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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: dave the tyke on Saturday 27 October 07 20:06 BST (UK)
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It seems my 3Xg grandfather was a Sgt Major in a Halifax ~~~Company. can anyone help with the missing word
The census ref. is Soyland HO107; Piece: 2299; Folio: 514; Page: 24
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Hi Dave
This is my take on it - I don't think there was any Military connection intended? Or that the first appearing word of occupation is (or is meant to be) "Pensioner" - I think it is meant to be a rendering of "Reckoner", especially seeing the emumerator dropped the "k" out of "Overlooker" on the next line. I also think the second line was actually written first with the top line added next by the same hand. Re" the Sergent Magor bit - if the penultimate word on that line is "Mill", then I think this was intended to infer he was some kind of foreman, rather that a military connection - this part was crossed out (probably by the enumerator's checker) because the second line of description was sufficient to explain what Mr Bradley did for a living, without the extra clarification.
Occupation:
reconer and sergent magor of the Halifax Mill Company
overloocer in a Wooling Mill Cheley
The address is "Lower Dyson Lane Mill" - the town was Soyland in the Elland /Calder Valley area of Halifax.
The wife is employed as a Domestic, which indicates the family wasn't especially well off? Ie his job wasn't as 'high up" as the description might have it?
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/europe/uk/england/county/west-yorkshire/
Can't find a town Cheley or Chiley....
http://cdroms.blunham.com/Indexes/Leeds1853Index.html
Chellow
http://www.city-of-bradford.com/chellow-dene.html
(Chellow Dene) - could this be where the mIll was that Joseph worked? In the Bradford area, 8 miles or so from Halifax?
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/TRANSCRIPTIONS-UK/2001-01/0980011002
Interesting facts
Just my ideas though!
Cheers
AMBLY
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I know Dyson Lane pretty well. These Days it would be called Ripponden, not Soyland.
and I can't think of any place name like that around the area, even the itsby-bitsy ones...
The only thing I could think of was maybe the surname of the mill owner?
Pauline
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Hi Ambly and Pauline,
well that's a take that I never thought of at all.
Yes the enumerators spelling is worse than my own (thank goodness for spell checks) and he is prone to missing out the odd letter or three. He does dot most of the i's so I think the place name is cheley, perhaps a place lost when the Oldham road was built / widened.
I personally think the top line is in a different hand, the d at the end of the 'and' is totally different from other lower case d's on the page. The line may have been crossed out because of its lack of relevance.
I am dubious about the word 'pensioner' which has been suggested for the first word, on the grounds that he is only 45 and was a W. weaver living Netheroyd, Soyland in 1841 (anywhere near Kebroyd ?)
OK thanks very much I will now have a re-think
Dave
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With the note about apalling spelling I wondered if Cheley was "Shelley" but its 20 miles or so on the far side of Hudds...
Ref Nether Royd.
Nowhere is Soyland is going to be more than 2-3 miles from Kebroyd. Lots of small 'old roads over the tops'.
I'm always getting lost up there, and it's less than three miles from the house. Just go downhill until I meet the main road.
Pauline
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Just found Nether Royd on oldmaps.co.uk, its at the end of Ripponden Old Lane a stones throw from Dyson Lane. Lower Dyson Lane Mill was near where Dyson Lane crosses the Ryburn Beck. I've had a look around but nothing there in 1854 remotely like Cheley. I wonder now if Cheley could be some kind of process. The term 'wooling mill' is unusual and most instances of it refer to American mills
Dave
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Ambly,
I think the crossed out bit could read 'Halifax post Company but that makes the first letter of the line also a 'p' and I can find no references to Sergeant Majors in the Postal services ?
Pauline,
have you heard of a person called Cheelie or similar living in the area early 1800's ?
Dave
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Dave,
Not come across anything terribly similar that I recall.
cheetham, cherry, chew, chilvers...
Can't recall what the mill building by Slitheroe Bridge is called, but I'ts nothing like cheelie,
Bar Lane apparently had several small mills, but I don't know their names,nor how to find out.
Pauline
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I just came across my ancestor in 1851 Census mentioned as "Cheley Pencioner 1/2 Pay" of Abbeycwmhir, Radnorshire who in 1841 was "Army H.P.". I just found a "Cheley Bridge, Chelsea, cross the Wever River" which was in between both of our ancestors. I'm wondering if there's some truth to both our posts? Guess it could just be short for a Chelsea Pensioner being ex Army in general.
