RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: Jax49 on Tuesday 31 July 07 20:32 BST (UK)
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Hope someone can help.
On my grandparents marriage certificate it says my grandmothers father,CHARLES GEORGE O'SULLIVAN was a POLICE CONSTABLE. My grandparents married in England in 1929, Charles was already deceased by this time. Both grandparents were from County Galway. As yet I have no idea when he was born.
How do I access any records for Charles, any help would be appreciated.
Jax ???
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Did your grandparents get married in a R.C. church in england? If they did that church would have been incontact with the parish church she was fromin Ireland and they would hold all her records if she was rasied there? I know this because that is how i found out which part of Ireland my own father came from. when you find out let us know
Migky ;)
http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?browse=true&category=14&subcategory=81&offset=10&browseresults=true
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Galway
http://www.irish-roots.net/galway-west.asp
And if you have not yet been there , you will love it , might be worth the trip :)
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Hi Migky
That bit of information was great, I never thought of that!! Presumably I am best writing to the church, is that correct? They did marry in a catholic church ,my grandparents, but my mum seems to think she wasnt born into the catholic church but changed later. we think her mum may have been catholic and Charles, her father, may have been church of Ireland we arnt too sure.
We hope to go over to Galway next year, my mum went in the 1930/40s to Oughterard to visit her grandparents and her Ryan grandfather lived in Galway city.
What I also didnt make clear was I would like to know if I can acces Charles Police records, how do I go about getting them or is it not possible?
Thanks again for your valuable advice.
Jacqui.
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Hi yep write to the church most have a whole mess of papers going back 100's of years , and i will try and find more on the police thing for you . my family lived in the city to right in the middle lol thats why it called middle street lol
Migky ;)
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Hi again,
You may have seen an earlier post about the Mechanics institute, that is where my other Grt Grandad Ryan lived. He was the club steward there, at least in the 1920/30/40s, and that is on Middle Street, Galway City. I have written to them and hope they reply!! Our ancestors may have been neighbours :D
Jax
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HI JAX
I also had a g.grandfather who was a policeman in Galway back in 1861. You can trace his police record, but unfortunately these are held in Dublin. You may get some indication of the location in Galway from the Griffith Valuation tables which list all heads of families in 1855 and if you know the area then the parish records can be used. Parish records are also kept in Dublin for all areas.
Hope you have some success.
Brian
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Thanks Brian
My grandmother was born in Cornamona in 1908, by 1929 he was dead ( grandmothers marraige cert) so it must have been around that area.
thank you.
Jax
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You can trace his police record, but unfortunately these are held in Dublin. You may get some indication of the location in Galway from the Griffith Valuation tables which list all heads of families in 1855 and if you know the area then the parish records can be used.
Griffith's Valuation will probably not be much use as policemen used to move about and I think many, like bank staff, were posted outside their home area. Also, Griffith's is a bit too early.
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Hi Jax,
It's almost certain that if Charles was a police constable serving in Co. Galway he would have joined the police force in a completely different county, as it was the practice to post contables out of their own area. Mine was born and joined the force in Co. Wicklow and was posted to Galway.
Best of Luck
Brian
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Thanks for your reply brian.
Since I last posted I have found who I believe to be my G Grandfather on the Ancestry site ,where they list police officers in Ireland. I had viewed the 1911 census at my local LDS church and on it was his age and I could link it to the age of a Charles on ancestsry. If indeed it is him he joined in Galway and seemed to go everywhere. He married a Jane Adam from Londonderry, married in Enniskillen, had children in Cork, Kerry, Galway and Clare. He certainly travelled! He ended up in Cornamona retired and having a new career as a Postmaster and farmer. Wow! I am at present awaiting the film from the LDS relevant to my grandfathers police career, if indeed it is him.
Will update as and when.
Jacqui.
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Hi Jacqui,
I am pleased that you have managed to get much further with tracing your G. Grandfather. I didn't know that Ancestry has a site for police officers, which will be a big help for future research. I had to go to Dublin to the records office for details of my ancestor's police records. He joined in 1851.
Strange that he ended up in Cornamona. I spent a weeks holiday there about 10 years ago. It has a saw mill on the outskirts but little else in the way of employment ( except for tourism ).
Best of luck
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Ancestry gives the film and page only. I just typed in Charles O'sullivan and there he was. I then went to the local LDS FHC and ordered the film for £2.70. cheaper than a flight to Dublin!! If it isnt the correct one then its back to the drawing board.
What kind of information did you find by the way? I am not sure what to expect.
All the best
Jacqui.
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Hi , it should tell you where they lived what they worked as and who owned the house/land . who was in that house. If R.C. or C-of-I , if the could read and write.
