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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kilkenny => Topic started by: Gargoyle on Thursday 27 September 07 14:41 BST (UK)

Title: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Thursday 27 September 07 14:41 BST (UK)
Has anyone heard of "The Mall" in Thomastown, I have a photograph of the house that my Grandmother lived in.She was Born in Thomastown and named Ellen O'Neill born 1891.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Friday 21 August 09 23:06 BST (UK)
I know the mall really well as i travelled up and down it every day from Grennan. My grand uncle Michael (Icy) Kelly lived there. All demolished now.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Sunday 23 August 09 10:51 BST (UK)
Hi,
thank you for posting the item about the photo of "The Mall" you are the first person to get in touch with me about the photo.
My Grandmother Ellen Neill/O'Neill born 1891 lived there but I'm not sure when, I think it was the early 1920s. My Grandmother's parents were called John Neill/O'Neill and Elizabeth Kelly.
I have attached photographs of another family member with the horse, his name was Tom Murphy and I believe he was a race horse trainer.
I have been searching for a long time for information about my Grandmothers family with no luck.
Regards
Tony
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Sunday 23 August 09 19:45 BST (UK)
Hi, great to hear from you. My name is Kelly from Grennan which started at the end of The Mall. My father (RIP) was born there in 1913 and passed away in1995. His uncle Michael (better known as ICY) a blacksmith was the last person to live in that house. In fact they are both buried in the same grave. I will send a photo of same next time I visit Thomastown which will be next week. There is a family of O'Neills living about 200 yards further up the road from that house. Sad ly all the male members of this family are now deceased. Any idea what year the photos you sent me were taken?If you send me some more info I'll see what I can find out for you. I don't know if it's allowed on this site buy you might try to email Privately at; (*).  Looking forward to hearing from you.  Johnny

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Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Sunday 23 August 09 22:34 BST (UK)
Hi Johnny,
I have uploaded some more photos, I am unsure where abouts they are I beleive they are in the Thomastown Area the dates are around 1924 I think.
I have tried to send my Email Address on the Personal Messages.
Regards Tony
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Sunday 23 August 09 22:44 BST (UK)
More Photos
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Sunday 23 August 09 23:59 BST (UK)
Hi, Got your photos. The two bridges are still there. Stone bridge is in the middle of the town but greatly modified. The iron bridge is exactly the same. Its about 1 mile from the town and is the main rail link from Dublin to Waterford. The house? Don't know (yet) but will find out. Don't know the people but will try to find out. Tried the email you sent but it wont work. Will try to get my email to you soon. Stay in touch, and if any more photos please send.   Johnny
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Wednesday 26 August 09 09:59 BST (UK)
Hi John,
I have some more photos for you to look at.
Regards,
Tony
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Wednesday 26 August 09 10:06 BST (UK)
More Photos
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ockie37 on Wednesday 23 December 09 19:06 GMT (UK)
Hi, I have a cousin, Living at the Top of the Mall, in Grennan, her surname is O'Neill
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Wednesday 23 December 09 20:31 GMT (UK)
Hi,
my Grandmother was Ellen O'Neill born in 1891 in Thomastown.
Ellen's parents were John O'Neill and Elizabeth Kelly
Ellen's brothers were
John b 1891
James b 1896
Michael b 1902
Christopher b 1905
And a Sister named Elizabeth (Betty) b 1899 who married a Thomas Murphy who trained race horses.
Regards,
Tony
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Monday 28 December 09 21:18 GMT (UK)
Hi ockie 37.
The O'Neill Living at the top of the mall I think is my sister.  jakel
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ockie37 on Tuesday 29 December 09 23:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Jakel.

The Oneill living at the top at mall. Her Married Name was Kavanagh. she now has gone back to her maiden name of  O' Neill :D
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Tuesday 29 December 09 23:48 GMT (UK)
Don't know the lady. She's definitely not my sister. I thought I knew everybody living in that area, as I was born and reared in Grennan. My sister lives in Castle Ave. I haven't lived in Thmastown for a long time now.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ockie37 on Tuesday 29 December 09 23:58 GMT (UK)
she use ti live in Castle ave. she had 4 sister and one brother, they father was killed on the waterford road in 1974. their and my grandmother was Elizabeth Fanning, she lived in Grennan on the corner of Grennan / castle ave.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ockie37 on Wednesday 30 December 09 00:00 GMT (UK)
when i use to go over as a kid, there was another o'neill family further up Grennan, i think about 3 doors away from my grandmother
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Wednesday 30 December 09 20:00 GMT (UK)
I know who you mean now. Vonnie is a lifelong friend of mine. We went to school together and she is a very good friend of my sister
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ockie37 on Wednesday 30 December 09 22:29 GMT (UK)
so you might know her Brother patrick or paud , he was my Father.
I am off to visit my aunt Vonnie in March
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Thursday 31 December 09 18:38 GMT (UK)
Knew Paud as we called him very well. I only lived half a mile further up the road from that family.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ockie37 on Friday 01 January 10 01:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Jakel.

