RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Friday 31 August 07 23:15 BST (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
Have just begun to read Oliver Sach's fascinating biography: "Uncle Tungsten", pub.by Picador in 2001, and was interested to read on page 8 that he writes:..."as the youngest of almost the youngest (I was the last of four, and my mother the sixteenth of eighteen), I was born almost 100 years after my maternal grandfather and never knew him."
So have Rootschatters come across a huge gap between birth of grandparent and subsequent birth of a grandchild - either in their own family or in their research of other families...?
Very best wishes,
keith
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My gg grandfather Johann Heinrich Sommerlad was born in 1829 and as I descend from his 11th child Philip born 1883, and his 5th child my grandmother Phyllis June Sommerlad was born in 1923 it is almost 100 years from grandparent to grandchild ;D
Well 94yrs anyway ;)
Jenny
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Amazing, Jenny!
I think the gap in Mr Sachs' family's case was 96 years - 1837 until 1933...
keith
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Well that side of my family were...um...late starters, and relatively long living too, but alas Johann Heinrich died in 1912 and his wife Louisa Wilhelmina in 1921 so neither grandparent saw my grandmother :'(
Jenny
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Jenny,
Thinking this over in bed this morning, I suddenly realised that there's an excellent example in my own family! My gt-gt-gt-gt-gt-grandfather James GURNER was born in 1695, starting a family in 1723, with my 4-times-gt-grandfather Thomas GURNER being the 5th child born in 1738. For whatever reason, he didn't marry until he was 50 years old, and my 3-times-gt-grandfather Henry Pakeman GURNER was born in 1796, the fourth son, and a gap of 101 years to his grandfather's birth.
In fact, Henry Pakeman had two younger sisters, and the remarkable thing I noticed about the youngest, Mary GURNER, b. 1802, is that she, her father and her grandfather were each born in separate centuries, i.e 1802, 1738 and 1695.
Now that might take some beating! All three lie in the same churchyard in Ickleton, Cambs, and isn't it funny how you can suddenly see a new slant on your own family history that you hadn't noticed before...?
keith
N.B. This Mary GURNER kept a village shop in Ickleton for many years in the 19thC - I wonder now whether she bored her customers with the story of how she'd been born in the 19thC, her dad in the 18thC and her granddad in the 17thC...
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My great grandfather was born in 1836. His youngest grandchild was born in 1935.
No, they did not know each other! :)
Nell
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Not quite 100 years, but my mum :) b 1919 and her youngest grandchild b 2000 = 81 years.
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How about this, my Jersey family
Philippe born 1729
Philippe Clement born 1764
His youngest child born 1837 when he was 79!!!
His youngest grand child(that I know of) born 1875 so that is 111 years.
There is no mistake in Philippe Clements DOB/age. This has been checked by lots of people.
Beat that
Sylviaann
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An interesting post Keith.
Not quite a hundred years in my family either, but...
My paternal Grandfather, William James Wilson was born in 1860, & his youngest grandchild, my first cousin Annette, was born in 1958. (I make that 98 years:-)
Sadly he died in 1937, when his first grandchild was a baby, and his wife in 1934, and so they never knew any of their grandchildren:-(
Romilly.
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Hi again, Silviaan,
Must be nice to still be able to raise a twinkle in the eye at 78/79 years of age. I wonder if this particular record will take the gold medal...?
keith
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Forgot to mention both Nan and grandson still alive!
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Hi Everyone,
I missed this when it was first posted. Can't resist adding my gt. gt. grandfather.
Sorry, Silviaann, but my gt. gt. grandfather beats your's
by 14 years. ;D.
James Dickers d.o.b. 23 May 1796
Birth of last grandchild (that I know of), Leslie J. Dickers was registered in the Mar. Quarter 1922, over 125 years later!
James' first child was born in 1820 and his last child was born in 1877. A 57 year age gap between half siblings!
Children of his second marriage were born when he was
78 and 81.
Cheers,
Carmela
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Hi All,
My grandmother was born in 1862, my mother her youngest child in 1907 and myself also youngest child in 1947. My grandmother was difficult to find as she had married twice to men younger than her and adjusted her age accordingly <grin>
Ros
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Interesting time-lines.
On the same subject but not really, I wonder what is the oldest maternal age for a birth that anyone has found.