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Joseph was a Sgt Major his headstone inscription reads
MI's Old St Paul's King Cross Halifax
Sacred to the memory of Betty, the wife of Sergeant Major Joseph Bradley of King Cross, who departed this life 21st March 1857 aged 52 years / Also the above Sergeant Major Joseph Bradley who departed this life 9th April 1859 aged 68 years / Also of Benjamin Bradley son of the above who departed this life March 27th 1867 aged 20 years.
Various BMD and census information has him working in the woolen industry throughout the 40's and 50's so I believe he was a sgt major of a local militia - part timer.
The last word is perhaps a former or local word for a wool process. Notice how 'Wooling mill' is underlined by the enumerator - maybe a similar colloquialism.
Thanks for everyone's help.
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How about you read this the other way round, with lots of phonetic spelling:
He started writing:
Overlooker in a woollen mill.
Then decided to add something else...
Chelsea...
(but then ran out of room, no space below, so squeezed continuation in the space above but still in the right box)....
....pensioner and sergeant major in the Halifax Foot Guards?/Company?
Edited: line at the top is different because it was written to fit in to smaller space, so looks like a different hand
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PS I think that you could be a chelsea pensioner once retired from the army at whatever age, and you didn't wait to 60+
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A
lso the above Sergeant Major Joseph Bradley who departed this life 9th April 1859 aged 68 years
Are you sure about the age? He was 45 in the 1851 census and wife Elizabeth was 46 (52 in 1857 would be right for her). If the census is right, Joseph would only have been 53 in April 1859. The only Joseph Bradley death registered in Halifax in 1859 was aged 52 per the GRO index.
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I would also check the date of death, as the death appears to have been registered in the March quarter of 1859.
There is an army record for Sergeant Joseph Bradley, born Soyland, Halifax, served with 7th Foot 1826-1838. Aged 32 at time of discharge so born circa 1806.
He was in receipt of an army pension in Halifax at the time of his death on 25 January 1859.
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Image, available via Ancestry, for burial at St Paul, King Cross:
28 January 1859 - Joseph Bradley of King Cross aged 52.
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Joseph was born 4 Dec 1805 and bap Batley 5 Jan 1806. It seems that the age on the headstone is wrong but the date is right. I'll have to have another look at that.
Thanks guys
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Joseph was born 4 Dec 1805 and bap Batley 5 Jan 1806. It seems that the age on the headstone is wrong but the date is right. I'll have to have another look at that.
Thanks guys
BUT the Army Pension papers say he died 25 January 1859, and the burial register says he was buried 28 January 1859. :-\
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Sorry BumbleB you are correct - he died 25 Jan 1859 buried 29? Jan 1859. Where did you find the image? - ignore that I thought you meant a headstone image.
Thanks
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It's more than 10 years since you started this thread, Dave. Must be some sort of record!
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Ancestry.co.uk and under Parish, then West Yorkshire C of E Deaths and Burials 1813-1985. I just looked for Joseph Bradley, 1859. :)
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I thought I had put this one to bed then had a reply this morning which set me off again. Some much needed tidying up of my files now sorted. I have his date of birth, baptism, marriages, death and burial. He was enlisted in the 7th Royal Fusiliers perhaps on 2 occasions? they were in Halifax 1848 - 1850.
He worked as a weaver and perhaps an overlooker in a Wooling Mill [sic] There was a nearby place called Cheelham where there were fulling and woolen mills. I am happy to leave it at that unless you good people can come up with anything else .......
Thanks again
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I would suggest that either the transcription of the MI is incorrect or the person who ordered the headstone got the date of death wrong.
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Have you looked at genuki for Yorkshire - it's pretty comprehensive on place names, although I can't readily see Cheelham.
And there's the fount of Calderdale knowledge - Malcolm Bull.
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Re "Cheley" I'm with Dillybert's theory (Reply#11) that the sentence continues on the inserted line above. So not "Cheley" but Chelsy as in pensioner. He was definitely receiving a Chelsea out-pension.
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Yes I can go with Chelsea written on the line below and pensioner above ShaunJ.
BumbleB I don't think I need to go anywhere else with the dates. It looks as if there was a mis-transcription of the headstone or wrong wording on the headstone. Either way I have the correct dates now sourced by GRO and King Cross burial record.
Dave