Whats your name, as i will be telling Vonnie, and she will ask "what was their name"?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Friday 01 January 10 23:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Ockie.  Just tell her my name is Johnny (Rita's brother). She will know who I am.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: ladywell05 on Sunday 10 January 10 05:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone,
I was very interested in reading your discussions about Thomastown.  My Great Grandmother was born in Lady's Well, Thomastown, her name was Ellen Walsh she was born on 4 November 1850, (a b it before the people you were discussing).  Ellens parents were Thomas Walsh and Bridget Hennessy.  I have found out that they lived in lot 5 Lady's well Street.  Thomas' parents were Edward Walsh and Winifred Fitzgibbon, I have been unable to find out if there were any siblings for Thomas.
Thomas and Bridget were married in Callan on 6 October 1837. Ellen had sibling, some I have been unable to find any information on.
Edmund b 1838, Kilkenny
Honna b 3 June 1840 Kilkenny
Edmond b 21 Jan 1843 Kells
Mary b 16 March 1845 Graig na manach, Kilkenny
Patrick b 30 Jan 1847 Thomastown
Catherine b 25 May 1848 Thomastown
Ellen
Bridget b 13 May 1853, Thomastown
In 1854 the family sailed to Australia where 3 other children were born.
In 2005 I did a trip to Ireland and walked up Lady's Well Stree, but at that time I didn't know where about in the street they lived.
I have a photo of Lady's Well street so will attach for others to see.  If anyone can give me some information about this Walsh family or the Hennessy Family that lived in Callan it would be greatly appreciated.
Regards Dianne


Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: jakel on Monday 11 January 10 19:28 GMT (UK)
Referring to the pic of you walking up Ladywell St. I think you were looking in the wrong place. That street, although always known as Ladywell is not correct. In olden times, around the time frame you placed your relations, in that street was known as "Church Street". Not sure if that is the official name any more.Ladywell started at the corner at the top of your photo. An uncle of my father had a forge there. The Watergarden now occupies the site. It would be much easier to imagine Lot No. 5 in that area. There was a Walsh family living there until a few years ago. Sad now all are R.I.P. Hope this is of some help
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: biggles5000 on Wednesday 24 February 10 12:18 GMT (UK)
Hi im Kevin from Thomastown and still live here if you need any help on the history of the town please dont be afraid to ask.
Title: Ladywell, Thomastown, Kilkenny
Post by: honeysucklerose on Thursday 24 February 11 21:41 GMT (UK)
Anyone know anything about the Deegan family who lived (1901) at 12 Ladyswell Street, Thomastown and (1911) at 26 Newtown, Thomastown?   
Title: Re: Ladywell, Thomastown, Kilkenny
Post by: biggles5000 on Friday 25 February 11 09:21 GMT (UK)
Anyone know anything about the Deegan family who lived (1901) at 12 Ladyswell Street, Thomastown and (1911) at 26 Newtown, Thomastown?   Margaret (Peg) Deegan was my late grandfather's sister, she married Jim Duffy and they lived at Ladywell in the 1920s at least up until 1960.   My grandfather was James Thomas (Jim) Deegan.  Would appreciate any information.

Hi honey im from Thomastown still live there the deegans are still around are living in ladywell. i can get pics of the street if you want. let us know.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: olien on Wednesday 29 June 11 20:53 BST (UK)
Ellen O'Neill was my aunt. We knew her as Auntie Nell. My father Michael and his siblings also lived in the mall house shown. Give me an update on how far you've got and we' ll take it from there.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Jerpointlad on Tuesday 05 July 11 07:04 BST (UK)
Thomastown and surrounding area is awash with O'Neill cousins, being one myself. The photo of the house is, I think, in the Friars Hill / Jerpoint area just a few fields away from the Viaduct bridge shown in the other photo. I know the family living there now have been there for over 50 years. Before that I think Harry Pinchen lived there - not sure of the spelling. I think he moved to England in the 1930's. He did correspond with the Power family in Grennan over many years and I understand he sent over recordings of his life and experiences of living in Thomastown.
Is this of any use? Perhaps we should mobilise the "cousins"!
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Penny P on Tuesday 05 July 11 09:15 BST (UK)
Hi

My mother was Mary O'Neill and her father was James O'Neil b 1896.  She was born in the house  in Grennan in 1923 (where the O'Neills still live) but moved to England when she was very young.  Grandmother was Johanna (nee Doyle).
Ellen would have been my grandfather's mother I think.

The man with the horse is Tom Murphy - he used to work at Mount Juliet I think.  He moved with his wife Betty, their son Jim, daugher in law Maisie and the two grandchildren Tom and Valerie to Birmingham in England and then on to Canada many years ago.  Tom lived to be 104 and was still playing golf in his 90s.  Sadly Jim passed away some years ago.

