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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: tuppenze on Sunday 09 September 07 15:41 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me with some research I am currently doing on one of my ancestors.
Alexander Cowie from Buckie drowned at sea on the 19th Oct 1864. It states on his death cert that he lost his life during a gale while on a fishing boat and he was aged 40yrs (unfortunately I have been unable to find his birth cert)
If anyone out there could provide me with any info regarding this incident or his family it would be much appreciated.
Regards
Tuppenze :)
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1861
alexander cowie age 40 b. rathven,banffshire. occ. whitefisher
ann cowie age 35. b. ditto. wife.
dowie ellen cowie age 20. b. ditto. wife?
john age 11. b. ditto. son.
margaret age 9. b. ditto. daughter.
jane age 7. b. ditto. daughter.
jane age 3. b. ditto. daughter.
jessie age 2. b. ditto. daughter.
john age 2mnths b. ditto. son.
living at new street,rathven,banffshire.
there seems to be something wrong with this entry 2 wifes 2 children named john,2 named jane. unfortunately i cannot see the image so cannot check to see what is wrong.
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do you have the 1851 census only if you do not i will post it if you want
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Hi Wozzle,
Thanks for you quick reply and info. The info I have is that is wife was called Margaret and she died in Aug 1870. The problem I am finding is that there are sooooo many people with the same names from that area that it is difficult to establish which are the ones from my family.
Thanks for the offer but I have already looked at the 1851 census.
Thanks again for your help.
Tuppenze :)
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Have you tried the site www.moray.gov.uk/LocalHeritage for details. They are very helpful. It lists An Alex "Bullen" Cowie and Peter "Bullen" Cowie as being drowned Oct 20, 1864. "Bullen" would be their T-name. Lynne
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Hi Lynne,
Many thanks for the website address I am sure it will be very helpful. The info about Alex and Peter Cowie is great. You say that "bullen" is the t-name what does that actually mean.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks once again
Penny :)
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Hi Penny
Perhaps someone else out there can explain T-names. All I know is that it is used to differentiate families with the same name. Buckie is full of Cowies, Sandend full of Smiths, Portknockie full of Mairs etc. Sometimes it refers to a physical characteristic. I thought that Moray might be able to find a newspaper article on the tragedy since you have a firm date. Happy hunting!...Lynne
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Hi Lynne,
Thanks very much I will carry on digging!
Penny
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Penny, another website to try: www.buckieheritage.org
There are a few email addresses you could try on this site...Lynne
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Thanks very much Lynne I will give this site a try
Penny
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I think the incident you are referring to was the Shamrock Disaster. Several ancestors of mine died in the same incident. I've not found out much about it but imagine the folk at Buckie's fishing museum will.
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Hi Smithgor
Thanks for the info, I will see if they will be able to help with my research. If I get any info of interest I will let you know.
Thanks once again.
Penny :)
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Alexander Cowie from Buckie drowned at sea on the 19th Oct 1864 .... he was aged 40yrs (unfortunately I have been unable to find his birth cert)
There were no birth certificates before 1855, when civil registration began, so the best you could get would be a baptism, if there was a record and if it has survived.
What were the names of his parents?
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Hi Forfarian,
I sadly haven't got the names of his parents. I have had a look at the baptism records but because I have such little information and there are so many Alexander Cowies it has been difficult to find which is the right one.
Regards
Tuppenze :)
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Ah. I assumed that you had them because they are normally stated on a death certificate after 1855.
Yes, it is going to be extremely difficult to work out which Alexander Cowie he was.
LIBINDX at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp has three mentions of him, but seems unsure whether his father was Alexander or Peter.
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Hi Penny
In respect of your earlier query re T-NAMES, there are a number of definitions, including this one from SP:
To-names
To-names or T-names meaning “other names” or nicknames, were prevalent particularly in the fishing communities of North East Scotland, but were also seen in the Borders and to a lesser extent in the West Highlands.
In those areas where a relatively small number of surnames were in use, T-names were tacked on to the name to distinguish individuals with the same surname and forename. The nickname may have referred to a distinguishing feature or be the name of the fishing boat on which the person was employed. These T-names have made their way into the records. For example, amongst the numerous John Cowies of Buckie can be found fisherman John Cowie “Carrot” who married Isabella Jappie of Cullen in 1892. Was this perhaps a reference to the colour of his hair?
The T-name appears on a statutory results page in brackets in order to distinguish it from a middle name e.g. James (Rosie) Cowie, James (Bullen) Cowie, Jessie (Gyke) Murray, and may be designated in inverted commas on the image of the actual entry.
Monica :)
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This looks to be the family in 1841, everyone born in the county:
Alex Cowie 25, white fisher
Margt Cowie 21
Janniet Reid 12 (sister to Margaret?)
John Cowie 7
Jamil Cowie 4
Margt Cowie 1
Address: Buckie, Rathven
A submitted entry on IGI for the son John listed above:
John OR Bullen Cowie Birth: About 1834 Buckie, Rathven, Banff, Scotland
Parents: Alexander OR Bullen Cowie and Margaret Reid
The marriage/ banns for Alexander and Margaret Reid is showing as on 28 NOV 1833 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
From his 1864 death cert that you have seen, it should state the name of his parents. Was this info not shown?
