RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: northern_rose on Saturday 11 August 07 18:39 BST (UK)
-
Can anyone tell me anything about a school in the hamlet of Oldfield, Dunham Massey? Or indeed where Oldfield is as multimap can't find it!
I have a friend's ancestors there on the 1851 census at HO 107/2162 pg 1.
-
Hi Northern rose
Have you seen this
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/chs/dunhammassey.html
ricky
-
Ricky
Thanks for the link - must really apologise as I found this after posting - the area was obviously Oldfield Brow until the 1920's.
Does anyone know anything about a school in the 1850's.
My two boys were "living in" away from their parents and younger siblings who at the time were living at a pub on the Deansgate in the centre of Manchester.
-
Hi Northern Rose
No need to apologize, carnt help with the school ;) ;)
ricky
-
Hi Northern Rose
I think I know what you are looking for.
There are some local history books about Altrincham that refer to Oldfield House the school you are looking for. However I've found the following site that gives quite a good summary of the history. The site is in fact a property developer's but I have absolutely no connection with them :)
What they have done is develop the school which replaced Oldfield House. You will see reference to it in the article.
http://www.holland-hall.co.uk/pdfs/simplygeomagazine/simply_geo_issue_3.pdf
To locate it go to www.old-maps.co.uk and key the coordinates 375600 38840
This should bring you on top of Oldfield Brow. Enlarge the map and you should see the text Oldfield House.
I think the blurb from the above gives the PostCode of Blakeswood. You could use it to find the replacement school on www.streetmap.co.uk and whee the old school was.
I hope alll this makes sense. However if it doesn't and you cannot find anything let me know .
Regards
Reiver
PS There is/was an Oldfield Hall. This is not what you are looking for :)
-
I'm amazed by the help from fellow rootschatters! This is great.
It is also interesting to read the school was for "for the instruction of 40
boys aged 8 – 11 years who lived in Altrincham, Dunham, Bowdon and Hale" as when my two Hague brothers were there in 1851 their parents (who were born in Oldham and North Manchester) were living in central Manchester!
Will now look at the maps.
Thanks again
-
Looking at the maps I can see that Oldfield House was on School Lane! ;D ;D
Thanks again
-
I'm deighted I could help.
I just may be able to find out a little more from a local historian. But I don't want to push it. Would you rather hold it at that point? I know for instance that there is a lot to be said about Thomas Walton, the salt master who endowed the school.
I'll leave it quite happily unless you ask for more :) :) :)
No answer required if you want me to hold off.
Regards
Reiver
-
Hi
There was also a private school opened around the 1820's by Henry Race. It seems to be known as Harefield House in at least one of the census years, the Race family governed the school until around the mid 1860's when it seems to vanish from the census.
The 1828 Pigots Directory of Cheshire shows Henry Race schoolmaster of Oldfield ( boarding school for young gentlemen).
The 1860 Whites directory shows the school at Harefield House run by Anne Race + Mary and Ellen Race.
All the census years seem to show the majority of boarders as being from the Manchester area.
Hope this helps
peterbennett
-
Peter
You are a star - Mr Race was the School master at the school (1851) I am concerned with! Do you know anymore about the school?
Reiver - thanks for your help and you have me intrigued but as it appears to be the wrong school I won't ask you to go to anymore trouble.
Thanks to you both
-
Hi
Sorry no I don't know anything about the school except the information gained from the census and directories.
Maybe Reiver's local connection can add some local knowledge.
regards
peterbennett
-
Peter's input has thrown up a puzzle :)
The school in question was at Oldfield House. As you know the master was Henry Race. He was 42 in 1851 and with him were his wife Mary, a couple of his brothers, a niece Ann Race aged 18 and of course the pupils. No name was given for the school on the 1851.
In 1861 it is given the name Oldfield School. Head was Mary Race (married) age 60 and Anne Race now 27 and four pupils.
