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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: GalaxyJane on Saturday 25 August 07 13:01 BST (UK)
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Hi all, this is my first foray over the border, so I am new to Scottish research.
I'm looking for any information or advice on the Scott family who lived at Blinkbonny near what I think must have been Castleton at the time, as Newcastleton seems to have been built later on.
The dates I am interested in are round about 1750. ( I see church records start a little late in the area...)
John Scott bought an estate near Bewcastle in Cumberland circa 1752
Any thoughts gratefully received
Jane
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Hi Am very interested in your John Scott having bought property near Bewcastle around 1750.
We have an Isabella Scott born about 1752/3 (we don't know who her parents were, ) However we do know that in 1782 she married a a Gideon Miller in Bewcastle and they lived at a property called Steppings in Bewcastle until Gideon died in 1822 when Isabella moved to an adjoining property called Greenholme.
She named her first son John so we would be very interested to follow up on your query. Nearly all their children moved to Newcastleton when they married so we know that there was a close association there.
Look forward to hearing from you soon
Ngaio
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Galaxy jane,
What info have you on the scotts or John Scott ie dob where? married? parents and children.
I have opr for Scotts in Rox but more details are needed for searching!!
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Our John Miller was first son of Gideon Miller and Isabella Scott born at Steppings Bewcastle 1788. He took over farming at Steppings when his father died in 1822 and farmed until about 1852 when he and family left stepppings. He is recorded as dying at Jarrow on the east coast in 1894. We don't know who our Isabella Scott's father was but word of mouth says that she came from a younger branch of the Dukes of Buccleuch. We cannot find any evidence of this but suspect she came from a younger branch of the Earls of Buccleuch, probably from an illegitimate child. Have you any information of the Newcastleton family of Scotts? We suspect that Isabella was born either in Bewcastle or Castleton but, again, cannot find any evidence of this.
Where is Blink bonny, in Castleton?
Looking forward from hearing from you
Ngaio
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Just a quick acknowlegement of your posts, ngaio and alan.
I haven't worked on my Scotts for quite a while so I need to dig out my files which may take a day or two as I am up to my eyes in real life at the moment! Please bear with me
I am relying on information given to me by a researcher who knows the border area when I say Blinkbonny is a district or farm or some such on the outskirts of what was Castleton before Newcastleton was built. I think it is still visible on maps etc but there doesn't seem to be any dwelling there now: my Scotts reused the name for a cottage near a farm named Saughtrees in Bewcastle
Thanks again for your interest and I will get back to you as soon as I can. I am really excited to have heard from you both
All the very best
Jane
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Have been looking through my records and discovered that John Scott bought Redgatehead and Saughtrees properties, next door to one another, in 1752. John Scott died in October 1799. His son Richard died in 1800 and Richard's son, John died in June 1840. I obtained this information years ago from Michael Jackson who has researched the properties in the Bewcastle area. Do you know this John Scott's wife's name?
I am wondering if our Isabella Scott was his daughter. We know that she was born about 1752. Word of mouth has it that Isabella was Scottish and her husband, Gideon Miller, was English.
Word of mouth also has it that she came from a younger branch of the Dukes of Buccleuch, but think this is more likely to be from the Earls of Buccleuch, possibly through an illegitimate child. Do your Scotts in Castleton have any similar "word of mouth" stories like this? Isabella named her first son John. Her first daughter was named Margaret. As Isabella was Gideon Miller's second wife and he already had four children to his first wife, we presume that his family names had been used to name his first children.
Ngaio
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Hi again ngaio,
Thanks for some more wonderful information. I do have notes about this line from John Scott but have not had the time to dig it out of the bottom of the FH cupboard. Do please bear with me, and I will get back to you asap. Apologies for keeping you waiting
Janexxx
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Hi Jane, it's me again seeing if I can send message through this website as our email won't receive any mail at present.
Anyway further to my previous message I have discovered where Blinkbonny is. It is on the western edge of the Newcastleton Forest, within a half mile of the English border, 2 miles southeast of the village of Newcastleton.
I have also discovered from the 1851 census that living at Sautrees (the property bought near Bewcastle on the English side of the border by John Scott in 1752) was William Scott who was recorded as farmer aged 34 which means he was born about 1817, so was probably Richard Scott's son. Also in this Sautrees census is his wife, Jane aged 36 who was born in Bewcastle and their son Archibald aged 5 born in Bewcastle. William Scott is recorded in this census as being born in Scotland.
The Saughtrees property on the English side of the border appears to be close to the Scottish border but more to the north west. Looking at a map it is northwest of Bewcastle.
Look forward to hearing from you when you have time
Ngaio
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Thanks, ngaio, once again. this is great information, again. I have dug out my notes, now all I need to do is make sense of them; as you see from my initial post it was August 2007 when I last looked at this branch.
Meanwhile, are you aware of the Dodgson Manuscript? Googling will find it for you. If you haven't seen it ,this is a 19th century genealogical text, and many Scotts and Grahams come into it.
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Thank you Jane, I found the Dodgson Manuscript and was very excited to see that your (possibly our) John Scott was married to a Margaret Nicol. Our Isabella Scott's first daughter was called Margaret and first son called John. Manuscript also said that they had other children, apart from eldest son Richard. I wonder if that means that John's father was called Richard?
My 95 year old father, who started all our family research years ago, but is now blind and unable to do so, is very excited so hope you can make sense of your notes soon.
Incidentally I sent you some more info yesterday, not by email as our machine wasn't working, but directly through the rootschat.com website. Did you receive it?
