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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: chloed on Thursday 20 September 07 08:56 BST (UK)
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would like to know where holborn bars was / is please .
have looked on greenwoods 1827 map and more recent ones but cannot find exact location, i think its somewhere north east direction of chancery lane.
thank you ???
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It is where the Prudential building stands on Holborn. This link tells you something of the Pru site history.
http://www.ludgatecircus.com/prudential.htm
Barry
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And before then...
http://www.victorianweb.org/art/architecture/feist/10.html
meles
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This site gives some background and more pictures
http://www.victorianlondon.org/districts/holborn.htm
meles
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Hi Barry,
I picked up your link whilst Google-ing.
My g. grandfather was Edward Hepburn b.1846 Goswell St.
Clerkenwell.
His parents were Charles and Elizabeth from Holborn.
Are you researching this family ?
With regards,
Vicki
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Hi
I have done extensive research on Holborn. I have even set up a group about the parish of St Alban Holborn on Facebook. I also have a collection of photos of the area.
My great, great grandmother and her parents lived here from 1878 to her fathers death in 1889. They lived at 69 Leather Lane, 9 Portpool Lane, then 18 Evelyn Buildings which is down Dorrington Street, Holborn Above The Bars. Dorrington Street is just north of Furnivals Inn.
Furnivals Inn is just below the Brookes Market and Prudential buildings.
In 1813 my Coombs ancestors lived for a short time at 114 Grays Inn Lane in Holborn.
Ben
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Hi Ben,
on the 1841 Census my g.g.g. grandparents are listed as being born in England but not in that county which would have been Middlesex.
He is aged 60 and she 62. However, I have been advised that they often rounded up an age to the nearest decade.
He could have a birth date of 1776 - 1785.
The I.G.I. has a marriage for a John and Elizabeth 1805 at Bishopwearmouth Northumberland.
Not sure so I am trying all other avenues first.
Would love to see Holborn photo's.
Vicki
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Vicki: Yes I am researching the Hepburn's of Clerkenwell/Islington and possibly Limehouse: they seemed to move around a bit! At the moment I am struggling to decide if two William Hepburn's are the same person and until I resolve that I am reluctant to 'spread my wings', so I have not come across your Edward yet. I don't doubt he is connected somewhere, coming from the same area - there weren't that many Hepburn's although far more in London than I ever imagined. We must stay in touch and exchange any links we find. Ref the 1841 census, for any person over the age of 15, enumerators were only required to enter their age to the nearest 5 below. However, some enumerators did ignore this and put the declared age in.
Ben: Thanks for that information and I am sure all your hard work is going to be of value. Perhaps I can contact you when I have a specific query.
Barry
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Hi Ben and Barry,
not sure if I can do this but if you would like to email me I have certificates, census returns and a portrait of a John Hepburn. Possibly our g.g.g.grandfather.
Bye for now,
Vicki
Moderator Comment: Personal email address removed in accordance with Rootschat Policy to prevent spam and other internet abuses. Please use the personal message system to exchange details off-forum.
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Hi
Vicki, where in Holborn did John & Elizabeth live in 1841?
I have an 1894 and 1914 and 1965 map of Holborn as well plus a book called Memories Of Holborn.
Ben
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Hi Ben,
There address on the 1841 census is 76 Theobalds Road.
The National Archives has a Sun assurance for John 1824 at 13 Fisher Street Red Lion Square, his occupation:- Bookbinder.
British History online states that Fisher St was incorporated into Theobalds Road, so assume this is the same address.
They live there until John's death in 1855.
His son Charles moves to Goswell St, Clerkenwell.
Hope this is of help
Vicki
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Hi
Theobalds Road is where the Holborn Library is. The North end of Grays Inn is fully viewable from Theobalds Road.
Theobalds Road is to the left of the Grays Inn Road, Clerkenwell and Theobalds Road crossroads. If you notice that huge building with the Victorian facade, well my great grandmother lived there from 1914 to 1917.
I have a few photos courtesy of the library of bomb damage to a few Holborn streets during WW2.
Ben
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Hi,
sounds if our ancestors were almost neighbours.
How can I access your photo's ?
Can I see them on this site or will they arrive by email ?
This is my first attempt at this site. I cannot read a reply until I have checked my email. Is this normal. Bit of a bind.
Vicki
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Hi Vicki
You need to have a Facebook account to view the group I think. If you do I can post the link.
Ben
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Whether John & Elizabeth are mine or not depends on whether I have one or two William Hepburn's
William Hepburn b circa 1806 allegedly in St George Martyr (adjacent parish to St Andrew Holborn in Red Lion Square!), was a bookbinder before entering army at 21, pensioned off 1842. Father was John and he married a Mary from Stoke by Guidlford at some time, probably after leaving army and had first child 1843ish. This one is conclusively my ancestor.
