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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Nikk on Friday 27 July 07 20:27 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out if anyone else is looking for the Thorpe's or Esgates who lived in the Tilney St Lawrence area of Norfolk, as they are related to my nan and grandad Thorpe (now deceased... early 2000's.)
My Great grandad (Edward Thorpe) was also a lodger with the Thickpenny's in the latter 1800's, when he was about 15 years of age. We know that he married, and had my grandad Charles Thorpe in 1903, but has disappeared off the radar. We have been told that he died around 1917, but don't know where or when. All we know is that he left his wife and very young family... and we don't know any more. Can any one fill in any blanks before or after this? Or do you know the Thickpennys? I think I have traced them back, but would like to know if any photo's, etc excist of their home, family or my grandad, etc.
The Esgates are my mums, mums, side of the family. My nan was Lily Bullock, and her mum was a Esgate...I have done well with this bit of the family, but haven't traced Lily's dad (Bullock) yet. Can you help?
Thanks Nikki
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Note to lookers up: a related thread on the Lincs board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,246946.msg1354208.html#msg1354208
I guess this 1901 census entry relates to Edward
Thorough Field, Walpole St Peter
William THICKPENNY 67 Gen AgLab, W St P
Charlotte 70 Emneth
John Thomas (son,unm) 45 Gen AgLab, Denver
Edward THORP (Boarder) 14 Horseman on Farm, Not Known
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Edward was with the Thickpenny's in 1891 too at Walpole St. Peter - shown as Edward P. Thorp bc.1887 Wakefield, Yorkshire.
Can't see any obvious birth entry.
He married as Edward Percy Thorpe in 1909 Wisbech to Nellie Esgate. I've found his death too - Edward P. Thorpe aged 31 d. Dec.qtr.1918 at Stamford.
Annette
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He married as Edward Percy Thorpe in 1909 Wisbech to Nellie Esgate.
This casts some doubt on the 1903 date for Charles's birth, doesn't it?
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what was Lily's parents names?
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Edward was with the Thickpenny's in 1891 too at Walpole St. Peter - shown as Edward P. Thorp bc.1887 Wakefield, Yorkshire.
Was it just a coincidence that there were THORPs next door?
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Fantastic info so far. I am on holiday at present... and have just been shown this fab site. When I get home I will investigate further.
I am really interested in the last piece of info. What makes you think the thorpes may have lived next door to the thickpennys? Or was that just a guess because the two both lived with the Thickpennys?
Thank you very much with your help so far? I am so impressed... can't wait to return home, so that I can get on with this with more details at hand.
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In 1891 next door to the Thickpenny's were a George Thorp 80 with wife Mary 77 and grand-daughter Agnes 17. Seemed somewhat of a coincidence but think it's a red herring. Followed back on this George and Mary - they had just 2 children - a dau. Ann who married an Isaac Truman Copeland in 1867 and a son John who didn't seem to have any children.
Checked again for possible birth entry for Edward Percy Thorpe. Seems just 1 real possibility - a Percy Thorpe was born Dec.qtr. 1886 Wakefield. Cannot find any further trace of a plain Percy so this could well be your Edward Percy.
Annette
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Hi Annette,
Got into this now...I now know that Edward Thorpe was born Oct/Nov/Dec 1887 in Walpole St Peter cert. 7a 385. But I cannot trace his death.
I also messed up. My grandad Charles Thorpe was born in 1913, not 1903! Aparently his dad, Edward (above) was supposed to have died when his children were very young, and my grandad was the youngest! But I do not know any more than this... I would like to trace Edward Thorpes death and possibly find out how and where he died! I have been told that he wasn't living with his family when he died! But I know now more than this!
I am still not at home, but rellying on the internet for info at the moment!
Thanks again
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Annette I've just looked back and found that you have found that Edward percy died in Stamford....
Would you suggest that I buy the death cert to find out more... or is there any other way that I can find out info and find out what he died from, why he was in stamford and not with his family, where he was living before his death, etc?
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Toni
Thanks for asking what Lilys parents were called... I don't know.
All I know was that nan was born Lily violet Bullock on 11th July, 1916 and died aged 85 in October, 2001
How can I trace her parents as she wasn't on the 1901 cencus, because she wasn't born!
Nik
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Nik, the 1891 Census states that Edward P. Thorp was born Wakefield, Yorkshire. The birth entry you mention is in Spalding District, Lincs so how can you be sure that is him? Although I can't find him in 1891 the only Edward Thorpe born in the time frame in Lincolnshire is with father Edward and siblings in Lincolnshire in 1901 (born Deeping) so can't be your Edward who was in Norfolk. I would certainly suggest you get the death certificate - that way you will know what he died from, where he was living and who the informant of his death was. I would also suggest getting his marriage certificate in case it states name of father (although I feel that since he didn't live with his family he may have been illegitimate).
Will be interesting to know what you find out.
