RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: davieboy on Tuesday 24 July 07 19:51 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
im trying to find out if John Neely & Margaret Jane Boyd had any more children that the ones that I already know about.
All I have from IGI is Oliver Neely (c1860) and Sarah Neely (1866)
-
Can't see Oliver Neely born c1860 on IGI but there is a Margaret Jane Neely born 25 Jan.1849 Co.Derry. Since John Neely and Margaret Jane Boyd were married in 1844 (Co.Derry) it is very likely that there were other children but unfortunately civil registration of births only started in 1864 so you will probably need to find baptism and other church records.
-
thanks aghadowey,
I am a direct descendant of Oliver Neely & I am sure I have seen his birth on IGI. Even so thanks for the info regards his sister & parents
-
Checked again and no Oliver Neely born Ireland shows up on IGI or anything on LDS site. If Oliver was born c1860 it's before the start of civil registration of births but you might be able to find a baptismal record.
-
aghadowey
I just checked my notes and i originally got the birth date / year from his death certificate in Scotland.
as he was born around 1860 and his sister Margaret Jane was born in 1849 can you find out if there are any other siblings between these years
-
There is an Oliver Neely birth on IGI for 1880 - parents Oliver Neely and Elizabeth Frazer (who according to IGI married in 1891). Perhaps it was this one you came across before.
-
as he was born around 1860 and his sister Margaret Jane was born in 1849 can you find out if there are any other siblings between these years
Can't see Oliver Neely born c1860 on IGI but there is a Margaret Jane Neely born 25 Jan.1849 Co.Derry. Since John Neely and Margaret Jane Boyd were married in 1844 (Co.Derry) it is very likely that there were other children but unfortunately civil registration of births only started in 1864 so you will probably need to find baptism and other church records.
-
There is an Oliver Neely birth on IGI for 1880 - parents Oliver Neely and Elizabeth Frazer (who according to IGI married in 1891). Perhaps it was this one you came across before.
thanks scotmum,
The Oliver Neely I was asking about married Lizzie Fraser in St Columbs Londonderry in 22/10/1880. Oliver jnr was born the following year in Londonderry before the family moved to Glasgow around 1883ish.
Oliver snr is my GG grandfather. Oliver jnr is my G grandmothers brother.
-
IGI lists 6 children born to Oliver Neely & Elizabeth Frazer but some of these are submitted records which need to be treated with caution.
The Oliver Neely I was asking about married Lizzie Fraser in St Columbs Londonderry in 22/10/1880.
If Oliver Neely was married in 1880 it is more than likely that he was born before 1860. Does his marriage give his age?
-
Also, his church of marriage may have been his wife's local, but equally it could have also been his - so may also be where his birth was registered. Have you tried them for records from the timescale you need?
-
http://www.stcolumbscathedral.org/
-
IGI lists 6 children born to Oliver Neely & Elizabeth Frazer but some of these are submitted records which need to be treated with caution.
The Oliver Neely I was asking about married Lizzie Fraser in St Columbs Londonderry in 22/10/1880.
If Oliver Neely was married in 1880 it is more than likely that he was born before 1860. Does his marriage give his age?
I sure i got his age from his death certificate and done the maths as they say, but I also have a 1891 census return from scotlands people making him 31 at the time with his wife Lizzie being 32 so I am pretty confident that he was born around 1860
-
OLIVER NEELY MARRIED LIZZIE FRASER 22-9-1881 AT ST.COLUMBS COFI TEMPLEMORE DERRY.
REGARDS MARY.
-
Hi,
im trying to find out if John Neely & Margaret Jane Boyd had any more children that the ones that I already know about.
Do you know anything about John (1819) Neely's parents or sibling?
-
Joe,
Unfortunately I know very little about John Neely's parents or his siblings.
-
I think my great great grandfather Robert was a younger brother of his. John was born in 1819 and Robert was born in 1921. Where Robert's children were christened, marriage records show there was also a William and an Alexander who were probably about the same age and a Matthew who was possibly about 10 years older, so there could have been a number of brothers not just the two we know about.
