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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: nequine on Tuesday 17 July 07 18:48 BST (UK)
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Dear Group
Dear Community
I am interested in finding out information about Daniel Thomas draper of Little or possibly Great Darkgate Street Aberystwyth who became mayor of "Aber" in 1910-11 - just before famed royal visit. He was born about 1855 in Langutto (sp?)
He was married to London born wife Elizabeth with whom he had a large family (all Aberystwyth born) daughters Mary Jane (born about 1882) Edith S (born about 1883) Gwen (born about 1899) , Nellie, Margaret L and Elizabeth and sons Ebenezer R (born about 1885) , Evan (born about 1890) and Edward D (born about 1896)
Is anyone researching this family?
Thanks
NEQUINE
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can't help you with much apart from Daniel's place of birth.
1881 7 Little Dark Gate St, Aberystwyth RG11/5445 folio 64 pg 24
Daniel Thomas Head mar 26 draper employing 2 boys b. Llangeitho
Elizabeth Ellen wife 25 b. London, Islington
+ a servant, an assistant and an apprentice
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llangeitho/
possible match from 1861, marriage cert would confirm father's name
Nantmelyn, Llangeitho RG9/4202 folio 70 pg 9
Rees Thomas head mar 52 carpenter b. Cards, Nantcwnlle
Sarah wife 47 b. Cards, Gwynfil
Elizabeth dau unm 28 b. Llangeitho
Elizabeth grand-dau 7 b. Llangeitho
Sarah grand-dau 6 months b. Llangeitho
Thomas son 9 b. Llangeitho
Daniel son 6 b. Llangeitho
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Not sure if you have the 1901 Census - it lists all the children you have mentioned - if you use freebdm you can find the registration quarter for most of the children - they all seem to be registered with 2 names, so relatively easy to find - apart from 2 possibilities for Mary Jane
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
1901
RG13/5153 53/49 Aberystwyth Cardiganshire Wales
Daniel Thomas head M 46 Draper and Outfitter Cardigan LLangeitto
Elizabeth E do wife M 45 London
Mary Jane do daur S 19 drapers assistant Cardigan Aberystwyth
Edith S do daur S 18 do do
Ebenezer R do son S 15 do do
Elizabeth P do daur S 13 do do
Margaret L do daur S 9 do do
Nellie M do daur S 8 do do
Edward D do son S 5 do do
Gwen E do daur S 2 do do
John William James Serv S 27 Drapers asst Herefordshire
Evan Thomas sert S 16 apprentice Card. Lampeter
Henry B Davis serv S 15 do Card. llanon
Mary Griffiths serv S 14 Gen servant Card Tregaron
Trish
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Dear Both
Thanks for your help and for giving me another possible steer. I know how frustrating "Mary Jane" can be to try to find, but the point about the middle names is certainly apt and I will look on free bmd. I hope there are not as many Ebenezers as there seem to be "Mary Janes".
The census link is also helpful - and helps link the mayor to his father. I wish I understood the place names rather better and was sure that transcriptions were accurate. I will try to track down the marriage certificate.
Thanks again for your time and for reminding me of some of the more obvious place. Often in frustration over the surname Thomas the obvious gets overlooked.
On the more general subject of Welsh mayors - were they political appointments, mercantile appointments, elected?
Nequine
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Sorry, I committed the sin of assuming you had the 1901 census as you knew all the children's names. :-[
Took a while to find them in 1891 as Ancestry's indexing has joined them to the Davies family next door but they're Thomas on the census itself.
