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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Leicestershire => England => Completed Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jarv on Wednesday 15 December 04 16:25 GMT (UK)
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Hello, I am trying to trace our family tree for my Granddad who at 85 probably knows all the people I have found by myself. I need help going back a bit further.
From the 1901 census I found the household to be residing at "East End, The Hall" in Long Clawson. The head of the household was William(59), his wife Mary(51) and children Thurman(26) both John(12) all single and living at home with Williams brother Beaumont(56) and wife Catherine Butterfield(53). There was another son William who was born in 1872 and 9 during the 1881 census but I assume he died before the 1901 census as he's not there.
Anyway, I am trying to find William's father and is possible grandfather but have not been able to delve any further back. He was born in Long Clawson around 1841/42 so may have missed the census of 1841. Any info from earlier than 1881 may show William's father and possibly further back?
I don't mind doing the work myself I just don't know where best to look and I have been living in Boston, USA since Feb which doesn't help!
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Hi Jarv,
There is a William Coleman (30) and his wife Mary (22) , plus a sister, Kate Coleman aged 16, in the 1871 census. They are living in the civil parish of "Clawson".
They had 4 servants and 7 visitors present on the day of the census:
Mary Bissill 34 Yorkshire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
Thomas Bissill 30 Leicestershire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
Joseph Burnham 12 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
Kate Coleman 16 Leicestershire, England Sister Clawson Leicestershire
Mary Coleman 22 Leicestershire, England Wife Clawson Leicestershire
William Coleman 30 Leicestershire, England Head Clawson Leicestershire
Sarah Edgsom 26 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
Sarah Hill 17 Leicestershire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
Charles Radcliffe 31 Yorkshire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
Smith Radcliffe 28 Yorkshire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
Jane Smith 16 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
Anne Stokes 22 Leicestershire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
George Stokes 40 Nottinghamshire, England Visitor Clawson Leicestershire
Matthew Winters 17 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
I hope they had a big house! :-)
Alison
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Also in "Clawson", separate household, in the 1871 census (it's a pretty small place and the dairy there makes excellent white stilton cheese... which magically turns into blue stilton if you leave it out of the fridge!):
Barbara Coleman 32 Leicestershire, England Head Clawson Leicestershire
Frank T Coleman 7 Bedfordshire, England Son Clawson Leicestershire
Rose Emily Coleman 5 Nottinghamshire, England Daughter Clawson Leicestershire
Susannah Hand 17 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
Tom Tinsley 16 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
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And a third family, this time in Hose, which is about a mile down the road from Long Clawson--including an older William:
Hanh Chamber 54 Leicestershire, England Servant Hose Leicestershire
Thos B Coleman 24 Leicestershire, England Head Hose Leicestershire
William Coleman 63 Leicestershire, England Visitor Hose Leicestershire
Saml Harris 18 Leicestershire, England Servant Hose Leicestershire
Mary Mayon 35 Leicestershire, England Visitor Hose Leicestershire
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... and something else again :-D this time from the Leicester and Rutland History, Gazetteer and Directory of 1863.
"The Duke of Rutland is lord of the manor, but a great part of the soil belongs to ... .... William and J. T. Coleman, ...."
Then listed under Farmers are William Coleman and John T. Coleman.
You might find this reference or others through the website that's listed on this site under "Leicestershire Directories", there are several directories that you can search online.
:-)
Alison
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Greeting's.....
1851. INDEX ONLY Census...
Vol. 25.
430. . . .Long Clawson.
William Coleman. 42.
Ann. Wife. 34.
Thurman. Son.12.
William. Son. 9.
431. . . Long Clawson.
Edward Coleman.Son. 7.
Mary. Dau. 5.
Beaumont. Son. 3.
Ann. 2.
******************
1841. Scanned Images of Census.
HO107 / 587 /12 /Page 23.& 23a.
East End Long Clawson ( Early Village name=Claxton )
William Coleman.30. Farmer Not born within the County.
Ann. Wife. 25. Born within the County.
John Coleman. Son. 2. (page 23a. )
Hannah Chamberlain. 25. female servant..
Catherine Back. 15. female servant.
Michael Fisher. 25. Ag lab.
John Miller. 15. Ag. Lab.
James Clayton. 14. Ag. lab.
All but William Born with in the County of
Leicestershire.
Hope this is of help to you....
MIKE.
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Scan No. One.
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Scan Two Page 23a.
Interesting see the name of the next door Farmer
John Thurman. 80. Farmer. .....
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Thank you both very much! I have seen wedding records on the Long Clawson village site and putting numbers together it seems that Anne Stokes is married to George and the daughter of William.
The name John and Thurman seem pretty common in my family (not Thurman so much anymore!) I wonder if the 80 year old farmer is a relation? Hope so as he goes back to 1761!
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Greeting's Again.....
See there's a " Betsy Stokes" as a servant with the 80 yr old Farmer (Thurman )
So you maybe on the right track?
I've had a look on the 1861. Census but can't find any Coleman's in the Long Clawson Area.
There was a William Coleman.23. as a lodger in the City of Leicester ( 14, Britannia St.) Wood Sawyer. Born Walton Leicestershire.
If Walton is Walton -on-the-Wolds then it's only 16.5 miles apart from Long Clawson.....
As the occupation of Father was a Farmer then it's possible it is him ? Travelled about with farm work ?
MIKE.
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He may be a couple of years too old but then you can never tell. My granddad says that his father John and grandfather William owned a fair bit of land and I've seen them mentioned as executors of various wills so they may have got around? It is odd that they are in the 1841, 51 and 71 census but not the 1861?