The 79 & 81 for the Paternal age is good going, but I would like to see if the older women were keeping the birthing schedule going.
Sue
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Sue,
I'd imagine anybody would be struggling to discover a gap of 80 years, let alone 90 through the maternal lines, grandmother to grandchild through a daughter, though I'll now have a look through my tree and see what I can come up with!
keith
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Hi Sue,
Back in the pre-IVF/fertility drug days...I would imagine that the upper age limit for women would have been 49/50 ish?
I can't help wondering how some of these elderly parents shown in the press of late are going to manage when their sweet little bundles hit adolescence...& they're in their 70's/80's!!
Romilly. ;D ;D
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No Keith,
That was not what I meant.
I was on the a track and admittedly changing the subject. I had been struck by the advaced age of a couple of fathers mentioned.
Just pondering the simple question older mothers.
Sorry if I have confused and dragged in red herrings.
How old was the oldest mother found in our general family history searches searches?
Sue
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Yes Romilly,
I imagine that too, but the birthing was so regular wasn't it.
I bet there are some surprisingly late efforts out there.
In those days with earlier deaths, I suppose the teen years were not of concern to the deseased parents!
Sue
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Re the female side - my maternal grandmother was born almost 82 years before me (my maternal grandfather was born 4 years earlier than her). The age gaps are less further back - a mere 75 years between my mum & her maternal grandmother and 71 years for the previous generation.
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In my family my paternal grandfather was born in 1864 and I was born in 1969.......a gap of 104 years. But then that side seemed to start having kids relatively late.
Jaki
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I cannot top some of those previously mentioned, but I can claim a 106 year gap. My paternal grandfather born 7 January 1836 and me 1942, by which time my grandfather had been dead for 47 years.
Jebber
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How does 93 years 264 days rate between my mother and my latest child?? Both are extant.
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My paternal grandfather was born in 1876, my father in 1922, and I was born in 1965. Not quite a century.....
I only ever knew one grandmother (my maternal one) 1897-1995.
My paternal grandfather 1876-1933; his wife, my grandmother, 1880-1924.
My maternal grandfather 1884-1935.
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I have a 3rd cousin whose grandparents (my 2 x gt g/p) were born 1839.
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Nice to see an old thread ressurected
James Griffin born c1765
Youngest child William born 1841
Youngest grandchild Delia born 1883
So 118 year gap - which I see doesn't break any records here :D
Jan ;)
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Why don't we stick to living people? History has its distortions, but the present is very verifiable.
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I quite agree, Janan,
I remember this being a lot of fun, but can't quite remember whether anyone had matched the achievement (?) of individuals of three consecutive generations of my mother's direct family being born in different centuries, i.e. James GURNER b. 1695, his son James GURNER in 1738, and his granddaughter Mary GURNER in 1802...
regards, keith
...and I think you may very well start a storm of debate on here with that last post of yours, Cyberbean...
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@Keith
I certainly hope so. Being a new father at 63 deserves some startling reactions!!! Bring it on and challenge my mother/son gap.
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My grandfather was baptised in 1828, my father born in 1899, I was born in 1940, and my brother in 1945. My gap afterf my grandfather at least 112 years, my brother at least 117.
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I hope everyone realizes that in years to come the thread will be the opposite of this one. With all these teenage pregnancies these days, the thread will be something like: "how many generations in a century". :)
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And Keith, I do agree. There might be some greater gaps posted on here, but I think yours wins with the 3 different centuries.
Darren
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Going back to original post question, I can't take the trophy here; but I've a fairly impressive 116-year gap between birth of my gggrandfather (Roger Jones Owen snr, b1788) and my grandfather, born 1904. My great-grandfather fathered fifteen children over a 45-year period (two consecutive wives, I hasten to add :D !). On that subject, the 1899 census shows his oldest son (then married and head of his own household) living right next door to the family that my grandmother would be born into, in 1903. I've often wondered if my grandfather ever visited his big brother when he was a little boy and noticed over the back fence -- perhaps even got to know -- the little girl living next door whom he would later marry. (Sorry, getting a bit off topic here! But I thought it a sweet story).
Er...perhaps I should start a 'biggest gap between children of the same father' thread?!