How much have you on John's descendents? A lot went to Scotland but some stayed in Ireland.
-
Joeyscat
from what I can gather 3 of John's sons went to live in Glasgow & I have a lot of information regarding them.
I also have photographs of a memorial to John & his wife from a small cemetery in Londonderry just near the border with the south.
Im also pretty sure that Matthew is his son also and reckon that his son was the founder of the funeral directors called Neely from Londonderry.
As an aside, one of the sons who moved to Glasgow had a descendant, also called Matthew, who was killed in Cyprus during the conflict there in the 1950's.
-
Yeah he had 5 sons and two daughters from the information I have, three went to Scotland and one, Robert, definitely stayed in Derry, his family were the ones that became Neely and Adair the undertakers. The monument was put up by Mathew to his father at Killea, I don't know what happened to him apart from the fact he was alive to put the monument up and died in 1918 presumably still in Derry, he would have been the youngest. I don't know if Matthew was also in the funeral business but I can find out, I know Robert's great-grandson I'll be talking to him this week sometime, his father also ran the business until he retired.
This isn't my information, I recently came across it when trying to piece together my line, which is why I was interested in John's parents. You probably already know this stuff.
-
Joeyscat
I have some of this information and was unaware about Robert.
I only knew about Margaret Jane, James, John, Matthew, Oliver & Sarah. The 3 sons who came to Scotland were John, Oliver (I am descended through Oliver) & James and they all settled in the Anderston area of Glasgow and in particular Grace St.
That area is more or less flattened now and the family dispersed throughout Scotland and I have also came into contact with people in Canada, France & New Zealand.
I was over at St Columbs 3/4 years ago (during the renovaion) and got the opportunity to look through the parish records. I'm hoping to take my mum over next spring for her birthday as she has never been
-
Was that the 1901 Oliver? Was he your grandad?
-
Oliver Neely married Lizzie Fraser in St Columbs in 1880 and had a son Oliver in 1881 and the William in 1882. According to later Scottish census, both were born in Ireland (I assume Londonderry) however they had a daughter Margaret Jane in 1883 who, along with subsequent children, was born in Glasgow which indicates when they travelled to Glasgow.
I am a GGGrandson of Oliver Neely.
The Oliver Neely born in 1901 is, I reckon, the grandson of Oliver & Lizzie Fraser and son of Oliver b1881 in Londonderry.
-
According to the info I have they had five more after Margaret Jane. Oliver 1901 was a son of the 1881 Oliver.
-
Hi there, my great Grandfather was a Joseph Neely, born 1838 Londonderry, he lived and worked in londonderry all of his life. His profession was carpenter, but in fact he was a coffin maker. He married Elizabeth Wright in 1862, his father before him was also Joseph, a confectioner. i have always felt that there was a connection to the undertakers Adair and Neely. Can anyone tell me how far back the Neely's have been in the funeral business.
Regards Daisy
-
I can find out. I know the son of the last Neely who sold up the business when he retired I will be speaking to him soon and I will ask him. I think it was his grandfather that started it which would have made it early 1900s . I don't think it went back past that as the previous one was a farmer.
We had a Joseph as well, brother of my gg, who was a carpenter but he was born in 1845, his father was called Robert. Have you any other names and dates going further back?
-
All the information i have as follows, Joseph Neely born 1838, coffin maker, married Elizabeth Wright in 1862 in the first presbyterian church, Templemore, Londonderry. Children where Mary Ann, Joseph William, Samuel John, Jane, Josephine, and Georgina. As far as i know Josephs father also Joseph, was a confectioner, but i believe that the Neely family owned somekind of carrier business, which eventually became the funeral business. i think that my Joseph, the coffin maker, possibly worked for the early company, and there was somekind of family connection, although i have not been able to tie it in. I have also been told that the Neely family originally bred horses for the military in County Donegall, although i have not checked that out as i havn't got that far back in my research, but it would make sense with them having a carrier business.