20 & 22 Little Darkgate St, Aberystwyth RG12/4558 folio 68 pgs 35-36
Daniel Thomas head mar 36 draper & outfitter b. Llangeitho
Elizabeth E wife 35 b. Aberystwyth
Mary J dau 9 b. Aberystwyth
Edith S dau 8 b. Aberystwyth
Ebenezer R son 5 b. Aberystwyth
Elizabeth P dau 3 b. Aberystwyth
John Rees Jones nephew 21 joiner b. Llangeitho
John Bonsall 22 draper's assistant b. Aberystwyth
John Wm Jones 17 draper's apprentice b. Grantham, Lincolnshire
Samuel Thompson 16 draper's apprentice b. New York, USA, British subject
Elizabeth Williams 17 general servant b. Cards, Blaenpennal
Margaret Davies 15 house servant b. Cards, Cwmystwyth
Think you'll need a birth certificate to get Elizabeth's maiden name before you can find their marriage. There's nothing showing on FreeBmd that looks obvious.
Edith Sarah Thomas june qtr Aberystwyth vol 11b pg 66
Luckily, Ebenezer's middle initial is on the census as there is more than one Ebenezer Thomas registered in 1885
Ebenezer Rees Thomas june qtr 1885 Aberystwyth
Middle name makes Daniel's father in 1861 look good.
Can't see Daniel in 1871, but he should be apprenticed and could be anywhere.
If you having problems with Welsh place names, you could post on Rootschat and ask. This is a list of Cardiganshire place names that might help
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Gazetteer.html
If he became mayor, he must have been a local councillor. You could ask the local archives for some help
http://archifdy-ceredigion.org.uk/
I'd suggest visiting the archives, but your profile doesn't say where you are.
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I think I listed 1901 - so it was no problem Osprey ???
As the children are all born in Aberystwyth use that as the district when searching FreeBDM for their names & approx years & you will discover they are very easy to find. The only one I found duplicated was Mary Jane - Dec 1881 or Sep 1882. Perhaps because the surname was Thomas, the parents decided to give them two names on registration :) :)
If two names are given, the closest possibility I see for the marriage is
Mar 1878 (seems a little distant from the first child)
Elizabeth Ellen Phillips
Daniel Thomas
Ref 11b 509
Festiniog - an alternative name for Ffestiniog and it spans the boundaries of the counties of Caernarvonshire and Merionethshire
(I am not very good with Welsh names and geography, so I don't really know if this is a possibility)
There are many marriages in Wales between Daniel Thomas and Elizabeth ... at around the right time, but I thought Elizabeth Ellen looked possible.
Trish
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I'm not researching the family but I remember Daniel Thomas the drapers shop in the 1940s, 50s and 60s (I don't go any further back). It was on the corner of Pier St and New St. This was a crossroads - Pier St runs east to west, New St runs north to south and the last leg of the cross is Eastgate St (Little Darkgate St) running south to north. I believe the shop changed hands later in the century.
My uncle, David William Jones, worked in the shop until his death in 1964.
Cheers Dave
PS: I no longer have notification of posts on Cardiganshire or Montgomeryshire boards. Is one taken off the list after a particular time :o
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Trish, sorry to confuse. I assumed Nequine had the info so said I couldn't help apart from finding birthplace when I would have given all the census info if I'd realised. You posted 1901 so all's well. :)
Ffestiniog isn't near and as Elizabeth gives Islington as her place of birth twice, they could have met anywhere, possibly where he was apprenticed. Only 2 Daniel Thomas marriages in Cardiganshire, one registered Lampeter, one Cardigan but again suspicious gap before the first child.
I quoted the Ebenezer registration as his middle name Rees showed that the family I found in Llangeitho was a good bet. Also, there is another Ebenezer registered the same year.
I have my own Thomas family from Llanbadarn Fawr just inland from Aberystwyth, and would be very thankful to have just one child with a middle name so that they stand out in the registrations. ;)
The record office is very helpful - I was there a month ago and it's very relaxed, though if you do get stressed, you can just cross the road and walk along the beach. I think I saw histories of Aberystwyth corporation there, but don't quote me on it.
davierj, have you switched off your notifications? Otherwise, the replies keep on coming....
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Osprey - Thomas/Llanbadarn Fawr/Aberystwyth - and a real lack of imagination with the first names. tell me about it ;D.