CELTICANNIE
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Celtic Annie,
Looks like you've trumped - certainly matched - my family's claim to fame with three consecutive generations spanning three centuries: 18th, 19th, and 20thC, as compared with 17th, 18th and 19th C in my case; but with a bigger spread of 116 years as opposed to just 107 years.
And, yes, I do love it when a thread that has lain dormant for, in this case, over 4 years, suddenly springs to back life again...
keith
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There's life in them there old threads! ;)
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Sorry Keith and Celtic Annie, but I think my family is still in the lead. ;D ;D ;D
See original post:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0g4s
James Dickers b.1796
James G. Dickers b.1874
Leslie Dickers b. 1922
3 centuries and a gap of 125+ years
Cheers,
Carmela
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Wow, yet another 3 century gap. And this was in the days before viagra. ;)
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Absolutely correct, Carmela!
I hadn't been paying attention properly at the back of the class as usual...
Gold medal position for you on both counts at the moment, unless someone else comes along with a set of circumstances even more outrageous.
I'll hang on for now to the booby prize for three generations born consecutively in the 17th, 18th and 19th C, then.
keith
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I hope everyone realizes that in years to come the thread will be the opposite of this one. With all these teenage pregnancies these days, the thread will be something like: "how many generations in a century". :)
It already is in a lot of cases, my daughter who is a teacher, and a colleague who is a NTA at the same school both took their 4 year olds to see a children's play recently. Both of them are in their 40s, one of them is a grandmother already.
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Here in Australia, the government is probably partly to blame. About 17 years ago, they brought in a scheme designed to encourage the falling birthrate, a baby bonus. The only problem is, you get the same amount EVERY time you have a baby. And the worse part of it is the fact that it is the welfare-reliant section of society that is pumping them out at a rate of knots.
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Sorry, my soapbox has probably gone off-topic. :)
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My Grandfather Herbert Henry Isaac was born in Toxteth Park Liverpool in 1874 and I his youngest Grandaughter was born in Tasmania in 1958.My Father Terence bieng the youngest of eleven children was born 25 years after his first sibling was born. ;D
Johngirl
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That could be the start of another thread maybe: the gap between oldest and youngest children.
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Darren,
I think that, as a theme, this has already been explored somewhere on Rootschat - I seem to remember I started a thread when I discovered that my gt-grandma Annie Sherwood (nee MILES) had given birth to NINE consecutive boys as a gentle start to producing and rearing children in the late 1870's. The challenge was then to discover if anyone had experienced a larger number of consecutive same gender births in their own family, and this then evolved into which woman had managed to keep giving birth to children for the longest number of years.
If I remember correctly, it was in excess of 30 years, extraordinary...
keith
N.B. The length in years between oldest and youngest sibling in a generation, and then also someone marrying and producing children late in their own life are the two factors that produce the large gaps between d.o.b. of a grandparent and one of of his/her grandchildren, of course...
...very naughty of me, because this is off topic somewhat, but my gt-grandma Annie had her first child in 1878, aged a mere 15 (she 2 years later married the father) and until recently I thought her last birth was twins in 1903. But I have recently discovered that she had a baby boy called Nelson in 1907. After that, I reckon she'd "done her duty"....no offence to our great Admiral intended...!
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Not so much a gap as an unusual family spacing, my wife's great grandfather, named unfortunately John Smith was the only boy in a family of seven, there were three girls followed by him, then three more girls! Never seen a spacing like that anywhere else.
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Reading both of your last posts started me thinking.
I wonder what the record is for the largest number of same sex children in one family. Roger has mentioned 6, Keith nine (or were there more?). My own father was the youngest of 10 children, nine of which were boys. Sadly my auntie was the last to pass away. I think it broke her heart to see all of her brothers go before her.
So, do we have any takers on this one?
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There were 71 years between my maternal grandaprents and me. They didn't have my mum, youngest of ten, till they were 45!
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John Tyler, 10th President of US was born in 1790. He has two living grandsons. Last one born in 1928. that's 138 years. Easy to find on web
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I'm 97 years younger than my GF. My youngest cousin was born almost 100 years after our GF. Youngest child of GF was born over 100 years after the alleged birth of his father.
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I was born 84 years after my maternal grandfather (I'm the youngest of the youngest). My mum was born 87 years after her grandfather so the generations are rather long in my family. My younger daughter was born 85 years after my Dad.