Regards Daisy
-
Daisy
it certainly is a possibility that there is a relationship somewhere. The marriage extract that I have of Oliver Neely & Lizzie Frazer states that his father John was a horse dealer.
-
Thanks for that Davie, the Neely's where such a large family, Its difficult to know which strand that we all come from, still trying to unravel it all.
Regards Daisy
-
I've just been sent another marriage certificate for what shows as one of Oliver's brothers, Robert, who was re-married in 1882, and John is shown as a spirit Merchant - I've seen him down as an Inn Keeper somewhere else as well. However on this this certificate Robert is described as a horse dealer so he may have taken that over by then. It was his son, also Robert, who I think started the undertaker business. Interestingly in 1882 they were married in Blythswood and their address was given as 77 Renfrew Street, but they seemed to mostly be back in Derry by 1901, although Robert and Robert jr seem not to have been in Ireland for the census so may have been in Scotland at the time.
-
Joeyscat,
From memory when I was at the General Registers Office in Belfast, i'm sure it states on John Neely's death entry that he owned a hotel. It was either that or a census record.
When you mentioned Robert's marriage in Glasgow, I also did a quick search for Neely births in Glasgow around this time and in the Anderston district in particular.
I found a record for James Dunsith Neely to James Neely & Margaret Jane Rossborough. It states that the parents were married in Laroy/Lavoy Derry in 1878.
I dont think that this is the brother of Oliver & Robert as I have a record of hme being married to a Mary Isabella Scott.
Do any of these names / places mean anything to you?
-
Hi,
1878 James Neely married Margaret ROSBOROUGH in LARGY Presbyterian Church, Parish of CARRICK, Limavady District, Co. Londonderry.
Regards
-
Kingkerswell,
is there any information regarding the parents in this marriage entry?
-
Sorry but I have no more information on this marriage. The fathers' names and occupations should be mentioned on the marriage certificate.
Regards
-
No probs Kingkerswell. Thanks for getting back to me.
-
I found a record for James Dunsith Neely to James Neely & Margaret Jane Rossborough. It states that the parents were married in Laroy/Lavoy Derry in 1878.
and
1878 James Neely married Margaret ROSBOROUGH in LARGY Presbyterian Church, Parish of CARRICK, Limavady District, Co. Londonderry.
Children of James Neely and Margaret Rosborough-
Mary McCully (1879) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGNV-DRZ
Robert (1881) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGV9-89T
-
Children of James Neely & Mary Scott-
John (1876) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGK6-8SZ
James (1877) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGJY-P7D
Not sure this is the same couple you are looking for.
-
Children of James Neely & Mary Scott-
John (1876) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGK6-8SZ
James (1877) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGJY-P7D
Not sure this is the same couple you are looking for.
Aghadowey,
This family are related to my Neely's. I just found it strange / coincidence that another James Neely, married to Margaret Rosborough, from Londonderry settled in the same district of Glasgow as my Neely's and was exploring the possibility of them being cousins.
-
I get the impression there was a bit of an exodus to Glasgow and surrounding areas in the mid 1800s there was obviously a lot more work there and I think the boat went direct from Derry to Glasgow. Most of the immigrants probably settled in the same districts for work. There are Neelys all over the north of Ireland in the 1800s, as well as in Scotland and Northern England, it's possible the Limavady ones are connected, possibly not, but if they are it would go back into the 18th century for sure.
There are at least three sorts of Neely kicking around, most seemingly connected at some point to the same general area which is Derry/ Donegal, and with a lot of common christian names, but genetically completely unconnected. Which confuses things slightly...
-
joeyscat
I understand what youre saying but ive spent an absolute fortune on Scotlands People researching the Neely's in Scotland around the 1880-1920 and of those in the Anderston district of Glasgow city this is the only one that I have found who is not related to my ancestors.
-
Most of mine - who would probably have been connected to yours a few generations before that - seemed to finish up in Newmains if they didn't stay in Derry.