Annette
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Nik
Lily Violet Bullock was born in Kings Lynn Reg. District - mothers maiden name Raines. Searched for a marriage between Bullock and Raines and the only possibility seems to be an Arthur Albert Bullock and Pleasance Rebecca Raines who married Freebridge Lynn, Norfolk in 1896. On 1901 Census they were living at Parson Drove, Cambridgeshire:
Arthur Bullock 27 born West Lynn, Norfolk
Pleasance (indexed as Plessand) Bullock 27 born Castle Rising, Norfolk
Charles Bullock 3 born Clenchwarton, Norfolk
Gertrude Bullock 1 born Magdalen, Norfolk
A daughter Ruby M. Bullock (mother Raines) is reg'd Mar.1913 Kings Lynn and no doubt other children born Cambs./Norfolk between 1901 and 1913. Your Lily was clearly the youngest.
1881 Census Clenchwarton, Norfolk
Charles Bullock 45 born Banningham, Norfolk
Hannah Bullock 43 born Alby, Norfolk
William Bullock 18 born Alby, Norfolk
Robert C. Bullock 13 born West Lynn, Norfolk
Charles H. Bullock 9 born West Lynn
Arthur A. Bullock 6 born West Lynn
Anne E. Bullock 3 born West Lynn
1881 Castle Rising, Norfolk
William Raines 47 born Castle Rising
Ann Raines 43 born Massingham, Norfolk
Elizabeth S. Raines 12 born Castle Rising
Martha A. Raines 11 born Castle Rising
William Raines 9 born Castle Rising
Walter Raines 7 born Castle Rising
Pleasance R. Raines 6 born Castle Rising
Agnes S. Raines 5 born Castle Rising
Rachel Raines no age born Castle Rising
This should give you lots to go on.
Annette
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Hi Annette,
Got into this now...I now know that Edward Thorpe was born Oct/Nov/Dec 1887 in Walpole St Peter cert. 7a 385.
A birth in Walpole St Peter ought to have been registered as Wisbech 3b XXX
You can't claim the one in Spalding just because he happens to be the only one registered in Lincolnshire in 1887. I'll grant that Tilney is only juuust in Norfolk, but you have to pass through Wisbech and Holbeach registration districts to get to Spalding from there.
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Thank you so much on the info about my nan (Lilys) side of the family.
I am know confused about Edward thorpe and which one I am related to? But when I get home from holiday I shall get my bits and bobs sorted. I had ordered the wedding certificate of Nellie and Edward (3b, 1290 - as I know this is a definate) so maybe this may shed some light, or maybe I will have to wait until the 1911 census is released to find out for certain!
Thank you both for your help so far.
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Hi
Dont know if you will get this mess , but i am related to the bullock family who you was looking for information about in 2008 .
If you still are looking then reply and we could exchange details What we know about the bullock surname, i am interested about Annie Bullock who i believe could be the brother of charles with Pleasence Rebecca being their mother
Regards
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I joined Rootschat back in 2007 and this thread was the first I posted on!
I fully appreciate this was 11 years ago now and that the OP has not been active on Rootschat since 2009. However, at the time I suggested that Edward Percy Thorp bc.1887 Wakefield was the Percy Thorpe birth reg'd Dec.1886 Wakefield and I now feel certain that was the case.
GRO's own index now shows the birth was illegitimate (as was suspected) and although shown as Edward P Thorp in 1891 and 1901 the next census find's him listed as plain Percy Thorpe living with wife and infant son in Outwell, Cambridgeshire. Can't post full details due to copyright but this is definitely the right family.
So, thought I'd post this in case someone else comes upon this thread in the future - it would definitely seem that Edward Percy Thorp/e born circa 1887 Wakefield and Percy Thorpe birth reg'd Dec.qtr.1886 Wakefield are one and the same. Only acquisition of the birth certificate will show who his mother was.
However, a word of warning - there is just one tree on Ancestry (by Fenlander2010) for Edward Percy Thorp/e and it shows him as the son of an Edward Thorpe and wife Mary Ann King and a birthdate of 13/9/1887. This is incorrect - this person was a plain Edward, born in Deeping (reg'd Dec.qtr.1887 Spalding) and with his family in 1891 and 1901 when the EPT born Wakefield was with the Thickpenny's. As the tree shows a birthdate for Edward I don't know if this has come from a baptism or whether the birth certificate was obtained. Whichever, the Edward Thorpe born Deeping to Edward and Mary Ann (nee King) and the Edward Percy Thorpe of this thread born Wakefield are 2 different people.
Just don't want anyone coming upon this thread in the future to go down the same wrong road as the submitter of the tree on Ancestry.
In conclusion, Edward Percy Thorpe born Wakefield was registered as plain Percy Thorpe in Dec.qtr.1886 Wakefield, an illegitimate birth, and only purchasing this birth certificate will confirm the name of his mother to establish the right Thorpe line to follow. Definitely no connection to the Lincolnshire family.
Hope this all makes sense.
Annette
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Hi Nikki are u still on here, Nick Bullock
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Hi, I have connections with Esgate's of Tilney all Saints on both my maternal and paternal sides.
On my Paternal side my 4x great Uncle married Mary Ann Esgate 1823- 1880 my 5th cousin 5 x removed on my maternal side.
Andrea