Migky ;)
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Hi Jacqui,
The documents on Irish Police are in the form of a ledger. It gives the name of the constable, age on joining, former profession e.g. farmer. place of joining and county, the person who introduced the contable to the police force and other marks of distinction e.g. height etc. It also gives the place he trained and the County to which he was appointed. It also gives any misdemeaners and the reason for resigning, as well as any promotions.
Sadly it did not tell me where he lived prior to his joining the force, just the place he joined.
Brian
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Hi , it should tell you where they lived what they worked as and who owned the house/land . who was in that house. If R.C. or C-of-I , if the could read and write.
Think this refers to details on census record not what is in police records?
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Thanks Brian,
It would be fun it there was a misdemeanor, but I doubt it! I think Charles served for quite a long while and just retired. What I am hoping for is his whereabouts in 1901 seeing as none of his children were born conveniently around that time! They seemed to go from county to county so it hard to pinpoint a place.
Thanks again, I hope I get lucky
Good luck with your search,
Jacqui.
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Just to update. I have viewed the microfilm, and sure enough it was my G Grandad.
The text was very difficult to understand lots of numbers that make no sense to me at all. Charles O'Sullivan went through the ranks to become Head Constable. Interestingly in 1873 he was fined the sum of £2, a lot of money in 1873!
He served in Clare, Kerry and Limerrick.
On his county of origin it says Galway then underneath Mayo! In 1911 he was in Cornamona which is on the border of Mayo, so perhaps he was born in Mayo but lived in Galway. Perhaps he returned to his roots.
If anyone has knowledge of the meaning of all these numbers I would be glad to hear from you.
Jax
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Hi Jacqui,
If you can let me know the numbers you recorded from the microfiche then I will see if they have any correlation to those I recorded.
Brian
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Hi Brian
Sorry I havent sent the numbers on the ledger. I have since found out that some of the numbers link to his awards.
I found he had received a medal and a bar from the Royal Humane society for saving two peoples lives on different occasions. The RHS website is great for seeing awards won by people all over Great Britain. I then wrote to the local library for Ennis and was sent two wonderful accounts of his rescues as recorded in the local paper for Ennis at the time.
Maybe your ancestor won an award its worth taking a look!
Jacqui
Ps apologies if you have already checked.
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Hi Jacqui,
Thanks for your email. I will take your advice and see if there is any listing for Thomas Dowling.
Regards
Brian
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Only just registered on here, and I'm finding out stuff already!
This thread caught my eye as I recently discovered my grandmother's baptism record in Kilcummin, Oughterard and it lists her father's occupation as "Constable" in at the time (1893). The point about police constables being moved about could ring true in my case too as my granny was buried in Kildare in a family grave with no apparent connection to her parents (that we know of). This "ancestry site" mentioned in earlier posts....can anyone give me the full website address as I'm in a bit of a cul-de-sac on my great grandfather, what with no more than his occupation in 1893 (and his wifes name) to go on.
Cheers,
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Hi
Its Ancestry.co.uk. If you dont have a subscription I could look for you, if you can give me details. Ancestry just gives the name, age and place of birth if you have those I will take a peak. If you are lucky, and you find him, then the best thing to do is order the film from the nearest Latter Day Saints Centre, the index to the film is on Ancestry.
Good luck
Jacqui
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Hi
Its Ancestry.co.uk. If you dont have a subscription I could look for you, if you can give me details. Ancestry just gives the name, age and place of birth if you have those I will take a peak. If you are lucky, and you find him, then the best thing to do is order the film from the nearest Latter Day Saints Centre, the index to the film is on Ancestry.
Hi Sean
Welcome to Rootschat.
The London LDS centre has the film in so if you can provide a name/s I'll ve checking one or two people on it tomorrow and will look out for yours.
Glen
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Thanks for the offer Jacqui, you're very good. Only problem is I'm only at the stage of having his name. Place of birth & age are still great imponderables I'm afraid.
Cheers to you too Glen. I'll throw his name to you. If it comes to somethin', well great. If not, no harm done.
His name is Charles Lewis. I'm only guessing his base would've been in Kilcummin, Oughterard in 1893 (the year his daughter and my gran was born, and the place where she has been recorded as having been baptised)....
Good luck & thanks again to you both for the offer of help.
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Sean
Ancestry has a Charles Lewis enlisting at age 20 in 1871. H was born in Kildare and there is a reference to a marriage or some other comment.
Would an 1851 birth sound right if you have any other info? Anyway, it will only take a few minutes to scribble down some details.
Glen
PS A big thank you to Jacqui as well as I'd never really looked at the RIC lists and to find they are LDS films was a very welcome surprise.
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Sean
Ancestry has a Charles Lewis enlisting at age 20 in 1871. H was born in Kildare and there is a reference to a marriage or some other comment.
Would an 1851 birth sound right if you have any other info? Anyway, it will only take a few minutes to scribble down some details.