Regards.
Monica
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I admit it :'( I am getting very confused :P
The 1864 death of Alexander Cowie Bullen XXnior (almost looks like Junior), drowned at sea, shows him as age 40 (no other details on it relating to parents/wife etc - reported by the procurator fiscal)
The 1870 death of Margaret JAPPY Cowen, age 47, shows her as widow of Alexander Cowie, fisherman. Parents James Jappy and Mary Cowie
This looks a likely christening entry for her, actual extract from the OPRs on IGI:
MARGT. JAPPIE Christening: 02 FEB 1825 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
Parents:JAS. JAPPIE MARY COWIE
There is a marriage between an Alexander Cowie and Margaret Jappie on 04 OCT 1857 Rathven, Banff, Scotland. Parents showing for this Margaret Jappie on the MC match the christening entry and death cert.
Both show as widowers. Alexander age 45, parents William Cowie (deceased) and Elspeth Cowie. Margaret age 33, parents as above.
Children showing for them on IGI:
1. MARY COWIE Birth: 27 DEC 1857 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
2. JOHN COWIE Birth: 23 APR 1860 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
3. GEORGE COWIE Birth: 25 MAY 1862 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
4. MARGARET COWIE Birth: 27 OCT 1864 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
This would look to be a likely entry for them in 1861:
Alexander Cowie 51, whitefisher
Margaret Cowie 39
Mary Cowie 3
John Cowie 10 Mo
Address: County Road, Rathven
In respect of the Alexander Cowie with parents James and Elspeth, this looks his christening entry along with siblings:
1. ALEXANDER COWIE Christening: 25 JUL 1809 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
2. WILLIAM COWIE Christening: 23 SEP 1811 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
3. HELEN COWIE Christening: 08 JAN 1814 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
4. JOHN COWIE Christening: 14 DEC 1815 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
5. JANET COWIE Christening: 12 OCT 1817 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
6. MARY COWIE Christening: 12 MAY 1820 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
7. MARGARET COWIE Christening: 11 JUN 1823 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
The approximate age of the Alexander above would (thereabouts) match the census ages for the Alexander first married to Margaret Reid and then Margaret Jappy.
What it doesn't match is the death at age of the Alexander Cowie Bullen in 1864 :-\ but given that no other info is included on the cert.....
Monica :)
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:'( :'( :'(
I am way off here. I have just realised that the date of birth for daughter Margaret was 27 OCT 1864 Rathven, Banff, Scotland. The date of death for Alexander Cowie Bullen was 19 October 1864. To prove yeah or neigh, I thought Margaret's birth entry would show her father as alive or dead............and he is alive and well and registering her birth on 27 October.........
Penny, how did you connect Margaret Jappy's death in 1870 to the death of Alexander Cowie Bullen in 1864?
Monica
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Never one to be put off...... ::)
Alexander and Peter BULLEN COWIE were not the only two to have perished in the drowing at sea. Sadly, it looks like a whole family of men and maybe also the father to Alex and Peter (?). Their bodies were actually washed ashore in the County of Inverness-shire, duplicate entries for their deaths show there:
1864 BULLEN ALEX COWIE 62 ARDERSIER /INVERNESS
1864 BULLEN ALEX COWIE 40 ARDERSIER /INVERNESS
1864 BULLEN PETER COWIE 22 ARDERSIER /INVERNESS
1864 BULLEN WILLIAM COWIE 38 ARDERSIER /INVERNESS
This may explain what I thought was Junior on the 1864 DC I viewed in Rathven.
Have you tried searching for report of the incident at the Procurator Fiscal Office?
Monica
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To parents Alexander COWIE and Margaret SMITH:
1. ALEXR. COWIE Christening: 06 DEC 1824 Rathven, Banff, Scotland.
2. WILLIAM COWIE Christening: 10 DEC 1826 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
3. GEORGE COWIE Christening: 28 JAN 1829 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
4. MARGARET COWIE Christening: 13 JUL 1831 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
5. PETER COWIE Christening: 28 SEP 1833 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
6. JOHN COWIE Christening: 14 JAN 1836 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
The family's 1841 entry:
Alexander Cowie 35, whitefisher
Margaret Cowie 30
Alexander Cowie 15
William Cowie 13
George Cowie 11
Peter Cowie 8
Jane Cowie 2
Address: Buckie, Rathven
And in 1851, everyone showing as born in Buckie:
Alexander Cowie 46
Margaret Cowie 44
William Cowie 23
Peter Cowie 17
Jane Cowie 12
Jannet Cowie 8
Margaret Cowie 6
Mary Cowie 1
Address: Buckie, Rathven
And that's where I stop before I start getting all confused again :P
Monica
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Hi MonicaLesl, :o
Wow I am so impressed with all the information you have found. I really appreciate the time you have taken.
With regards to the connection between the death of margaret jappy and alexander cowie, when I found the marriage of their son in 1883 it stated that both parents were deceased. From there I worked back looking through the census and gradually whittled it down.
I hope this makes sense.
By the way where is the Procurator Fiscal Office? do they have a website?
