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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Lucy2 on Friday 19 October 07 02:50 BST (UK)
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Hello
Would be most grateful if someone could help me with 1841 / 1851 / 1861 Gloucester look ups please ?
Seeking: John RICHINGS - born Bristol - circa 1839
~ his father was (also) John RICHINGS, occupation, butcher, mother's name unknown. (Possibly too, a sibling named "Thomas" ? )
[RICHINGS is the surname I have on death cert. but there are seemingly other spellings - "Richins" / "Richens" / "Ritchings" ]
Many thanks
Lu :)
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Hi Lu
I have found a John Richings in 1841 with parents John (Butcher) and Mary but they are living in Wotton under Edge Gloucestershire. John is not with them in 1851, he is at school.
Can't see a Thomas as sibling and do you know if John was definitely born in Bristol?
Cazay
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Wotton Under Edge looks to be about 37km from Bristol, not that far in our terms.
I will post the details if you think this family could be a match
Cazay
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Hi Cazay :)
Many thanks. The 1841 info looks promising.
Best (and only) information I have on John (b.1839), comes from his New Zealand death certificate (1898) ~ "Born Bristol". [An inquest into his accidental death, describes him as a "native of Gloucestershire" as does cemetery info. As I "read it", the place "Bristol" at various times in its history, came under the administration of both Gloucestershire and Somerset .... Gloucester seemed my likely starting place].
On IGI, have just found this marriage - John RICHINGS - Mary COOK - 20 April 1838 - Wotton Under Edge, Gloucester - possibly the 1841 people ?
The "Thomas - sibling", I "popped into this search" as the name features strongly amongst decendants ~ and John (1839), a creature of some mystery, seems to have at times, used the name "Thomas" in place of his apparent given name of John ?
John's death cert. gives "Years in NZ - 28" - (arrival circa 1870 - and I'm guessing possibly via Australia (VIC) ). At age approx. 22 in 1861 he's probably not going to show up in UK census ?
Yes, please, would very much welcome all the information you've been able to find.
Grateful thanks again.
Lu :)
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Some of our ancestors don't leave the obvious trails and it is only the gathering of as much information as possible that we try to place them in our trees.
I will post the 1841 and 1851 details and in time you may be able to definitely say that they are the right family.
1841, Long Street Wotton Under Edge Gloucestershire - Reg District Dursley
H0107/348 f26 p5
John Richings 24 Butcher
Mary 19
John 2
Samuel 8 mths (all born in county)
Mary's age looks to be 19 on the image
Cazay
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1851, Woodmancote (The Agricultural and Commercial Foundation School), Dursley Gloucestershire
H0107/1958 f378 p4
John Richings 11 Wotton Gloucestershire Schoolboy
Cazay
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1851, Long Street Wotton Under Edge Gloucestershire
H0107/1958 f121 p22
John Richings 33 Wotton under Edge Butcher
Mary 29 "
Samuel 10 " Scholar
William 9 " "
Elizabeth 7 " "
Richard 5 "
Morris 3 "
Mary 1 "
Harriett Hunt 18 " House Servant
Emma Webb 15 " "
Cazay
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Lu, this John Richings is in the 1861 census
Looks like wife Sarah with him, does this fit your John?
Cazay
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Hi Lu
Just found something interesting in 1871
A Sarah Ann Richings with daughter Elizabeth 9 Wotton
In married or single column has - husband left 7 years
What do you think?
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1861 Long Street Wotton under Edge Gloucestershire
RG9/1750 f23 p7
John Blizzard 46 Wotton under Edge Butcher (Master employing 1 man)
Esther 47 "
Jane 19 "
John 16 " Assistant Butcher
Esther 11 " Scholar
Emily Evans 14 Tresham Gloucestershire House servant
John Richings Visitor 21 Wotton under Edge Butcher
Sarah A Richings 18 Visitor " Butchers wife
1871, Orchard Street Wotton under Edge Gloucestershire
RG10/2591 f21 p3
Sarah Ann Richings 28 (husband left 7 years) Wotton under Edge School Mistress
Elizabeth Jane 9 dau Thornbury Gloucestershire Scholar
Harriet Howell 14 Winterbourne Gloucestershire Domestic servant
Cazay
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Snip
On IGI, have just found this marriage - John RICHINGS - Mary COOK - 20 April 1838 - Wotton Under Edge, Gloucester - possibly the 1841 people ?
Snip
Lu :)
Lu,
Having to sort the wheat from the chaff in the complete IGI you will find it easier to search by place then names and only be presented with data extracted from church records by using
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm#PageTitle but bear in mind that some extracted data has been deleted from the batches given.
You might also find Parloc - free parish locator programme - useful too. Get it via
http://www.parloc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parlocdl.html
Regards
Chas
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Hi Cazay :)
WOW ! Thank you so very much.
At first I was a little sceptical .... the names didn't make a lot of sense. Then, the "agricultural school" sounded a real possibility. But you were SO CLEVER to have found the poor deserted wife and child ... and yes, it makes an awful lot of sense !
I feel pretty sure this is the John RICHINGS I'm after. "His" death cert. shows "NO marriages" ~ probably not unusual ? The wife and child left behind in Gloucester, probably accounts for him not "marrying" the mother of his New Zealand-born children and might also explain why the childrens' births were not registered.
A brilliant effort Cazay ... and thanks again.
Kind regards
Lu :)
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Hi Chas
Many thanks for those links ... I'll certainly try them.
Kind regards
Lu :)
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I've been following Lu's original thread on this family at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,259529
This development is absolutely fascinating :)
Cazay, Brilliant work!
Lots of the people/events mentioned can be traced on FreeBMD.
Wotton under Edge, incidentally, is in the Dursley registration district.
The birthplace of 'Bristol' as given on John's death cert is not a problem - it was very common for birthplaces in the Antipodes to be rendered as the nearest big town which the Registrar had heard of!
John RICHINGS m Sarah Ann BLIZARD, Dursley, Mar q 1860
Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS, birth, Thornbury, Sep q 1861
?Also a John Blizard RICHINGS, birth, Thornbury, Mar q 1864
Sarah Ann re-married, Dursley, Jun q 1875 to William Henry ARMITAGE (she is listed as Sarah Ann BLIZARD and as Sarah Ann RICHINGS) and had several children.
(Presumably first husband John had effectively been declared dead once he'd been gone for over 7 years.)
The ARMITAGE family is in the 1881 census (on FamilySearch) in Wotton under Edge. William was the Manager of an Elastic Works; stepdaughter Elizabeth Jane was working as his Assistant. Children of William & Sarah at that stage were Edith A 5, Amy E 3, and Florence R 1.
Lu, It was fortunate that you found that LDS submission re the marriage of John RICHINGS & Mary COOK. I can't find it on FreeBMD - perhaps because it was early days for statutory registration and people hadn't really become used to registration.
However, appropriate births in Dursley for children of John snr & Mary (as mentioned in the censuses) can all be found on FreeBMD.
Extracted records in the online IGI for Wotton under Edge finish early unfortunately (as can be seen from the Hugh Wallis site). And those records seem to reflect all the Wotton-under-Edge filmed records held by the LDS (from the Library catalogue on FamilySearch).
The LDS submission looks reliable with its precise date - and precise dates are provided throughout that LDS batch.
Incidentally, a brother of your John (from the 1851 census) was Morris RICHINGS - on FreeBMD as Mau___ ). A search for RICHINGS in Gloucestershire on A2A at:
http://www.a2a.org.uk/
finds (Ref D4890/4/17, date 1881):
Sale notice, stock-in-trade, furniture and effects of Maurice Richings, Wotton-under-Edge, nurseryman and grocer, bankrupt
:(
Cheers,
JAP
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Lu
More information here on your Richings family
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/
John Richings daughter's married name was Jotcham and there is also mention of John Blizard Richings (DOUBLE BARRELL SURNAME)
If you would like any other census details just ask :)
I read the whole 5 pages on the Australia board...... :o A lot to take in at first but you have made great progress and now have a new family line to pursue in England.
You must be having a lot of late nights lately ;D
At least John was honest enough to keep his original surname and now you know why he was sometimes Thomas and sometimes John............trying to cover his tracks after running off and leaving his wife and child/children.
I hope, after all this that you find his arrival details...........you certainly deserve it, after all the runaround.
Cazay
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Hi Cazay,
In my last post, I put a question mark against the Thornbury birth from FreeBMD of John Blizard RICHINGS, Mar quarter 1864. He seemed very likely to be a child of John/Thomas & Sarah Ann but didn't appear in the 1871 or 1881 census with Sarah Ann so I wondered whether he might have died young though I couldn't see a relevant death ... However he appears in the 1881 on FamilySearch; John Blizard RICHINGS, age 17, a Butcher b Thornbury, in Wotton under Edge with his maternal Grandfather, John BLIZARD (yet another Butcher).