-
Not sure if I have managed to post this ok
This is on facebook page- 400th anniversary of derrys walls - its an old advertisement for Neelys undertakers https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=603147783090185&set=pb.455162731222025.-2207520000.1390667768.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2F1620403_603147783090185_894518804_n.jpg&size=910%2C772
Just thought it was interesting.
-
Daveyboy,
Re William Frazer and Margaret Gilliland. As you know they married 12 Sept. 1854 Tullycorbet Monaghan. They later moved to Londonderry. Margaret died in Londonderry 25 Nov. 1884 and is buried in the Derry City Cemetery (grave 745) along with a David Frazer who I presume was her son born about 1856. After Margaret's death William married Elizabeth Crawford 14 May 1886 and they had a daughter Emma Frances Rice Frazer born 5 April 1887 Bundoran Co. Donegal. The 1901 census has Emma at her half sister's place in Londonderry. Her name was Maggie Cabena (nee Frazer) who was born around 1863. Emma married a John Temple in Londonderry in 1908. Another daughter of William and Margaret was Jane born 1864 who married a William Stewart and lived in Londonderry. Yet another daughter Elizabeth Frazer born about 1859/60 married Oliver Neely in Londonderry 23 Nov 1880 and they moved to Glasgow.
-
According to the marriage certificte posted earlier in this thread (reply #25) the Neely-Frazer marriage took place 22 Sept.1881 which matches the entry in the civil registration index-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYWW-YZ7
You perhaps got the date of 23 Nov.1880 from a Scottish certificate.
-
Daveyboy,
Re William Frazer and Margaret Gilliland. As you know they married 12 Sept. 1854 Tullycorbet Monaghan. They later moved to Londonderry. Margaret died in Londonderry 25 Nov. 1884 and is buried in the Derry City Cemetery (grave 745) along with a David Frazer who I presume was her son born about 1856. After Margaret's death William married Elizabeth Crawford 14 May 1886 and they had a daughter Emma Frances Rice Frazer born 5 April 1887 Bundoran Co. Donegal. The 1901 census has Emma at her half sister's place in Londonderry. Her name was Maggie Cabena (nee Frazer) who was born around 1863. Emma married a John Temple in Londonderry in 1908. Another daughter of William and Margaret was Jane born 1864 who married a William Stewart and lived in Londonderry. Yet another daughter Elizabeth Frazer born about 1859/60 married Oliver Neely in Londonderry 23 Nov 1880 and they moved to Glasgow.
Robert
Thanks very much for the information. It helps a lot.
Are you related to any of the people In the post as I am related to Elizabeth & Oliver?
-
Davieboy,
William's father Hans is my Gt Gt Grandfather. William's sister Maria married Robert Wilson in Monaghan and I am descended from them. My grandmother Ellen Wilson married Robert Smith and they lived in Glasgow. My father William settled in Australia in 1948.
Regards,
Robert E. Smith
-
Hi Robert E Smith - I just noticed a reference in your message about Grave No.745
In 2010 I wrote to the Irish Family History Foundation about a "Plot No. 0745" on a transcript of a Grave in Londonderry City Cemetery and received the following reply from Brian Mitchell
"Thank you for your email which Irish Family History Foundation has forwarded to me.
"The plot number 745 in this cases refers to an ID number for Derry City Cemetery and not to a particular grave.
"It is only by examining the actual registers of Derry City Cemetery can you identify the location of burial plots."
-
Beth42,
Thanks for the tip. I just assumed plot 0745 meant grave 0745.
regards,
Robert
-
There was a mention earlier of a Neely grave at Killea?. Was this at Crossroads Presbyterian Church? One of my grandmother's cousins, George Cole married Christina Elizabeth Neely born 1897. They lived in Killea so I wondered if she belongs to the same family. They were married in 1921.
-
Hello, I am the g/grandson of Jane Frazer and William Stewart. I have details of all of William Frazer and Margaret Gilliland families. The plot numbers you have quoted '745' is not the actual grave number in the City Cemetery. I have all the Frazer grave numbers and photos of those who have a headstone. I have photos of Jane Frazer's family. Photo of Emma Frances Rice Temple as well. Look forward to corresponding further.