Thomastown is awash with our cousins and they are all very knowledgeable about the family history.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Penny P on Tuesday 05 July 11 09:35 BST (UK)
A "PS" from my earlier message.
Nell would have been my grandfather's (Jim O'Neill) sister not mother.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: olien on Wednesday 06 July 11 14:16 BST (UK)
The horse in the picture is probably 'The Tetrarch' , nicknamed The Spotted Wonder, winner of a number of classics and buried in Ballylynch . Tom Murphy looked after him. Tom trained greyhounds also and had a taxi in Waterford in the late 50's, before moving to Birmingham. My sister, Joan, was in regular contact with Jim Murphy for many years before he died, and I also emailed him a few times.
 Nell O'Neill married Fred Gaskell, but there was not much contact between the families. It would be good to meet after all these years. Not sure if Tony (Gargoyle) followed up on his earlier contacts with Johnny Kelly c.07. I only became aware of the posting recently.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Penny P on Wednesday 06 July 11 14:37 BST (UK)
Thanks for the info.
I was also in regular contact with Jim Murphy in Canada right up until he passed away.  Hi dearth was very sad and somewhat unexpected.   Maisie was completely devastated.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Tuesday 12 July 11 12:49 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I'm another of the O'Neill cousins awash in Thomastown.  Hi Jerpointlad & Penny P.  Our Grandfather was James O'Neill b 1896.  The Elizabeth Kelly in the picture is our Great Grandmother. The house in the picture in the Mall still stands & Mrs O'Brien lived there up to a while ago.  Nobody lives there now.  The house in the picture in Friar's Hill, Jerpoint is I think now owned by the Roches. ;)  I grew up in Grennan just up the road but not at the top of the hill, the house further up. 
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Penny P on Tuesday 12 July 11 13:11 BST (UK)
Hi cousin!  I always remember the O'Brien house in The Mall.  I got bitten by a dog there many years ago.  I have never lived in Thomastown but visited every year from a small child and try to keep up with all the family.  The information gained from this website is very very helpful and interesting.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Tuesday 12 July 11 13:37 BST (UK)
Hi Penny,

It's occurred to me that you won't know who Norelass is, it's Therese (Tess), Larry's daughter.  Yeah Bobby sent me the link from this site, it's really interesting. I've just run up the road & have taken a picture of the house as it looks now, it's obviously been merged into one house from the two in the original.  Great to hear from you Penny & how's all the rest of the family keeping over the sea????
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: shanew147 on Tuesday 12 July 11 13:43 BST (UK)
just be careful not to mention details of living people here on RootsChats... it's not permitted. You can use the Personal Message system to send recent details, email addresses etc.

see : http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php


Leinster Moderator
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Tuesday 12 July 11 14:01 BST (UK)
OK will do. Soz
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: olien on Tuesday 12 July 11 19:19 BST (UK)
Hi Therese,
The old house  is not O'Briens. It was up near the end of the mall near where Joe Cole, Pilsworth's gardener used to live and near the pump. Not sure how much of that area survives. In the original photo, you can see the arched entrance to Pilsworth's garden on the LHS.
Your dad did a lot of research on the family tree and would love to see the fruits of his labour. I asked Larry about this at a wedding in Kilkenny last year.
Mick
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Wednesday 13 July 11 09:30 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Mick, yeah you are right now that I look at it.  Unfortunately where the house stood is all just fenced off now.  Nice to hear from you by the way.  The family tree that my father started I've heard about but never seen,  I'm going digging though so I'll let you know if I find anything.  I was wondering if you knew why none of the family John, Elizabeth & the kids are in either the 1901 or 1911 census.  I can find my grandmothers family in Wexford with no problem but as ever the O'Neill's are elusive. 

Rgds

Tess
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: olien on Wednesday 13 July 11 10:50 BST (UK)
.Hi Tess,
I also looked in the 2011 census but didn't follow up on the missing data. I did find my mother's entry in Inistiogue. dashing out door now , hols for 2 wks. Talk to you again
Mick
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Wednesday 13 July 11 14:01 BST (UK)
Hi.
First of all I would like to thank all of the people that have posted replies.
When I first started this topic in 2007 I did not receive any replies until 2 years later when Johnny (Jakel) posted and contacted me, I had almost given up hope of finding anything about my Grandmother Ellen O’Neill’s family.
It is so nice to find relatives.
The furthest back on the O’Neill family is John and Ellen my Great Great grand parents
In the 1901 Ireland census and his wife are recorded.
John Neill b 1835 Head, age 66, General Labourer, born in Co. Kilkenny
Ellen Neill (Kelly) b 1841 Wife, age 60, House Keeper, born in Limerick Cty.