Local Historians say that the school was Bowdon Grammar School (Oldfield being in the parish of Bowdon. ) The school, I'm told, was then split between between fee paying and not fee-paying. (Can'r remember which waty round :D ) One group went to the building now called Blakeswood following recent development - referred to in an earlier post. The others went to a new Bowdon Grammar School much nearer the Parish Church. Apparently this lost pupils to a local authority grammar school opened 'down the road'. It eventually closed but then the buildings were used to house Altrincham Preparatory School for many years.
I cannot yet for the life of me find where Harefield House was :( But it is still on the agenda.
Kind regards
Reiver
-
Harefield House sited on Woodville Road
circa 1850 was at some time destroyed.
taken from Mansions and Men of Dunham Massey by Frank Bamford
Northern rose I have a photograph of Oldfield House school which was built in 1759 with money left by Thomas Walton a salt master of Dunham Woodhouses (where incidentally I was born) for the instruction of 40 boys aged eight to eleven years who lived in Altrincham, Dunham Bowdon and Hale.
taken from Altrincham a pictorial history by Hilda Bayliss.
If you would like to see the photo please pm me
Kind regards
Su
-
Su
Thanks for your kind offer of the photo - my understnding is that the school you refer to is the one "my boys" were at in 1851 as Mr Race was the school teachers and they were from Manchester rather than the local area.
I'd love a picture and will PM my email address.
Wanted again to say thanks to you all on board.
-
Hi Reiver/Northern Rose
seems to be known as Harefield House in at least one of the census years
The above should have read Directory years, not census, you are correct in that the Race family are at Oldfield School in the 1861 census.
I have attached a section of the 1860 Whites Directory that shows the Harefied House entry, looking at it again I feel it could apply to either Ann Race (above) or Margaret Warburton (below) I have looked in the 1861 census but cannot find a Margaret Warburton school mistress in the area.
Sorry for the confusion.
peterbennett
-
Hello Peter
Most intriguing :)
A couple of questions.
Outside of the the section on the left there are some small numbers/
Inside the section there are also numbers
What is the significance of these numbers? I notice in the right hand column each entry is numbered
Regards
Reiver
-
Hi Reiver
The directory covers Dunham Massey NO NUMBER, Oldfield (1) Sinderland (2) and Woodhouses (3)
regards
peterbennett
-
Thanks for the answer Peter.
Yesterday I was told of a book called "Schools in Victorian Bowdon" by Myra Hendrick. They had a copy in Altrincham Library which I had a quick scan through looking for Harefield. Only a quick scan but couldn't spot the word. I'm told there were an awful lot of schools created in the late 19th centiry in Altrincham - largely to cater for the Manchester industrialists etc who chose to live in the area.
Su pointed out that Harefield House was referred to in 'Mansions and men of Dunham Massey" by Frank Bamford. I did find Marianne Ray (Mary Ray(?) in the Directory extract from Peter?) a Teacher at that address in 1861. She was 23. There were no pupils living there (But it may well have been a day school) However Harefield was 'in the middle of Altrincham' and some distance from the school at Oldfield House in 1861 with Ann Race as a teacher.(See earlier post). It appears to have been called Seamons Moss School almost since it was founded - even if it was for a long time in a building called Oldfield House.
There is still a puzzle related to the James Smith at Seamons Moss Endowed School (See directory extract from Peter Bennet) which I would like to resolve. It may not be worth reporting back here though :) :)
Do you have all the information you want Northern Rose?
Regards
Reiver
-
Hi Reiver, Peter and Heather
In said book by Frank Bamford there is only a snippet of information about Harefield House. I quote
.... A narrow lane still runs from the rear of the site down to Woodville Road. This appears to be one of the legacies of Sigismund Schloss, who bought more land during the 1860s so that his garden became quite extensive. There was another man called Reuben Levi, a manufacturing clothier, who in 1861 lived with his wife, four children and three servants just round the corner from Beechthorpe in Bowdon Road at a house called Beech Bank, who was also somewhat acquisitive as far as land was concerend. Between then, Schloss and Levi owned most of the land behind the first three houses on St. Margaret's Road right down to Woodville Road. In an 1878 directory it is recorded that one Daniel Schloss, possibly a son of Sigismund, lived at Harefield Housewhich seems actually to have been sited on Woodville Road and may well have been built earlier, even by 1850. In the 1881 Census he is described as a South American merchant with four children and five servants .....