The other Ebenezer Thomas born in 1885 is one of mine. Parents Evan and Sarah née Jones.
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The other Ebenezer Thomas born in 1885 is one of mine. Parents Evan and Sarah née Jones.
Amazing - of all the Thomas's in the world someone on RootsChat owns the other Ebenezer ;D ;D
Now we need someone to claim one of the Mary Jane's ;D ;D
Seems this is the place to be ;D ;D
Trish
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Gallium, what's the likelihood of that? 8)
Just to make life more interesting my direct line moved to Cardiff. Now that was fun looking for a John and before Ancestry introduced the parent name search. ::) ::)
Are you one of the others that has posted about Llanbadarn churchyard - possibly the steepest ever seen?
Back to the case in hand - I've spotted Daniel in 1871, think the enumerator got his dittoes mixed up
Pier St, Aberystwyth RG10/5561 folio 73 pgs 45 - 46
Thomas Davies head mar 50 draper b. Llangeitho
Mary Ann wife 39 b. Ysbyty Cynfyn
Mary Jane dau 16 b. Aberystwyth
Thomas Lumley son 15 b. Aber
Frederick Albert son 7 b. Aber
John William Stephen son 6 b. Aber
Daniel George son 3 b. Aber
David Charles son 3 b. Aber
Grace Yeates 22 governess b. Liverpool, Lancashire
Lewis Griffiths unm 35 draper's assistant b. Llanfihangel y Creuddyn
Thomas Jones 23 draper's assistant b. Llangeitho
John David Rowlands 20 draper's assistant b. Llanilar
Daniel Thomas 16 draper's apprentice b. Llanilar
Mary Jones 24 cook b. Caernarvonshire, Llanberis
Margaret Davies 24 housemaid b. Llanfihangel y Creuddyn
all pobs in Cardiganshire unless otherwise stated, Aber = Aberystwyth.
Suspect this is the correct Daniel. His pob was dittoed from entry above, but think it should have been Llangeitho.
You'd expect the marriage to be in Aberystwyth if both parties were living there or in one of the home parishes. Well, it doesn't seem to be in Tregaron(covered Llangeitho) or Aberystwyth unless it hasn't been transcribed on FreeBmd. Looks like Elizabeth's family might be the clue.
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Hi I have researched this family quite a bit! The mother was Elizabeth Ellen Phillips born in Islington to Edward and Elizabeth Phillips (née Williams) who both came from Aber. When Edward Phillips died in 1858, Elizabeth sent her daughter to live with her parents in Aber. Funnily enough, the same thing happened to her half sister and brother when Elizabeth herself died in 1872 . and The David Thompson living with the family as a draper's assistant i actually her brother. I have a 1911 census printout for the family if you would be interested, which gives the full names of all children. I am interested in this family because I am descended from one of Eliz Ellen's half sisters. For more information please email me.
I hope this interests you :)
Daniel
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Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
I suggest that, unless you want to be inundated with spam, you should remove your email address. There's a system of person messages (pms) on the boards, but you need to have posted 2 or 3 times before you can use it. You could just reply to this post to reach the required number.
You can send a pm by clicking on the green scroll at the bottom left hand side of a post.
;)
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Hello everybody
I am new to Roots Chat. I just discovered these messages because I put "Nantmelyn Llangeitho" into Google and one of the entries was "Daniel Thomas draper and one time mayor of Aberystwyth". I was astonished because Daniel Thomas was my husband's Grandfather and I have been doing a lot of research on this family. Gwendolen Eluned, youngest daughter of Daniel Thomas was my mother-in-law. So in know the answer to some of these questions. For example, Daniel Thomas married Elizabeth Ellen Phillips in Trawsfynned because the Rector of Trawsfynned was her uncle. But I discovered a lot of new information from scrabblerDMT, so want to reply to this PM, but I haven't got 3 posts yet. This is Number 1. I hope it isn't too late to contact some of you who are interested in Daniel Thomas, for example NEQUINE, as well as scrabblerDMT. I wish I had discovered this website sooner!