In another 1901 Ireland census is their son John and Eliza my Great grand parents
John Neill b 1861, Head, age 40, Flour Miller, born in Co Kilkenny
Eliza Neill (Kelly) b 1867, Wife, age 33, House Keeper, born in Co Kilkenny
Ellen Neill b 16-Jun-1891, Daughter, age 9, Scholar, born in Co Kilkenny (Grandma)
John Neill b 1893, Son, age 8, Scholar, born in Co Kilkenny
James Neill b 1896, Son, age 5, Scholar, born in Co Kilkenny
Eliza Neill b 1899, Daughter, age 2, born in Co Kilkenny

In the 1911 census I cannot find John Neill and Ellen they may have passed on, but their son John and his children are recorded, John’s wife Elizabeth had died before this census about 1906.
John Neill b 1861, Head, age 50, Flour Miller, Widower, born in Co Kilkenny
John Neill b 1893, Son, age 18, Labourer, born in Co Kilkenny
James Neill b 1896, Son, age 15, Labourer, born in Co Kilkenny
Eliza Neill b 1899, Daughter, age 12, Domestic Servant, born in Co Kilkenny
Michael Neill, b 1902, Son, age 9, Scholar, born in Co Kilkenny
Christopher Neill b 1905, Son, age 6, Scholar, born in Co Kilkenny
Ellen Neill was not on the Ireland 1911 Census but I have found her on the 1911 England Census age 20 living at a School Named “The Oaks” in the Clapham Park area of London. I am not sure but I think that this was a boarding school run by the Catholic Church, maybe they were trained and used in the domestic service.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Wednesday 13 July 11 16:56 BST (UK)
Hi Gargoyle,

I've found a few pictures & I think one could definately be Ellen & Fred Gaskill,  the other I think that it may be Elizabeth Kelly O'Neill but I'm not sure as it could also be from the Doyle's my grandmothers side as she does look like her.  I think the older girl looks a bit like Ellen but could be wrong.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Wednesday 13 July 11 16:58 BST (UK)
Penny P,

I've found a couple of pictures for you too.  The first is of your mother Mary & the second is of David aged 7.  I thought you'd like them.

Tess
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Gargoyle on Thursday 14 July 11 10:19 BST (UK)
Hi Norelass,
I'm not sure if the top photo is of Elizabeth Kelly because the first child born to Elizabeth after Elizabeth (Betty) O'Neill would be Michael b 1902, if the child in the lady's arms is Michael age about 2 then Ellen would be 13 and Betty would be 5 and the girl on the left doesn't look to be 13 years old. Just a thought.

Tony
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Norelass on Thursday 14 July 11 13:08 BST (UK)
I agree Tony, 

I thought it looked like her & without Dad around to ask it's difficult to figure out who the photos I have are of.  I actually think it could be from my Grandmother's side and therefore the Doyles from Wexford.  am looking into it.   

The other picture I thought was Ellen & Fred, well purely because it looked like them but that's the trouble with the family resemblence, it could be anyone. 

Thanks so much for your help.

Tess
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dunmorelady on Tuesday 23 August 11 22:28 BST (UK)
Hello,

Re: The Mall
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: honeysucklerose on Tuesday 23 August 11 22:51 BST (UK)
ok
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dunmorelady on Tuesday 23 August 11 22:56 BST (UK)
Re: The Mall
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: honeysucklerose on Tuesday 23 August 11 22:58 BST (UK)
Hi again Dunmorelady.

Who on earth are you?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dunmorelady on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:07 BST (UK)
Hi again honeysucklerose,

Are you *


Dunmorelady

Moderator note : details removed for privacy
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: honeysucklerose on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:10 BST (UK)
Yeah that's me.  Just clicked who you are.     How's things and where are you now?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dunmorelady on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:17 BST (UK)
Hi *,

That's great to find you on here! 

I realised it must be you.

This is the first time I have found this website.   Hope you and your family are well!

Moderator Note : some details removed for privacy
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: honeysucklerose on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:19 BST (UK)
Yes, we are well thanks.   And your family?    What is your email address?   We can talk better that way.
Title: Re: The Mall.
Post by: dunmorelady on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:24 BST (UK)
Yes, my family are ok thankyou,  my email address is: *      It's funny because I was only thinking about you the other day!


(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: honeysucklerose on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:26 BST (UK)
I am now going to reply on your email address.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dunmorelady on Tuesday 23 August 11 23:33 BST (UK)
Ok, look forward to hearing from you.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: tealmist on Wednesday 14 September 11 21:06 BST (UK)
Hi honeysucklerose,

I'm also from Thomastown and would like to meet you, will send you my email addy.

Hi dunmorelady, we both know each other, don't we?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dunmorelady on Wednesday 14 September 11 22:10 BST (UK)
Hi Tealmist,

When did you live in Thomastown? You say you know me, can you tell me your name please?


Dunmorelady
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 14 September 11 22:14 BST (UK)
Just a reminder .. please use the Personal Message system to send recent details such as details of living people, or your email addresses.