Mary Louisa (birth December quarter 1849), a sister of John/Thomas, is in the 1881 as Mary Louisa JOTCHAM with her husband John and child.
From FreeBMD, marriages of the children of John/Thomas & Sarah Ann seem to be:
*RICHINGS Elizabeth Jane, Dursley, Sept quarter, 1883; there's a Frederick John JOTCHAM on the same page.
*RICHINGS John Blizard, Dursley, Dec quarter, 1885; there's an Elizabeth Jane PERRETT on the same page.
JAP
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Just a thought on John's parents marriage registration. There's a slightly odd page of marriage entries for Dursley in june qtr 1838 vol 11 pg 329. There is a Mary Cook on the page and there is an Ann Richings. But, there are 5 female and 3 male names on the page. The transcription is from a type-written page, so possibly an error made when the original hand-written GRO index page was typed up?
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Hello there Lucy
I had a look at this thread last night and copied down a few details and then looked up them this morning and when went to post to see that Cazay had allready found the marriage etc but as I had printed down the census details I thought I would add them in. I was pleased to see that Cazay had also come up with the same marriage details I would say like me she had trailed through a few then a look at the census trying to match up by the birthplace etc. I know that Cazay will not be annoyed at my posting the census information ;D
on the 1891 Census
at 83 Brick Lane, wotton Under Edge, Gloucestershire.
RG12 Folio 32 page 11
Fred Jatcham 32 Painter born Wotton under Edge
Elizabeth " 30 Wife born Thornbury, Gloucestshire
Fred 7 son born Wotton unde Edge
William 5 1/2 born """"""""""
Herbert 2 born """"""""""""""""""
A look at the actual page the name is JOTCHAM
on the 1901 census he (Fred) is a House Painter.
With regard to John Blizzard Richings he is on the census's up to 1901 a prolific breeding couple 8 children up to then :o
kind regards Jenn
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A few thoughts.
Hi osprey, I'd seen that marriage page and wondered. It was/is tempting to think that Ann RICHINGS was a transcription error for John RICHINGS made when the index was initially compiled - but, apart from buying the certificate ::) , there didn't seem to be any way to check it out further.
Hi All, We have been assuming(!) that John/Thomas abandoned his wife and children. As Valda is always reminding RootsChatters, assumptions can be dangerous. It's always possible that Sarah Ann evicted him. Or perhaps there was a good reason why he left (e.g. might Sarah Ann have taken up with someone else)? OK, very probably John/Thomas did simply abscond but ...
Hi Cazay, I've checked through the WorldConnect trees for the family (don't know why one suggested a double barrelled name - which there isn't; it's just Sarah Ann's maiden surname being used as a middle name for her son). There seem to be four submitters (I might take the liberty of contacting them and alerting them to the RC threads). Not surprisingly, some submissions are more complete than others. Some do go down to living descendants of John RICHINGS & Mary COOK but, unfortunately, none go back beyond that couple.
Hi All, as I have spent time going through all the WorldConnect stuff, I thought it might be useful for my own benefit (so I don't have to go checking back and forth) to list all the children of John & Mary and what happened to them (from census details for the family etc posted earlier, from pointers from the WorldConnect trees, from FreeBMD, from FamilySearch especially the 1881 census, etc). All events Gloucestershire unless otherwise stated. And BDMs would need confirmation from certificates.
I will do this in a separate post.
JAP
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The separate post :)
All events Gloucestershire unless otherwise stated.
The BDMs would need confirmation from certificates.
John RICHINGS m Mary COOK, 20 Apr 1838, Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire (LDS submission in IGI)
They had:
1. John RICHINGS, birth June quarter 1839, Dursley
This is the John (sometimes known as Thomas) who ended up in New Zealand refer: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,259529
John RICHINGS m Sarah Ann BLIZARD, March quarter 1860, Dursley
John & Sarah Ann have been found in the 1861 census with Sarah Ann's parents.
Sarah Ann has been found in the 1871 census with her daughter Elizabeth Jane; she states that her husband has been absent for 7 years.
Sarah Ann (BLIZARD) RICHINGS m William Henry ARMITAGE, June quarter 1875, Dursley (her first husband John was still alive in NZ - she may not have known this); they had children.
John & Sarah Ann had:
*Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS, September quarter 1861, Thornbury
Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS has been found in the 1871 census with her mother, Sarah Ann.
Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS has been found in the 1881 census with her mother and step-father, William ARMITAGE, and their family.
Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS m Frederick John JOTCHAM, September quarter, 1883
*John Blizard RICHINGS, birth March quarter 1864, Thornbury
John Blizard RICHINGS has been found in the 1881 census with his maternal grandfather, John BLIZARD
John Blizard RICHINGS m Elizabeth Mary PERRETT, December quarter 1885, Dursley
2. Samuel RICHINGS, birth December quarter 1840, Dursley
Probably the Samuel RICHINGS, marriage December quarter 1860, Bristol; an Elizabeth FOWLER is on the same page.
Samuel RICHINGS probably the death, age 32, March quarter 1873, Dursley
Widow Elizabeth probably the Elizabeth RITCHENS (sic), widow, innkeeper in Wotton under Edge in the 1881 census, with her children.
3. William RICHINGS, birth March quarter 1842, Dursley
Possibly the William RICHINGS, marriage, December quarter 1866, Chipping Sodbury; a Marianne HOPKINS is on the same page.
In the 1881 census, there is a William RICHINGS, farmer of 110 acres in Wotton under Edge, with wife Marianne, two sons and a niece (Louisa Ann, probably the daughter of his brother Samuel).
4. Elizabeth RICHINGS, birth September quarter 1843, Dursley
Perhaps/probably the Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS marriage, June quarter 1863, Dursley; a David PERRETT on the same page. There is also an 1870 marriage for an Elizabeth Jane RICHINGS - two females but only one male on the page (not a PERRETT).
There is a Harrold PERRETT, 11, b North Nibley, grandson of John RICHINGS & Mary (COOK) in the 1881. And a birth for Harold PERRETT, June quarter 1870, Dursley (which includes North Nibley)
I have not found Elizabeth in the 1881.
5. Richard RICHINGS, birth September quarter 1846, Dursley
Possibly the Richard RICHINGS who married in Bath, Somerset-shire, September quarter 1876; Amelia RICHINGS/Amelia Richings COOK on the same page.
In the 1881 census in Wotton under Edge, there is a Richard RICHINGS, 36, b Wotton under Edge, Farmer of 12 acres with wife Amelia 24 and son John 3.
6. Maurice RICHINGS, birth June quarter 1848, Dursley
Maurice RICHINGS married Fanny BIDDLE, December quarter 1874, Dursley.
They are in the 1881 - no children with them. Maurice a Grocer in Wotton under Edge.
Maurice has been found in A2A - an 1881 bankruptcy record.
7. Mary Louisa RICHINGS, birth December quarter 1849, Dursley
Mary Louisa RICHINGS married John JOTCHAM, September quarter 1876.
They are in the 1881 census in Wotton under Edge - John a House Decorator.
Mary Louisa probably the Mary Louisa JOTCHAM, death, age 68, June quarter 1917, Bristol
8. Albert RICHINGS, birth March quarter 1855, Dursley
Albert is in the 1881 census as son, with parents John & Mary (COOK) in Wotton under Edge
Albert RICHINGS married Blanche Maud TILLEY, March quarter 1889, Dursley
?9. Harry RICHINGS, birth September quarter 1860, Dursley - might be a son of John & Mary
Is Harry in the 1871 with John & Mary? Yes, see later post from Cazay.
A Harry RICHINGS age 20 died December quarter 1880, Dursley.
Regards,
JAP
(e.&o.e. - pls let me know of such)
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Hi all
Jenn, no worries with census info, post away
Jap, I could see that John Blizard Richings was there with a question mark as the tree owner hadn't gone into the research in depth, mainly relying on census information and of course quite a few gaps there as well. Just wanted to let Lu know that it was there to have a look at on a general scale.
Also, agree that certificates would confirm many things here but costly of course.
Lu, do you have an LDS centre near to you over there? Ordering the parish records for Wotton under Edge would contain many of this family's births, deaths and marriages and with so many events happening in Wotton under Edge you could be sure to find most of them. There is of course Elizabeth Jane Richings birth being Thornbury which would require another film.
I recently spent ten dollars for two films, from which I gained three marriage records and a couple of baptisms/deaths.........a lot cheaper than ordering the certificates.
The IGI is helpful but still needs to be checked against the original records as errors can occur when they are being transcribed (found this for one of my lot).
Posting the 1871 information where John Blizard Richings is living with his grandparents, John and Esther.........
Long Street Wotton under Edge Gloucestershire
John Blizard 56 Wotton under Edge Butcher
Esther 57 Alderley Gloucestershire
John Blizard unm 25 Wotton under Edge Butchers son
John Richings g/son 7 Thornbury Scholar
Emily Vines 16 Combe, Wotton under Edge Domestic Servant
RG10/2591 f20 p1 & 2
Confirming Harry, child 9, Jap's posting.........
