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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: daval57 on Saturday 07 July 07 01:33 BST (UK)
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Location?
I think it is Slamannan but does anybody recognise the building?
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I was born in Avonbridge, which is just down the road from Slamannan,
I can't think of any building of that stature in the area.
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Thank you.
Since I posted this, I found out that as well as a Slamannan connection, the family had connections in Linlithgow.
I think the photo may well have been taken in, or near, the grounds of Linlithgow Palace.
I've put up a separate post to try and check that out.... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,242904.msg1324554.html#msg1324554
Thanks for taking the time to reply to the post. Can you recommend any sites that would give me some more background to Slamannan - I've Googled it and looked at most of the sites but perhaps with your local knowledge you know of some better sites?
Dave
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Hi Dave
Have to say it looks very like Linlithgow Palace to me. Have a postcard with a similar view on - not with your guys in of course!
Cheers
Ann
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Ha Ha Ann. Bet you airbrushed my family out.
Any chance you could scan your postcard and post it.
When does it date from?
What do you know about the disappearing steeple?
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Hi Dave
lol no airbsuhing was a pc from MIL last year (she was on a Scottish coach thing) and I'm gonna have to raid blue bin now to fetch it out. Should be near top cos only put it in other day which is why view was fresh in mind.
No idea when pic was taken but she sent it last autumn.
So bear with me! The neighbours will now know I've truly lost it!
Ann
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Hi Dave
She went there cos was Mary Queen of Scots birthplace and as has a Scottish DIL - me - after 20+ years of having me around decided we Scots are Ok and safe to go! (Don;t know what she thought would happen - she did watch Braveheart tho.....)
The steeple has been gone quite a while I think. I remember reading something about it ages ago but can;t for life of me remember what or when
Ann
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Ann,
The "Scottish coach thing" is commonly known as a coach trip.
Braveheart - worth watching, not for the realism - that does not exist in the film!
I say worth watching for the charge scene. Watch it closely............ Willie, I mean MEL, starts running with a massive sword, cut to the baddies....cut back, Mel has an Axe.....cut............Mel has nothing in his hand (reckon he's just going to kick s**t out of the English........cut..........Oh, there it is again, he's found his sword.
Honest Ann, if you haven't seen it, rent it just to watch that scene.
Back to the point.
Can anyone tell me whether this is definitely Linlithgow Palace or not and, if it is, where did the steeple go. Beet it was Mel that took it back to Australia.
D
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I don't think it is Linlithgow Palace either, I am around all this area regularly and so far nothing jumps to mind.
Are there any notes on the back of the photo such as the Photographers name which might help us?
I am assuming the name of this family is Forrest, here is a link to a good website by Tom Paterson which covers all of Stirlingshire, there is a ton of info including Census records. The layout is a bit quirky, but if you have patience there is a lot to see including photographs. Tom has not had time to add all the photos at his disposal, but invites email enquiries so drop him a line.
This is the link to the 1881 Slamannan Census for the Forrest Family, if you click on the "S" on the righthand side of the page it opens the full Census record for that address. You will see the Birth places include :-
Whitburn, Linlithgow, Slamannan, Portobello, Westburn, Cumbernauld.
http://www.tompaterson.co.uk/census/Slamannan/Slam1881_sPage187.html
Here is the link to his Contents Page.
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/tom.paterson/content1.htm
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Dave,
Can you give us some information and dates for the people in the photo.
I have Googled various websites for Linlithgow Palace but can find no mention of a demolished spire such as is shown in your photo.
And have Googled many images of Linlithgow Palace (including paintings from earlier times) but nothing which suggests such a view.
I was going to suggest that posting on the Stirlingshire board (or, indeed, only on any Scottish board) might be unnecessarily limiting
your options and your access to RootsChatters' knowledge. And was going to suggest that the Photograph Restoration board
has some great people who are absolute terriers when it comes to identifying not just dates but also locations.
However, I've now looked over there and see that you've posted it there too ...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,242904.0.html
JAP
(Edited solely to change length of lines so scrolling isn't necessary)
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I' thought I'd better join in and explain that the photo is mine which I passed on to Daval57.
In response to Mosstrooper and Jap, yes it is the Forrest family, and thank you Mosstrooper for the link to the Slamannan census site showing details of my Great grandfather and his family from Whitburn.
I have wondered about the location, but I'm sorry to say there is nothing on the back of the original photo. There are however a few things I can tell you. The person standing on the right of the photo is my paternal Grandpa, William Meek Forrest and I guess that the others are 4 of his brothers, though I am not sure about that and don't know their names.
As to the date, for various reasons I am estimating that William is in his late 20s at the time (dob 1872)., so it's probably around the turn of the century.By 1904 he had moved to Wrexham, Denbighshire, married a local girl and had his first child. Of course the four other chaps could have travelled to Wrexham and this could be a family reunion, but I don't think so.