New RootsChat posters require at least three posts to have full send and receive access to the PM system. See : http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php



Leinster Moderator
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: tealmist on Thursday 15 September 11 00:45 BST (UK)
Hi Tealmist,

When did you live in Thomastown? You say you know me, can you tell me your name please?


Dunmorelady

Hi Dunmonrlady,

Sent u a pm
Title: Re: Ladywell, Thomastown, Kilkenny
Post by: honeysucklerose on Saturday 17 September 11 20:21 BST (UK)
Thanks to all who have given me lots of info on Ladywell and Thomastown.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dark rosaleen on Friday 22 February 13 15:06 GMT (UK)
hi gargoyle,
any further details on the Mall article. Presume you are a cousin of mine and would be interested in following up our relatives on your side
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: drumgirl on Thursday 30 May 13 12:46 BST (UK)
I have only just joined  Rootschat  !  But I was thrilled to see a reference made to my Great Uncle ,  Tom Murphy  who looked after The Tetrarch for Major McCalmont.   He was such a lovely man.  His sister Ellen Butler I(nee Murphy) was my grandmother , and Uncle Tom came to stay with us on many occasions.   
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: drumgirl on Thursday 30 May 13 13:49 BST (UK)
Hi

My mother was Mary O'Neill and her father was James O'Neil b 1896.  She was born in the house  in Grennan in 1923 (where the O'Neills still live) but moved to England when she was very young.  Grandmother was Johanna (nee Doyle).
Ellen would have been my grandfather's mother I think.

The man with the horse is Tom Murphy - he used to work at Mount Juliet I think.  He moved with his wife Betty, their son Jim, daugher in law Maisie and the two grandchildren Tom and Valerie to Birmingham in England and then on to Canada many years ago.  Tom lived to be 104 and was still playing golf in his 90s.  Sadly Jim passed away some years ago.

Thomastown is awash with our cousins and they are all very knowledgeable about the family history.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dark rosaleen on Tuesday 04 June 13 23:32 BST (UK)
Hi Drumgirl,
I was interested to read your remarks re Uncle Tom Murphy. Tom was married to my father's sister, Betty O'Neill and they had one son Jim.Tom was a good friend of my father and  my mother  corresponded withTom after Aunty Betty died. When my mother died I continued to send cards at Christmas etc until Tom died. I was in contact with their son Jim via e-mail and following his death continued on the link with Maisie, his wife who came from Waterford. It was my brother who posted the item with the Tetrarch connection. I think Tom had a taxi at some stage?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: drumgirl on Wednesday 05 June 13 08:37 BST (UK)
Hi Dark Rosaleen,   Thank you so much for replying !   You have put some pieces in my jigsaw puzzle !  I met whom I called Aunty Betty and my great uncle Tom when they lived in Kidderminster , Birmingham , this must have been in the 1960's ,  although I never met Jim and Maisie , Uncle Tom talked of them a great deal. The Murphy's were quite a large family ,   Uncle Tom, told me many stories of his days as a young man looking after The Tetrarch and another horse , Tetratema !    Tom's father was called Jim Murphy and his mother Mary, I believe they hailed from Co Wexford ,  .  Tom had a further 8 siblings. Tom was the eldest , then Kathleen , Maggie , Ellen ( my grand mother)  but three brothers died as children, Arthur , George and James , them Mary ( known as Minie ) and Josephine was the youngest ,although I believe after Mary died , Toms father remarried and I think Josephine was a half sister , whom I never met ,   but   I met all my great aunts and Uncle Tom and Aunty Betty , they used to stay at my grand mothers quite alot, I loved them all to bits .  They are all deceased now of course ,  but they all lived to a ripe old age , mostly into their nineties !   The horse connection lived on,  Maggie ( Toms sister) married Tom  Delaney ,  they had a large family  and 4 of their sons , Paddy ( whom I knew very well and with great affection) Arthur , Jonny and I think George , became well known Jockey's of the 1950's ,  Paddy lived and worked on The New Market National stud, and I stayed with them often .  Paddy  Delaney died in December 2011 .  Just going back to the era of Tom  as a young child     I have found from the 1911 cencus that the Murphy Family lived at   dwelling 1  Shellumsrath  rural Kilkenny ,  Tom would was 11 at this time , from what I can find out from the census ,  it appeared to be a cottage dwelling with a cart house , a stable or 2 and a few outbuildings and a bit of land.  I am sure this place has long gone ,  but if anyone of your Neill (O'Neill) family can shed any light on where it was , or if it is still standing I should be most grateful.    My daughter Lisa , who is now 40 , also met Tom Murphy , she was around 6 years old when he last visited my Grandmother Ellen  before her death , and she was thrilled to see the photograph posted of him with The Tetrarch ,   .   An Aunt of mine ( Maureen) who was my grandmothers eldest child , kept in regular touch  with Tom also  after he went to Canada , and apparently he used to love to  sing to the senior citizens  at the homes he visited and was greatly admired and loved .   Thank you so much ,  There are so many wonderful memories for me relating to my child hood in the 50's and 60's  and meeting all these great aunts and uncles ,  I was born and live in Derbyshire in the UK ... 
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown PILSWORTH family
Post by: ChrissyWessell on Sunday 22 September 13 05:27 BST (UK)
Hi, I live in northern Canada and found this post with mention of the pilsworth family.  I am trying to research Robert Pilsworth 1806-1870 wife Ellen Bull, and William Thomas Pilsworth of Thomastown.  The family ran the mills there.  Any information on the Pilsworth family would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: dark rosaleen on Sunday 22 September 13 12:37 BST (UK)
Hello Chrissy,
Thank you for your question re Pilsworth family.
The following publications should be of interest to you as they contain lots of information re Grennan Mills and the Pilsworth family,
"In the Valley of the Nore" by Marilyn Silverman and P.H. Gulliver
"An Irish Working Class" by Marilyn Silverman