1871 Long Street Wotton under Edge Gloucestershire
John Richings 53 Wotton under Edge Butcher
Mary 49 "
Richard unm 23 " Butcher
Mary Louisa unm 21 "
Albert 11 " "
Harry 10 "
Mary Ann Bye 17 " Domestic Servant
RG10/2591 f22 p5
Cazay :)
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Hi Cazay :) Re: Your post # 14
Very many thanks for the link to worldconnect - wow !
I just can't believe how much information is "out there".
Yes, late nights indeed .... but so many very special and talented people contributing .... I couldn't possibly nip off to bed, knowing they were beavering away !
Obviously, at the speed the info is being posted, I'm struggling just a little to absorb it all ... but I certainly 'aint complaining! And, what a wacky family I've inherited ! Even my maternal grandmother was unknown to me (... and to her own 2 small daughters as well - she waltzed off into the sunset one day, and that was that). Hmmm ... now having discovered HER Richings mob ... perhaps "grandmother" did the right thing ?
Thanks too for your kind offer re: further census look-ups.
Your help is so much aprreciated.
Kind regards
Lu :)
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...
Lu, do you have an LDS centre near to you over there? Ordering the parish records for Wotton under Edge would contain many of this family's births, deaths and marriages and with so many events happening in Wotton under Edge you could be sure to find most of them. There is of course Elizabeth Jane Richings birth being Thornbury which would require another film.
I recently spent ten dollars for two films, from which I gained three marriage records and a couple of baptisms/deaths.........a lot cheaper than ordering the certificate
I have a feeling that I might already have posted this ...
Wotton under Edge films of parish records seem to finish ca 1812 (from the Hugh Wallis site and the LDS Family History Library catalogue). Which would mean that the films wouldn't help ...
Obviously later registers do exist for Wotton under Edge - as shown by the submitted LDS record for the April 1838 marriage of John RICHINGS & Mary COOK - but apparently they haven't been filmed by the LDS?
Cheers,
JAP
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Hi JAP
..... sorry I didn't manage to respond earlier to this ('tis 2.15 am ... was just heading to bed ... just had to have another peek at incoming messages)!
Thanks, I had looked at Hugh Wallis site but just hadn't quite got around to LDS catalogue.
(Have currently got an order in with LDS for Kent parish registers, another search .... have been waiting over 4 weeks for it ...grrr ! But hey, I've sure got plenty to keep me busy meanwhile .... haven't I) ?
Cheers Lu :)
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Hi Lu and everyone :)
What a fascinating thread! Have a couple of marriages from the index to throw into the pot
Thomas Richings + Mary Cousins 30th December 1822 Wotton under Edge
William Ritchings + Elizabeth Blunstone 13th December 1824 Wotton under Edge
Regards
Susan
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Hi Susan :)
Yes, fascinating indeed!
But of course the result wouldn't have been achieved without the wonderful input of so many brilliant people ... I'm truly "blown away" by the ongoing interest and support!
Very many thanks for your contribution - (I spy "another" Thomas - he looks interesting) ?
Kind regards
Lu :)
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Hello there Lucy
more census information for you
1891 Census
RG12/2029
Living at 47 Lower Lodge Ozleworth, Gloucestershire England
John Richings 27 head Butcher born Thornbury, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Richings 26 wife Nibley "
Harry Richings 4 son Wotton under Edge
Mabel Richings 2 dau Newark, Glouc
Harold Richings 8mths son Newark "
Frederick Blackwell 13 servant Horton "
Laura Walker 13 servant domestic Worton "
Comment yes no error Harry and Harold!
1901 Census
RG12/2414
living at 52 Long Street Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
John richings 37 head Butcher Employer born Thornbury Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Richings 36 wife Nibley, Gloucestershire
Harry " 14 son Wotton under Edge "
Mabel 12 dau Newark
Harold 10 son newark
John 8 son Wotton under edge
Marjory 6 dau "
Mary 4 "
Horace 1 '
Norah 7 months "
Alice Berks 13 servant domestic hawksebury
I also noted that living next to door to this family at no 53 was a Fanna Blizard widow aged 51 born WUe and her daughter Agnes aged 12 born WUE
Kind Regrds Jenn
ps don't you just love the names Nibley Ozelworth etc
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Hi Jenn :)
WOW ! Census info - that's magnificent - thank you so very much.
"Harold" and "Harry" ... bit of hoot ... often wonder, given the rapidity with which some of these people "popped" out their babies, whether they were just too exhausted to come up with some more original names? Still, it is often by these naming patterns, that we can place people in our families?
Good on you Jenn for picking up on "Widow Blizard" living next door (1901) .... Well done ! Thanks again.
Kind regards LU :)
PS Nibley Ozelworth ... yes gorgeous!
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Lu :D
Information re Jap posting #19 for Elizabeth Richings (Child 4)
1871 Haw Street Wooton under Edge Gloucestershire
RG10/2591 f16 p 22 & 23
David Perrett 28 Wotton under Edge Wine & Spirit Merchant
Elizabeth J 27 "
Mabel A 3 North Nibley
Harold 11 months Wotton under Edge
Mary A Poole 22 Coates Wilts Gen Serv Domestic
Ester Sherman 20 North Nibley Nurse Domestic
Death: David Perrett age 33 Dec 1875 Dursley Vol 6a p183
Death: Mabel Agnes Perrett age 4 Dec 1872 Dursley Vol 6a p135
Marriage: Elizabeth Jane Perrett Dec 1879 Dursley Vol 6a p390
on same page - William Henry Hughes/George Gabb
Can't find them in 1881 either
1891 28a Wharf Rd St Luke London
RG12/231 f32 p54
William Henry Hughes 40 Thames Oxfordshire Manager Aerated Water
Elizabeth Jane 44 Wooton Gloucestershire
1901 58 Allerton Rd Stoke Newington London
RG13/204 f72 p20
William H Hughes 50 Thame Oxfordshire Mineral Water Manufacturer Employer (Managing Director Ltd Coy)
Elizabeth 55 Wotton under Edge
Arthur H son 20 " Clerk (Articled to Incorporated Accountant)
Fanny Fuller 21 Stone Kent Gen Serv Domestic
In 1891 Arthur 10 is living with his uncle - William Richings and wife Marianna in Wotton under Edge
Cazay
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Hi Cazay :)
Thank you so much for another of your tremendous efforts - that's great information. (Looks like Elizabeth Jane was doing rather well for herself )?
Just a wee query with the "Mabel A. Perrett - aged 3 - in 1871" and, the "Mabel Agnes Perrett - died aged 4 - Dec 1879 - Dursley - Vol 69 p135" ? Same person ?
Much appreciated Cazay - thanks again.
Regards Lu :)
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Hi Lu :)
Sorry about that...........my typo.............had Mabel's death date written close to Elizabeth's marriage info 8)
Have now corrected the error
Cazay ;D
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In 1881 might Elizabeth be the Elizabeth HUGHES, 33 (yes, I think she was fibbing about her age on the censuses - younger husband), born Wotton under Edge, Head of Household, Manageress of a Club in Bristol, Married but no sign of a husband.
And perhaps William could be William HUGHES, 30, a passenger on the 'SS City of Brussels' in Liverpool - marital status not recorded, birthplace given only as England.
Can't see Arthur (Arthur Henry HUGHES, birth, Sep qtr 1880, Dursley).
JAP
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Many thanks CAZAY
regards LU :)
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Hello again :)
Would be grateful of another census look-up if someone is able to help please ?
> 1871
Samuel RICHINGS - b. 1840 (Regn. Dursley)
wife - Elizabeth .... and is there a child named "William" ?
[This family features in "JAP's" magnificent summary - Reply # 19 of this thread] .
Thanks
Lu
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No William I'm afraid
Mitre Inn, Sinwell & Bradley RG10/2591 folio 72 pg 4
Samuel Richings head mar 30 butcher & publican
Elizabeth wife 30
Louisa Ann dau 9 scholar
Emily Kate dau 4 scholar
Samuel son 1
Isaac Mortimer boarder umn 66 weaver b. Wilts, Kingston Longley
all born Wotton-under-Edge except where stated.
There's an enumerator's mark over Samuel's age, and it's been transcribed as 36 on Ancestry, but I think it should say 30 and therefore match what he gave in 1861 which was 20.
Does this mean there's been an update on my favourite soap opera? Off to the Australian board to check.
:D
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Hi Osprey
Very many thanks. :) (And sorry to disappoint ~ not much doing, over at the Aussie board ~ no impending drama) :(
This William (Will) RICHINGS pops up in a newspaper obituary in Hokitika, New Zealand, 1897 - he's lived there for about four years. Obit is for his Uncle, William FOWLER (b. Wotton-under-Edge, Nov. 1832) - a respected member of the Hokitika community. Young Will is described as "the son of FOWLER's sister, Mrs RICHINGS".