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I was born when my granddad was 75 - not too extraordinary, but all my friends had much younger grandparents.
More remarkable is my granddad's own grandfather, who was born about 90 years before him. He married (for the second time) at age 60, his daughter (my great-grandmother) was born, then he died shortly afterwards. My granddad was born 30 years later.
Even more remarkable is that my great-great-grandfather had been married before at age 20 and was already a grandfather in his early forties. So my great-grandmother had a niece who was about 20 years older than her!
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There is 112 year gap between my grandfather's birth and mine.I have so far been unable to confirm whether he and his first wife had any children certainly none survived to adulthood, but there is one possibility, s baby girl b 1860 who died in infancy may have been theirs. If so, my father had a half sister 39 years his senior, and as my aunt she would have been 80 years older than me. I have so far been unable to confirm this due to problems with the lincolnshire site Lincllinks.
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My 4*great grandfather George Fido was born 1st May 1816 (and I've only just realised that his daughter (who I descend from) died on his 80th birthday)
His second to last daughter Hannah (from his fourth marriage) was born in 1861 and had her youngest child in jan 1910, so almost 94 years
George died in 1902, 5 of his grandchildren were born after his death at 85
My grandmother was 72 when I was born (75 when my brother was born) - my dad wasn't the youngest child but we are the youngest grandchildren I believe
On the other side they were mid 50s so different generations really
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Perhaps I am cynical but researching s village near Cambridge I found a disproportionate number of mothers who at the time of giving birth to their last child 45 upwards, had a teenaged daughter in the house. I wonder if they were in fact covering illegitimate births?
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My paternal grandfather was 75 when I was born 3rd youngest, 77 my sister 2nd youngest and 83 when my cousin was born, youngest grandchild.
My father was the youngest child but my mother was 2nd eldest and 5 years younger than my father so maternal grandfather was 58 when I was born, his eldest grandchild ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Perhaps I am cynical but researching s village near Cambridge I found a disproportionate number of mothers who at the time of giving birth to their last child 45 upwards, had a teenaged daughter in the house. I wonder if they were in fact covering illegitimate births?
It's possible but I know of several women who have given birth when they were grandmothers already - including one in the same week as her daughter
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Perhaps I am cynical but researching s village near Cambridge I found a disproportionate number of mothers who at the time of giving birth to their last child 45 upwards, had a teenaged daughter in the house. I wonder if they were in fact covering illegitimate births?
It's possible but I know of several women who have given birth when they were grandmothers already - including one in the same week as her daughter
I have similar. The 2 babies were both baptised and buried within 4 weeks in 1836. Catherine, 2nd illegitimate child of eldest daughter, Barbara, was baptised 14th. Feb. Maria, 10th & youngest daughter of Barbara's mother, then aged 45, was baptised 9th March. Maria was probably premature; her sister, Elizabeth was baptised July 1835 and her brothers in May 1834 and June 1833. Catherine was buried 10th March, the day after her infant aunt's baptism. Maria was buried 15th March.
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Personally with the stigma on illegitimacy then and later. I think this was often used as a cover
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You may be right. There were certainly cases of children believing that their mothers were their sisters.
I'm going by information in parish registers for my reply #55. My naughty (or unfortunate) girl, Barbara was also pregnant in 1833. (I lost count of her pregnancies.) There was a removal order dated March that year. So far not come across a baptism for a baby of hers in 1833 or 1834. However her parents had a son baptised in each of those years. They seemed to have brought up her first child, a boy born 1829 when B. was 18, along with their own. Their 1st son died aged 2 and they had only daughters until 1833. I'm a bit suspicious about Elizabeth 1835 because there's no sign of her later. There's also a mystery 2 year old girl in the household on 1841 census; no idea who was responsible for her existence; no birth or death registration, baptism or burial. Barbara eventually married, twice, probably to the relief of her parents.
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Maiden Stone I have a similar situation in the late 18th century, the woman I believe to have been my 3xgreat grandmother had numerous illegitimate children and claimed for none of them on the parish. Perhaps that was her occupation and also why noone with my surname seems to match my DBS before her son.
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Maiden Stone I have a similar situation in the late 18th century, the woman I believe to have been my 3xgreat grandmother had numerous illegitimate children and claimed for none of them on the parish. Perhaps that was her occupation and also why noone with my surname seems to match my DBS before her son.