Glen
PS A big thank you to Jacqui as well as I'd never really looked at the RIC lists and to find they are LDS films was a very welcome surprise.
Glen, where have you been all my life? :D Only kidding, but you might be unfurling another branch on my tree here. It's at times like this that I wish I had more info :-\
An 1851 birth is plausable. That'd make him 42 at the time of the birth of my gran.
As I said earlier, my gran was buried in a grave in Kildare erected by what looks like a previous generation of Lewis' in a town called Mullacash. Interred in this grave is a Mary Lewis (d.1856 aged 39 yrs......who knows, maybe that's the mother of the Charles Lewis you've got?) The headstone was erected by a "William Lewis of Mullacash", although there are no details etched on the headstone of the death of this William Lewis. The only other info I have is that the wife of Charles Lewis (the constable) went by the name of Mary Carey.
Thanks again.
Sean.
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Hi Sean
Hope you do get some information let us know what you find. If you google "Royal Irish constabulary" there is a very interesting site and forum. the guy on the forum has been a great help to me in the past. At the moment I am trying to find my G G grandfathers records his name is Charles Clark unfortunately the Charles Clarks on Ancestry are too young >:(
Hope you find lots of info
Jacqui
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Glen, where have you been all my life? :D
Err...ummm...ah...how about hiding in the LDS Family History Centre? 8)
I've found his record and it's a good 'un even if the clerks all seemed to be in a competition to write the most with the smallest possible writing. ;D What I couldn't read is marked with a ?
It is record number 37852 (wonder if that's also his badge number?) and as the index said, he was a native of Kildare and was 20 when he joined. He was a tall lad at 6' 1 1/4" which was very tall for that time given the quality of food most people ate.
He was married and the record lists the date and which county the wife was from so we have:
Marriage 1- 3 Sept 1885 to a Kerry girl.
Marriage 2 - 15 Sept 1890 to someone from Clare so this would be your gran's mother
Marriage 3 - 27 Nov 1900 to someone from Galway WR (no idea what the WR means)
He was introduced to the Constabulary by Sub Inspector Power. There is text which straddles 2 columns but I think the reference MAyo SR refers to the Inspector and he was a laborer prior to joining on his appointment date of 7 June 871
As others have posted, he never actually served in his native Kildare but was posted to the following locations
Londonderry 13 Dec 1871
Reserve 18 April 1878
Tyrone 31 March 1880
Reserve 31 May 1880
Kerry 1 August 1883
Blake 10 Feb 1888
Galway WR 23 May 1891
Promotions
Promoted to AG1 August ??
Promoted to Sargeant 1 Jan 1887
Reduced to Constable 6 Dec 1890 (naughty boy!)
Rewards
Twenty something years 27 April 1887
Sub ?ec 29 June 1887
Punishments
Admd 19 Oct 1880
Fight (I think) 7 Sept 1881
Hn Rec 29 July 1889
And he took a pension on 1 January 1903 with a final comment seeming to read Comd in Wicklow
So there you go. Any questions are probably best posted to the Ireland - General board to get a wider audience. As for the marriage details, the LDs are setting up a new version of Familsearch here
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0
and the Irish BMD indexes should be online in the, hopefully, not too distant future.
Cheers
Glen
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:o Glen my man, you are a diamond. You must be my "beginners luck" on rootschat!
I'm astonished. Lots of info there to take in at once.....including 3 marriages (my aunt may have a fit when she hears that!). Talk about sailors having a girl in every port, eh? ;)
It's amazing to think that this man born in the east of the island was sent to serve north, south & west, at a time when transport links would've been a touch more basic than they are now. Guess it's another example of what Brian1 stated about the practice of posting members outside of their own area. Plus the fact he appears to have re-married after my gran was born could be another reason why the info we had on him was so scarce.
Thanks a million again. Hope you found as much info on the one or two people you were tracing.
That's what I call a result! :D
Sean.
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Hi Sean
Hope you do get some information let us know what you find. If you google "Royal Irish constabulary" there is a very interesting site and forum. the guy on the forum has been a great help to me in the past. At the moment I am trying to find my G G grandfathers records his name is Charles Clark unfortunately the Charles Clarks on Ancestry are too young >:(
Hope you find lots of info
Jacqui
Cheers for the lead Jacqui. As you can see, Glen has pulled a decent sized rabbit out of a hat with lots of info! There is a Clarke wing in my family, but it's all Kildare based, I'm afraid, and I haven't managed to make too much progress there myself.
I'm sure another piece of your jigsaw is just around the corner. The search continues for us all.....
Greetz,
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Sean,
I read the reply last night and thought I would just check this morning before work to see if you had read it. I am chuffed to bits for you,. Its a great feeling isnt it? My g grandfather got a couple of awards and my daughter found them on the Royal Humane Society website. He saved two people from drowning, a drunk and a runaway boy, both in the river Ennis. My G G was born in Galway and served in Kerry, Clare and Wicklow. Its funny to see where are all the kids were born on the census, they certainly got about a bit!