This 1871 Samuel RICHINGS (who appears to be the brother of my John (alias "Thomas") RICHINGS, married an Elizabeth FOWLER . (I feel pretty sure Will is the child of this couple) .
At FreeBMD I see a "William RICHINGS" - b. Dec. 1864 - Regn. Dursley. [Also births for Emily (Kate) - 1867 and Samuel - 1870 ... nothing for Louisa Ann. Haven't found a "William" death ]. Wondering now if the 7-8 year-old William is away a boarding school or such-like ?
(No William in 1881 either, with his now widowed Mother and sisters). Mmm ... puzzling ?
Thanks again.
Lu
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He's with Granny in 1871 :D
Bradley Street, Wotton-under-Edge RG10/2591 folio 11 pg 14
Ann Fowler head widow 65 beer seller
Frederick son 22 carpenter
William Richings grandson 6 scholar
all born Wotton-under-Edge
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And in 1881
Bradley St, Wotton-under-Edge RG11/2518 folio 8 pg 7
Ann Fowler head widower 75 beer retailer
William Richings grandson 16 draper's assistant
both born Wotton-under-Edge
1891 10 Norfolk St, Bournemouth, Hampshire RG12/904 folio 97 pg 21
David C Edwards head 27 grocer's assistant b. Luxchurch, S Wales
William Richings lodger 26 draper's assistant b. Wotton-under-Edge, Glos
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Wonderful Osprey ! Thanks :)
Have just checked 1881 ... still with Gran (same address)
- aged 16 - Draper's apprentice.
Will went back to England for a brief period in 1897 - and upon returning to NZ he set up his own drapery business. Seems he was rather talented musically - he founded the Hokitika Opera and Drama Society, and served on several sports committees. He married late in life (without issue).
Ah ... have found a "respectable" RICHINGS .... at last ! ;D
Thanks for your help.
Lu
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..... Whoops .....
our "posts" crossed ... thanks for the additional (1891) :)
Lu
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Good evening
I have been reseaching the Richings family for several years but have only just started using Rootschat last week.
Did you get any further with the elusive John Richings bp 02-01-1839 at Wotton-Under-Edge.
My research on him ended when I couldn't find him on the 1871C and I thought he may have died.
I am descended from William and Marianne.
Regards
CW
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Did you get any further with the elusive John Richings bp 02-01-1839 at Wotton-Under-Edge.
My research on him ended when I couldn't find him on the 1871C and I thought he may have died.
Yes, the "life and times" of John RICHINGS, have pretty much been sorted out ... there is info both in this thread and on the one which appears on the Australian board.
Lu
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John Richings 1839-1898 was my great great grandfather. He deserted his wife Sarah Ann nee Blizard later Armitage two or three weeks after his son John Blizard Richings was born in December 1863. Sarah divorced him in the early 1870s. I have the full transcript of the divorce proceedings somewhere(from Kew) but have been moving stuff and can't lay my hands on it at the moment. Grounds for divorce were adultery ("with an Amelia Underhill at a coffee shop in Stroud and later at the Strand London") and desertion.
He then of course got the worst of the argument with the Rangiora train in February 1898
I have photographs of most of the WUE Richings family taken at the wedding of Mabel, JBR's daughter in I guess about 1910. My main source of information is my mother who was born 1920 and is still alive but I have obtained most of the necessary documentation on this family back to John senior 1817 to 1895 and his wife Mary Cook
Hope I am not making a mess of this as it is my first post.
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Hi ishtat
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
What a nice way to start - very exciting to have so much information. I had no idea that Stroud coffee shops were such dens on iniquity, lol!
I hope you enjoy Rootschat.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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I'm sure Lucy will be glad to hear from you. Have you seen another one of her Richings' posts on the Australian board - quite a saga!
:o
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,259529.0.html
;D
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Hello there Ishtat and welcome to rootschat!
Now how exciting for Lucy to get so much more information on John Richings!!
having travelled down the path of history with her via rootschat I am very excited to find out about his background.
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi All
I'm here ! I'm here !
Have just picked myself up, off the floor ! :D :D :D
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Later Edit : Thanks Osprey and Jenn ... yes, how exciting is this new info ? :) (Sorry, I was in a tizz - earlier).
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Hi ishtat :)
.... and from me ... a huge Welcome to RootsChat ! :)
(Yes, you have done a splendid job, with your first posting to this board) !
Thank you so much for sharing all this amazing information.
I'm utterly blown away ... never, ever, did I imagine that there might be "more to be had" on the life of John RICHINGS ?
Of course, I too, am his g-g-grand-daughter (through Lily, one of two New Zealand-born children, he had with Annie HEASMAN (MORININI).
But, I expect you will have already read through the (very long) thread on the Australian board, and gleaned something of the "antics" of John (alias "Thomas") ?
Quite a tale it is, too. :o
None of this "story" though would have been possible, without the brilliant and truly generous help, of fellow RootsChatters - a number of whom went above and beyond the call of "duty". :-* I'm (still) in awe of all the wonderful contributions which have been made by so many.
So, there WAS a DIVORCE ! Wow ! (Speculation had been, that John simply "turkeyed" off (deserted) ... and that Sarah Ann had had him declared as deceased after 7 years, enabling her to re-marry) ? But she went to that effort - of divorcing him - and what's more, it's all documented ! Wow (again) ! Divorce would have been a fairly rare occurrence back then, I'm thinking ? (Seems he might have had a penchant for for dames named "Amelia" ? Annie HEASMAN was officially - "Ann Amelia") ::)
How wonderful that your Mum has been able to provide some RICHINGS family history for you ... and photos of the family members are such a "bonus". Lucky you. :)
[I only discovered the RICHINGS name on a marriage certificate ... and it would seem only a handful of persons of that surname, ever ventured to New Zealand. From our family, the only other who made these shores, was William (Will) the son of Samuel (John's brother). ]
Obviously, I'd love to know a little more about this divorce - but only of course, if you are happy to share that information. (I'd be pleased even if you could just supply me with a reference number, so I could obtain my own copy).
So grateful that you decided to contribute to this RICHINGS thread ... and as you can see, you've made more than just one person happy !
Look forward to hearing from you again. :)
Kind regards
Lu
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What fantastic news!
The divorce reference is in the National Archives but would we have picked it up? Sarah is listed as Sarah Jane instead of Sarah Ann, and the name BLIZARD does not appear. See:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-3062058&j=1
Welcome ishtat.
I'm so pleased for you, Lu.
JAP
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WA HOO Lu ;D ;D
What a saga ;) When is the book/movie coming out :D
So pleased for you ;D
Trish
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Hi JAP :)
Absolutely ... fantastic news, isn't it ! Who would have thought .... ?
Yes, I'm truly "blown away".
Many thanks for the Archives link. :)
Hmmm ... "Sarah Jane" (rather than "Sarah Ann") ? For my part, I'd never entertained the thought, that there might have been an "actual" divorce ? And well done "ishtat", for finding it !
Whilst I'm obviously over the moon - the very best part is to still be sharing in the new developments, with those of you who have made such fantastic contributions to the Richings/Heasman search. :)
Lu
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Hi Trish :)
Beaut ... huh ? Thanks.
Hmmm ... the book? Seems it's sort of "writing its self" ... right here ?
What's probably needed now, is a good Aussie bookmaker.
A bit of punting on whether this "story".... will ever end ?
Cheers
Lu
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I found my copy of the divorce papers for John Richings/Sarah Ann Armitage formerly Richings nee Blizard this afternoon and realised I had made a mistake in calling the coffee shop adulterer Amelia Underhill . Her name was in fact Isabella.
Looking quickly through my files I believe that I probably have a fair bit of information and documents, birth, marriage certs, coroners reports etc. you may not have. Nothing earth shattering but it will fill in a few gaps. However, I am going away for a few days and will not be back in Sydney until after the weekend; I will then look through to see what might be useful.
I have lived in Sydney for 32 years but am very familiar with the WUE family as I often visited there as a child and have recently spent 2 years in UK at Berkeley and Uley, both about 7miles from WUE..
My Aunt Nora 1915 to 2000 kept a diary in which amongst other things she wrote down comments about various relatives which she had been told by such people as John Richings sister and Sarah Ann herself who didn't die until 1926. I cannot give you a copy of that because some of it is very personal but I can quote from it some of the thoughts of Sarah Ann about her first husband.
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Hi Lucy and Ishtat
Well this just gets more interesting by the day - I wish I had found Rootschat in 2007 when you started this post as I could have sent you some of the information then from research I did in 2004.