Hope to hear from some of you.
Abersleuth :)
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Hello Abersleuth- don't think I've done 3 either :( which means I don't think I can PM. Fascinated to hear of your connection- you might be interested to know that Elizabeth's (née Williams) descendants by her second husband are actually all fairly well researched (mainly by myself and a late cousin). I am still very much interested in this branch of my paternal grandfather's family (whose grandmother was Elizabeth Ellen's half sister), but cannot quite think of how to get in touch with PM-ing. Except- perhaps they will not allow postal addresses, but I live in London, so we could always exchange correspondence!
All the Best :),
Daniel
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Dear scrabbler DMT
You have made two posts, so if you do one more, by replying to this, you will be able to send me a PM and we can arrange how to communicate. I go to London often so perhaps we could meet. I would love to share with you what I know about Elizabeth Ellen and the Williams and Phillips families and learn from you about Elizabeth's descendants by her second husband.
If you reply to this you will have reached the magic 3! ;)
Abersleuth
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I am still hoping for a reply from scrabbler DMT so we can exchange more information, but for everyone interested in Daniel Thomas, here is a photograph of Daniel Thomas and his wife Elizabeth Ellen (nee Phillips) as Mayor and Mayoress of Aberystwythm 1911-12.
Abersleuth
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dear Nequine,
This site proved very helpful to me
http://www.llanbadarnchurchyard.org.uk/index.html
kind regards
dave56
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Hi,
Having my roots in Llangeitho (my grandmother's birthplace) there has been a family story about a 'cousin' being the Mayor of Aberystwyth. However the usual Chinese whispers that you get with genealogy sent me off on a wild goose chase to no avail. Finding this post has set me off again especially as seeing the photo of the Mayors wife was uncanny . She has got my nose! (or have I got hers??)
This makes me think the connection may be on my great grandmothers side as she was a Williams too. Catherine Wiliams, daughter of John and Dorothy Williams of Rhyfydyr Lledrod. Am I barking up the wrong tree again?
Many thanks
Amanda
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Hi Amanda,
I don't think you can have a Williams connection here, as the Williams from which Elizabeth Ellen Thomas came were firmly an Aberystwyth family.
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Sorry to but into your chat but thought one of you may be able to give me some info please. I'm also looking for a Mayor of Aberystwyth. All I think I know is that Catherine Jones of Great Dark Street in Aber had an ancestor who was the Mayor.This is where the family story says the money came from.
I've tried searching through Google but found little help as I'm searching for pre 1860.
Anyone got any ideas please. He would be a Jones I think but possibly a Howells ( but I think Howells were in the mines then so not likely )
Thank you.
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Hi from Australia. I am very new to all this Family History and computer stuff. I am very interested to hear more info on David William Thompson, draper assistant to Daniel Thomas in the 1881 census. D.W. Thompson is my Great Grandfather. I would love to know who the two women that his father married are, and any info on his siblings.I am under the impression that Elizabeth Ellen Thomas nee Phillips was the eldest of two girls. Annie being her sister from the first marriage. The second marriage produced Maggie and David William (junior). Have I got this right .
And a big thank you to Abersieuth for the fabulous photograph of the Lord Mayor and his wife.
Thanks in advance Wendy
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About what date was the Jones/Howells ancestor mayor miggs191?
Dave
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Hi from Australia again. Have since found out Eliz. Ellen's mother, (Elizabeth Phillips nee Williams,) married David William Thompson(senior) after her first husband (Edward Phillips) died in 1858. David William Thompson (senior) had 2 children to Elizabeth. A daughter Maggie , and a son David William Thompson. David William Thompson (junior) in my Great Grandfather. I would love to talk with scrabblerDMT, or anyone else who may have info. that could help .
Cheers auswendy.