Charles clars daughter was born in Mayo so he could have come from anywhere considering the movement of these men.
anyway off to work for me, and good luck with the rest of your research.
Jacqui
ps if you can, take a look at some local papers of the time, my G g was always mentioned especially for arresting people making illegal booze....
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:o Glen my man, you are a diamond. You must be my "beginners luck" on rootschat!
Sean
Happy to help but if Jacqui hadn't mentioned the LDS films, I'd be nowhere so all the credit is due to her.
I'm astonished. Lots of info there to take in at once.....including 3 marriages (my aunt may have a fit when she hears that!). Talk about sailors having a girl in every port, eh? ;)
I wouldn't go rushing out shouting about it. I think you'll find he was probably widowed (at least once ;)) so until you get more information then hold back a bit.
Cheers
Glen
I
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SeanC3
I am also trying to trace the Lewis Family from Mullacash, Carnalway, Co. Kildare and I would be very interested to see what you found out. I have seen the tomestone you referred to above and know that Charlie Lewis and his brothers Pat Lewis, William Lewis and Larry Lewis were policeman.
I suspect you may already have found out a lot more information and would like to speak to you.
Regards,
Enda.
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I'm new to www.rootschat.com.
How do I make contact with a User 'SeanC3'. In 2008 he was on this site enquiring about an ancester of his William Lewis who I'm trying to find out about now. It seems he last logged into the site in June 2011.
Enda.
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I'm new to www.rootschat.com.
How do I make contact with a User 'SeanC3'. In 2008 he was on this site enquiring about an ancester of his William Lewis who I'm trying to find out about now. It seems he last logged into the site in June 2011.
Enda.
Dear, oh dear.....not since June 2011, eh? More's the shame :-\
Anyhow, that's me! ;)
Just dropped you a PM reply.
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Hi just joined Rootschat, by chance came onto the discussion on William & Charles Lewis. I'm Charles great grandson. Can someone tell me how I can contact Endastory or SeanC3 who have been joining this thread? Thanks
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New members have to have 3 postings before they can send a personal message. If you make two more postings -can be about about anything- then you can access other members by clicking on the PM buttton under their name.
annclare
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Just joined rootschat, not sure how to reply to one person. I live in Oughterard & have been researching my friends family, when I came across Charles Lewis, born circa 1852 in Co. Kildare, he married Helen(Ellen) Cleary
they had 4 children Michael John born ~1891,
Rose Anne born ~1893,
Charles Joseph born ~1896 &
Mary Ellen born ~1897.
Helen died 24 December 1898 aged about 30.
He married my friends great aunt, Mary Walsh (born in Oughterard 24 April 1862) in ~1904. However, in the 1911 census Charles is living in Fough East (Camp Street) Oughterard with his youngest daughter Mary Ellen & Mary Walsh Lewis is living her brothers in Canrawer West, Main St. (Oughterard, Galway). Maybe she was just staying with her brothers but ifs not far from where her brothers lived to where her husband lived!!!!!
Rose Anne married John Clarke on 18 June 1919 in Newbridge Co. Kildare.
Charles Joseph married Edna Moon on 9 Sept 1922 in St Mary's & St. Martins Dover
Mary Ellen married Jeremiah David on 26 June 1916 in Newbridge, Witnesses Michael Durnisan & Rose Lewis.
Hope this is useful to someone out there.
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Hope this is useful to someone out there.
This thread keeps coming back to life! Just dropped you a pm.
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Hello John, I found the information in the Galway west family history centre in Galway.
Regards.
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My great grandfather was an RIC officer, and I only had his name from his daughters wedding cert . There is a book which you can order from your local library called The Complete List of RIC Officers .. it gives all the names and service numbers , which can then be ordered from the LDS . This also led me to my great grandmother :)
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I've only just spotted this thread. I am a great great great grandson of Catherine Lewis of Mullacash who is a sister of the William Lewis who erected the headstone in Two Mile House, Kildare, and an aunt of Charles Lewis the Oughterard policeman. My Catherine married Peter Kennedy of Mullacash / Harristown Common Kildare and is buried about 10 meters from the Lewis grave. According to my records, this elder Charles had 6 or possibly 7 siblings and his mother was Mary Mooney. Charles' daughter Rose eventually inherited the Lewis land back in Kildare - I know her (Clarke) descendants and in fact they were my next door neighbours growing up. Delighted to swap info if you post me.
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The full postal address for Cornamona is via Claremorris which is in County Mayo. This could explain the reference to mayo for Charles. A Charles o Sullivan owned a property there beside Lowery's shop in the middle of the village
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i was lucky enough to visit the house a few years back. :)