Do either of you have anything on John Richings (senior) born 1817. I have been trying to follow this John backwards for some time. His parents were John Richings (born approx. 1791) and Hannah and the saga of the wayward Richings continues with John and Hannah. It appears from what I have found that John deserted Hannah and took up with their servant, possible even divorcing Hannah and marrying Eliza. I will look up my notes tonight when I get home as I have Census details and information I found at the W-U-E History Centre some years ago.
John (Thomas) Richings who deserted Sarah Ann, was the brother of my 2 x great grandfather, William and I thought my Richings family was quite staid until I came to the mystery of John deserting Hannah, and now all this!!!
Seems you both live in Aus. I was born in Aus but have lived in the UK for 10 years, about 40 miles from WUE.
Regards
CW
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Hi ishtat
Just having a little giggle about "the coffee shop adulterer". :D Well, I wonder what became of this Isabella ... perhaps we can find her too ? (Mmmm ... now I'm getting ahead of myself).
It sounds like you have some wonderful information - and thanks, would dearly love to have details of anything you care to share. :)
I have John's New Zealand Death Cert., a copy of his 1881 bankruptcy file; the Letters of Administration record (he died intestate and seemingly penniless). (Nothing exciting, but "records" nevertheless). There is also a Coroner's report (1898) - fairly well covered in a newspaper article (I think there is probably a reference to it on the AUS thread)? Archives New Zealand have this report on film, but because it was written up on blue-coloured paper, it has not photographed well and is virtually impossible to read. (I can/must, send a request to the Chief Archivist, to ascertain whether I can view the original - though it possibly carries no more detail than the newspaper article).
And, Aunt Nora's diary ... what a delight to have a treasure such as that. Oh yes, absolutely, it's contents should not be divulged.
So ... looking forward to this new information ... and who knows, by marrying some of this up with what we already have, there may even arise, some new developments ?
(Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic ?) :D
Ah, RICHINGS ... what a family !
Lu
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Hi cello
Welcome back. :)
(Sorry, I edited my last posting to you, as in retrospect, I thought you were only seeking to find out what had become of John RICHINGS - and that lengthy saga is all documented over on the AUS thread). :)
Yes, isn't this all very interesting ... exciting, more like !
WOW ! How great that you too have further info for our family.
Have to admit that I'm guilty of not having (yet) followed through to finding more on John (senior) and Mary. I promise you though ... it is sitting in my "to do" file ! ;)
AND ... John and Hannah ... and Eliza ? Brilliant !
(How intriguing ... ANOTHER scandal ? ! Hey, we shouldn't really be surprised, should we ? ) Looking forward to hearing more.
Don't fret about not finding RootsChat earlier ... the important thing, is that we have you aboard ... now !
So, yes please ... anything you care to contribute, is most welcome. Thanks.
Lu
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Refer posting today at 15:07
1841 Census: Long St, Wotton-Under-Edge, GLS
RICHINGS John, Male, 50, born Gloucestershire
RICHINGS Hannah, Female, 53, born Gloucestershire
RICHINGS Jacob, Male, 17, born Gloucestershire
COOK Eliza, Female, 24
COOK Edward, Male, 12
COOK George, Male, 10
1851 Census: Haw ST., 95
RICHINGS Jacob, Head, Unmarried, 26, Baker (Master), W-U-E
RICHINGS Hannah, Mother, Married, 63, W-U-E
GAYARD Elizabeth, Niece, 11, Scholar, W-U-E
1851 CENSUS: Long St., 57
RICHINGS John, Head, Married, 62, Baker, W-U-E
RICHINGS Eliza, Wife, Married, 34, Trowbridge, Wilts
BARTLETT Christina, Serv., Unmarried, 19, Servant, W-U-E
Burial at St. Mary's W-U-E in 1894 of Eliza RICHINGS (otherwise Cook) (aged 76).
It appears that in 1841 John and his wife Hannah were living together and also living with them was 24 year old Eliza Cook (and two other children with surname COOK).
By 1851 Hannah was living with her son Jacob (note she still gives her marital status as married), but John appears to be living with Eliza Cook and she is shown as Eliza Richings and as his wife. On her burial details her name is shown as (otherwise COOK) so maybe they never officially married.
The next question is whether Eliza Cook is related to Mary COOK, the wife of John and Hannah's son John. John and Mary are the parents of John (Thomas) Richings.
The wicked webs we weave!
CW
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EXCELLENT cello ! Many thanks. :)
(Will cast my eye over this in more detail). Fascinating ! ::)
Ah ... butchers ... bakers ... but not as yet, any candlestick makers ? (Perhaps we'll find some of those in the COOK line)?
Yes, this COOK connection seems intriguing.
Thanks again.
Lu
Edit: Giggle ... John / Hannah / Eliza ... yes it looks like a classic case, of "trading up, to a newer-model" ? ::)
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I found my copy of the divorce papers for John Richings/Sarah Ann Armitage formerly Richings nee Blizard this afternoon and realised I had made a mistake in calling the coffee shop adulterer Amelia Underhill . Her name was in fact Isabella.
Hmmm .... Isabella UNDERHILL :D
I wonder if this is her ??
FREE BMD (UK)
BIRTHS - MAR 1841
UNDERHILL - Isabella - Reg'd at Thornbury
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By 1851 Hannah was living with her son Jacob (note she still gives her marital status as married), but John appears to be living with Eliza Cook and she is shown as Eliza Richings and as his wife. On her burial details her name is shown as (otherwise COOK) so maybe they never officially married.
FREE BMD (UK)
Marriages - December - 1851
RICHINGS - John
... and on same page Eliza COOK ! Reg'd at Bristol.
(Oooh ... this John, did the right thing ) ;)
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errr.. possibly only the right thing if Hannah died between the 1851 census (31/3) and the second marriage. Before the reform of 1857, divorce was only by act of parliament and very expensive.
possible death reg?
Ann Richings sept qtr 1851 Cirencester vol 11 pg 185
this one could be the reg - correct district for W-U-E?
Anna Maria Richings march qtr 1854 Dursley vol 6a pg 130
there's a submitted marriage on the IGI for John Richings 9/6/1813 to Hannah Mariah Cook at St John the Baptist, Bristol which, if correct, could explain the presence of the Cooks in the 1841 census.
But no baptism for a Hannah Cook in the IGI batch C049411 for WUE which does have the baptism for John Richings 25/12/1790 son of John & Sarah.
:-\
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Hi Osprey :)
Many thanks for the clarification re: divorces ... and for the "other" possibilities.
Hmmm ... some more digging and head-scratching, to be done.
Cheers
Lu
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Hi ishtat
Just having a little giggle about "the coffee shop adulterer". :D Well, I wonder what became of this Isabella ... perhaps we can find her too ? (Mmmm ... now I'm getting ahead of myself).
It sounds like you have some wonderful information - and thanks, would dearly love to have details of anything you care to share. :)
I have John's New Zealand Death Cert., a copy of his 1881 bankruptcy file; the Letters of Administration record (he died intestate and seemingly penniless). (Nothing exciting, but "records" nevertheless). There is also a Coroner's report (1898) - fairly well covered in a newspaper article (I think there is probably a reference to it on the AUS thread)? Archives New Zealand have this report on film, but because it was written up on blue-coloured paper, it has not photographed well and is virtually impossible to read. (I can/must, send a request to the Chief Archivist, to ascertain whether I can view the original - though it possibly carries no more detail than the newspaper article).
And, Aunt Nora's diary ... what a delight to have a treasure such as that. Oh yes, absolutely, it's contents should not be divulged.
So ... looking forward to this new information ... and who knows, by marrying some of this up with what we already have, there may even arise, some new developments ?
(Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic ?) :D
Ah, RICHINGS ... what a family !
Lu
I guess this is really aimed at Lucy 2 and I am doing it on the Board because I haven't figured out the personal messaging system here yet.
I have and am quite happy to send copies of :-
1 John Richings birth cert 1839.
2.John Richings and Sarah Ann's wedding Cert 1860(she was 16 or 17)
3 Sarah Ann Blizzard's birth cert 1843.
4 John Blizzard Richings birth cert 1863.
5 Elizabeth Mary Perret's birth cert 1864.
6 Elizabeth Jane Richings marriage cert 1864(wife of 4 above)
7 Various Coroners(perfectly clear) and NZ and UK newspapers reports for the death of 1 above in 1898.
8 Copy of the Divorce proceedings/ Petition of 1 and 3 above 1873.
9 Various Richings family photographs including the wedding of Mabel Richings to Fred Grimes which includes the only known picture extant of Sarah Ann Armitage formerly Richings nee Blizzard.
I have a stack of other stuff given to me by relatives but I haven't sorted it out yet.
As we are both in Australia I would be happy to send you copies of any of this together with all the other information I have though much of it may be outside your scope of interest . ie late 19th early 20th century after your ancestors were born.