"Merchants and Shopkeepers" by Marilyn and P.H. Gulliver. all the publications refer to the Thomastown area.

Good Luck with your research.
Dark Rosaleen
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: 8mk on Thursday 25 February 21 18:29 GMT (UK)
Hi!  I’m hoping you’re all still out there and can help.

My relative Michael Kavanagh lived on The Mall/Maudlin with his wife Elizabeth (nee Brien) and their children:
John 1824
James 1837
Michael Jr. 1840
Mary 1843
Anne 1847
Catherine 1852

Michael Jr. is my ancestor and he emigrated to the U.S.   I’d love to find out why and how he did so.
I don’t know what happened to John, James or Anne, and would like to know more about what became of them.

Aunt Kate (Catherine) wrote to Michael Jr. ‘s son in the U.S as did ‘Minnie’ (possibly Mary or Mary’s daughter, also Mary).

I don’t know if Kate married.

I know that Mary married Michael Westerman (shoemaker) and they had 3 daughters.  We also know that 1 daughter, Mary, married postman Paddy Forde and another Bridget, married Peter Briody.  We believe the Briody’s moved away (Peter was in WWII and the family may have moved to Cavan or the UK?).

I’d like to know how Michael and Elizabeth came to live on The Mall and where their people came from, as well as more about why Michael Jr left and what became of his other siblings.
Any help would be much appreciated.
(Photo of Michael Jr. attached)
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: conahy calling on Friday 26 February 21 08:28 GMT (UK)
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/12317005/grenan-flour-mill-mill-street-grenan-thomastown-county-kilkenny

Link about Grennan flour mill.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 26 February 21 09:18 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat  :)


I know that Mary married Michael Westerman (shoemaker) and they had 3 daughters. 


Here's the link to the marriage in 1876.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11188/8100070.pdf

Births
Mary 1877
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/02995/2097860.pdf

Elizabeth 1879
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02904/2064226.pdf

Unknown male 1881
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02838/2040356.pdf

Unknown female 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02768/2015986.pdf

Bridget 1884
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02688/1990239.pdf

Unknown female 1887
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02535/1938979.pdf

Thomas 1890
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02427/1904059.pdf


KG



Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 26 February 21 09:35 GMT (UK)

We also know that 1 daughter, Mary, married postman Paddy Forde and another Bridget, married Peter Briody. 


Mary Westerman married Patrick Ford on 29th October 1917 in Thomastown RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09763/5543976.pdf

Elizabeth Westerman married Peter Briody on 19th September 1905 in Thomastown RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10176/5702631.pdf

Birth of Michael Briody 29th June 1911
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qct/


KG

Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 26 February 21 09:53 GMT (UK)

The Westermanns in the 1901 census.
Residents of a house 6 in Pike Street (Thomastown, Kilkenny)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kilkenny/Thomastown/Pike_Street/1455425/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000933210/

....and in 1911.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kilkenny/Thomastown/Thomastown/532030/


KG

Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: 8mk on Friday 26 February 21 10:12 GMT (UK)
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/12317005/grenan-flour-mill-mill-street-grenan-thomastown-county-kilkenny

Link about Grennan flour mill.

Thanks for this interesting link!  Is there a direct connection or is this for background info?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: 8mk on Friday 26 February 21 10:25 GMT (UK)

We also know that 1 daughter, Mary, married postman Paddy Forde and another Bridget, married Peter Briody. 


Mary Westerman married Patrick Ford on 29th October 1917 in Thomastown RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09763/5543976.pdf

Elizabeth Westerman married Peter Briody on 19th September 1905 in Thomastown RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10176/5702631.pdf

Birth of Michael Briody 29th June 1911
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qct/


KG

Thank you so much for all your links!  They provided info I didn't have and confirmed some connections I had guessed.  It seems that the Westermans kept in touch with my ancestor Michael (Mary, nee Kavanagh - head of household in your records- was his sister).  They continued to write to my great-grandfather James.  Two of the cards handmade by Minnie and Kate survive (one dated 1906).  Tracing them has been a bit easier as Westerman was unusual enough of a name for Thomastown. 

Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: 8mk on Friday 26 February 21 10:37 GMT (UK)
Hi!  I’m hoping you’re all still out there and can help.

My relative Michael Kavanagh lived on The Mall/Maudlin with his wife Elizabeth (nee Brien) and their children:
John 1824
James 1837
Michael Jr. 1840
Mary 1843
Anne 1847
Catherine 1852

Michael Jr. is my ancestor and he emigrated to the U.S.   I’d love to find out why and how he did so.
I don’t know what happened to John, James or Anne, and would like to know more about what became of them.

Aunt Kate (Catherine) wrote to Michael Jr. ‘s son in the U.S as did ‘Minnie’ (possibly Mary or Mary’s daughter, also Mary).

I don’t know if Kate married.

I know that Mary married Michael Westerman (shoemaker) and they had 3 daughters.  We also know that 1 daughter, Mary, married postman Paddy Forde and another Bridget, married Peter Briody.  We believe the Briody’s moved away (Peter was in WWII and the family may have moved to Cavan or the UK?).

I’d like to know how Michael and Elizabeth came to live on The Mall and where their people came from, as well as more about why Michael Jr left and what became of his other siblings.
Any help would be much appreciated.
(Photo of Michael Jr. attached)

Thanks so much to both of you who replied!

I'm still rather stuck on the Kavanaghs.  From the information I have, I'm fairly certain I have the right Michael & Elizabeth Kavanagh on The Mall.  Michael moved to the U.S. and Mary married Michael Westerman. I can't find any information on the others.

Does anyone know what became of the others?

I'm also interested to know where Elizabeth and Michael came from (and their ancestral genealogy if any exists, including the Briens).

Again, also would love to know more about the context and in particular stories of the family....why Michael emigrated, how Mary came to marry a shopkeeper.

I would note over the years Kavanagh has been recorded in the most interesting ways, but at that time: Kavanagh, Kavanaugh and finally Cavanaugh were all used.  Also Elizabeth Brien may also have been Bryan or Byrne.

Thanks!

Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 26 February 21 10:39 GMT (UK)
We believe the Briody’s moved away (Peter was in WWII and the family may have moved to Cavan or the UK?).

Peter Briody was a policeman (probably constable in R.I.C.) at his marriage, and at the time of his son's birth, he was stationed in Tipperary. He was probably too old to have served in WW2, because he died in 1948, aged 75, at Pipe Street, Thomastown. The informant was his brother-in-law Patrick Forde. He was described as a RIC pensioner.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1948/04568/4207077.pdf

His wife Elizabeth, of Pipe Street Thomastown died in the County Hospital, Kilkenny in 1950.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1950/04530/4193818.pdf


KG



Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: 8mk on Friday 26 February 21 11:13 GMT (UK)
We believe the Briody’s moved away (Peter was in WWII and the family may have moved to Cavan or the UK?).

Peter Briody was a policeman (probably constable in R.I.C.) at his marriage, and at the time of his son's birth, he was stationed in Tipperary. He was probably too old to have served in WW2, because he died in 1948, aged 75, at Pipe Street, Thomastown. The informant was his brother-in-law Patrick Forde. He was described as a RIC pensioner.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1948/04568/4207077.pdf

His wife Elizabeth, of Pipe Street Thomastown died in the County Hospital, Kilkenny in 1950.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1950/04530/4193818.pdf


KG
Hi KG - you are a wealth of information!  The information I have I pieced together about 15 years ago from documents I inherited (only just getting back to it now), searches that were available at the time, and a few enquiries I made back then, some of which was anecdotal oral history from a lovely man (who was in his 90's and has since passed) that remembered the Briody family. He gave me quite a few facts that helped me put things together, WWII it seems was incorrect, but the connection to Paddy Forde, thanks to your help, is confirmed. :)
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown PILSWORTH family
Post by: conahy calling on Friday 26 February 21 12:44 GMT (UK)
https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/12317005/grenan-flour-mill-mill-street-grenan-thomastown-county-kilkenny

Link about Grennan flour mill.

Thanks for this interesting link!  Is there a direct connection or is this for background info?

Hi, I live in northern Canada and found this post with mention of the pilsworth family.  I am trying to research Robert Pilsworth 1806-1870 wife Ellen Bull, and William Thomas Pilsworth of Thomastown.  The family ran the mills there.  Any information on the Pilsworth family would be greatly appreciated.
   
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: OPPO on Thursday 10 June 21 03:59 BST (UK)
Hello,

My Grandfather was Michael BRIODY, the son of Peter BRIODY and Elizabeth WESTERMAN.  Elizabeth, my Great Grandmother was the daughter of Mary KAVANAGH. Mary the daughter of Michael KAVANAGH and Elizabeth "Betty" BRIEN.