There is a Long Clawson site which contains a lot of old marriage records and I'm surprised to have only found two of the Coleman daughters weddings recorded. I was hoping to find wedding records to see maiden names, etc.
Thank you again
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Hi Jarv
Your family on the 1861 census
RG9/2302 folio 59 page 16 Clawson (East)
William Coleman head mar 52 farmr of 345 ac emp 12men and 3 boys b. Grendon Warwickshire
Ann wife mar 44 b. Hose Leics
John J son unmar 22 b. Clawson
William son unmar 19 b. Clawson
Edward son unmar 17 b. Clawson
Thomas B son 13 b. Clawson
Ann dau 11 b. Clawson
Sarah K or R dau 6 b. Clawson
Thomas E Harris visitor unmar 19 b. Quorndon
There was also 4 servants in the household.
All the best
Linda
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Thank you, I have found out bits but now I'm stuck! I have found a will extract mentioning William Coleman in 1845 who I belive to be my great, great, great, great grandfather. It is from here http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/doclist.asp?nb=0&nbKey=5&com=1&keyword=coleman&properties=0601
and as follows:
"FILE - Copy of Will - ref. DE322/22/3 - date: Dated 13th July 1845; Proved 15th March 1849
[from Scope and Content] 1) All messuages, lands etc. in Hurloy in Parish of Kingsbury (Warw) to William Cooper (bailiff to late Wm. P. Inge esq of Thorpe, Co. Staffs) for his life, & after that to William Coleman (2nd son of William Coleman of Long Claws
[from Scope and Content] 5) All his real estate in Long Clawson, & all his personal estate to William Coleman (son of Edward Coleman of Long Clawson) but charged with payment of debts & legacies the annuity;
[from Scope and Content] 6) William Coleman appointed sole Executor;"
This is from 1845, in 1841 and 1851 there was only one William Coleman in Long Clawson but it states 2nd son of William and also "son of Edward". I initially thought that William referenced as 2nd son of William was my great, great, great grandfather but he was born in 1842 so a bit young to be mentioned in wills maybe? Especially when his Dad was around?
I need to know who the William Coleman and Edward Coleman were? Please help!
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:) :) :)
Sarah Edgsom 26 Leicestershire, England Servant Clawson Leicestershire
Just noticed on the 1871 Census, extract above, in the house of your ancestor, there was Sarah Edgson, one of mine.
You can see the EDGSONS on my website
www.annieg.fsnet.co.uk
:) :)
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:) :)
Hi again Jarv,
Here are two images of Long Clawson you might like
Village Map
Church of St Remigius
:) :)
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Thank you - you've traced your family a long way back, I'm very jealous!
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I am playing catch up with this thread and there are some points posted here by different contributors that I would like to comment on:
" THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE. SOMEWHERE" earlier in this thread, mentions the 1845 Will of Farmer "Gentleman" John Thurman died 1849 age 95 years. He was a relative of mine albeit I am not a direct decedent, indeed his obituary seen in a couple of newspapers described him as a "lifelong bachelor."
John Thurman owned land and buildings in different parts of Leicestershire and Wawickshire.
He left all his land and buildings to different members of the Coleman family, including the farmhouse now a hotel; Elms Farm Hotel and you can stay in the Thurman room there.
John Thurman lived here at time of 1841 Census and when he made his will in 1845 leaving Elms Farm to William Coleman another local farmer. He also owned land and buildings in Kingsbury, Warwickshire leaving this to William Cooper and another William Coleman. There was more land at Ratcliffe Culey (Leics) and at Grendon, Warwickshire left to Godson, John Thurwan Coleman born 1838 age 11 in 1849, who was to “Take the name Thurman”.
Now the farmhouse is known as Elms Farm Hotel 52 East End Long Clawson Leicestershire LE14 4NG
John Thurman was on Register of Voters in 1846 for the parish or Township of Hickling “Place of Abode House and Land Place of Abode Stonesby, Leicestershire.
The Coleman's inherited all land and buildings and a few Thurman's received money after John's death in 1849, including the children of my great, great, great grandfather Richard Thurman (born Appleby Magna) but had been working and living at Merrivale Hall (Nr Atherstone, Wawickshire) for the Dugdale family.
Stonesby is about 9 miles from Long Clawson and the Stonesby freehold house and land is not covered by his 1845 Will.
I am interested to know if there was an earlier generation marriage between Coleman - Thurman family given that John Thurman was a bachelor?
I found this which I cannot verrify with any marriage records?
Extract from “VILLAGE LIFE IN THE VALE OF BELVOIR. Social and Economic Change; 1851 – 1881.” By P. Anne Bosworth mentions that “William Coleman, father and son owned a substantial farm; their Leicestershire holding in 1874 was recorded as 320 acres. John Wilson records that their property was the result of the amalgamation by marriage of the earlier Thurman and Coleman estates
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Farmer & Gent John Thurman. The 1841 Census gives his age as 80 - 84, whereas his headstone at St Remigius Churchyard Long Clawson, Melton Borough, Leicestershire, gives his age at death in 1849 as 95 years.
Finding age discrepancies in parish and census records checked throughout an ancestors lifetime seems normal. I believe this John Thurman was born in Polesworth, Warwickshire in 1755 so his real age at death was likely about 94 years. BTW one obituary I found gave his age as 96 years!
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY HE LEFT ALL HIS LAND AND PROPERTY TO MEMBERS OF THE COLEMAN FAMILY AND ONLY A BIT OF MONEY TO SOME THURMAN'S (CHILDREN OF DECEASED NEPHEWS & NIECES AND GREAT NIECES & NEPHEWS). i Cannot find any records of marriage between Thurman's and Coleman's in earlier generations?