I say this because I do have another photo, attached, which was taken at the same location, but nearer to the tower and from a slightly different angle. Also it is of a different family group. In the original photo, it is of the chap sitting, right, with his family. He does look a bit younger to me. For this reason, I believe location is Scotland, but where, I don't know. Glasgow, perhaps? I know the family visited there around this time and my Grandpa did move back there after Wrexham.
I am making educated guesses here and am still in the early stages of finding out about my father's family, so any further observations welcome.
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AS site with lots of scottish castles. http://www.castles.org/Chatelaine/list.htm
another site with pics http://www.rampantscotland.com/castles/blcastles_index.htm
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Hi,
did you see the message mosstrooper sent?
"I have a photo of the tower shown in the other Slamannan thread, but for some reason I can't login to post on that thread.
Any idea why? "
You better get in touch ;D
Greenvalley
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Hi mosstrooper,
Brilliant work!!
Many thanks, mosstrooper, for your message saying that the place is Airth Castle in Stirlingshire
but that you are having difficulties posting your photo of it.
I've Googled for images of Airth Castle and the following is probably the best (not too good, eh!)
I could find to show the castellated square tower (think that's what I mean!) with spire adjacent:
http://www.airthreycastle.co.uk/airth3.gif
Hope you manage to post your photo soon!
JAP
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Airth Castle and Airthrey Castle are different places! ;D
Airthrey Castle: http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/features/featurefirst5252.html
Airth Castle:
http://www.amostcuriousmurder.com/Airth.htm
There are numerous other links to Airth Castle which is now a Hotel.
The village of Airth (and the Hotel) is only five minutes along the road from the Dunmore Estate (the home of the famous 'Pineapple'
http://www.rampantscotland.com/visit/blvisitdunmore.htm
The Aithrey Estate sits beside Logie Kirk:
http://www.stirling-tourism.co.uk/eastwards.htm
All very confusing . . . . . I know!
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Incidentally, have you seen the pictures posted by mosstrooper? They are at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,243177
Are there two similar looking castellated towers with turrets - Airthrey Castle and the Dunmore (Elphinstone) Tower near Airth Castle?
So which is the one in the photo which started this thread (and the thread on the Photo Restoration board)?
A totally confused,
JAP
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JAP,
The two photos I posted are of the same place Dunmore Tower, I know nothing about Airthrey Castle, and have never mentioned that, sorry about the confusion.
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Hi mosstrooper,
No, I'm the thoroughly confused person who brought up the subject of Airthrey Castle ;)
But if you look it up you'll find some similarities in the tower ;)
http://www.airthreycastle.co.uk/
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/features/featurefirst5252.html
http://website.lineone.net/~ross.britt-mari/Airthrey.html
;D
JAP
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Thanks very much for the suggestions. Dunmore Tower looks likely and it would make an easy trip from where the family was based.
There are, however a couple of differences between the tower in my photo and Dunmore. To the left of the conical tower in my shots are a couple of structures which could be chimney stacks. These don't appear on either the modern photo or the older engraving. There is also a ridge around the tower just below the conical roof, again, not in the Dunmore pictures. The castellations also look different - more pointed.
However, the location in not crucial to my investigation since I know they lived in or around Whitburn
at the time. I do however want to put names to faces.
Thank you once again and any more ideas would be welcome.
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Hi Alwef,
I made some scruffy sketches of the various photos and, comparing them, also found some differences between the family photos (the one which started this thread and your subsequent photo) vis-a-vis the lovely pictures of the Dunmore Tower. (I'm not sure if they are the same differences that you've found.)
Which is why, two or three posts back in my reply to Anne, I posed the question as to which tower is the one in the original photo (assuming it is one of those two and not a totally separate tower altogether :D ).
Perhaps someone else has another tower and turret to throw into the ring ;D
And who knows - perhaps a positive identification of the location just might help to identify the people ;)
All the very best,
JAP
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Re Linlithgow - it was the tower of St Michael's Church which was replaced back in 1964. There was a lot of comment at the time as it was considered to be too modern for such an old building. The church is right beside the palace. There's an arial photo of them on the Linlihgow Palace page of Historic Scotland's web site.
Airthrey Castle - that's now part of the University of Stirling. Definitely not any of the images posted.
Cheers
Hannah
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PS
Sorry, it's not an arial view of the church and palace, just one from the other side of Linlithgow Loch.
Hannah
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PS
Sorry, it's not an arial view of the church and palace, just one from the other side of Linlithgow Loch.
Hannah
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Hello JAP,
I think it is highly likely that it is the same tower in both photos. My grandfather is in the first, and one of his brothers from the first photo is the father in the second. In the second photo (family group) they appear to be nearer to the tower and at a slightly different angle.