I will however need some means of getting it to you so could you please send me a pm or email contact (if the board rules allow the latter)
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Hi ishtat
Just having a little giggle about "the coffee shop adulterer". :D Well, I wonder what became of this Isabella ... perhaps we can find her too ? (Mmmm ... now I'm getting ahead of myself).
It sounds like you have some wonderful information - and thanks, would dearly love to have details of anything you care to share. :)
I have John's New Zealand Death Cert., a copy of his 1881 bankruptcy file; the Letters of Administration record (he died intestate and seemingly penniless). (Nothing exciting, but "records" nevertheless). There is also a Coroner's report (1898) - fairly well covered in a newspaper article (I think there is probably a reference to it on the AUS thread)? Archives New Zealand have this report on film, but because it was written up on blue-coloured paper, it has not photographed well and is virtually impossible to read. (I can/must, send a request to the Chief Archivist, to ascertain whether I can view the original - though it possibly carries no more detail than the newspaper article).
And, Aunt Nora's diary ... what a delight to have a treasure such as that. Oh yes, absolutely, it's contents should not be divulged.
So ... looking forward to this new information ... and who knows, by marrying some of this up with what we already have, there may even arise, some new developments ?
(Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic ?) :D
Ah, RICHINGS ... what a family !
Lu
Sorry I forgot to mention on my previous post that Isabella Underhill was christened at Thornbury Glos on 30 May 1841. The town where John Richings had opened a butchers business after his marriage to Sarah Ann.
ishtat
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Hi ishtat :)
Thank you very much.
Yes, I will contact you shortly, via the PM facility here.
Lu
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Refer posting today at 15:07
1841 Census: Long St, Wotton-Under-Edge, GLS
RICHINGS John, Male, 50, born Gloucestershire
RICHINGS Hannah, Female, 53, born Gloucestershire
RICHINGS Jacob, Male, 17, born Gloucestershire
COOK Eliza, Female, 24
COOK Edward, Male, 12
COOK George, Male, 10
1851 Census: Haw ST., 95
RICHINGS Jacob, Head, Unmarried, 26, Baker (Master), W-U-E
RICHINGS Hannah, Mother, Married, 63, W-U-E
GAYARD Elizabeth, Niece, 11, Scholar, W-U-E
1851 CENSUS: Long St., 57
RICHINGS John, Head, Married, 62, Baker, W-U-E
RICHINGS Eliza, Wife, Married, 34, Trowbridge, Wilts
BARTLETT Christina, Serv., Unmarried, 19, Servant, W-U-E
Burial at St. Mary's W-U-E in 1894 of Eliza RICHINGS (otherwise Cook) (aged 76).
It appears that in 1841 John and his wife Hannah were living together and also living with them was 24 year old Eliza Cook (and two other children with surname COOK).
By 1851 Hannah was living with her son Jacob (note she still gives her marital status as married), but John appears to be living with Eliza Cook and she is shown as Eliza Richings and as his wife. On her burial details her name is shown as (otherwise COOK) so maybe they never officially married.
The next question is whether Eliza Cook is related to Mary COOK, the wife of John and Hannah's son John. John and Mary are the parents of John (Thomas) Richings.
The wicked webs we weave!
CW
Hi Cello,
Amidst the excitement I appear to have caused last week I forgot to thank you for your work on the earlier John Richings (b 1790 the baker). I had never been happy with the work I had done trying to connect John Richings (1816-17 1895) with his parents and yours clearly is much more thorough.Thanks.
Ishtat
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Hi Ishtat
Thanks for your posting. Maybe you can help me with a search I am stuck on. Just to summarise a few bits from my research which are only relevant to two sons:
John RICHINGS & Mary COOK (m. 26-04-1838) had among the 9 children that I know of:
A first born son, John RICHINGS who married Sarah Ann BLIZARD on 31-01-1860 (then later deserted her and scived off to NZ)
and a third born son, William RICHINGS who married Marianne HOPKINS on 01-11-1866.
John and Sarah had a son John Blizard RICHINGS (born 29-Dec-1863) who married Elizabeth Mary PERRETT on 30-12-1885, and their second child was Mabel RICHINGS, born in 1888.
William and Marianne had a son Frank Edward RICHINGS (B. 30-11-1876), who was the first cousin of John Blizard RICHINGS. Frank married Bertha KING on 22-06-1910 and one of the witnesses was John B. RICHINGS.
I am assuming that the witness John B. was Franks first cousin John Blizard RICHINGS.
As Frank and Bertha were married in 1910 with John as the witness, and John's daughter Mabel was married in 1910, maybe Frank and Bertha attended Mabels wedding. If possible, could you please check your photos for me when you have time.
My search has stopped with Fank and Bertha's wedding. I cannot find them on the 1911 census. Now found on 1911 census in Ambala, India.
My great-grandmother was Frank's sister Charlotte and I have correspondence from both Charlotte to my grand-mother, and from Frank to their brother Charles, implying that Frank had a daughter named Molly.
I cannot find Molly anywhere (or indeed any children from the marriage of Frank and Bertha - see Reply 71 below), but the letters also say that Molly married and also had at least one child. Sadly all my efforts to put the letters into some date context have failed. It is possible Molly was Bertha's child prior to marriage to Frank. I have looked at all Birth records on BMD from just prior to the marriage up to 1930. After Sep 1911 the BMD records show mothers maiden name but I have found no reference to KING. The children born between 1910 and Sep 1911 I have double-checked as may as possible - hunting them down on 1911C but with no luck.
Franks' (undated) letter to his brother Charles implies that Molly is about 16, and Frank was living in Aston-On-Carrant, Gloucestershire. I can only confirm that the letter was written AFTER 1923 and before 1948!!!
If you or your mother can help me in any way to identify Molly I would be most appreciative as Molly's child/children could still be alive today and I would dearly love to find them.
Regards
Cello
PS - It is lovely and sunny today in Oxfordshire! I'm getting homesick for Aus!
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Hi Cello,
It is highly likely that Molly is a shortened version or pet name.
Have you discounted something like this birth;
June 1911, Richings Hilda.M, Swindon, 5a 20
Also noticed parents married Dursley and there are quite a few births post 1911 there with Mothers name as Richings.
It has happened to other Rootschatters that the Mothers maiden name has not been on the index only her married.
Trish
EDIT; there is also a marriage 1929 for the Hilda above on Freebmd
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Thanks Trish
Yes, I have discussed the name 'Molly' with several people and have assumed it is a pet name.
I have already searched the Hilda M. in Swindon. On the 1911 Census she was four days old and living with her parents John & Florence.
I have followed up several in the period just after the marriage but have discounted any that looked vaguely hopeful even some with Mother's maiden name RICHINGS that looked promising.
Thank you for your time. I will keep looking though until I get an answer.
Regards
Cello
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Hi Ishtat
Thanks for your posting. Maybe you can help me with a search I am stuck on. Just to summarise a few bits from my research which are only relevant to two sons:
John RICHINGS & Mary COOK (m. 26-04-1838) had among the 9 children that I know of:
A first born son, John RICHINGS who married Sarah Ann BLIZARD on 31-01-1860 (then later deserted her and scived off to NZ)
and a third born son, William RICHINGS who married Marianne HOPKINS on 01-11-1866.
John and Sarah had a son John Blizard RICHINGS (B. APPROX. 1864) who (I think) married Elizabeth Mary PERRETT on 30-12-1885, and their second child was Mabel RICHINGS, born about 1889.
William and Marianne had a son Frank Edward RICHINGS (B. 30-11-1876), who was the first cousin of John Blizard RICHINGS. Frank married Bertha KING on 22-06-1910 and one of the witnesses was John B. RICHINGS.
I am assuming that the witness John B. was Franks first cousin John Blizard RICHINGS.
As Frank and Bertha were married in 1910 with John as the witness, and John's daughter Mabel was married in 1910, maybe Frank and Bertha attended Mabels wedding. If possible, could you please check your photos for me when you have time.
My search has stopped with Fank and Bertha's wedding. I cannot find them on the 1911 census.
My great-grandmother was Frank's sister Charlotte and I have correspondence from both Charlotte to my grand-mother, and from Frank to their brother Charles, implying that Frank had a daughter named Molly.
I cannot find Molly anywhere (or indeed any children from the marriage of Frank and Bertha), but the letters also say that Molly married and also had at least one child. Sadly all my efforts to put the letters into some date context have failed. It is possible Molly was Bertha's child prior to marriage to Frank. I have looked at all Birth records on BMD from just prior to the marriage up to 1930. After Sep 1911 the BMD records show mothers maiden name but I have found no reference to KING. The children born between 1910 and Sep 1911 I have double-checked as may as possible - hunting them down on 1911C but with no luck.
Franks' (undated) letter to his brother Charles implies that Molly is about 16, and Frank was living in Aston-On-Carrant, Gloucestershire. I can only confirm that the letter was written AFTER 1923 and before 1948!!!
If you or your mother can help me in any way to identify Molly I would be most appreciative as Molly's child/children could still be alive today and I would dearly love to find them.