This thought has crossed my mind more than once.
I checked the date of a removal order for Barbara when she was "a Singlewoman, great with child and poor" and realised it was 3 years before the baptism and death of her daughter, Catherine. The removal order was set aside a few months later. Explanations may be: 1833 pregnancy ended in miscarriage or neo-natal death; the baby was palmed off to someone else; one of the sons born to her parents in 1833 or 1834 was hers; Catherine was not a baby when she was baptised. :-\
Barbara was not my direct ancestor. That was one of her younger sisters who also had an illegitimate child when she was 18. However he was the son of her future husband, named on birth certificate. Another sister had an illegitimate son in summer 1841. Baptism register has her father's name as the child's name which had me confused again. ??? She married a few years later, possibly to the real father of her son. That baby was too late for 1841 census, otherwise there would have been 2 babies and a toddler in the household as well as Barbara's 10 year-old son.
The parish church baptism register didn't note that babies were illegitimate.
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I have a strange one. My grandfather's neice had an illegitimate son with a farmer she was in domestic service to. Two years later she married him, but the baby stayed with my grandfather and was brought up by him and his first wife. They had no children in a forty year marriage apart from a possible infant death after about 7 years into the marriage. She died in 1894, shortly afterwards aged 66/7 he married my grandmother then aged 35. 5 months later my aunt was born! Dad was born when he was 70/1! Dad married at40. Hence the 112 year gap between me and my grandfather. 117 in my brother's case.
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I have a pretty unusual situation myself. My father was 63 at the time of my birth. When we recently found out he was adopted, things got a little crazy. Turns out his biological father was 53 at the time of his birth. That makes for a whopping 116 years between my biological grandfather and me.
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You and you grandfather might be current board leaders, jersey.
Welcome to RootsChat.
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I have a pretty unusual situation myself. My father was 63 at the time of my birth. When we recently found out he was adopted, things got a little crazy. Turns out his biological father was 53 at the time of his birth. That makes for a whopping 116 years between my biological grandfather and me.
Puts me down from 2nd to 3rd at 112 years (1828-1940) My young brother still leads at 117 years (1828-1945)
There were no adoptions in ours, just a very late 2nd marriage for my grandfather at 66
My grandfather was 71 when dad was born and Dad was 41 for me and 46 for my brother.
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I have a grandfather born in 1796 with his final grandson (who was my own grandfather) born in 1904, when grandson's father (who fathered 16 children in total) was 63! So 108 years!
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My paternal name bearing great grandfather was b1798, his wife b1791. My 2xggm b1765. Her father b1703.
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My great grandfather b 1850 jakobstadt I'm descended from his eldest son b1870
But the youngest daughter was born 1906
I think his youngest grandchild was born in 1940
Two of his granddaughters lived to be over a 100
I also have a photo of my Scots great grandparents in their late 90's meeting my newborn sister !
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My youngest brother was born 98 years after the birth of our oldest grandparent. Our paternal grandfather was born in 1919 and my youngest brother in 2017. Our father had children over a 49-year period with multiple women (I myself was born in the 90s).
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I have a relative who married a man 42 years her senior. He was 80 when their only child was born and would have been 109 when, as far as I can tell, his only grandchild was born.
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My grandfather John Luffman was born 1828.i was b1940. My younger brother was b1945. 112years between my grandfather and myself. 117 years between him and my brother. A remarriage at 66 plus a latish (40+) marriage in the next generation makes a difference to the time line.
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My ancestor born 1752 had a grandchild born 1860. John Boniface had his son George in 1794 and George wed his 2nd wife and they had their last child in 1860. George had his first child with his first wife in 1818 so 42 years between his eldest and youngest child. So the 2 half siblings were the same "generation" even if born 42 years apart, and the gap big enough for the 2 half siblings to be grandparent and grandchild.
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I have at least one instance in mother's tree of a nephew marrying his aunt.Then, as now illegal. He was the son of the oldest of 10 children. 20 years or so later his aunt was born at around the same time.How it was allowed in a small village is unbelievable.
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In 1810 my 57 year old female ancestor Sarah Page, widow, wed an 18 year old, Lewis James. wed by license and he was a minor.