Thanks once again for your help.
Penny :)
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Hi Penny
As you saw from my searching earlier and all the dead ends ::), from what you now say, I don't think the death of the 40 yr old Alexander Cowie Bullen Junior in 1864 is connected to the couple Alexander Cowie and Margaret Jappy who married in 1857. This Alexander was still alive and reporting the birth of his daughter Margaret eight days after Alex Cowie Bullen had died.
Have you looked for the death cert for your Alexander Cowie based on the ages he gave on the censuses and his marriage cert? Given that in the 1870 death cert of Margaret Jappy she showed as a widow, Alexander must have died at some point after the birth of his daughter Margaret (27 OCT 1864) and before his wife died on 27 AUG 1870.
Fortunately, with the second marriage taking place after 1855, you have details of his parents which I posted and should be able to verify the names given on the DC.
Regards.
Monica :)
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This looks like the family in 1861:
Alexander Cowie 51, whitefisher
Margaret Cowie 39
Mary Cowie 3
John Cowie 10 Mo
Address: County Road, Rathven
Monica
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Hi Monica,
I think you're right about the 40yr Alexander Cowie.
I will now try and find my Alexander Cowie using the ages he gave on the marriage cert and censuses.
Kind regards
Penny :)
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Penny
:) This is his death entry:
1869 COWIE ALEXANDER 60 RATHVEN /BANFF
Twist and turns on this one ::) Ist wife was Isabella Finlay. Parents as we already have.
Monica
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Actual extract from the OPRs showing for the 1st marriage:
ALEXANDER COWIE Marriages: Spouse: ISABEL FINDLAY
Marriage: 03 NOV 1829 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
Entries showing on IGI for children, all but the first is a submitted entry:
1. WILLIAM COWIE Christening: 10 JAN 1830 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
2. Janet Cowie Birth: About 1834 Buclie, Rathven, Banff, Scotland/ Death: 26 JUN 1860
3. Catherine CowieBirth: About 1836 Buclie, Rathven, Banff, Scotland/ Death: 10 MAR 1859
4. Alexander Cowie Birth: 1838 Buckie, Rathven, Banff, Scotland - Reported father's death
5. George Cowie Birth: 1840 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
6. James Cowie Birth: 1844 Buclie, Rathven, Banff, Scotland
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Family in the Censuses:
These look like the children living with their maternal grandmother in 1841 in Buckie. Can't easily see parents:
Elspet Cowie 70
William Cowie 25, whitefisher
Hellen Cowie 20
Mary Cowie 15
William Cowie 10
Jannet Cowie 8
Catharine Cowie 5
Hellen Cowie 1
1851:
Alexander Cowie 39, fisher
Isabella Cowie 45
William Cowie 21
Jannet Cowie 17
Cathrine Cowie 15
Alexander Cowie 13
George Cowie 11
James Cowie 6
Address: 54 xx, Buckie
Monica
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For the 1841 census, the transcript I am looking at seems to have split the household in error. Also listed on the page (must be the same household) is:
Alexander Cowie 25
Isabella Cowie 25
Alexander Cowie 3
Remember that on the 1841 census, ages for everyone over 15 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 yrs, everyone under 15 is meant to show at their actual age (doesn't always happen this way).
Monica
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To parents Alexander COWIE and Margaret SMITH:
1. ALEXR. COWIE Christening: 06 DEC 1824 Rathven, Banff, Scotland.
2. WILLIAM COWIE Christening: 10 DEC 1826 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
3. GEORGE COWIE Christening: 28 JAN 1829 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
4. MARGARET COWIE Christening: 13 JUL 1831 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
5. PETER COWIE Christening: 28 SEP 1833 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
6. JOHN COWIE Christening: 14 JAN 1836 Rathven, Banff, Scotland
The family's 1841 entry:
Alexander Cowie 35, whitefisher
Margaret Cowie 30
Alexander Cowie 15
William Cowie 13
George Cowie 11
Peter Cowie 8
Jane Cowie 2
Address: Buckie, Rathven
And in 1851, everyone showing as born in Buckie:
Alexander Cowie 46
Margaret Cowie 44
William Cowie 23
Peter Cowie 17
Jane Cowie 12
Jannet Cowie 8
Margaret Cowie 6
Mary Cowie 1
Address: Buckie, Rathven
And that's where I stop before I start getting all confused again :P
Monica
The above are all in my family tree. I came across this site purely by chance while looking for a photo of my uncle when he came home from the war. I have an enormous file of information on the Cowie's which unfortunately I cannot access at present due to the software not working on my new computer although I had the sense at one point to print of a hardcopy which at present stands at 79 sheets taped together!
To answer a previous post regarding T-names, Cowie Carrots were indeed named for their red hair, Cowie Rosie I believe for their rosie cheeks. My paternal grandmother was a Cowie Carrot although her maiden name was Bowie. My paternal grandfather's line was Cowie Bullen and I have a great deal of information on his line, mainly all fisherfolk, many of whom including my grandfather were lost at sea.
I shall certainly be looking back here often for more information.
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Hi Denise
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Hopefully you and Penny can compare notes!
Monica