Regards
Cello
PS - It is lovely and sunny today in Oxfordshire! I'm getting homesick for Aus!
John Blizard Richings b Thornbury 29 Dec 1863 d 24 Jan 1941
He married Elizabeth Mary Perrett (b 19 May 1864) his first cousin on 30 12 1885 she died 24 Jul 1948.
Assumption about John B is correct, plenty of JR's but only one JBR.
I understand that Mabel b 8 Sep 1888 d 6 Jun 1966 married Fred Grimes on 10 Sep 1913.
The Photo is probably not helpful but I will Email you a copy anyway with a key which identifies about half those present. The photo appears to include only immediate family of the wedding party - and that was a fair number.
Molly Richings definitely existed . She ran some sort of riding establishment in Dursley in the 1950's and my wife took riding lessons with her. My wife's out at the moment but will see if she can remember more later today.
If you can pm me an Email address I will send the photos and give you a couple of good Richings contacts in UK.
Ishtat
My wife has returned and all she remembers is that Molly Richings had a modest riding operation which she ran from the stables of the old Rangers House in Dursley . This big House was demolished in the mid to late 1950's to make room for a council estate. My wife who was perhaps 8 or 10 at the time remembers Molly as a woman perhaps in her 30's possibly 40's and she is fairly sure she was single.
I know a couple of people in the UK who will definitely know her and will ask them.
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Hi Ishtat
Thank you very much for your reply. I will send a PM today.
I only have a few minutes to reply now but I am wondering if we have 2 Molly's somewhere?
I cannot find my g-grandmothers letter right now when I need it but will look for it again tonight, but I do remember she was quite old and I think the letter was written in the early 1940's. Although the letter was dated from memory it was quite rambling and the context of the letter made me think that what she wrote about Molly could be several years old. However, she wrote that Molly had married a policeman and that when she had last seen her she had a baby, but she confesses she couldn't remember if it was a boy or girl!
On Frank's undated letter he writes "Molly has left school and we have apprenticed her to the haridressing, etc in Cheltenham. You would hardly know her now she's nearly as tall as me". I suspect then that Molly was about 15/16 when he wrote the letter. I know it was written after Sep 1923 because he mentions the death of an uncle on the Hopkins side of the family.
Any help you can give me is most appreciated.
Regards
Cello
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I have started a new thread - Searching for Molly Richings - at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,398092.msg2682592.html#msg2682592
CW
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Hello LU & Cazay,
Firstly.... can I please send information to both of you?
You are both correct about quite a lot. You have given me some snippets that I do not have. If you are looking for John Richings, b.1839 Gloucestershire... son of John Richings ..Butcher of Wotton Under Edge.... I can help you. How do you relate to him?
I can help you, but I don't want to give you information you already have. Also....bear with me because I need to eat!
I am so pleased to make this contact with you.
Kind Thoughts
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Hello Lucy2,
I am not sure you will get this post. But here goes.......... I am looking for any descendants of John Richings, b. 1839 who went to New Zealand in the mid 1860s. I am also interested in any other Richings who relate to his family.
Kind Thoughts
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This message is addressed to anyone who has been following this fascinating thread. Thanks to the information posted by Ishtar, I've confirmed that my great-grandfather, Albert Richings (1855 - 1929) was indeed the son of John and Mary Richings, and the younger brother of the infamous John Richings. ;D I would love to connect to any of my distant cousins in the UK, New Zealand and Austrailia. My grandmother, Constance Richings (1893-1966), daughter of Albert, married John A. Jones (another Brit from Birmingham) in the USA (Connecticut) in 1914. They had five children, including my father David P. Jones (1924 - 2005). I was born in 1947 and currently live in Phoenix, Arizona.
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Hello GuyHenry,
You probably have loads of stuff now on Albert Richings, but here goes............ I have been working on the Richings family tree. (Wotton Under Edge) They are a really interesting bunch. Why do you call John infamous? Has he done something else?
I am back to John the Baker....b.1790. Do you have any info re: Albert's wife? Her family had a sweet shop near to John's butcher shop.
CornBunting
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CornBunting - Thanks for the quick response !! No - I have nothing more to add to John's story. Perhaps infamous was too strong a word to apply to him...but it seems that he led an interesting life.
As for Albert's wife, Blanche Tilley, I have a handwritten Tilley genealogy (dated 1955) that goes back to William Tilley (born 1779). Albert (1855 - 1929) and Blanche had five children. Vivian (b. 1889), Constance (my grandmother1892 - 1966), Elton (killed in Action 1916), Nigel (b. 1905) and Audrey (b. 1909). Blanche, Vivian, Constance and Audrey all emigrated to the USA and settled in Connecticut. I believe Albert came with them, but returned to the UK prior to his death. Blanche died around 1936. As a youth I knew Vivian and Audrey (Audrey outlived Vivian by several years). Never heard much about Nigel (I believe he was sort of the black sheep of the family). Constance was the only one of Albert and Blanche's offspring who had children of her own: Robert (3 sons, 3 daughters), Audrey (1 son, one daughter), Elton (killed by a car at age 7), David Philip (my Dad - 3 sons, 3 daughters), and Brian (1 son and 2 daughters). Hope this is helpful.
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Hello GuyHenry,
Thank you for getting back to me. You have given me some new info to add to my Albert File. Yes Albert did come back to England. He died soon afterwards and is buried in Bristol. He had quite a send off. It seems he was well liked, and I suspect a bit of a character. He went to Paris to the Races when he was a young man. Do you have a photo of him?
how far back are you? I think my favourite piece of 'treasure' is fing out that John the Baker, Albert's GFather..b.1790 had a lisp.
I have info/photo of Elton, d.1916. He was a bright lad. Is there anything in particular you want to know about Albert or his kin.? I have assorted info.
CornBunting
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No, I don't have a photo of Albert. I believe that some old family photos are being kept by my cousins on the east coast. I can certainly e-mail them to see what they might have. My great grandfather Albert must have been an interesting fellow. My great-grandfather on my mother's side, however, was a Presbyterian minister. He died in 1953 at age 83 - and I recall meeting him in 1950 when I was 3.
I know very little about Albert, except that he and Blanche had a bit of a falling out toward the end of his life. Blanche died in 1942 in Stamford, Connecticut.
Actually I'm surprised how little I actually know about the Richings, given that I'd visit my father and grandparents every summer in Connecticut while growing up. No one ever sat down with me to explain the family history.
My records go back to John the Baker - although I don't know how many children he actually had. As for the "lisp" - I had one too as a child (ha, ha), but fortunately an elementary school speech therapist worked with me to correct it .
I've seen a photo of Elton in uniform. So sad that he was killed in the Great War, and that his namesake, my uncle Elton, was run down at age 7 by a drunk driver 9 years later..
Any information you have regarding Albert, his kin, and Elton would be most appreciated. I will share it with my siblings, cousins and my own children.
THANKS !!!!!!!
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Hello GuyHenry.......
That is excellent.....I can pass info to you without you being 'snowed under' with stuff you already have. I will start with Albert and work back.
Re: John b.1839.(went to New Zealand). He paid a high price for any mistakes (estranged from his family and children). Would you have or be able to access a photo of him? Re: John, b.1839. His daughter had If I remember rightly, 4 sons . 3 were killed in WW1 the youngest was still a boy and too young to fight. That must have 'marked' him. Perhaps that was a similar situation with Elton and Nigel?....
Are you able to access through a site English Newspapers? This site is about to be absorbed? by Ancestry I believe.
I will send you the first installment later today.
CornBunting
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I don't have a photo of John - but other family members may.
Nigel would have been too young to fight in WWI
I'm not sure when Albert and Blanche, Vivian, Nigel and Audrey emigrated to the US. My grandmother, Constance came over when she was about 18, and married my grandfather in 1914 when she was 22.
I haven't explored accessing English Newspapers through another site. I'm quite new to this. Had my DNA tested on Ancestry in December. The two top matches were my 1st cousins, which gave me a higher level of comfort in the process.
Among the 40 or so people who I was matched to using DNA, I found a Scott Richings in New Zealand who is a 4th or 6th cousin. We are trying to determine exactly how we are related.
He's only been able to trace his Richings lineage back to 1892 as follows:
"My family Richings ends with confirmation at James Richings born 1892 died 1975 and is buried here in new Zealand at Purewa cemetery with his wife Sarah Richings born 1892 died 1944.
It appears they married in 1919 in Downpatrick Ireland.
Then immegrated to New Zealand on the ship Ionic which departed from Plymouth England 8 Sept 1919 and arrived in NZ at Lyttleton Christchurch.
They had 2 children Vera and my grandfather Thomas.
A Parish in Somerford Keynes shows records of a Sarah and James Richings for their time period but I don't know what that information is."
If a James Richings (b. 1892) shows up in any of your records, please let me know !!