Ngaio
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Reading through the Dodgson Manuscript more thoroughly, see that John Scott married Margaret Nichol in 1772 which sort of puts a spanner in the works as far as my theory goes. Could he have been married prior to this maybe while he was in Scotland? and had daughters only? as Richard is recorded as being the first son. He would have been about 55 yrs old when he married Margaret so it is quite likely that he had been married previously. In the marriage records it would be interesting to know if John is recorded as widow.
Ah well I'll just keep hoping something turns up
Ngaio
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From the OPRs for Rox. Only 1 John Marr in Castleton 3-12-1841 to Isabella Moore.
2 Isabels born Castleton 31-12-1749 to Charles Scott-no mother shown and one born 10-9-1808 to david scott and jean scott.
No trace of marr to Gideon Miller in Rox or Selkirk.
There is John Scott born 6-1-1841 castleton to John Scott and Margaret Nichol and there is a William born 18-8-1817 Castleton to a Walter Scott and Jean Nichol
Hope this helps the confusion
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Presume the last message was not from Jane - thank you whoever it is.
Would it be possible to look up any possible death notices for Isabella Moore who married John Scott on 3.12.1841 in Castleton? We wonder if this could have been the first wife of the John Scott who moved across into Cumberland in 1752.
It is also interesting that you have found the birth of a John Scott to parents John Scott and Margaret Nicoll 6/1/1841 in Castleton. Our records show that John Scott married a Margaret Nichol on 1 Jan 1772 in Bewcastle, Cumberland and I am presuming that this was his second wife. If you could find out any details of the Margaret Nicoll from Castleton, it may solve one piece of the mystery or create another!
Many thanks
Ngaio
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Hello again, all,
I think my information about Blinkbonny, Saughtrees etc came from Michael Jackson too. I was introduced to a very helpful man at Carlisle RO and he kindly and anonymously posted off what he had to me.
Firstly I have to point out that my Scott connection is a bit convoluted. It comes through my GG grandmother, Jane Angus, nee Graham, who appears in the Kirklinton baptisms thus
1804 Feb 23rd
Jane daughter of John Graham of Newbiggen, householder, and of Ann his wife (late Scott).
So the Scotts enter into my tree at GGG grandparent level, via two ‘married ins’’
Consequently I only received Angus word of mouth and have no Scott family stories as I had no idea they existed in my tree until a few years ago:. A shame I can’t help you in this respect.,
Here is the marriage of John Graham and Ann Scott, from the same parish records
1796 marriages:
John Graham of Newbiggen in this Parish Batchelor and Ann Scott of Saughtrees in the Parish of Bewcastle, singlewoman were married in this church by Licence this fifth day of July 1796
By me T Pattinson, Rector
This marriage was solemnised between us, John Graham, Ann Scott
in the presence of us, William Graham, William Scott, Richard Scott, Mary Dodgson, M Pattinson, Andrew Graham, Mary Routledge, Robert Noble. (Or was that Nichol??)
Richard and William Scott are Anne’s brothers, Mary Dodgson was nee Wilson (married Thomas 5th july 1991 at Bewcastle according to the IGI found with clues from the Dodgson MS) and the sister of Ann Scott nee Wilson, wife of Richard
Ann Scott’s baptism from the Bewcastle PRs
1777
Feb 16th Anne daughter of Jno Scott of Saughtrees and Margaret his wife
From Bewcastle parish records Carlisle RO reel 1141—personal transcription
P 31
Here is the marriage of her parents, John Scott and Margaret Nichol.
1772
John Scott of this parish, bachelor and Margaret Nichol of the same, singlewoman were married in this church by banns this 1st day of January in the year 1772 by me ? Holme, curate
This marriage was solemnised between us John Scott Marg.X Nichol her mark in the presence of John Routlege, John Routledge
As you see the records say John was a bachelor, so this may not have been a second marriage.
Children were
From IGI
1772 baptisms
31 May. Richard parents John Scot, Margt. Batch no CO36772
From Bewcastle baptisms reel 1141, personal transcription
1773 ( IGI has this date down as 1773 and mother’s name as Mary)
Decr 29th Jennet dau of John Scott of Saughtrees statesman and ?? -not clear
1775…
Aug 14th Wm son of Jno Scott of Saughtrees, statesman and Margaret, his wife
1777
Feb 16th Anne daughter of Jno Scott of Saughtrees and Margaret his wife
John Scott died in 1799 aged 82, as you said. There is also a Richard Scott of Blinkbony (cottage) who died in Jan 1802 aged 82 according to Bewcastle MIs. From his will it would appear he is the brother of John Scott.
I hope this information is of use.
All the best :) :) :)
Jane
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Thank you Jane for taking time to reply at this very busy time of year.
You have answered one question - namely that John Scott had not been married before he married Margaret.
However, my very great help, Michael Jackson, tells me that there were two John Scotts who died at Saughtrees. First, John Scott aged 87 died in 1782 which means he was born in about 1695. Could this John have been your John Scott's father?????? Can anyone help here?
Happy Christmas everyone
Ngaio :D :D
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Hi again,
I can confirm that other John Scott from my trawl through the Bewcastle PRs last summer. I can't give you the details though as I am now away from home. :) :)
Looking forward to reading any other replies to this thread!
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When you do return home, would you mind looking up and seeing if you have anything on the other John Scott?
Meantime happy christmas to all who read this.
Ngaio
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With pleasure. but it will be a few weeks. As far as I remember all I have on this second John Scott is his age at death.
Season's greatings from me too
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Galaxy Jane and Ngaio if you are still tuning in....John Scott of Saughtrees is my Ancestor..see my posts last two days...