Peter BRIODY, (originally from Co. Cavan), served as a Constable in the RIC from 1891 completing 25 years.  He and Elizabeth WESTERMAN had two sons, Patrick and Michael.  The BRIODY who served in WW2 was my Grandfather, Michael BRIODY.  He served in the Irish Guards from 1934, took part in the 1940 Norwegian Campaign then volunteered for the Airborne Forces and became the RSM of the 1st Battalion, Glider Pilot Regiment. He served in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, then at the Battle of Arnhem, where he was wounded and awarded an MBE by the British Army, and the Dutch Bronze Lion by the Netherlands. He left the Army as a Major in 1972.

Happy to exchange information with any family members researching these branches. I've had a little more luck with the WESTERMAN family.

Thanks...
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 10 June 21 13:21 BST (UK)

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

I know that Mary married Michael Westerman (shoemaker) and they had 3 daughters.  We also know that 1 daughter, Mary, married postman Paddy Forde and another Bridget Elizabeth, married Peter Briody.  We believe the Briody’s moved away (Peter was in WWII and the family may have moved to Cavan or the UK?).

8mk was last online here in February, but if you make one more post you can then use the PM system to contact them.

My Grandfather was Michael BRIODY, the son of Peter BRIODY and Elizabeth WESTERMAN. 

The BRIODY who served in WW2 was my Grandfather, Michael BRIODY. 

Great information about your grandfather  8)
Have you applied for his service record?


KG



Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: OPPO on Friday 11 June 21 00:37 BST (UK)

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

I know that Mary married Michael Westerman (shoemaker) and they had 3 daughters.  We also know that 1 daughter, Mary, married postman Paddy Forde and another Bridget Elizabeth, married Peter Briody.  We believe the Briody’s moved away (Peter was in WWII and the family may have moved to Cavan or the UK?).

8mk was last online here in February, but if you make one more post you can then use the PM system to contact them.

My Grandfather was Michael BRIODY, the son of Peter BRIODY and Elizabeth WESTERMAN. 

The BRIODY who served in WW2 was my Grandfather, Michael BRIODY. 

Great information about your grandfather  8)
Have you applied for his service record?


KG

Yes, we have all copies of his service record as well as numerous photographs of him during his service in the Irish Guards and Glider Pilot Regiment.

We also have some records from his father Peter's time in the RIC.

More about the WESTERMAN's, another daughter of Michael WESTERMAN and Mary KAVANAGH, Bridget "Bridie" Mary WESTERMAN, (1884-1954), served in France during WW1 with the British Red Cross as a Nurse.  She went in 1914 and was awarded the 1914 Star, British War and Victory medals.  She married a soldier from the Royal Engineers by the name of Victor FAUVELLE, an Englishman, and their son Michael F|AUVELLE served as an officer with the South Lancashire Regiment in WW2.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 11 June 21 12:38 BST (UK)

Quote
Bridget "Bridie" Mary WESTERMAN.........

She married a soldier from the Royal Engineers by the name of Victor FAUVELLE, an Englishman, and their son Michael F|AUVELLE served as an officer with the South Lancashire Regiment in WW2.

Marriage Jan-Mar 1919
Fauvelle Victor E to Westermann Brigid M       Marylebone    1a  1286

Birth Jul-Sep 1920
Fauvelle    Michael H      Westermann      Paddington    1a  66




Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: OPPO on Friday 11 June 21 17:45 BST (UK)

Quote
Bridget "Bridie" Mary WESTERMAN.........

She married a soldier from the Royal Engineers by the name of Victor FAUVELLE, an Englishman, and their son Michael F|AUVELLE served as an officer with the South Lancashire Regiment in WW2.

Marriage Jan-Mar 1919
Fauvelle Victor E to Westermann Brigid M       Marylebone    1a  1286

Birth Jul-Sep 1920
Fauvelle    Michael H      Westermann      Paddington    1a  66

Thanks, that's them!  I've sent a PM to my distant relative above so hopefully we'll be able to exchange information. One of the references my Grandfather had when joining the Irish Guards was Victor FAUVELLE.
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 11 June 21 18:17 BST (UK)

Fingers crossed 🤞 that 8mk has notifications for replies turned on, sees your PM and replies.

If you need further help, just ask.


Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: OPPO on Friday 11 June 21 19:13 BST (UK)

Fingers crossed 🤞 that 8mk has notifications for replies turned on, sees your PM and replies.

If you need further help, just ask.

I may do as I believe this is the same person that contacted me on Ancestry but unfortunately they had their settings not to receive messages so I was unable to reply.  I had hoped they'd be available on this site but they may have made the same settings?
Title: Re: The Mall, Thomastown
Post by: conahy calling on Monday 11 October 21 22:30 BST (UK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlczeELbhE

You tube clip showing images of Thomastown.