Thanks for your comments, Hannah, but I'm not convinced about St Michael's church. On the church's website, it states that the church tower lost its crown in about 1820 and a new one was only added in 1964 - so the tower was 'topless' at the time of my photos.
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I know Linlithgow Palace and St Michaels very well. If you imagine the Palace and Church as a square, the North and West sides are bound by Linlithgow Loch, the South side joins directly onto the Town itself, and the west side does not have a bank of trees which are shown in the original photo.
The Palace and Church are built on a hill and you are looking up at them from whatever side you approach.
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Hi Alwef,
I think we might be talking at cross purposes ;)
I wasn't suggesting that your family photos were anything other than of one and the same tower :D
What I was doing was supporting the doubts you yourself had expressed as to whether your tower actually is the Dunmore Tower - as you said (and I agree) there do seem to be some differences.
Nevertheless, your tower is certainly very similar to pictures of the Dunmore Tower. And is also very similar to pictures of the Airthrey Castle tower. Perhaps one of the folk with local knowledge can comment on whether it would be possible to see either of these towers from a perspective similar to the view of your tower in your family photos (though no doubt there have been great changes to both those areas since the period when your photos were taken).
I guess there still remains the possibility that your tower is yet another tower which hasn't yet been mentioned ...
And - as you have said - it might not be in Stirlingshire (or might not even be in Scotland though you suspect that it is).
JAP
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I'm loving this thread! ;D
I haven't a clue where or what the tower is but there's been some fantastic links posted which hopefully will help anybody searching in the future.
A real whistlestop tour of my wee part of the country!
Anne
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I'm loving this thread! ;D
I haven't a clue where or what the tower is but there's been some fantastic links posted which hopefully will help anybody searching in the future.
A real whistlestop tour of my wee part of the country!
Anne
Dear Anne,
I'm glad you are enjoying this, here are some more Turrets and Towers for you.
This is Callander House Falkirk.
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Awww, thank you Mosstrooper!
What a pretty wee picture although I've never quite seen that view of Callendar House and I'm there a million times a year!
I think my favourite turrety/tower place, well, I have three favourites . . .
Inverary Castle, Dunrobin Castle and Floors Castle - can you tell I love these sorts of places??
In saying that, my all time favourite has to be Eilean Donan - although it's not really 'real' ;)
Anne
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Just to bring this thread up to date and back on topic, I sent the photos to RCAHMS, and have just received a response from their Buildings Survey Dept.
They do not think this is either Airthey Castle or Dunmore Tower but can't actually pin it down. The likelihood is that it is an ornate 19th C gatehouse, possibly by David Bryce.
Does that ring any further bells with anyone?
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I found this about him
http://web.archive.org/web/20110718111953/http://www.davidbryce.org.uk/intro.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20110718111953/http://www.davidbryce.org.uk/intro.html)
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Thanks Goldy. I can see why they suggested Bryce, though none of the buildings illustrated seem to fit my photos.
In over a hundred years, of course, some or all of the buildings may have disappeared, but they are quite distinctive and are likely to have been within striking distance, in 19th century terms, of Slamannan, this being where this part of the family lived at the time.
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Hi Alwef,
On the index page, there's an email address for the author of the site posted by Goldy (Mr Alastair Disley). Perhaps it might be worth sending him your photo for possible comment.
JAP
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Dont know why this reminded me of the hunt for the tower? http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14707660. Overtoun house Dumbarton
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Oh, dear. The original pic looks like a classic bit of Victorian mock Gothic, of which there are any number all over Scotland. However a lot of them have been demolished, so it may be that the one you're looking for no longer exists.
If you can cope with the number of images, try http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=53587661
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Hi,
I would suggest that Pittencrieff Park in Dunfermline is a contender for the location, with the square tower and adjacent steeple being part of Dunfermline Abbey. See attached link (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpBL5Q9qyzc2z-7VtRtmo-CttV2gap2l9q1XlBe9XnHOAdaJzY)
Regards
Istrice
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Pittencrieff Park in Dunfermline
I don't think so.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/26
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/402853
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/103053
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1686759
all show that the steeple on Dunfermline Abbey sits on a square tower which is much wider than the bottom of the steeple. The one in the mystery photo rises straight from the top of the wall of its tower.
Also http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2672551 shows that the Abbey isn't surrounded by trees, and there is no other building nearby with what look like the two chimneys in the mystery photo.
Also the Abbey sits at the top of a slope, and the land in the foreground of the mystery photo is flat.
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A bit lush looking for Slamannan, could be an institution and these guys work in it. A hospital, school or assylum, not Larbert, Woodilee, Gartloch or Lennox Castle, possibly long gone.
Skoosh.
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Can you recommend any sites that would give me some more background to Slamannan
I presume that you have read the Statistical Account and the New Statistical Account? And looked at the parish page on GENUKI?