Thank you so much !!!!!!
GuyHenry
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Hello GuyH. Re: Albert and family emigrating.......Constance looks like a good bet as to why the family went to the USA.
1911 census: Long St. Wotton Under Edge (WUE)
Albert Richings head mar: 56 1855 butcher Gloucs.
Blanche Maud wife. 41 1870
Mary Vivian d. 21 1890 all born. WUE
Constance Kathleen d. 19 1892
Maurice Elton s. 17 1894
Nigel Francis s. 6 1904 (Dec.Q)
Audrey Blanche d. 1 1909
Constance went to New York, aged 19 in 1911......Work?
Albert, Blanche and Audrey left for New York from southampton 16.July.1921...Aquitania He was 66yrs 5 mths.
Mary Richings. book keeper left Southampton for New York 23.April.1921. Aquitania.
Nigel Francis Richings 16y 3m. travelled with Mary Vivian.
Mary Vivian Hersam or Richings or Richins. (New England Naturalization Petitions/M1299. Sep.18.1930. 37 Hoyt St, New Canaan, Connecticut.
Mary d. 24.Oct.1959.
Marriage: Ref: Gloucestershire Citizen. 3.Jan.1889
Richings--Tilley. At St. Mary's Church, Wotton Under Edge, Albert, youngest surviving son of John Richings, (b.c.1814) to Blanche Maud, youngest daughter of Llewellin Tilley. Both of WUE.
Could Scott be related to John Richings b.1839? Ask him for any info on James. Where born?
Did you know Blanch had a nephew (Arthur Tilley) who died in WW1? He was a sniper and had a German mother. Elton was killed by a sniper.
CornBunting
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This is excellent information.
It is my understanding that Blanche's sister Kate Tilley emigrated to the USA prior to anyone else in the family. Kate married Thomas Harvey and had two daughters. Kate lived to be almost 100 years old.
I assume that my grandmother, Constance, was able to stay with relatives once she arrived in the US.
By the time the rest of the family emigrated in the early 1920s, Constance was married and had three children.
Mary Vivian Richings married John E. Hersam, who was the publisher of The New Canaan Advertiser (which he founded in 1908 and is still run by the Hersam family today and has expanded to include 19 weekly publications in three counties in Connecticut). It was John's second marriage. and he had children by his first marriage. John died in 1949. My mother (who is 92) recalls attending the funeral. He apparently was an important and respected community leader.
As you state, Mary Vivian died in 1959. I recall having dinner with both her and my great aunt Audrey in downtown Los Angeles sometime in 1958. Both Vivian and Audrey died of cancer.
Regarding Blanche's nephew, Arthur Tilley, my genealogy simply states that he "died without issue" - and doesn't mention WWI specifically. His father was Blanche's brother, Llewellyn Frank Lewis Tilley (1863-1919) who apparently was married two times (Florence Alice Duckering 1876-1901 and Lillian Agnes Harriet Browne 1874-1967 m. 1902), had 6 children and emigrated and died in India. Our handwritten family genealogy does not mention either of his two English wives, or the German woman who gave birth to Arthur (do you have her name??).
I'll ask Scott Richings if he has any information regarding James Richings' birthplace. Scott tried tracing James Richings to John Richings, but couldn't make the connection.
Thank you !!
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Hello Guy,
That makes sense....Constance staying with rellies.... Why did Kate go to USA? Always keep asking.
Re: Tilley.... 1881 census: Market St. WUE.
Llewellyn Tilley. h. m. 57 b.1824 Kingswood (2 both in Gloucs) Confectioner
Elizabeth w. 42 1829 Abergavenny.....Monmouth (now in Wales)
CHARLES H s. 15 1856 St. Nicholas (parish) Bristol
John s. 9 1862 London, Middlesex
Lewis s. 7 1864 Islington, London
KATE d. 3 1868 WUE. Gloucs.
Blanche M d. 1 1870 WUE. Gloucs.
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ARTHUR LLEWELLYN TILLEY b. 1892. WUE. Gloucs. son of: Charles Henry & Veronica Tilley.
Private 2719, 5th Battalion/Gloucestershire Regiment. Killed in action...France. 21.July.1916. Commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, France. Enlisted at start of WW1. During training became one of best shots so selected as a sniper. Probably killed 21.July.(Battle of The Somme). (Note to self....Where is Paul ..see below ...on this tree.?) .....Arthur
attended Colston School, Bristol. (prob. single sex) between 1904-1909. Apprenticed to Mawdsley's Engineering works, Dursley. (This is different from your info re: Arthur....Keep both accounts. Somehow, they will both be useful.)I am not sure about access after Rootsweb joins the Mothership....perhaps subscription to the whole site is necessary... I no longer subscribe to the Mothership. Arthur had a brother Paul served as a gunner in the Royal Garrison Artillery. He survived the War. I will check Arthur's line.
I will check Veronica/Germany. How magical to have the memory of 'dinner with the two elderly ladies'....THAT is Family Treeing......not collecting hundreds of names with or without dates.
Can you ask Scott to let me have his 'English' links..... I am intrigued with his link to you. There were other Richings who left Gloucs. who may well share genes.
OOps..........run out of space....CornBunting
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Certainly enjoying this !!
My genealogy shows Charles Henry and Veronica Tilley (maiden name - Faller) having three sons - Harry, Paul and Brymnor who was "killed in action." I assume Brymnor is "Arthur."
At the time we had dinner in 1958, the two elderly ladies were 69 and 48 respectively. They didn't pay much attention to me as they were of the "children should be seen but not heard" mentality. HOWEVER, I did get to know Great Aunt Audrey much better as a young adult, and she bequeathed me two of her Royal Doulton figurines..
I'll see how much information Scott has regarding his English links. I'm afraid it is scarce.
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This is excellent information.
It is my understanding that Blanche's sister Kate Tilley emigrated to the USA prior to anyone else in the family. Kate married Thomas Harvey and had two daughters. Kate lived to be almost 100 years old.
I assume that my grandmother, Constance, was able to stay with relatives once she arrived in the US.
By the time the rest of the family emigrated in the early 1920s, Constance was married and had three children.
Mary Vivian Richings married John E. Hersam, who was the publisher of The New Canaan Advertiser (which he founded in 1908 and is still run by the Hersam family today and has expanded to include 19 weekly publications in three counties in Connecticut). It was John's second marriage. and he had children by his first marriage. John died in 1949. My mother (who is 92) recalls attending the funeral. He apparently was an important and respected community leader.
As you state, Mary Vivian died in 1959. I recall having dinner with both her and my great aunt Audrey in downtown Los Angeles sometime in 1958. Both Vivian and Audrey died of cancer.
Regarding Blanche's nephew, Arthur Tilley, my genealogy simply states that he "died without issue" - and doesn't mention WWI specifically. His father was Blanche's brother, Llewellyn Frank Lewis Tilley (1863-1919) who apparently was married two times (Florence Alice Duckering 1876-1901 and Lillian Agnes Harriet Browne 1874-1967 m. 1902), had 6 children and emigrated and died in India. Our handwritten family genealogy does not mention either of his two English wives, or the German woman who gave birth to Arthur (do you have her name??).
I'll ask Scott Richings if he has any information regarding James Richings' birthplace. Scott tried tracing James Richings to John Richings, but couldn't make the connection.
Thank you !!
Hi all ive just joined....I'm this Scott Richings mentioned above.
My great grandfather was James Richings 1892-1975 my great grandmother was Sarah Richings nee Thompson 1892-1975
I'm still trying to connect my Richings to all these Richings as I'm on ancestry DNA and I'm getting matches into realitives connected to them.
Is anyone else on here on ancestry DNA? Or interested in doing DNA test on there to connect in ☺
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Hello GuyHenry............This is indeed a mystery.........
Re: Arthur Tilley, b.1892...........He died without issue and was killed in WW1. My info is taken from: My War (WW1) book which says that Arthur LLewllyn Tilley was the son of Charles H. (b.c.1856). Charles is on the 1871 and the 1881 census as ...son of LLewellyn Tilley, b.c.1826 Gloucestershire and Elizabeth his wife, b. 1829, Abergavenny. They were confectioners living in Orchard St., which is a small street running a right angles to Long St.
There are 2 other sons mentioned.... John, b.c.1862 and Lewis, b.c.1864 and then Kate, b.c.1868.
Blanche M is mentioned next, b.c.1870. On the 1881 cens.....There is a cousin Glen Tilley, b.c.1862. Bath, Somerset. I hope to sort my printer tomorrow, then I can check.
I wonder if Lewis might be a candidate? ......The book has opted for the wrong son?.....We are very close. Hopefully tomorrow I can check.
CornBunting.....
nb: If there were 2 Arthurs.....living in close proximity..... might one be called Brymnor?
see: Thursday 22 Feb. post. I did all this then checked the old messages...Doh! wrong way round!