I have a map with Harefield House on it. If you would like to see a copy Reiver please PM me with your email address.
Seamon's Moss School was built in 1867 founded by Thomas Walton gent.
Kind regards
Su
-
Hi
Thomas Walton who died 06/02/1757 and is referred to as the salt master was a distant relative of mine I'd be grateful if anyone has any information on him.
Thanks
Phil
-
Hi Phil
I have no family connection with Thomas Walton but if you want to know a little bit more about him I may be able to help. Are you familiar with the locality round about Dunham at all?
Reiver
-
Hi Reiver
I have visited Warburton old church a couple of times trying to locate the grave of my Gt Grandmother Mary All Walton and am aware of the Dunham Massey Estate.
Regards
Phil
-
I do know that Thomas Walton lived at what is now Manor House Farm in (Dunham) Woodhouses.
This is in the Parish of Bowdon. You may find family events in that parish. May I suggest you look at the website for Bowdon Church www.bowdonchurch.org Go to Enter Full Website, click on Our Church. At the bottom is a section Archives and Memorials which may prove of interest.
Reiver
-
Hi Reiver
Thanks for the link to St Mary's, Bowdon unfortunately I can only see the memorial to Roger Grey. I have tried using different browsers but cannot see anything else. If I am missing something I'd be grateful if you could send me the link.
Thanks
Phil
-
Reiver and Phil - I would be interested to know if you have any Collins family from Dunham in your familytree - my direct ancestors were
Abraham Collins 1769
Abraham Collins 1796 - he married Martha Haslam
- Martha Collins b 1824
I have many more Collins in my tree - but the above are my direct ancestors ...
just a shot in the dark - you never know ....same village so any connections ?? :)
I have visited there graves in the little old St Werburghs church about 8 years ago ....a very small quaint church .
-
Hi Garstonite
I am not aware of any Collins members in my family tree.
Sorry
Phil
-
Hi Reiver
I spoken to Derek at St Mary's and other than confirm date of Thomas's funeral he has no other information. He said there was no memorial for him either within or outside the church. His will states his wife was called Mary and a pre deceased daughter called Mary (married Pickering?) and brother George. I can't find any birth or marriage records for him in the area. Did he originate from another county? Was he self made or inherited his wealth? I am intrigued.
Phil
-
Hi Phil
I've managed to locate information on the web about Thomas Walton's family - with a lot of detail :) You may well have found it yourself aah.dev.b60apps.co.uk These are Altrincham History Society Journals. Move to the one dated Sep 1998. No 16 The article is entitled The Walton Family of Bowdon and Dunham Massey. The author was Jill Groves who has done a lot of detailed research on many Altrincham, Dunham etc people. I found.the site via Google "Thomas Walton" "Salt Master"
Hope it helps
Reiver
-
Hi Garstonite
No contacts with your Collins I'm afraid. Have you found the family on the Tithe Maps?
Reiver
-
Hi Reiver
Many thanks for the information, what a fasinating story of rags to riches.
Regards
Phil
-
I'm looking at Mark Dawson who was a mayor of Bradford. In 1881 census his address was Oldfield, Dunham Massey. At the time of death, his address is given as Harefield, 1884.
I'm guessing the two names might refer to the same house?
He is buried with his two wives in Lightcliffe, Halifax. Inscribed "of Dunham Massey"
-
Hi Garstonite
On 26 Feb 2016 you asked if there were any Waltons who married Collins. My paternal grandfather was Allen Walton (1868-1933); he married Florence Amy Collins (1878-1959). Both were from Warburton, as was your ancestor Abraham Collins b. 1796, the one who married Martha Haslam.
We have several Abraham Collins in our tree, but not the 1796 nor the 1769 one. Pity. But they could have been related.
Cheers
Peter