William Alexander Hepburn bp St Andrew Holborn 1806 parents John & Elizabeth. He married Mary Dean from Stoke by Guildford in 1843 at St Michael Bassetshaw (next door to Guildhall) at which time he states his occupation as jeweller. I have the certificate - father John was a bookbinder - witnesses Charles & Sarah Buck.
Easy to jump to the conclusion they are the same - too many coincidences? If they are then my gggparents are indeed John & Elizabeth. At present I am laboriously ploughing through GRO indexes looking for William Alexander's death and/or children. I too found the IGI John & Elizabeth in Bishopswearmouth but I do not think they are the same as I found another one in a London Parish register at the LMA - just cannot put my finger on it at the moment in my overcrowded filing system. I also recollect finding more children of John & Elizabeth at the LMA and i will send you details when I look them up
Barry
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Hi Ben, is the facebook Group "The Parish Of St Alban Holborn, London EC1. A Historical Portrait. ."
Barry
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Hi Barry and Ben,
I have just sent you a message and downloaded a marriage certificate for Charles and the 1841 census.
an error occured as this site could not support this.
Just hung my computer.
Have signed on at Face book:- Vicki Pluckrose Hertfordshire.
talk soon,
Vicki
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Hi Barry
Yes that is the one.
Ben
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Hi Vicki. Having re-read some of my contributions on this subject I may have caused some confusion by referring to Parishes as they existed at different periods. At risk of teaching you to suck eggs, may I explain that the original pre Norman parish for this area was St Andrew Holborn, which stretched over a huge area, much of it countryside. As the population grew, new parishes were created within the original St Andrews area. Thus it is important when looking at maps, parish records and early census documents, etc, to choose the right one depending on the date being searched. Ignoring very early divisions such as St Giles in the Fields 1547, the first new parish was St George the Martyr, initially as a 'Chapel of Ease' from St Andrews and subsequently (1763?) as a full parish in its own right, mostly covering Queen Square, Red Lion Square and adjacent roads. By 1875 St George the Martyr had become too small and was further split to form St St John the Evangelist, Red Lion Square.
Little happened to the rest of St Andrews Holborn parish boundaries for a further 50+ years, when St Peter Saffron Hill was formed in 1832, Holy Trinity 1839 and, lastly, St Alban (Ben's parish!) in 1863, ie after the 1841 and 1851 census. Sadly, changes to the registration Districts after 1837 simply further add to our headache of reconciling records that we unearth.
Barry
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Hi
Have you viewed my Holborn site yet?
Included is the death cert of my 3xgreat grandmother who died in 1886 at Evelyn Buildings. The churchwarden of St Alban is also a member.
Ben
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Yes Ben, I certainly have. Although much of the topographical content relates to a later period than my ancestors were there, I found the description of life at the time quite thought provoking. Imagine having to work as a soap boiler at 75, only to die a few months later. Puts into perspective many of today's issues relating to retirement and pensions.
Barry
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Hi
Thomas Roberts, my 3xgreat grandfather was a Holborn soap boiler and shoeblack at times of the year. He was also reliant on poor relief due to his age.
Ben
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Hi
The site now contains maps of St Alban Holborn for 1873, 1894 and 1914. Several photos of the area including inside the church, Leather Lane and Brookes Market.
Also included is several stories on the lives of the Roberts family at Evelyn Buildings 1882-1889.
Ben
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Hi Barry
Yes that is the one.
Ben
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Hi
Holborn St Alban is probably one of my favourite areas of London and it is an area that I can relate to. If my ancestors lived there from 1878 to 1889 then you can see why. Also my great gran lived at Grays Inn Buildings from 1914 to 1917 so that is another reason for my love of Holborn.
Ben
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Hi
Thank by your research about the Hepburn Family of Holborn. My English is very bad but my and my wife interest of your ggg grandfather we go to continus.
About of he fotography of them how to can view them
redero
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Im afraid not related to the Hepburns but Ben... your comment... I have done extensive research on Holborn. I have even set up a group about the parish of St Alban Holborn on Facebook. I also have a collection of photos of the area.
My great, great grandmother and her parents lived here from 1878 to her fathers death in 1889. They lived at 69 Leather Lane, 9 Portpool Lane, then 18 Evelyn Buildings which is down Dorrington Street, Holborn Above The Bars. Dorrington Street is just north of Furnivals Inn.
Furnivals Inn is just below the Brookes Market and Prudential buildings.
In 1813 my Coombs ancestors lived for a short time at 114 Grays Inn Lane in Holborn.
I am a descendant of the Murrays (Michael Murray circa 1830 - d 1871 at dorrington Street, m Johanna Brian (o'Brien) his son James Murray (circa 1855) lived Gray's Inn Road, Francis Court, Half moon Court, married Caroline (elizabeth) Diall(s) (farrington Road) , son Thomas Murray (1879) Pine Street, leather Lane, m Annie Sewell. all in the area you describe. I would love to make contact.
Lynne. I have also a FB page Islington Murray Sewell Wigger