA references and saved the relevant ones. I have come across most of the Bathe names mentioned but unfortunately they don't link into my tree at the moment. Maybe in years to come I'll find the link between the monied branch and my ag labs so I'll keep the information for reference.
Thanks again.
imt
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Yes - I looked too and they are all from the rich side of the family!
Peter
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Hello,
You certainly started something with your enquiry - My wife is Margaret Bathe, b 1939 in Woolwich. I have her Family Tree which goes back to Norman times having passed through London to Wiltshire Wroughton and before that to Purton, then back to County Meath in Ireland and also Drogheda before they left Normandy. The evidence prior to 1500 is slender but the Wiltshire to London evidence is secure.
I have a tree with 14000 names in - only 500 Bathes which I will exchange for your tree if only someone will tell me how to post it to you. Best wishes,
Trevor Hopkins
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Hello again,
William, 1834 is brother to Sarah 1837 but also her husband - perhaps not.
Martha was born 24 Feb 1870 - 2nd cousin 4x removed d. Westbury on Trym, Bristol.
William born 20 4 1834, Elcombe d c1895 1st cousin 4x removed as is Sarah.
best wishes, Trevor Hopkins
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Thanks for getting in touch again, Trevor. I have to admit that I have not done any family history research for months. I believe that Sarah Bathe b 1836 Wroughton and William Bathe b 1834 Elcombe are possibly cousins. Once Christmas is over and if the weather confines me to barracks, then I may get back to my ancestor hunting. I'm waiting for my son and his family to arrive at midnight tonight so shall be rather busy over the holiday period! Best wishes for a Happy Christmas :) Iris
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Hi Trevor and welcome to Rootschat.
As you have made three posts you should be able to use the PM system. Click on the name of the person you wish to contact and you should be able to find the links from there. :)
Judith
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HELLO BATHE FAMILY.
I can give you two family trees which if you look up on Ancestry and Family Tree records you will find many of the Bathe family. Peter Bathe and Trevor Hopkins 2010 have both independently created trees of the Bathe family in Wiltshire. Trevor Hopkins is married to Peter Bathe's sister. The family seem to have left Normandy in the early 11th Century for Ireland and then after living in castles in the East Coast left for Wiltshire about 1550. Our part of the Bathe family lived in Wroughton and Elcombe and then left for Purton. In modern times our ancestor left for Woolwich area but there are plenty of Bathes left. The family were originally de Bathe but lost the de about 500 years ago.
Trevor Hopkins -
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I know this thread was started 10 years ago and so the confusion may have been resolved already but if anyone is still interested, I think I've cracked it.
Sarah was William's first cousin once removed. Her father, John Bathe, was the son of Robert Bathe, brother of Joseph Bathe, William's father.
I have done quite a bit of work on this family and would be happy to share
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Our part of the Bathe family lived in Wroughton and Elcombe and then left for Purton. In modern times our ancestor left for Woolwich area but there are plenty of Bathes left. The family were originally de Bathe but lost the de about 500 years ago.
My grandmother's second cousin put the "de" back! He was registered as Harold James Bathe Goodyer (his mother was Susannah Bathe of Wroughton), but he became Harold James de Bathe Goodyer when he emigrated to USA. Probably thought it sounded more distinguished.
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Thank you for offering to share the work you have done on the Bathe family. It is a long time since I looked at my family research due to my husband's ill health and family commitments. However, your message has motivated me to renew my interest. Once I get some spare time I will be in touch. Thanks again.
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Hi all, I found this thread after googling “Bathe family tree”. My Bathe link is through my maternal grandmother- she was Olive Patricia Bathe who was born on March 17th 1922 in Warwickshire. She married my grandfather John Howard Crammond in 1945 in Duns. Her parents were John William George Bathe & Elsie Lowe.
I’ve only had a very quick look through this thread so I’m looking forward to examining it properly!
Thanks,
Kevin